Another point most persons don't take into account is the fact that the NBA now has more depth of talent than it ever had both in the 80's and 90's. So players now face tougher match ups(in terms of quality of talent) on a more consistent basis.
Lebron is IMO a top 10 player all time that's all i can give him, but i still recall the quality of oppositions MJ faced for his 6 championships, he was the favorite before every one of those finals.
Every time MJ faced a stacked team in his career they beat him from the Celtics to the Pistons
Personally I don't believe any team sport can have one concensus GOAT, for a position maybe e.g MJ is without doubt the greatest 2 guard of all time.

Tundesam923:
Lol @shannon. He's a goat now...but max? That guy is not in his right senses like at all. The way he hypes LeBron up? It's borderline insane! 8 points in an Nba final against the dirk and the Mavericks, not beat an aging core of Tim Duncan, Manu and Tony Parker in 2014 with 2 all stars. He argues in a vacuum so much...

Lmaooo if Max dey vex you then I'm not sure you would be able to stomach Nick Wright. Max agrees Jordan is the GOAT so I no really get problems with am. I dey always enjoy how Stephen A dey tackle am. When I enjoy Max's analysis na when he dey talk about boxing. He's a smart dude he knows what he is doing. Na him oversabi dey koba am sometimes

Khanben:
Another point most persons don't take into account is the fact that the NBA now has more depth of talent than it ever had both in the 80's and 90's. So players now face tougher match ups(in terms of quality of talent) on a more consistent basis.
Lebron is IMO a top 10 player all time that's all i can give him, but i still recall the quality of oppositions MJ faced for his 6 championships, he was the favorite before every one of those finals.
Every time MJ faced a stacked team in his career they beat him from the Celtics to the Pistons
Personally I don't believe any team sport can have one concensus GOAT, for a position maybe e.g MJ is without doubt the greatest 2 guard of all time.

When you say more depth of talent it depends. Do you mean top-tier talent or the usual cannon fodder that masquerade as talent and flatter to deceive when shyte hits the fan. In Jordan's era for example you had in the East the Knicks, Cavs, Magic, Pistons, Celtics, Heat, Pacers who were solid and could beat any team today. People throw the word talent very loosely but the old school guys were much better fundamentally than what we have now.

You have a legit argument that the GOAT was favorite in his Finals appearances but they were favorites because of him. Jordan was the dragon everyone was trying to slay and ultimately failed to do so at his peak.

No. The Pistons were stacked and were back to back NBA Champs when the GOAT swept them. The Celtics of course caught Jordan in his early years, Charles Oakley was his second best player FFS and they were nights he had to drop 63 just to get the game to overtime. In Jordan's peak you were not in doubt as to who the best player in the league was, even in the years he didn't win the MVP you knew it was mostly due to protest and sympathy votes for others

A40:
When you say more depth of talent it depends. Do you mean top-tier talent or the usual cannon fodder that masquerade as talent and flatter to deceive when shyte hits the fan. In Jordan's era for example you had in the East the Knicks, Cavs, Magic, Pistons, Celtics, Heat, Pacers who were solid and could beat any team today. People throw the word talent very loosely but the old school guys were much better fundamentally than what we have now.

You have a legit argument that the GOAT was favorite in his Finals appearances but they were favorites because of him. Jordan was the dragon everyone was trying to slay and ultimately failed to do so at his peak.

No. The Pistons were stacked and were back to back NBA Champs when the GOAT swept them. The Celtics of course caught Jordan in his early years, Charles Oakley was his second best player FFS and they were nights he had to drop 63 just to get the game to overtime. In Jordan's peak you were not in doubt as to who the best player in the league was, even in the years he didn't win the MVP you knew it was mostly due to protest and sympathy votes for others

The old school guys are better fundamentally please give me a break, there is no sport in the world where the players are fundamentally better years ago than now. In terms of ball handling and shooting alone your argument fails.
If a big like Karl Marlone for instance could shoot MJ will in all likelihood have lost at least one championship.

Khanben:



I have one problem with all this GOAT conversations, KAJ when he was still called Lewis Alcindor was the best player in the whole league as a rookie.
Why is it only wings who are touted as GOAT's, this is the same problem I have with football where only forward and midfielders get all the respect.

Lmaooooo this is what Joel Embiid was saying the other day. His GOAT was Wilt.

The one argument that sticks out like a sore thumb against KAJ is that he was not even the Undisputed best player on his team. If you think of the Showtime Lakers who comes to mind first Magic or Kareem? I actually have him somewhere between 2nd and 4th on my list based on sheer longevity

Mehn Zion has a big impact on Nike. I pray he signs for Under Armour.

Khanben:


The old school guys are better fundamentally please give me a break, there is no sport in the world where the players are fundamentally better years ago than now. In terms of ball handling and shooting alone your argument fails.
If a big like Karl Marlone for instance could shoot MJ will in all likelihood have lost at least one championship.

This is a very hilarious statement to make. I'm in stitches here.

Tell me any defender that can lace the boots of Beckenbauer, Baresi, Scirea and Gentile? Which boxer today is as technically sound as both Sugar Rays, De La Hoya etc.

Which defensive lineman is as sound as Lawrence Taylor. Which big in today's league is as sound as Tim Duncan, Kareem and Hakeem?

All the ball handlers you have today all modeled their game after the likes of Pistol Pete, Isaiah Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Magic etc. Shooting depending on your position (especially of the 3pt variety) is not a sign of fundamentals anything bro! It's an acquired fad backed by analytics. Any mugu can order his team to launch 50 threes a game. It proves nothing and can desert you at the most ill opportune moment just ask the Rockets

I will not even go into the level of defending and all. I challenge you to name one defender in today's game that could guard like Moncrief, Payton or the GOAT. Are you talking of this buttersoft era where you can't hand check? Do you think someone like James Harden will get any calls if he played back in the day?

Your argument on Malone is moot. Who knows how many rings Jordan could have won if he didn't retire at the peak of his powers in 93, or if Charles Oakley wasn't the second best player on his team in his early years

A40:
This is a very hilarious statement to make. I'm in stitches here.

Tell me any defender that can lace the boots of Beckenbauer, Baresi, Scirea and Gentile? Which boxer today is as technically sound as both Sugar Rays, De La Hoya etc.

Which defensive lineman is as sound as Lawrence Taylor. Which big in today's league is as sound as Tim Duncan, Kareem and Hakeem?

All the ball handlers you have today all modeled their game after the likes of Pistol Pete, Isaiah Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Magic etc. Shooting depending on your position (especially of the 3pt variety) is not a sign of fundamentals anything bro! It's an acquired fad backed by analytics. Any mugu can order his team to launch 50 threes a game. It proves nothing and can desert you at the most ill opportune moment just ask the Rockets

I will not even go into the level of defending and all. I challenge you to name one defender in today's game that could guard like Moncrief, Payton or the GOAT. Are you talking of this buttersoft era where you can't hand check? Do you think someone like James Harden will get any calls if he played back in the day?

Your argument on Malone is moot. Who knows how many rings Jordan could have won if he didn't retire at the peak of his powers in 93, or if Charles Oakley wasn't the second best player on his team in his early years

Defenders today actually have to guard people without touching them, imagine Kwahi, PG13, butler and co with the ability to touch up their opponents.
As for fundamentals, IMO they are taught and learned unlike natural talent. Players have better chance of getting access to the right coaches these days than say 20-40 years ago, so i stand by the fact that players in all sports might not be more talented than those of time past, but in terms of their fundamentals they are definitely better.
As for ball handlers you said modeled but forgot to add improved upon. The likes of kyrie, steph. Jamal Crawford have all improved on the works of previous masters

Khanben:


Defenders today actually have to guard people without touching them, imagine Kwahi, PG13, butler and co with the ability to touch up their opponents.
As for fundamentals, IMO they are taught and learned unlike natural talent. Players have better chance of getting access to the right coaches these days than say 20-40 years ago, so i stand by the fact that players in all sports might not be more talented than those of time past, but in terms of their fundamentals they are definitely better.
As for ball handlers you said modeled but forgot to add improved upon. The likes of kyrie, steph. Jamal Crawford have all improved on the works of previous masters

In the regular season yes, not in the post season where refs swallow their whistles. There is very little that tops sound fundamentals and no PG13, Kawhi were not as good as Payton or Moncrief

There are people that assimilate these fundamentals better than the others. Have you ever asked yourself why the most naturally gifted aren't always the best at their positions. More emphasis was made back then on fundamentals unlike now where the focus is on athleticism. That explains why a guy like Nikola Jokic was drafted in the second round

What are you even talking about? This is like saying developers today aided by IDEs are better than developers of yore that had to type and memorize codes and syntaxes. Hell to the no!

You will soon tell us that Major Lazer are more fundamentally sound than Quincy Jones, Primo or Teddy Riley because they work with more modern equipment.

Their handles are simply fancier and are more aesthetically appealing and if we're ranking all-time passers and players who turned it over the least in the league they won't make the list so who their handles epp?

Who drafts these useless and crazy a$$ laws? You mean a 77 year old widower cannot patronize olosho if he wants to. Smh

If the Pistons, Bulls, Magic, Hawks, Celtics, Hawks and Pacers from the 90's played in today's NBA with the 90's NBA rule, and today's players move to the '90s under the same rule, your guess is as good as mine how many will last past 3 seasons.

A basketball fanatic I met one time told me to go back and watch the games especially the playoff games MJ lost and marvel at his greatness. I did and my goodness, so many games that never got the notoriety because he lost them.

We have argued this topic numerous times since the history of this thread and it has lost steam for me and maybe that is why I will not write so much about it. Anyone interested can scroll back and read through.

A40:
Who drafts these useless and crazy a$$ laws? You mean a 77 year old widower cannot patronize olosho if he wants to. Smh

Robert Kraft is not going down and that is for sure.

Roland17:
If the Pistons, Bulls, Magic, Hawks, Celtics, Hawks and Pacers from the 90's played in today's NBA with the 90's NBA rule, and today's players move to the '90s under the same rule, your guess is as good as mine how many will last past 3 seasons.

A basketball fanatic I met one time told me to go back and watch the games especially the playoff games MJ lost and marvel at his greatness. I did and my goodness, so many games that never got the notoriety because he lost them.

We have argued this topic numerous times since the history of this thread and it has lost steam for me and maybe that is why I will not write so much about it. Anyone interested can scroll back and read through.

Lol, I am enjoying this. But please some of the guys debating the topic are new to the thread (or rather not here during the last debate), so please make you write much o . I love the arguments here and it is constructive as well. At least that guy wey fit abuse him parent no dey here again, every argument and discussion here makes a lot of sense, so please make una continue, we dey follow.

P.G for MVP...

Anyone with me??

aliondo:
P.G for MVP...

Anyone with me??

An attitude...

Tundesam923:
Lol @shannon. He's a goat now...but max? That guy is not in his right senses like at all. The way he hypes LeBron up? It's borderline insane! 8 points in an Nba final against the dirk and the Mavericks, not beat an aging core of Tim Duncan, Manu and Tony Parker in 2014 with 2 all stars. He argues in a vacuum so much...

Shannon is a clown but I love him, max I can bear with it despite his occasional verbal diarrhea. But you know who I can't tolerate? NICK WRIGHT ! HE'S PROBABLY THE DUMBEST, BIAS LEBTARD AND KD HATER OUT THERE. HE'S AN IDIOT

etidy:

Shannon is a clown but I love him, max I can bear with it despite his occasional verbal diarrhea. But you know who I can't tolerate? NICK WRIGHT ! HE'S PROBABLY THE DUMBEST, BIAS LEBTARD AND KD HATER OUT THERE. HE'S AN IDIOT

Seconded.

etidy:

Shannon is a clown but I love him, max I can bear with it despite his occasional verbal diarrhea. But you know who I can't tolerate? NICK WRIGHT ! HE'S PROBABLY THE DUMBEST, BIAS LEBTARD AND KD HATER OUT THERE. HE'S AN IDIOT

Come on Nick sometimes get some things right too.

[quote author=Tundesam923 post=75910587][/quote]Thats one of the most stupid things I have ever heard from a sport analysts. Someone getting paid to go on national Tv. If that was the case, Wondering why Lebron and Kyrie couldn’t win 2017 finals.

My mvp for sure

Decale:



An attitude...

A40:
I fear for Shannon especially. Lol those guys nauseate me for real

I can’t stand that foool. Nick Wright is actually worst, but you don’t know cod he talks and looks like an intelligent Person.

“I think it’s wonderful what we’re seeing in the league right now, some of the rules changes we’ve made in the last few years that really focus on skill-based playing. I’d like to think that young people around the world are able to look at this game and say, I can be as great as my desire to dedicate myself to this game, especially when it comes to shooting and ball handling. I get it, you can’t dream about being seven feet tall, but you can dream about having ball-handling skills like Steph Curry.” ---Adam Silver.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/marcus-smart-today-nba-everything-003030990.html

What more is there to say? The entire quote, particularly the embolden says it all. We are having ballon scores by half time with teams approaching the summer league with a tanking mentality, while superstars are drafting their own all-star team with lists of where they want to be traded and where they don't want to play.

Below is Marcus Smart's thoughts about today's NBA and it supports the quote by the NBA commissioner.

“That’s just what it is! Exactly!” he says, a smile breaking through. “I think we kind of lost that in today’s game. Everything’s become real cute. Everybody’s scared to go to the rim. Everybody’s scared to get hit. Everybody’s scared to touch. “I thrive on the contact. Contact is in my nature.”
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/marcus-smart-today-nba-everything-003030990.html

Only a handful of current NBA superstars will survive 2-3 seasons in the 80's and 90's, it is not an insult, it is the truth. I was watching the OKC v Utah game when Westbrook was adjudged a flagrant 1 foul for a foul that is at most a common foul because the contact, which was minimal was above Gobert's head, not necessarily because it was even a hard foul. It made Reggie Miller upset and he was quite vocal about it.

This is the same league folks are telling me is better and better skilled than the '80s & '90s? If you can not horn your skill when there is absolutely no contact in the game then you have no business playing modern basketball. There is no excuse. Worth more in the '80s and 90's when contact, hand checks were legal, yet these guys have better fundamentals and technique than the modern players.

Jordan in his prime with the current NBA rules will sodomize the current NBA, it's not a joke or insult, it is a fact.

I no write again abeg.

Sodomize? Rotfl. He really would!!! . Jordan would massacre this nba era. Practically a demi god. Stephen a made a good point on if LeBron would be this great(I still think he's a wee bit overrated) if he played against Michael Jordan with that weak mentality

And on this Antonio brown issue, big Ben has no blame? At all? Going on the radio and critizing AB on the radio. I think ab has a point on big Ben having an "ownership mentality"

[quote author=ipledge10 post=76036044]Thats one of the most stupid things I have ever heard from a sport analysts. Someone getting paid to go on national Tv. If that was the case, Wondering why Lebron and Kyrie couldn’t win 2017 finals. [exactly!!! And let's not pretend as if Kevin love is not an all star.and they still talk about him being 2 in 1; 2 mvp caliber players equal to a LeBron. Max Should have not a job with ESPN first take!

YES OOO!

Pointguardusa:
Mehn Zion has a big impact on Nike. I pray he signs for Under Armour.

Kanter looking like a fantastic pickup for the Blazers

Tundesam923:
And on this Antonio brown issue, big Ben has no blame? At all? Going on the radio and critizing AB on the radio. I think ab has a point on big Ben having an "ownership mentality"

Abeg forget Antonio Brown. The guy is a narcissist! I won't absolve Ben but the criticism is still strictly football based.

This guy has attacked journalists, thrown tantrums during games. Skipped team meetings early in the season (Week 3), quit on his team and showed up in week 17 in a mink coat. Jealous JuJu Smith Schuster won team MVP

The Steelers will never win a Superbowl if they don't release this cancer. He is purely about his stats and is not a team player. His recent social media antics prove that

'Mr Big Chest'

"A complete bozo" like Tony Kornheiser would say

These Lakers are a weird bunch. The games you earmarked they would lose they win, the one you earmarked they would win they lose. I dare say the Pelicans would have been in the playoffs race had they traded Davis

They no

A40:
These Lakers are a weird bunch. The games you earmarked they would lose they win, the one you earmarked they would win they lose. I dare say the Pelicans would have been in the playoffs race had they traded Davis

They not making playoffs if Lonzo doesn’t come back.

Diangelo Russel.

Magic Johnson how market?

Fareed and rivers na serious addition to this rockets team.
I thought this was a sure loss for them without harden but Cp3 was on another level.

The kings might just get into the playoffs ahead of the Lakers that was a good win over the thunders