cornelboy:
Just like Pharaoh king of Egypt gave Joseph authority to rule Egypt, is the same way God, the Father gave authority to his son Jesus.

Mat 28:18 NIV
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Gen 41:39-44 (Joseph/Pharaoh story)

Does Jesus having all the authority in heaven and on earth mean he has same authority with God?
Study Paul's inspired words carefully in the scripture below;

1 Cor 15 NIV
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Pharaoh was greater than Joseph the same way God is greater than Jesus.

Is Jesus same as God?
Is Jesus equal to God?
Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural?

The answer is capital NO!

Versitee:

cornelboy:
...
Is Jesus same as God?
Is Jesus equal to God?
Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural?...]

StillDtruth:


This is a misleading formulation especially as you are not paying attention, to the word "our God" which is very specific throughout the First Testaments.

Thus, it is misleading to formulate the question "is Jesus equal to God?" When the bible clearly shows that He is God's Son Who sits at the Right Hand of God.

So, really if you truly wanted to appreciate the Trinitarian views, you can see what they mean.

And this is why half truths are very very dangerous especially as this view comes from Catholics who are devils themselves who know and used the wicked power of half truth and have therefore created this unprofitable argument and division

Zaheertyler:

So Joseph having the same authority as Christ is real doctrine?
Okay oo
Everybody get freedom of speech

Kobojunkie:
Nonsense!🙄🙄🙄🙄

Zaheertyler:
So Joseph having the same authority as Christ is real doctrine?
Okay oo
Everybody get freedom of speech

cornelboy:

Your post makes almost no sense to me especially the third paragraph

cornelboy:
Just like Pharaoh king of Egypt gave Joseph authority to rule Egypt, is the same way God, the Father gave authority to his son Jesus.

Mat 28:18 NIV
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Gen 41:39-44 (Joseph/Pharaoh story)

Does Jesus having all the authority in heaven and on earth mean he has same authority with God?
Study Paul's inspired words carefully in the scripture below;

1 Cor 15 NIV
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Pharaoh was greater than Joseph the same way God is greater than Jesus.

Is Jesus same as God?
Is Jesus equal to God?
Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural?

The answer is capital NO!

immaculatesense:

1. Is Jesus same as God?
2. Is Jesus equal to God?

MaxInDHouse:


Religions brainwashing!

Jesus is not the same as God neither is he equal to God, those are false religious doctrines!

immaculatesense:

Explain the difference between these two verses of the same origin and meaning, but different in just one word.
Psalm 8:5 and Hebrews 2:7
Psalms 8:5
[5]Yet you made them only a little lower than God (elohim)
    and crowned them with glory and honor.
Hebrews 2:7
[7]Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels (angelos)
    and crowned them with glory and honor.

MaxInDHouse:


Both are saying the same thing.

Angels are spirit creatures so they are closely related to God who is also a spirit than humans!

immaculatesense:

Maxim. Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus before he was born? I mean do you believe that he has been in existence before his birth or that his life began at his birth?
If you do, in which I know you do. Why don't you then agree with me that Jesus is god (elohim, deity, and divine) from the standpoint that the word 'elohim' is use for divinity, but he is not the Father- the supreme god over all other god and that only the Father is superior to him and Jesus is in turn superior to all other creature in heaven and on earth.

StillDtruth:


This is a misleading formulation especially as you are not paying attention, to the word "our God" which is very specific throughout the First Testaments.

Thus, it is misleading to formulate the question "is Jesus equal to God?" When the bible clearly shows that He is God's Son Who sits at the Right Hand of God.

So, really if you truly wanted to appreciate the Trinitarian views, you can see what they mean.

And this is why half truths are very very dangerous especially as this view comes from Catholics who are devils themselves who know and used the wicked power of half truth and have therefore created this unprofitable argument and division

cornelboy:

Your post makes almost no sense to me especially the third paragraph

cornelboy:

Just a comparison.
Read well

MaxInDHouse:


That makes all angels gods too.

Do you agree?

immaculatesense:

Sir, I respect your view and I have the same view too. But let me help you to create a balance. Your view is correct but not complete. Let me answer or rephrase your thoughts one after another.
1. Is Jesus same as God? The answer is YES. But is Jesus same as the Father? The answer is NO. I will clarify this in my last paragraph.
2. Is Jesus equal to God? The answer is YES. But is Jesus equal to the Father? The answer is NO. He was only equal 'with' not 'to' the Father. I will also clarify this in my last paragraph.
3. Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural? The answer is YES. But has the Trinity doctrine been rightly taught the way the scriptures viewed it by most denomination? The answer is NO.

MY LAST PARAGRAPH
The word 'god'-'elohim' (note that there is not capital letters in Hebrew and Greek) is a plural word that is used for anyone divine or special. Angels were known as 'god' in the biblical period. Study the story of Jacob wrestling with god (angel) Genesis 32:30. Remember Manoah and his wife saw an angel and the said they saw 'god'- Judges 13:22. There are numerous examples of angels been regarded as God all across the scriptures but those two examples are clear enough for that.
Men were also called god. Remember that even the Father through his angel called Moses god (elohim) unto pharaoh and Aaron his prophet- Exodus 7:1. Abraham was called 'god' (elohim) by the Canaanites, even though some versions changed it to 'mighty' and some 'prince' but the original Hebrew word was 'elohim.'- Genesis 23:6. In Psalms the writer clearly stated that 'elohim sits on his throne in the heavenly court and judges among the elohim- Psalm 82:1.
Jesus is god (elohim-) because he is divine/deity but he is not the Father- the one and only god who alone is above all. Jesus is below him but superior to all other god.
In the true Bible teaching of the Trinity, just like the word Bible is not in the scriptures, the word Trinity is not in the scriptures but the Father who alone is supreme and above all sent his son Jesus on a salvation mission (John 3:16-18) and after fulfilling the mission the Father through Jesus sent the holy spirit to guide and lead men into all truth (John 16:13-15). These three, united in purpose but distinct in authority as the Father is above the son and the son is above the spirit play their roles in the salvation of mankind. This is how the Trinity should be taught and not to make the three equal in authority as that is not true, but they are one and united in purpose.
Jesus is not equal to the Father. That should not even be a debate at all. Jesus himself declared severally that "My Father is greater than I am." And severally he always makes it known that he is subject to the Father's will and that the Father is his God- John 20:17. The son came from the Father but the Father came from no one. The son is god (deity/divine/worthy of worship) but the Father is god over all (deity/divine/worthy of worship).
Thanks you so much. I hope you will just include this in your view which is correct but not complete. Peace.

immaculatesense:

Yes, I do, since they are 'divine' that makes them 'god' (elohim). According to Psalm 82:1
‭Psalms 82:1 NIV‬
[1] God (elohim-) presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods” (elohim):

I interprete this passage as "the Father (elohim) god presides in the great assembly, he renders judgement among the angels (refer to by the psalmist as gods (elohim) just like in Psalms 8:5. I believe this is somehow relatable with Job 1:6 and Job 2:1. I believe in both passages, the scriptures refers to the heavenly assembly or court as an assembly of angels or heavenly beings who have been sent by the Father to lead and guide the affairs of men. They give report and account to the Father on how they manage the affairs of men. I think along the line, the issue of idolatry has it stem from men's encounters with this heavenly beings overtime. So, yes. Angels were referred to across scriptures as 'elohim' which means god.

immaculatesense:

Yes, I do, since they are 'divine' that makes them 'god' (elohim). According to Psalm 82:1
‭Psalms 82:1 NIV‬
[1] God (elohim-) presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods” (elohim):

I interprete this passage as "the Father (elohim) god presides in the great assembly, he renders judgement among the angels (refer to by the psalmist as gods (elohim) just like in Psalms 8:5. I believe this is somehow relatable with Job 1:6 and Job 2:1. I believe in both passages, the scriptures refers to the heavenly assembly or court as an assembly of angels or heavenly beings who have been sent by the Father to lead and guide the affairs of men. They give report and account to the Father on how they manage the affairs of men. I think along the line, the issue of idolatry has it stem from men's encounters with this heavenly beings overtime. So, yes. Angels were referred to across scriptures as 'elohim' which means god.

gohf:

Your number 1 & 2 is suggesting that the Father and God are not the same person, but two different persons. Is that what you believe?

Your "last paragraph" reminds me of my post in https://www.nairaland.com/8337768/term-elohim

About the elohim, and I understand your response is saying Jesus is an elohim, but when we understand scripture we realize that angels are mainly called messengers so as to different them from those beings trying to play God and deceive men. So to say Jesus is not the Elohim but an elohim is associate him with the other references which were related to false gods that God will judge.

immaculatesense:

Good. You are correct sir. I believe you have at least some knowledge of Hebrew language. The Hebrew word-'elohim' means god, divine, deity, or supernatural. They use the same word for angels as in the case of Jacob who said he fought against god (elohim-) and prevail but we know that he fought not against the Father but angel, as no man can fight against the Father and win. Also in the case of Manoah and his wife, they saw an angel and they said they would die because they have seen god, but we know that wat they saw was an angel and not the Father.
Maxim. Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus before he was born? I mean do you believe that he has been in existence before his birth or that his life began at his birth?
If you do, in which I know you do. Why don't you then agree with me that Jesus is god (elohim, deity, and divine) from the standpoint that the word 'elohim' is use for divinity, but he is not the Father- the supreme god over all other god and that only the Father is superior to him and Jesus is in turn superior to all other creature in heaven and on earth.

immaculatesense:

I respect your view sir. In my explanation I have proven three things. (1) The word 'elohim' god was a general word for 'divinity' at the time. You can agree with me on the basis of Jacob and Manoah that I quoted. (2) I showed from scriptures that Jesus was divine even before his birth and has been with the Father even before the foundation of the word- John 17:5. He is god (elohim/divine/deity). (3) That the Father is supreme and superior to the son- Jesus. That Jesus himself showed that he is subject to the Father in all things. He called the Father his God and derived his authority from his father- John 20:17.
Conclusion: Jesus is god and above all, except the Father who is above Jesus and above all.- I Corinthians 15:27-28
That is the position of the scriptures. I am Pentecostal and I am loyal to the scriptures and not denomination.

MaxInDHouse:


Religions brainwashing!

Jesus is not the same as God neither is he equal to God, those are false religious doctrines!

gohf:
el also means strength or leader, it doesn't make every strong leader a god but they may claim to be in the eyes of people. Psalm 82 isn't the acknowledge of gods which the Torah rejects, but with correct interpretation and understanding we see that these were self elevated beings who were going to be brought low like Lucifer.

Angels were only one time or two referred to as elohim, and usually with the term benelohim to show their submission to the one true Elohim. We see in the book of revelation that they refer to themselves as servants of Elohim and not elohim.

gohf:


That's why I wrote on that thread the term and usage of Elohim needs to be properly understood.

When you say 1. The elohim was a general Hebrew term to reference divinity we also need to understand it was used to specifically teach that there is only one true Divine while the rest were false.

And we know that some of God's sons fell and started playing God on the earth. Now we have to consider that the very first commandment and decree from God is to denounce any other God. You shall have no other god/elohim besides me. Of which is became blasphemy and idolatry to consider anyone or anything God or Divine asides from God Almighty YHVH.

There also no where in scripture where God ascribes divinity to His word, either directly nor through His prophets. Nor does He in anyway suggest that His word is God even when He promises to send the Messiah.

Jesus is king anointed by God and made so by God, he was never anointed nor appointed a god nor a divine

immaculatesense:

Smile. I respect your taught but you need to broading your view. I don't hold a doctrinal point of any church, I stand on the scriptures even if it opposes the standpoint of my church. I am loyal to the scriptures and not to denomination because of you are loyal to a denomination, your view will be influenced and you will not be objective in your view. My close associates are jw and they know me, I respect their view but when I talk they know I speak to issues objectively. You AV read my comments before some years back, I just stayed away for personal development.
Maxim, let me ask you a simple question that will confuse you.
Explain the difference between these two verses of the same origin and meaning, but different in just one word.
Psalm 8:5 and Hebrews 2:7
Psalms 8:5
[5]Yet you made them only a little lower than God (elohim)
    and crowned them with glory and honor.

Hebrews 2:7
[7]Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels (angelos)
    and crowned them with glory and honor.

You know I don't like back and forth, tell me why the psalmist used (god)- elohim-, and the writer of Hebrews while making reference to the psalmist changed it to (angels)- angelos. Does it mean that the psalmist and the writer of Hebrews viewed angels as 'elohim' (god) or the writer of Hebrews was trying to correct the psalmist? I will go with the first. Let's hear ur own view on this two same but distinct verses.

gohf:

I don't think we should be taking Jacobs account as a consideration of one who actually saw the face of God, infact that angel is said to be called Peniel, face of God doesn't mean the angel is God's face does it?

No man has seen God because there is only one God to see, even Moses's face was covered when God descended with only his back visible.

This term divinity should only be understood as the holiness of God and not like a chieftaincy title that is acquired. Other religions claims diverse forms of divinity thereby diverse gods, but there is only one God therefore His holiness set apart from the rest which are false gods.