[size=14pt]Muhammad only Waged War in Self-Defense[/size]

The Truth:

The myth that warfare is only justified in Islam under the condition of self-defense is disproved by the account of the Battle of Badr, in which Muhammad sent his men out to raid caravans, then deliberately provoked a battle with the Meccan army sent out to defend them.  The case for aggressive warfare is also supported by the fate of the three Jewish tribes of Medina, who were cleansed because they had rejected Muhammad’s claims of prophethood (and because the Muslims wanted their possessions).

Consider the fate of the Banu Mustaliq, an Arab tribe:

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

Although there are many reliable accounts from the Hadith and Sira that mention the Mustaliq grazing cattle, not one mentions Muhammad making any effort at peacemaking.  In this case, Muhammad's men violated the women (with his approval) after slaughtering the men (Sahih Muslim 3371).  What does Desecrating a female captive have to do with self-defense?

In many situations, Muhammad waged war for the purpose of revenge, such as the attack on the Lihyan, in which the people were clearly not prepared for war and saved themselves only by fleeing into the hills (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 718).  Muhammad also attacked the people of Taif as soon as he had the opportunity to avenge their rejection of him (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 280 & 872).

Also disproving the myth that Muhammad only fought in self-defense is the account of his first attack on the Christians.  There was no compelling reason for him to send an army to Muta (in Syria, where they met with disaster at the hands of the Byzantines).  Had this been a matter of self-defense, then the enemy would surely have followed the routed army back to Arabia, but this was not the case (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 791).

Near the end of his life, the prophet of Islam directed military campaigns for the mere purpose of spreading Islamic rule. He knew that some cities would resist and others would not. He left instructions to his people for dealing with each case:

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If you come to a township (which has surrendered without a formal war) and stay therein, you have a share (that will be in the form of an award) in (the properties obtained from) it.  If a township disobeys Allah and His Messenger (and actually fights against the Muslims) one-fifth of the booty seized therefrom is for Allah and His Apostle and the rest is for you. (Sahih Muslim 4346)

As can be seen, those who were not at war with the Muslims are to be subjugated anyway, and their property seized.  The only distinguishing factor is the extent of Muslim entitlement following the victory.

Military campaigns to extend Islamic domination include the raid on Tabuk, which was a second incursion into the Christian territory of Syria, in which Muhammad forced the local populace to pay him tribute after ambushing and killing local civilians to assert his authority (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 903).  Another example would be the[b] “convert or die”[/b] mandate given to an Arab tribe, the Banu al-Harith:

Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying,[b] “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” [/b]So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959)

Obviously self-defense was not a factor in any of these cases (even though some Muslims are prone to embellish the record with imaginary details not found therein).  As with the capture of Mecca in 630, these early Muslims had clear military superiority and the target of their aggression was in no position to defend itself.

In fact, the first part of the 9th Sura, the most bellicose chapter of the Qur’an, was revealed shortly after the Muslims had established military dominance in Mecca.  Consider one of the more violent verses:

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them (9:5)

The words, “when the forbidden months are past,” precludes the possibility that this was a matter of self-defense.  The Muslims had already been given the divine right to fight during the sacred months, and it is simply implausible that they would have suffered attacks over a four month period without defending themselves.
That they were not under attack is consistent with the historical context, in which the Haj period was a traditional time of peace and tolerance throughout Arabia.

Although not under attack from the pagans, Muhammad ordered his men to chase and kill the unbelievers following the Haj.  The pagans who agreed to become Muslim (ie. practice the pillars of Islam, zakat and salat) would be allowed to live following their conversion.  Verse 9:29 offers a separate rule for Jews and Christians, allowing them to keep their religion as long as they pay protection money to Muslims and acknowledge the inferiority of their faith.  Should they resist, then they should be killed.

One of the best documented examples of Muslim aggression during the lifetime of Muhammad is the attack on the peaceful community of Khaybar.  This followed the treaty of Hudaibiya between the Muslims and Meccans, which called for a period of peace between the two groups.  The treaty was controversial with Muslims, not only because it contradicted Allah’s prior mandate to “drive out” the Meccans with violent force (2:191), but also because Muhammad agreed not to be recognized as a prophet in the document (Muslim 4401).

Muhammad decided that it was prudent to attack the Jews at Khaybar in order to regain the trust of his people and placate their grumbling with military victory and (especially) the stolen wealth that followed.  This is embarrassing to modern-day Muslim apologists, who try to justify the siege by imagining that the sleepy farming community, located about 100 miles outside of Medina, posed some sort of necessary threat.

Unfortunately for contemporary apologists, not only is there no supporting evidence that the Muslims were under attack by the Khaybar, there are at least three historical references that flatly contradict any notion of self-defense on the part of Muhammad.  The first is a description of the initial attack by Ibn Ishaq/Hisham:

We met the workers of Khaybar coming out in the morning with their spades and baskets.  When they saw the apostle and the army they cried, “Muhammad with his force,” and turned tail and fled… The apostle seized the property piece by piece… (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

The people of Khaybar were not attacking Muhammad.  They were farming their land with shovels and buckets, not even knowing that they were supposed to be at war.  This is further confirmed in the same text:

When the apostle raided a people he waited until the morning.  If he heard a call to prayer he held back; if he did not hear it he attacked. We came to Khaybar by night, and the apostle passed the night there; and when morning came he did not hear the call to prayer, so he rode and we rode with him. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 757)

Muhammad attacked only after waiting to see if the people of Khaybar issued a morning call to prayer. This would have no possible relevance had they already been at war with him.

Perhaps the best proof that Muhammad was not acting in self-defense is the fact that his own people did not understand why they were marching to war.  His son-in-law, who was in charge of the military expedition, had to ask for justification:

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?”  Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)

The question Ali posed would have been unnecessary had the Muslims been under attack by the Khaybar or if the answer to the question were obvious.  As it is, Muhammad’s reply underscores the ostensible purpose of the campaign, which was to force the Jews into acknowledging the superiority of Islam.

Muhammad’s men easily captured Khaybar and divided up the loot.  The prophet of Islam tortured the community’s treasurer to extract information, then had him killed (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764).  Muhammad then took the man’s widow, Saffiya, as his wife after trading two other captured women to one of his lieutenants (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 758).  The surviving Jews were allowed to stay on their land provided that they gave their Muslim masters an ample share of their crops.

Therefore, the rule of aggression in Islam, from the example set by Muhammad, is that it is proportional to the power held by Muslims, and not the persecution that they are under.  The rare verses of peace in the Qur'an were "revealed" in Mecca, when true oppression existed (in some cases).  The verses of violence that are revealed later correspond to Muslim military might even as any persecution of Muslims had largely dried up.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-self-defense.htm

HOLY QURAN 5:32:
whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.

HOLY QURAN 2:190:
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

HOLY QURAN 7:55:
(O mankind!) Call upon your Lord humbly and in secret. Lo! He loveth not aggressors.

HOLY QURAN 8:61:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things)."

HOLY QURAN 5:2:
" , and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear Allah: for Allah is strict in punishment."

HOLY QURAN 41:34:
"Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!"

HOLY QURAN 4:135:
"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do."

HOLY QURAN 16:90
"God advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take heed."

HOLY QURAN 16:126:
"And if ye do punish them, punish them no worse than they punished you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient."

HOLY QURAN 21:107:
"And we have not sent you but as a mercy for the world"

[size=18pt]Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"? [/size]
By Huda, About.com Guide

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?
Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.
There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.


"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First
For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter,  But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful,  If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).
It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.


"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties
A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.
This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them,  (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them,  for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."


Conclusion
Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.
The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-:
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/f/terrorism_verse.htm

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys (in Midian). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Judges 21:10-12
10So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

1 Samuel 6:19
And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: [/b]and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

[b]Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Psalms 137:8-9
O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

Revelation 2:22-23
"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

Deuteronomy 17:2-5
If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die.

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

U will never cease to lie, did the Meccans fought against Muhammed first? They were to settle thing in peace with Muhammed, they even negotiated with him thrught his Uncle, but Muhammed refused. He fought them and that was the outcome of the Meccans sending them away and treaten they shouldnt tempered with thier temple the(kaaba). The verse was for the Meccans.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter,  But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful,  If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193). this is the verse that gave order to overshad the Meccans and take total possession of thier temple.

Allah is Akbar.

Who is maligned the most, but Muhammad [as] as the enemies of Allah swoop to tear fruitlessly into the fiber of true faith.

"And bring them before me to slaughter" just because they do not want me to reign over them, though I am not a king with any ruling capability or kingdom or throne.

Conclusion Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an

This lagosshia guy is a work of art. He quotes from a website about Islam that concludes the above and in return quotes a bunch of verses from the Bible (which he always has ready by the way) out of context and posts them trying to score cheap points.

Amazing! The depths you will sink just to portray your Islam in a good light. You guys work round the clock to do this but the odds are always against you.

proo212:

This lagosshia guy is a work of art. He quotes from a website about Islam that concludes the above and in return quotes a bunch of verses from the Bible (which he always has ready by the way) out of context and posts them trying to score cheap points.

Amazing! The depths you will sink just to portray your Islam in a good light. You guys work round the clock to do this but the odds are always against you.

This is because of despiration. Always wants to prove/make a point.

Muslims for you dear!

let me respond to the issue of battle of badr as in regard to self defense.

a little boy who was bullied in the school play yard may one day grow up and summon the courage to stand up to and fight the bully.

if he defeats the bully in the fight, can we say that he is unjust and he is the bully, forgetting the many times he was waylaid, harassed and forced to cough up the lunch money, throughout primary school years and ending in his final year in high school when he is now grown, even bigger and stronger than the bully now defeated and deflated?

if this young man was tired and sick of running away, he may just have summoned up courage to stand his ground, mounting opposition because he remembered how many a lunch money he had lost through the years. who will blame the reluctant fighter for standing up to fight and God supporting him to victory?

the arrogant bully might have thought he will over run the always scared and harassed youth, forgetting that it is the egg that is hatched that will grow up to become a roaster. it is the lion cub that will grow up to become a lion king. [the pagans in Makka were so sure of themselves that they took what they have gained of the properties they forced the muslims to leave behind in Makka to acquire wealth and decided to take the laden caravan back to Makka using the route close to Madina, instead of others that were far away.

@Proo212: if a an does take your money from you and bought a car with it and brought the car to your street, par it next to your house and yelled out your name to come and see what he has done with your money. if you have your friends around you this time, will you not at least mount an effort with the support of your friends to get justice by taking away the key of the car and call the police that a thief is right there, and e must be arrested? we call something like that citizen arrest.

@plappville: will you let somebody who conned you out of money walk free now that you are bold and can ask for your right, what belongs to you?

What Allah did for Muhammad [sa], if Yahweh had done nearly that, supporting biblical Jesus, he would not have been killed [according to your belief] by jews and romans. Allah gives Victory as He wills, honoring or testing believers.

What are the expert in Islamic Jurisprudence saying?

Hear them:

"The Jurisprudence of the Biography" by al-Buti (7th ed.) published by the Azhar in Egypt

"The concept of Holy War in Islam does not take into consideration whether (the war is) a defensive or an offensive war. Its goal is the exaltation of the Word of God and the construction of Islamic society and the establishment of God’s Kingdom on Earth regardless of the means. The means would be offensive warfare. In this case it is the apex, the most noble Holy War. It is legal to carry on a Holy War."


"The Book of the Islamic State" by Taqiy al-Din al-Nabahan, 1953, pages 112-117

"The foreign policy of Islamic states must be to carry the Islamic mission to the world by way of holy war. This process has been established through the course of the ages from the time the apostle settled down until the end of the last Islamic state which was ruled by Islamic law. This process has never been changed at all. The apostle Muhammad, from the time he founded the state in the city Yathrib, prepared an army and began holy war to remove the physical barriers which hinder the spread of Islam.He subdued the tribe of Quraysh as a body, along with other similar groups until Islam prevailed all over the Arabian peninsula. Then the Islamic state started to knock at the doors of other states to spread Islam. Whenever it found that the nature of the existing system in these states was a barrier which prevented the spread of the mission, they saw it as inevitable that the system be removed. So holy war continued as a means of spreading Islam. Thus by holy war, countries and regions were conquered. By holy war, kingdoms and states were removed and Islam ruled the nations and peoples.The glorious Qur’an has revealed to Muslims the reasons for fighting and the ordinance of holy war and it declares that it is to carry the message of Islam to the entire world. There are several verses which command the Muslims to fight for the cause of Islam. Therefore, carrying the Islamic mission is the basis on which the Islamic state was established, the Islamic army was founded, and holy war was ordained. All the conquests were achieved accordingly. Fulfilling the Islamic mission will restore the Islamic state to the Muslims.If holy war is the established, unchangeable means of spreading Islam, then political activities become a necessity before initiating the fight. If we besiege the infidels, we would call them to embrace Islam first. If they accept Islam, they become part of the Islamic community, but if they reject Islam, they have to pay the poll-tax. If they pay it, they spare their blood and properties, but if they refuse to pay the poll-tax, then fighting them becomes lawful."

"The Rightly Guided Caliphs" by Dr. Abu Zayd Shalabi, pages 66-67

"The thing which compelled Abu Bakr to invade Persia and the Byzantine Empire was not to seize their abundance, but rather to spread Islam. This claim is based on evidence that the generals of the Islamic armies used to call the countries to embrace Islam before they started fighting them. Khalid Ibn al-Walid sent a message to the princes of Persia saying:"After all, accept Islam and you will be safe, or pay the tribute; otherwise I will come to you with a people who desire death as you desire drinking wine."

@dexmond: in Islam of Muhammad [sa], the only human being you can not disagree with is Muhammad [sa].
this means the only human that can not be wrong is Muhammad [sa] when it comes to spirituality and morality.

so the 'experts' you have quoted, are just experts. people can reject or ignore or disagree with their statements, except when it grounded in what Muhammad [sa] brought, the Quran and or his pattern of behavior based on it and or his saying [what he says agrees with the Quran].

^^^^

You are denying your scholars who spent most of their lives studying Islam. I may well advise you to stop listening to your all your Alfas because if they study hard like those I quoted above, they will surely end up telling you the same. The main point is that Islam teaches and encourages violence, you can not pick what to believe as allah will not accept anything but total submission from you. What are you going to teach your kids, love or hate?

Ignorant crusaders

Get behind me...

Sweetnecta: @dexmond: in Islam of Muhammad [sa], the only human being you can not disagree with is Muhammad [sa].
this means the only human that can not be wrong is Muhammad [sa] when it comes to spirituality and morality.

so the 'experts' you have quoted, are just experts. people can reject or ignore or disagree with their statements, except when it grounded in what Muhammad [sa] brought, the Quran and or his pattern of behavior based on it and or his saying [what he says
agrees with the Quran].

So Mohammed was that perfect man? Yet He would ask The one who pen down His visions to modify them? How perfect was that?

dexmond: ^^^^

You are denying your scholars who spent most of their lives studying Islam. I may well advise you to stop listening to your all your Alfas because if they study hard like those I quoted above, they will surely end up telling you the same. The main point is that Islam teaches and encourages violence, you can not pick what to believe as allah will not accept anything but total submission from you. What are you going to teach your kids, love or hate?

They call it "Holy war" hahaha...allah truely like blood
My broda thank you, there are the true color of Islam.
Even if some try to pretend, the book has all evidence of the above writeup.

tintingz: Ignorant crusaders

Get behind me...

You can say that again....!!!
@sweetnecta, ma broda in Adam&Eve, how u dey na?
So You know better than those Islam Experts?
You dont trust them and yet trust Mohammed who was illitrate, who has no ideal of what is been penned down for Him?

i will trust an illetrate Prophet...this shows a very great miracle, converting many people with his message today

rather than trusting an apostle that contradict also oppossed the people who knew the message more than him and love drinking hard

Sweetnecta: @dexmond: in Islam of Muhammad [sa], the only human being you can not disagree with is Muhammad [sa].
this means the only human that can not be wrong is Muhammad [sa] when it comes to spirituality and morality.

so the 'experts' you have quoted, are just experts. people can reject or ignore or disagree with their statements, except when it grounded in what Muhammad [sa] brought, the Quran and or his pattern of behavior based on it and or his saying [what he says agrees with the Quran].

@Sweetnecta, I hereby present this saying by Allah's apostle. What do you think of it?

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 546:
Narrated Anas:

When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things which nobody knows except a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle" Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said, "The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah." 'Abdullah bin Salam further said, "O Allah's Apostle! The Jews are liars, and if they should come to know about my conversion to Islam before you ask them (about me), they would tell a lie about me." The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and 'Abdullah went inside the house. Allah's Apostle asked (the Jews), "What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam amongst you?" They replied, "He is the most learned person amongst us, and the best amongst us, and the son of the best amongst us." Allah's Apostle said, "What do you think if he embraces Islam (will you do as he does)?" The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him.

@dexmond;

by dexmond: 5:50pm On Dec 17
^^^^

You are denying your scholars who spent most of their lives studying Islam. I may well advise you to stop listening to your all your Alfas because if they study hard like those I quoted above, they will surely end up telling you the same. The main point is that Islam teaches and encourages violence, you can not pick what to believe as allah will not accept anything but total submission from you. What are you going to teach your kids, love or hate?

i think that you should know that people on total submission will differ, sometimes and on something. when you differ, to know the truth you God back to Allah [His Word is the Quran] and His Prophet [sa] [His Hadith [what is truly hadith], his sunnah [what is really is action]]. So if you have a Ph. D. in Islam, you can never qualify in Islam better than Muhammad [sa] walking, talking, living, breathing Quran. What do you think Islam is except what Muhammad [sa] was given. I follow a believer when he follows Muhammad [sa]. I will not follow him on anything he is not following Muhammad [sa] on. Muhammad is the gate to paradise, if you follow the path his Lord gave him. True believer with sound scholarship is like a troop leader in military column, marching on the path towards the gate. The one who is leading you to another path or ignoring the arrow pointing towards the gate should have the khaki wearer not following him. They must tell him, oga, you are going astray.



@plappville:

by plappville(f): 9:43am On Dec 18

Sweetnecta: @dexmond: in Islam of Muhammad [sa], the only human being you can not disagree with is Muhammad [sa].
this means the only human that can not be wrong is Muhammad [sa] when it comes to spirituality and morality.

so the 'experts' you have quoted, are just experts. people can reject or ignore or disagree with their statements, except when it grounded in what Muhammad [sa] brought, the Quran and or his pattern of behavior based on it and or his saying [what he says
agrees with the Quran].


So Mohammed was that perfect man? grin Yet He would ask The one who pen down His visions to modify them? How perfect was that? undecided

Muhammad [sa] is the perfect man. i can give you many reason, including no muslim on nl asking any christian that he wants to hold body because body no be wood. i have read so much that i know this is a market place for what Muhammad [sa] by his lord warned us all as one of the great sins. And as to your asking scribes to modify, the Quran itself answers you; Allah will protect this Revelation. Hence we in Islam, regardless of the whole world asking us to "MODIFY" it, we say no. And the anger you resorted to therefore is to make up story that the prophet [sa] asked for modification. I laugh in the language normandy.

by plappville(f): 9:49am On Dec 18

dexmond: ^^^^

You are denying your scholars who spent most of their lives studying Islam. I may well advise you to stop listening to your all your Alfas because if they study hard like those I quoted above, they will surely end up telling you the same. The main point is that Islam teaches and encourages violence, you can not pick what to believe as allah will not accept anything but total submission from you. What are you going to teach your kids, love or hate?


They call it "Holy war" hahaha...allah truely like blood grin
My broda thank you, there are the true color of Islam.
Even if some try to pretend, the book has all evidence of the above writeup.

are there holy warriors among the chrstians? if there are, plappville is not one of them and she will say they are fakes. But she believes in holy ghost. We have holy prophet, holy war. I am sure that there are better scholars in christianity than Jesus, is what you are arguing. We in Islam say that Muhammad [sa] is the best among man, in spirituality, leadership, justice, mercy, etc. I will not turn my other cheek for you to hit it. That will be stupidity. And I do not want to ki.ss everything that moves. Its not every skirt I want.

by plappville(f): 9:55am On Dec 18

tintingz: Ignorant crusaders grin

Get behind me...


You can say that again....!!!
@sweetnecta, ma broda in Adam&Eve, how u dey na?
So You know better than those Islam Experts?
You dont trust them and yet trust Mohammed who was illitrate, who has no ideal of what is been penned down for Him?

i dey. i hope you and yours dey? i pray good for all of you. There is no Jesus name in my prayer. It is direct to God without stopping at some station of somebody to carry. The scholars are learning from what comes from Muhammad [sa]. i am learning about you, can i know you more than you, who know you more than your hubby who knows you more than me, or your children who knows you better because they know you and i have not seen you? Since I am not a prophet receiving revelation from God about you, you will know yourself better than me. if i were receiving true revelation from God, then there are things God knows about you that you do not know. God may tell me those things and your husband must accept the things i say about you. Do you see how prophet of God is better in revelation than those who study the same revelation?



@proo212:

by proo212(m): 5:47pm On Dec 18

Sweetnecta: @dexmond: in Islam of Muhammad [sa], the only human being you can not disagree with is Muhammad [sa].
this means the only human that can not be wrong is Muhammad [sa] when it comes to spirituality and morality.

so the 'experts' you have quoted, are just experts. people can reject or ignore or disagree with their statements, except when it grounded in what Muhammad [sa] brought, the Quran and or his pattern of behavior based on it and or his saying [what he says agrees with the Quran].


@Sweetnecta, I hereby present this saying by Allah's apostle. What do you think of it?

it is this presentation of yours that is making me responding this morning. by the way is your 212 has something to do with manhattan? i live in it.

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 546:
Narrated Anas:

When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things which nobody knows except a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle" Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said, "The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has intimate intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah." 'Abdullah bin Salam further said, "O Allah's Apostle! The Jews are liars, and if they should come to know about my conversion to Islam before you ask them (about me), they would tell a lie about me." The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and 'Abdullah went inside the house. Allah's Apostle asked (the Jews), "What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam amongst you?" They replied, "He is the most learned person amongst us, and the best amongst us, and the son of the best amongst us." Allah's Apostle said, "What do you think if he embraces Islam (will you do as he does)?" The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him.

who is Abdullah bin Salam [RA], except that this jewish scholar became a muslim by the answer provided by Muhammad [sa] on child being like mother or father.

i have friends who married and fathers of children. most of those who are the dominant husbands have more sons, almost exclusively sons. those who are dominated by their wives, have more daughters, almost daughters, exclusively daughters. those who are neither dominating or being dominated have daughters and sons.

i have a friend whose ex wife is an admin judge in nyc. the woman dominated him so much that it led to their divorce. it was after the children were college graduates that she could not find any excuse to drag him to court. guess what? the children betweens them are daughters. he remarried and became the alpha male and he has a son. i have a friend who has about 9 sons and no daughters, he dominate in his relationships. my brother has 4 sons no daughters. i have sons. my sister has daughters. other sisters are daughters. what i found is that the personality and the son only fathers, their children look like them. the daughters only mothers, their children are unlike the fathers.

now, its what comes our of the male in inter.course that determines the gender of the baby. the woman egg is x always. when it is the sperm with y properties that reaches the egg first, it will penetrate it and no other sperm can penetrate the egg. such egg because of the male y which female does not have will develop to be male. if it is the x type sper.m that reaches the egg, the egg that has only x chromosome, when it penetrates it, what the egg develops to is always female. you can see it is what man carries, if its truly male that makes male babies. and when it is female, female babies occur because the x from mother is always there.

if you cant understand it in this scientifically, then if man discharges first, it will allow the Y type of sper.m to quickly swim to destination, leaving the x carrier sper.m much behind. the y sper.m will fertilize the egg and when the x sper.m finally swim to destination, there is no entry for it. If woman discharges first, the y sperm may run past the destination, while the x type of sper.m just stroll to the goal post. the goal keeper egg will say, hey my sister in x sorority, enter. then you have daughters.

i am sure if you look at personalities and resemblances of children, sons look more like dad, even in body structure, while daughters are more like mom.


are you married, mehn? do you look like mom? do your male children look like mom?


how about your children, plappville? do the boys look like you?

@Sweetnecta, please do not change the subject as you often do by writing epistles which have no bearing on the discussion. You said you trust your prophet's words. If you do, do you believe what he said about men and women's ejaculation resulting in the offspring's resemblance? If someone said that to you, you would say this is ridiculous. I'm sure Muslim scientists would laugh at such a statement because the logic is flawed but I trust once they hear Mohammed said it then would believe it like yourself.

On another note, Abdullah bin Salam became a muslim. Good luck to him but what about his people, what did they say when they heard it because you conveniently decided not to read to the end of the hadith The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him. Even the Jews still did not come to Islam afterwards. That tells you something.

...

Why are these christians becoming more desperate all of a sudden?

DID ISLAM SPREAD BY FORCE, SWORDS OR GUNS?

The unequivocal and emphatic answer is NO! The Quran declares:

"Let there be no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error." [Noble Quran 2:256]

Here is a good study of the question of the spread of Islam by a Christian missionary, T. W. Arnold:

"...of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism penal in France, or the Jews were kept out of England for 350 years. The Eastern Churches in Asia were entirely cut off from communion with the rest of Christiandom throughout which no one would have been found to lift a finger on their behalf, as heretical communions. So that the very survival of these Churches to the present day is a strong proof of the generally tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them".

Islam does not teach, nor do Muslims desire, conversion of any people for fear, greed, marriage or any other form of coercion.

There are a thousand and one questions christians need to answer about Jesus, christianity, pope, church, among others instead of washing their dirty linen in the open.

by proo212(m): 5:00pm
@Sweetnecta, please do not change the subject as you often do by writing epistles which have no bearing on the discussion. You said you trust your prophet's words. If you do, do you believe what he said about men and women's expulsion resulting in the offspring's resemblance? If someone said that to you, you would say this is ridiculous. I'm sure Muslim scientists would laugh at such a statement because the logic is flawed but I trust once they hear Mohammed said it then would believe it like yourself.

if no one spoke about the gender of children, i wouldnt raise it here. i simply responded to what you said, or your brother or sister said it. i am a father and what came out of me proves Muhammad [sa] to be speaking the truth. are you a father and how is the result? there are muslim doctors and they are quite happy with islam. the only way you could have proven Muhammad [sa] wrong is if you are God, prophet of God, like Jesus, not like your fake tb joshua. if you cant prove that God did not make man from dirt, a thing completely different from flesh and bone, etc, how can you not accept the possibility that what develops in the inside of mother as Muhammad [sa] said is 100% possible?

On another note, Abdullah bin Salam became a muslim. Good luck to him but what about his people, what did they say when they heard it because you conveniently decided not to read to the end of the hadith The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him. Even the Jews still did not come to Islam afterwards. That tells you something.

i know the hadith. you are not going to tell about hadith that i have read, listened to lectures, many times on. you do not know that the jews rejected Jesus, from their own blood and you are complaining about their refusal to accept Muhammad [sa], an arab, a son of Ismail they say is not a child of his father, the grandson of Hajar they say is not the wife of her husband? how smart is this idea of yours? and today, we have muslims who are jews. what do you say about that? in the time of the holy prophet [sa] they didnt say e was not a prophet. they just refused to follow him as they had refused to follow Jesus [as].