I-man:

Since the Japanese Parliament doesn't see it as genocide but an unfortunate consequence of war,I as a Nigerian cannot cry more than the bereaved.

I could have sworn you were a bible wielding, Fox news watching, war mongering Texan.

Sure had me fooled man. . .

Kobojunkie:

Another thing I want to add is this. No, the Armenian Genocide issue happened DURING world war I but the genocide was not part of the war. That is almost same as saying Hitler's anihilation of millions of jews and gypsies was part of world war II since it happened during war world II period. NO. What happened with the Hitler and the killings would be GENOCIDE, but the killing of soldiers during the actual WaR was simply war. Two completely different things that happened during the same time frame

hahahaha. I could find so many holes with your categorisation, I wont even bother.

Unless we see the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a racial,ethnic,national or political group,I fail to see how the bombings of the 2 cities constitutes genocide.

No,it is not genocide,I ,like the Japanese Parliament,do not see the bombings as acts of genocide.Unlike you,I do not cry more than the bereaved.

ocho cinco:



I could have sworn you were a bible wielding, Fox news watching, war mongering Texan.

Sure had me fooled man. . .

Its obvious you are fully immersed in the librull piffle that dominates contemporary discourse.

i dont know what they taught you in school but for me, war means lawlessness and violence, what happened to the jews could only happen in a war scenario, what happened and is still happening in darfur can only happen under some sort of conflict, therefore, if those can be called genocide, the same description should also go to the japanese issue. i'm not fighting for japan but what i hate is double standards

I-man:

Unless we see the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as a racial,ethnic,national or political group,I fail to see how the bombings of the 2 cities constitutes genocide.

No,it is not genocide,I ,like the Japanese Parliament,do not see the bombings as acts of genocide.Unlike you,I do not cry more than the bereaved.

they are part of a racial, ethnic ,national group and lost more people than darfur lost

western diplomacy has perfect excuses for every thing they owe an explanations and after all they own the dictionary. why would germany apologise to the jews, japan apologised to the koreans, and yet these folks (esp in the UK) blatantly refused even any sign of guilt for centuries of slavery. these people have perfect explanations for scenarios where they fault.

and I-Man i'm yet to hear armenian parliament(if any) complaining of genocis ~90yrs ago

toshmann:

i don't know what they taught you in school but for me, war means lawlessness and violence, what happened to the jews could only happen in a war scenario, what happened and is still happening in darfur can only happen under some sort of conflict, therefore, if those can be called genocide, the same description should also go to the japanese issue. i'm not fighting for japan but what i hate is double standards

The Jews were not a recognised nation of their own as at 1945, how could they have been a part of world war II?

toshmann:

and I-Man i'm yet to hear armenian parliament(if any) complaining of genocis ~90yrs ago

They have described it as genocide so I can feel free to call it one.The Japanese haven't,its not so much your sympathy with the Japanese,for they don't see it as genocide,but your animosity for the US that is the issue.

@I-man

Considering how homogenic the Japanese race is, it would take a lot even for the Americans to wipe out one of the more populous nations of the world.

if the bomb had been dropped in the Niger Delta, it would have qualified as a (x)-genocide. where x is a number no less than ten. A Deca- Genocide

davidylan:

The Jews were not a recognised nation of their own as at 1945, how could they have been a part of world war II?

Haba Father

i told u guys that there will always be a perfect excuse for issues

simple thing, genocide= human slaughter on a wide scale. period. sadam is guilty, hitler is guilty, america is also guilty as charged. QED

toshmann:

i told u guys that there will always be a perfect excuse for issues

simple thing, genocide= human slaughter on a wide scale. period. sadam is guilty, hitler is guilty, america is also guilty as charged. QED

By that measure,the Allied Forces were just as guilty of genocide as the Axis Powers,moral relativism in its purest form.Never mind that the Japanese don't consider it as genocide,the very people at the receiving end of the bombs,crying more than the bereaved is an essential tool in anti-American diatribe.

It's not about animosity to the US but i hate double standards. there is always a different law for the US/UK

I-man:

By that measure,the Allied Forces were just as guilty of genocide as the Axis Powers,moral relativism in its purest form.Never mind that the Japanese don't consider it as genocide,the very people at the receiving end of the bombs,crying more than the bereaved is an essential tool in anti-American diatribe.

yes, they are all guilty. i hate double standards. it's not about hating the US/UK. let there be peace justice and fairness.period. i'm not even interested in the japs or americans i'm only talking about fairness and let's keep the argument that way. argue against my points and stop diverting issues

Well the Japanese are no saintly victims either. Their treatment of their Asian Neighbours most notably China comes to mind.

Their Silence is only reasonable.

so the aborigines have to cry out b4 u realise that there was a genocide to wipe them out for australia to be established. and if they dont cry out it is no longer genocide? I-Man reason without emotion.

ocho cinco:

Well the Japanese are no saintly victims either. Their treatment of their Asian Neighbours most notably China comes to mind.

Their Silence is only reasonable.

thanx a lot. and they apologised to korea for their own atrocities, germany apologised to the jews, oyibo no gree say sorry to our people wey dem dabaru for 400yrs even a former archbishop for UK openly said there was no need for such (just a lil diversion. . . back to topic)

ocho cinco:

Well the Japanese are no saintly victims either. Their treatment of their Asian Neighbours most notably China comes to mind.

Their Silence is only reasonable.

Having acknowledged their own actions as genocide,nothing stops them from designating Hiroshima/Nagasaki as genocide as well.If all nations who have killed people in mass numbers must keep quiet about genocide,then nobody can speak up on genocide,for almost every nation or people on earth have at one point caused mass casualties.

I-man:

for almost every nation or people on earth have at one point caused mass casualties.

correct (including saintly US/UK. They are even the worst perpetrators)

toshmann:

so the aborigines have to cry out before u realise that there was a genocide to wipe them out for australia to be established. and if they don't cry out it is no longer genocide? I-Man reason without emotion.

The aborigines describe their's as genocide,so what's your point.If the people at the receiving end of the so called genocide don't think its genocide,what is an Igbo man doing insisting it is genocide? Isn't it bizzare for you to cry more than the Japanese?

toshmann:

correct (including saintly US/UK. They are even the worst perpetrators)

So you will prefer a world were genocide cannot be condemned?

ocho cinco
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  Re: The Usa Now Accuses Turkey Of Committing Genocide Against Armenia In World W
« #33 on: Today at 12:46:41 AM » 

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Quote from: Kobojunkie on Today at 12:42:54 AM
Another thing I want to add is this. No, the Armenian Genocide issue happened DURING world war I but the genocide was not part of the war. That is almost same as saying Hitler's anihilation of millions of jews and gypsies was part of world war II since it happened during war world II period. NO. What happened with the Hitler and the killings would be GENOCIDE, but the killing of soldiers during the actual WaR was simply war. Two completely different things that happened during the same time frame



hahahaha. I could find so many holes with your categorisation, I wont even bother.

I CHALLENGE you in this case to at TRY @OCCO CINCO


You do not go around LABELLING everything that does not go according to how you want it GENOCIDE. That is not how it works. That is why those men had to actually SPEND TIME DELIBERATING before they decided to VOTE whether to label the Armenian situation GENOCIDE OR NOT. Again, the word is not same as WAR. War is situation where you have two people consciously fighting each other. GENOCIDE is not.

@ Toshmann

You cannot compare the Japan casualties during a war ( designed to cause the enemy to surrender) to a deliberate action to exterminate a specific group of people. 80,000 killed in Japan is childsplay, Russia alone lost over 2 million soldiers, not to count civillians and other casualties. Why isn't that genocide? Because they were fighting a war.

you cannot redefine genocide to suit your narrow intentions to castigate/blame the West for their perceived crimes. When you seek to kill a person solely on the basis of his place of origin/tribe or racial background, with the intention of ridding the location of such, then it is genocide

The Turks aimed to get rid of all Armenians on their soil, Hutus wanted to exterminate Tutsis and vice versa, and the Serbs wanted to eliminate the Bosnians. Such incidents are genocide.

The issue here is the specific action carried out by the Turks against the Armenians, it is heinous, and so bad, but the Turks act like it NEVER HAPPENED!!

The West has not denied any of the actions that went on during the wars, but the intent was not to exterminate in any case. That is the basic crux of this issue.

Concerning even Iraq, though the US is culpable in causing the breakdown of society leading to the massive deaths by suicide bombers and sectarian killer squads, its intention was to go in as a 'benevolent saviour' and 'liberate' the people, they were completely oblivious to the possibility of finding themselves in the mess they are in today, so it is also different.

I-man face my arguments and stop mentioning igboman vs japanese man. haba. i'm arguing for fairness and justice. what is good for bush is good for obasanjo and singh.period. that way there'll be world peace. full stop. it's not about japanese, it's not about hating america , it is about global peace.

Toshman joins a growing list of members of the "blame it all on bush" brigade. Welcome.

By Toshman's astute definition can we please plan to charge the federal government to court for genocide against the igbos during the civil war?

LOOk,  when the times comes that we can throw LABELS around anywhich way we want and claim to be right. Then you can say you are right. But please, look into the reason why the word GENOCIDE has not be applied in every situation where people have ended up dead. Again it does not work that way.

davidylan:

Toshman joins a growing list of members of the "blame it all on bush" brigade. Welcome.

By Toshman's astute definition can we please plan to charge the federal government to court for genocide against the igbos during the civil war?

good point @DavidLyn,

@deboski (hopefully  we can reason objectively)

russia lost ~2 million soldiers. fine. civilians died in hiroshima, including babies yet unborn. that's the difference. it's like the nigerian conflict b4 the war where southerners( civilians) were killed in the north. killing someone who is not fighting and killing them in their numbers is genocide to me, i dont care what the oxford dictionary descrobes as genocide but where killing many civilians who are not fighting is involved in thier numbers e.g 80,000 then brother that is genocide and it's not about hating america at all, take note

and by the way, i've got family members who were born in america why should i hate? if i have to hate any country it is nigeria b/c that was where i was dissapointed most, so tell I-man to keep his hate theory abeg

is it not possible to argue on nairaland without being called names? i said germany killed many jews nobody talked about my hating germany, i said people were killed in sudan nobody talked about my hating khartoum, but when i talk about the US all man say i hate bush. na wa o

toshmann:

@deboski (hopefully  we can reason objectively)

russia lost ~2 million soldiers. fine. civilians died in hiroshima, including babies yet unborn. that's the difference. it's like the nigerian conflict before the war where southerners( civilians) were killed in the north. killing someone who is not fighting and killing them in their numbers is genocide to me, i don't care what the oxford dictionary descrobes as genocide but where killing many civilians who are not fighting is involved in their numbers e.g 80,000 then brother that is genocide and it's not about hating america at all, take note

and by the way, i've got family members who were born in america why should i hate? if i have to hate any country it is nigeria b/c that was where i was dissapointed most, so tell I-man to keep his hate theory abeg

Fact remains for most every war, civilians are almost always caught up. Do you want to decide that when 100 civilians die it is not genocide but say 80,000 die during a war, it should then be deemed genocide??

Come on !!! if you want to make it about numbers, then I do not see how you can do that since Genocide does not necessarily have to do with the number of people actually killed but more the intentions of the killer.

toshmann:

is it not possible to argue on nairaland without being called names? i said germany killed many jews nobody talked about my hating germany, i said people were killed in sudan nobody talked about my hating khartoum, but when i talk about the US all man say i hate bush. na wa o

Compare the above examples you give - Germany could not have been at war with the Jews they didnt have a UN recognized nation then) when they hounded over 6 million to gas chambers.
The supporter of APC is not at war with the citizens of Darfur yet they have slaughtered thousands.

The US and Japan were officially at war, Japan triggered the US response by attacking pearl habour and delivering a death blow to a large part of the US naval forces. All's fair in war! The US did not drop the atomic bomb simply because they did not like their Japanese neighbour's nose.

kobojunkie
if we go by ur argument we can then say that the guy who killed his schoolmates at the virginia tech(killed 32 students) has committed genocied? b/c they were civilians. of course genocide is about numbers. haba megida.

davidylan
just dont go there. dont bring out the issue of the igbos and the fed govt b/c some words are better left unsaid, so let's just continue to debate what we are debating.
thank you

@Toshman

Then every war is a case of genocide for in every war,civilians die in large numbers.

where it is calculated. . and civilians die in large numbers, it is genocide.yes