frosbel:

Okay , I understand, you are operating under 5000BC stone age  practises 

Quote from: frosbel on Yesterday at 01:32:23 AM Okay , I understand, you are operating under 5000BC stone age  practises

Kay 17:

Both the bible and the quran are both is masterpieces of lies, outdated morality and primitive lifestyle. LagosShia whenever you attack the bible, don't you see the same flaws you find in bible in yours?

The idea that a book is the only source of revelation from god is absurd. And you can't guarantee the authenticity of the books

Bulldog:

Please people, how does this quotation mean that frosbel accepted stoneage laws in the bible?! how does that correspond with the claim made by lagoshia who's blindness is now quite obvious. He's rather telling him that islam condone stone age laws. Look around you people and the presence of stone age laws of islam cant be hidden from your eyes cos the stench reaches the very heavens, from slaughtering, violation of women, burning of churches etc,  Let's take a look at the

textual integrity of the
Quran, by comparison,
as bequeathed to us by
the Quran and Hadith
themselves.
Though the Quran has a
short 23 year history, it
is so self-contradictory
that a whopping 71, out
of only 114 suras,
require abrogation.

In stark contrast the
bible spans a period
from Moses in about
1446 BC, to the book of
Revelation, written
around the end of the
first century.

Over that
period mankind
developed from desert
dwelling nomads, to
advanced nations that
could follow religious
law, as well as secular
laws of kings and
emperors.
It is important to note
that parts of the Old
Testament are purely
historical record, that in
no way imply God's tacit
approval, of what was
recorded of those
events.

These portions
simply chronicle events
that took place.

In spite of it's near 1600
year history, and the
large volume of
prophets, and legions of
witnesses, God's Word
requires no abrogation.

It should be apparent
that the Quran’s
voluminous abrogation,
required for a record of
recitations of an
illiterate,

that were
collected over the brief
span of just 23 years,
demonstrates not divine
revelation, but the
changing whims of it's
author.

A good example
is the convenient
"revelation" that allowed
Mohammed to take his
stepson's wife (Sura
33:37).

The Al-Nasikh wal-
Mansoukh - the
abrogator and the
abrogated - is the Arabic
language book that
details what is
abrogated by what.
Good video at this
address:
http://
www.youtube.com/
watch?v=6Kox5XNuyb8

According to
Mohammed:
Quran 2:106 None of
Our revelations do We
abrogate or cause to be
forgotten, but We
substitute something
better or similar :
Knowest thou not that
Allah Hath power over all
things?

NB:Not abrogated,  just,
substituted,  for
something better!
Later suras abrogate
those that occur earlier.
Suras like:
8:12 I will instill terror
into the hearts of the
unbelievers: smite ye
above their necks and
smite all their finger-
tips off them

Comprise the "better"
"substitute" for the
verses waaaay back in
sura 2:
2:256 Let there be no
compulsion in religion:,
It would seem
Mohammed knew what
a mess it was:

Surah 16:101 When We
substitute one
revelation for another,
and Allah knows best
what He reveals (in
stages), they say, "Thou
art but a forger": but
most of them
understand not.

It also seems
Mohammed suspected
he would be viewed as
a fraud he was!.
Please visit
http://IslamReview.com for
more on abrogation.

[Shakir 2:106] Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:106
Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Naskh, as a Quranic term, means substitution of one current law by another. It is called bada if the substitution is in the law of creation, and naskh if it is in the law of legislation.

Substitution has been effected in "creation" as well as in "legislation". The sudden changes in the course of creation, caused by the supreme will of Allah, a factor apparently incomprehensible for the human intellect, are known as miracles - like the birth of Adam and Isa, and the extraordinary performances carried out by the prophets and divinely chosen representatives of Allah. These miracles cannot be taken as effects without any cause, but are caused by a factor inconceivable by the human intellect. The effect of the creature's prayer in the course of providence is also based on the phenomenon of bada. These types of activities on the part of the creatures are a reaction to the divine action. They are governed by the possibility of bada, provided there is no contradiction. For example the "creation of a self-existing being" is a self-contradictory idea. Allah alone is the self-existing creator, and what He creates cannot be self-existing. The term "creation" itself suggests that it is not self-existing but was created whereas the term "self-existing" means that it was not created by anyone. Another example is of an "even number". It is impossible to stop it from being divided into two equal whole numbers. In view of the infinite power, possibilities and potentialities at the command of Allah it has been believed and accepted that every known operation in the creation can be changed, substituted or abrogated by His supreme will or action. The human knowledge may not comprehend the use of that which has happened and that which will happen, in the sphere of bada. It must be kept in mind that there can be no limitation to the power and ability of Allah. Imam Ali ibna Abi Talib says: "Allah has effected changes (bada) and will also effect many changes in the operation (system) of the universe."

Change {Naskh) in the "legislation" became necessary due to the gradual development of the human society. Though the spirit might have been the same but the laws and teachings for mankind in a developed society had to be other than what they were in the primitive age. The conditions and circumstances of a particular age do not appear again. There are teachings, applicable in every age, but they, keeping the essential spirit intact, take to new forms till they reach the final stage. From Adam to Muhammad, the divinely appointed teachers took into consideration the receptive capacity of the people. For example prophet Isa, knowing the limitations of his people, put off the delivery of the final message and asked them to wait for the promised prophet.

There is still much that I could say to you, but the burden would be too great for you now. However, when he comes who is the spirit of truth, he will guide you into all the truth: for he will not speak on his own authority, but will tell only what he hears; and he will make known to you the things that are coming.

(John 16: 19 and 13)

The divine order "to do" or "not to do" a thing is based upon reason - alms should be given for helping the poor; or liquor is prohibited in order to avoid its ill-effects. The justifying reason is in the thing ordered to be done or not to be done.

Sometimes the justifying reason is in the order itself. This is true of the orders issued merely as a test of the obedience of the believers. For example, the change in the direction of Qiblah was made (Baqarah: 149) to test the obedience of the believers; or when prophet Ibrahim was asked to sacrifice his son

In the first category naskh takes place only when the substitution is necessary in view of the new development. In the second category change is made, without making less its scope and intensity, so that it may fully serve the purpose of the trial. Through naskh as well as bada the withdrawal of the previous procedure or legislation is made known. If the time-limit has already been prescribed for any law or procedure then the term naskh or bada cannot be used. Every aspect of the creation or the legislation, together with their possible manifestations, are known to the creator. Naskh or bada (substitution) cannot be attributed to Allah's ignorance or change of mind. These terms are used in relation to the creatures' knowledge of the divine will. Some orders or processes carry the restriction of the period of validity at the time of their revelation in which case the term bada or naskh cannot be applied. Sometimes it manifests afterwards. In both cases of naskh and bada, the change or substitution means notification of the discontinuation of the procedure or legislation which was in force. In connection with the events of creation or the procedures of legislation the prophets of Allah, now and then, received definite revelations about the taking place of an event, with its details, without any possibility of any change; and at times the nature of the predictions of the consequences of an act was indefinite, which, subject to conditions, could be changed. When the development reaches the ultimate stage, as verse 115 of al An-am says, there is no changing in His words. In the gradual revelation of the laws to the Holy Prophet, no abrogation of any portion of the Quran has been effected. It is generally believed that some Quranic laws, had been abrogated by its own verses, or by the sayings of the Holy Prophet; a list of which has been prepared by the jurists and the commentators, but the context of the traditions, in view of the external evidence, has been, with ulterior motives, twisted and misapplied. A careful study of the Quran with a thorough knowledge of the conclusively proved laws of the faith, passed on to us by the Holy Ahl ul Bayt, the divinely chosen purified custodians of the word of Allah, makes clear the view and proves that there are very few, not exceeding five, abrogations; and even those cannot be described as real or actual naskh. For example the order to pay alms in verse 12 of al Mujadalah was given to test the sincerity of the persons who wanted to meet and talk to the Holy Prophet privately, because most of the companions, without any reason at all, sought his audience for the sake of personal vanity. After this order none paid the prescribed alms save Ali. The purpose of the test was to make public the insincerity of the companions, therefore, it was removed when their deception was proved. This order was totally withdrawn, after condemning the niggardly attitude of the companions, in verse 13 of al Mujadalah. This order resembles the order given to prophet Ibrahim to sacrifice his son. When it was proved beyond doubt that Ibrahim was certainly carrying out the divine command, the order was withheld (Saffat: 103 to 107). In the same manner when only Ali carried out the order of verse 12 of al Mujadalah, it was proved that he alone, and no one else among the companions, was in the category of prophet Ibrahim, therefore, the order was withdrawn.

As the Holy Prophet said, theoretically his sayings could change or substitute (naskh) the Quranic laws. Such change or abrogation can be accepted if reported on the authority of the thoroughly purified Ahl ul Bayt, because traditions reported through other sources are conflicting and spurious.

In every age, among all human societies, in different parts of the earth, the representatives of Allah were sent to put in order the affairs of the people through laws applicable to the time and environment in which they lived. Ability of man to apply reason and understand things and events progressed and advanced with the passage of time, therefore, certain laws and commandments (pertaining to theoretical, practical, intellectual, religious and legal matters concerning day to day life) which bring harmony and peace in every aspect of existence upon the earth, as well as make man ready to explore the higher regions of spiritual satisfaction, in certain cases and circumstances had to be changed or substituted to pave way for further progress. At last the last messenger of Allah, the greatest and the most manifest sign of Allah (the term Ayat or sign taken in a broader and higher sense means the best human soul created), endowed with the divine wisdom, power and authority, was sent to give effect to the concluding part of the plan of educating and training for the final unification of mankind through the true knowledge of the immediate as well as the ultimate. In the chain of the prophets of Allah, among whom some had been made to excel others (Baqarah: 253), the last prophet, Muhammad al Mustafa, the superior-most, the seal of prophethood, came with the final discipline and guidance. Once the development had reached its maximum height, there remained no need for any further change of any kind. Therefore, no prophet was sent after his departure (see commentary of verse 7 of al Fatihah), but a man like him, after him, is necessary as an Imam, in every age, for the authentic, true, and proper explanation of the word of Allah, the Quran, and also to serve as an ideal to guide and keep mankind on the right path. The following saying of the Holy Prophet is a true interpretation of this verse:

The first of us is Muhammad,

the middle of us is Muhammad,

the last of us is Muhammad,

everyone of us is Muhammad.

Only men of understanding know that the same quality of divine energy which activated the prophethood was also manifested in imamat with equal force.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

Kay 17:

Evidence is coming to light, that the Quran was after all not written in Muhammed's time not to speak of revealed. The obvious similarity with the bible and SyroChristian texts prove the quran was a product of man. The oldest quranic text is over 100 after Muhammed's time and his biographer Ibn Ishaq wrote on him 100 years after his death.

Lagos shia has been lying all along,

Quote from: frosbel on
Yesterday at 01:32:23 AM
Okay , I understand, you are
operating under 5000BC stone
age  practises

"frosbel" Admits That The Bible Is Made Of "stone-age" Laws

LagosShia:

^^^^^

it shows you are not sober.in your place,i would be crying and thinking deep and worrying about my faith and hereafter.but it shows you dont care even when you bible is exposed and christianity is stripped na.ked and shown for the falsehood and "pious fraud" it stands for.obviously,what matters to people like you most is "notice me" and demonstrating fine cloth an head gear in church,driving nice cars and empty bragging.nonsense!

Okay , I understand, you are operating under 5000BC stone age  practises 

so your bible god changes his mind with time? well it looks like he is growing up!!!or may be you guys are more advance than him when he was at his age 5000 years ago.

you have just admitted that your bible contains stoneage laws and your god is crude and foolish.

as for us,we dont live in self denial and we try to be as chaste and moral as possible as the Quran commands us.what we hate is when you try to lie and play with us to portray us for what we are truly not.

LagosShia:

"Bulldog",are you a "fastpoke"?
dont deceive us you are laughing.

Bulldog:

Hehehehehe, Anyone reading that will still spot the irony unless he's a muslem or maybe a complete slowpoke. Worshippers of the devil see how he makes you contradict yourselves

olasesi:

This is very annoying
How better could he av explained 2 u
U don't av to be very intelligent to understand that post,u only av to be human and reasonable
Obviously,Frosbel meant that law in the bible was 5000bc years old
He was rebuking lagosshia for quoting such verse as if he lived in the stone age.
If u still don't understand,plz refer back to INTENSIVE ENGLISH 3
and note that u might av to read book 1 and 2 thoroughly to grasp book 3

Bulldog:

i'm ain't a muslem, i'm not compelled by my faith to do a jihad or even teqiyya so why would i lie to you?