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The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) - Politics (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 11:16pm On Feb 06, 2012
Hrm.

Then again, I suppose it is impossible to draw boundaries exactly. And when you have a group who lives on the border of Ekitiland and Ijeshaland, it is likely that they'll be comfortable with both. . . so it doesn't really matter where you put them.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 1:38am On Feb 07, 2012
The Generals

Ibadan
Are Latosa
Osi, Ilori – son of Ogunmola and later Akintaro
Iyapo – son of Ibikunle
Balogun Ajayi Ogboriefon
Ali Laluwoye – Otun
Babalola son of Ajayi Ogboriefon

Ijesa
Ogedengbe
Ayomoro
Ogunmodede

Egba
Ogundipe
Ajagunjeun
Okenla

Ekiti
Fabunmi
Odeyale
Adeyala

Ilorin
Emir Alihu
Ajia
Karara – Balogun of Ilorin

Ife
Ayikiti – general

I may update the list later


The important question with regards to the Kiriji war - What were the lessons/outcomes of the Yoruba civil war?
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by T9ksy(m): 1:46am On Feb 07, 2012
Katsumoto:

The Generals

Ibadan
Are Latosa
Osi, Ilori – son of Ogunmola and later Akintaro
Iyapo – son of Ibikunle
Balogun Ajayi Ogboriefon
Ali Laluwoye – Otun
Babalola son of Ajayi Ogboriefon

Ijesa
Ogedengbe
Ayomoro
Ogunmodede

Egba
Ogundipe
Ajagunjeun
Okenla

Ekiti
Fabunmi
Odeyale
Adeyala

Ilorin
Emir Alihu
Ajia
Karara – Balogun of Ilorin

Ife
Ayikiti – general

I may update the list later


The important question with regards to the Kiriji war - What were the lessons/outcomes of the Yoruba civil war?




Please do and thanks for the info.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 1:47am On Feb 07, 2012
dayokanu:

Should we have a Nairaland version of Kiriji wars where i would be kicking the Ekiti parapo armies butts.

Who would be the Ogedengbe, the Fabunmi, Sodeke, the Kurunmi, the Latosa, the Ogunmola etc

Ektbear might end up being the leader of the Ekiti army on NL or Ufeolorun, you want to challenge him?

Who is the Ijesha to represent Ogedengbe etc?

hercules07:

@Katsumoto

The Ibadans had the Modakeke's back because they were originally Oyos though the modakekes were warriors afterall they had fought the Fulanis (no be beans to fight cavalry) and practically had nowhere to go, funny thing is present day modakeke was not the original modakeke.
@ufe
Of course we were fighting one another, though, we fought with honor and knew when to negotiate.
@Dayo
The Ibadans and their Oyo guys will kick the Ekiti and Ijesha parapo, na today?


You are both jokers - do you think this is the 18th century? Although my money will never go on Lagos.  grin grin grin grin grin


Dayo
Sodeke, Kurunmi and Ogunmola were all dead before the Kiriji war.

1 Like

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by isalegan2: 1:51am On Feb 07, 2012
dayokanu:

Should we have a Nairaland version of Kiriji wars where i would be kicking the Ekiti parapo armies butts.

Who would be the Ogedengbe, the Fabunmi, Sodeke, the Kurunmi, the Latosa, the Ogunmola etc

Ektbear might end up being the leader of the Ekiti army on NL or Ufeolorun, you want to challenge him?

Who is the Ijesha to represent Ogedengbe etc?

I would totally love to see that recreation.  Role Play on Nairaland.  lol.

Now, to choose the Aare Ona Kakanfo.  Or do we already have one?  Ta ni Nairaland fi j'oye o?   Was it Dayokanu, Ekt_Bear, Katsumoto, Negro_NTNS. . . 

Kilode, of course is the diplomat. grin  Or is that my role?  hmmm. 

Whatthehey?!  I throw my hat in the ring for the contest for Aare Ona Kakanfo!  Yes, I said it!  cool

ekt_bear:

My great-great-grandfather (the man I am named after) fought in this war. We had his sword, but it seems to be "missing" from our family compound undecided

A sword from that long ago.  Do you now what it looks like?  You could find an image online and post.  I'm curious to see it.  It reminds me of watching TV programmes like American Roadshow(?) and seeing caucasians bringing in antique African daggers and swords that they claim was bought (looted!) by their grandfathers during some "liberation" war or the other.  Stolen Benin artifacts and Eqyptian mummies, anyone?  angry

Kilode?!:

Orúko nií ro omo. . .

Names are like prophecies.

ekt_bear:

How did the Ijesha come to settle in western Ekitiland? How long have they (or I should say we) been there for?

The book, Kingdoms of the Yoruba, is one book where that aspect was covered in some detail.  I would recommend it because it is compact and can be a quick read.
 
http://books.google.com/books/about/Kingdoms_of_the_Yoruba.html?id=p3d1AAAAMAAJ

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Rgp92: 1:58am On Feb 07, 2012
Katsumoto:

The Generals

Ibadan
Are Latosa
Osi, Ilori – son of Ogunmola and later Akintaro
Iyapo – son of Ibikunle
Balogun Ajayi Ogboriefon
Ali Laluwoye – Otun
Babalola son of Ajayi Ogboriefon

Ijesa
Ogedengbe
Ayomoro
Ogunmodede

Egba
Ogundipe
Ajagunjeun
Okenla

Ekiti
Fabunmi
Odeyale
Adeyala

Ilorin
Emir Alihu
Ajia
Karara – Balogun of Ilorin

Ife
Ayikiti – general

I may update the list later


The important question with regards to the Kiriji war - What were the lessons/outcomes of the Yoruba civil war?





The war is not really a civil war, at that time yoruba was not united. The war did unit us, and also gave the europeans the chance to colonise us. Which many yoruba are still suffering from today.

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Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 1:59am On Feb 07, 2012
isale_gan2:

A sword from that long ago.  Do you now what it looks like?  You could find an image online and post.  I'm curious to see it.  It reminds me of watching TV programmes like American Roadshow(?) and seeing caucasians bringing in antique African daggers and swords that they claim was bought (looted!) by their grandfathers during some "liberation" war or the other.  Stolen Benin artifacts and Eqyptian mummies, anyone?  angry
I cannot remember what it looks like  sad

I saw it and held it age 15, but by when I came again to visit our town in 2006, it was gone.

I didn't realize the significance of it at the time. I should have taken pictures. . .


The book, Kingdoms of the Yoruba, is one book where that aspect was covered in some detail.  I would recommend it because it is compact and can be a quick read.
 
http://books.google.com/books/about/Kingdoms_of_the_Yoruba.html?id=p3d1AAAAMAAJ
Thanks, I'll take a look at it. Always good to learn about your personal history.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 2:09am On Feb 07, 2012
ekt_bear:

I cannot remember what it looks like  sad

I saw it and held it age 15, but by when I came again to visit our town in 2006, it was gone.

I didn't realize the significance of it at the time. I should have taken pictures. . .
Thanks, I'll take a look at it. Always good to learn about your personal history.

Dude,

Go and find that sword; you may need it very soon.

BTW, that book is ok but not great. I am talking bout Smith's Kingdoms of the Yoruba.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by NegroNtns(m): 2:12am On Feb 07, 2012
The Generals

Ibadan
Are Latosa
Osi, Ilori – son of Ogunmola and later Akintaro
Iyapo – son of Ibikunle
Balogun Ajayi Ogboriefon
Ali Laluwoye – Otun
Babalola son of Ajayi Ogboriefon

Ijesa
Ogedengbe
Ayomoro
Ogunmodede

Egba
Ogundipe
Ajagunjeun
Okenla

Ekiti
Fabunmi
Odeyale
Adeyala

Ilorin
Emir Alihu
Ajia
Karara – Balogun of Ilorin

Ife
Ayikiti – general

I may update the list later

yeah, hurry up and do that. . . . . I was wondering why my name wasn't on the list? cheesy
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 2:13am On Feb 07, 2012
I'll try, lol.

Though I suspect a hand gun or ak-47 might be more suitable for the Nigerian setting. . .
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by T9ksy(m): 2:13am On Feb 07, 2012
Katsumoto:

Dude,

Go and find that sword; you may need it very soon.

BTW, that book is ok but not great. I am talking bout Smith's Kingdoms of the Yoruba.

So, which book would you recommend, kats?
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by isalegan2: 2:14am On Feb 07, 2012
Katsumoto:

BTW, that book is ok but not great. I am talking bout Smith's Kingdoms of the Yoruba.

I won't argue with that assessment.  That book was the first I thought of.  I know there are more scholarly and detailed works.  But I remember reading quite a bit about the Ekiti-Ijesha dichotomy in there.

ekt_bear:

I'll try, lol.

Though I suspect a hand gun or ak-47 might be more suitable for the Nigerian setting. . .

Honestly, you are too Americanised! tongue  A sword takes you back to the past - thoughts of nobility, duels, chivalry. . .  Brings back thoughts of your forebear you just mentioned. cool 

Dude, you need to be one with your past.  angry  We're talking about swords that a warrior on horseback would have handled and you're talking about some cheap handgun that LA gangbangers, street thugs and crackheads would use to mug tourists on the street. lol.

*I foresee another fight between me and Ekt_Bear o.  Who shall referee this time?undecided

1 Like

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by nduchucks: 2:16am On Feb 07, 2012
Onlytruth:

hehehe! They think it is that sticks and stones hide and seek chasing games they were playing with themselves calling it "war". I dey laugh.
Aboki has been itching to thoroughly colonize their @sses and dip that Koran in the Lagos lagoon.
War ko, rat race ni.  undecided

This is most unusual and borders on shamefulness, but I'm with Eze Onlytruth on this one. The hope is that this thread is not an exercise of displaying the bravery or warriorship of a particular people, because, nna, 100 sword swinging skinny soldiers are no match for a single grenade toting skillful warrior from, you know where.   lipsrsealed
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 2:18am On Feb 07, 2012
Like I said earlier, it is important to avoid being baited by people who are not worthy of discussing with.

Already we have had 3 or so such posters on this thread.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by nduchucks: 2:24am On Feb 07, 2012
ekt_bear:

Like I said earlier, it is important to avoid being baited by people who are not worthy of discussing with.

Already we have had 3 or so such posters on this thread.

Stop attempting to appear as if you are smarter than the rest of the posters on the thread. They are bright enough to know what and what not to respond to.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 2:25am On Feb 07, 2012
Your advice is no doubt well-intended, but I don't remember asking you to offer it.

Go find another thread to troll.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 2:27am On Feb 07, 2012
isale_gan2:

I won't argue with that assessment.  That book was the first I thought of.  I know there are more scholarly and detailed works.  But I remember reading quite a bit about the Ekiti-Ijesha dichotomy in there.

Honestly, you are too Americanised! tongue  A sword takes you back to the past - thoughts of nobility, duels,  chivalry. . .  Brings back thoughts of your forebear you just mentioned. cool 

Dude, you need to be one with your past.  angry  We're talking about swords that a warrior on horseback would have handled and you're talking about some cheap handgun that LA gangbangers, street thugs and crackheads would use to mug tourists on the street. lol.

*I foresee another fight between me and Ekt_Bear o.  Who shall referee this time?undecided

Haha. Chivalry is dead.

Plus it takes much less time to learn to use a gun well than to become a decent swordsman.

3 months of training at the local range is probably enough to become good with guns. . .

I'm just trying to be somewhat practical grin
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 2:34am On Feb 07, 2012
ekt_bear:

I'll try, lol.

Though I suspect a hand gun or ak-47 might be more suitable for the Nigerian setting. . .

The sword is for hand to hand combat. Sometimes, you run out of bullets and your enemy is close by.

T9ksy:

So, which book would you recommend, kats?

1. The History of the Yorubas by Samuel Johnson (an Oyo man) so it is a bit Oyocentric but overall an excellent book.
2. Professor Akinjogbin - "Wars in Yorubaland, 1793 - 1893: An analytical categorisation
3. S.A. Akintoye's "Revolution and Power Politics.
4. J.F. Ade Ajayi and R. Smith: Yoruba Warfare

3 Likes 2 Shares

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 2:41am On Feb 07, 2012
ndu_chucks:

This is most unusual and borders on shamefulness, but I'm with Eze Onlytruth on this one. The hope is that this thread is not an exercise of displaying the bravery or warriorship of a particular people, because, nna, 100 sword swinging skinny soldiers are no match for a single grenade toting skillful warrior from, you know where.   lipsrsealed

Why are you so scared

You are with Onlytruth on this? A comment from someone (onlytruth) whose people settled communal disputes through wrestling contests when Oyo and Ibadan had some of the most advanced Infantry and Cavalry units in Africa. The first set of rifles purchased by Igbo people were the 12 rifles Ojukwu boasted about just before the start of the civil war. grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Your comments about sword swinging is ignorant at best. Yoruba had been using guns in warfare since the 17th century.

Quit trolling.

8 Likes 1 Share

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by NegroNtns(m): 2:50am On Feb 07, 2012
A comment from someone (onlytruth) whose people settled communal disputes through wrestling contests when Oyo and Ibadan had some of the most advanced Infantry and Cavalry units in Africa.

. . . .thats bravery! Yorubas are cowards. cool
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by OAM4J: 2:53am On Feb 07, 2012
Some of us no get time to read the books recommended, and I have no intention of taking over Kasumu's katsumoto's  job  cheesy

So, for the benefit of those reading now and who will read this thread in the future can we have some summaries and attempts to the questions.

I will want to know more about this war and about the Ijesha/Ekitis history. I intend to visit Ekiti soon, to pay Ileke-idi's bride price. The knowledge can be useful  cheesy

1 Like

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by isalegan2: 2:56am On Feb 07, 2012
ekt_bear:

Haha. Chivalry is dead.

shocked  shocked   angry  Good to know.

Plus it takes much less time to learn to use a gun well than to become a decent swordsman.

3 months of training at the local range is probably enough to become good with guns. . .

I'm just trying to be somewhat practical grin

You are an American Imperialist Capitalist anti-Monarchical anti-Traditionalist so-and-so!  angry  Don't even let me start with you. grin grin grin

Didn't we used to be buds?  lol. 


A man with a gun.
[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGL446lkUFmC3tMt1JWmZL3MNl1EZPjFakjix1DPcRMOIzJvCQ[/img]

A girl with a sword  grin
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by nduchucks: 2:57am On Feb 07, 2012
Katsumoto:

Why are you so scared

You are with Onlytruth on this? A comment from someone (onlytruth) whose people settled communal disputes through wrestling contests when Oyo and Ibadan had some of the most advanced Infantry and Cavalry units in Africa. The first set of rifles purchased by Igbo people were the 12 rifles Ojukwu boasted about just before the start of the civil war.  grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Your comments about sword swinging is ignorant at best. Yoruba had been using guns in warfare since the 17th century.

Quit trolling.

I believe you people just discovered the word "trolling", I reserve my comments this one time only because your post above is quite hilarious. As for ekt_bear, at the rate you are treading, inọ ma  mọ e ni esè méjeji.  cheesy
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Kilode1: 3:00am On Feb 07, 2012
a few of my take away History lessons from the Kiriji wars:

Confederacy is possible if we can find common ground ( present day Ijaw nation seems to be learning this too, hopefully)

Powerful Kingdoms can fall if they become too haughty and careless i.e Oyo Empire

There are few forces greater than the will power of a people pushed againt the wall. (The Ekiti Parapo Alliance symbolized this lesson)

The present Yoruba nation is an amalgamation of different Kingdoms within their own rights, bounded by common interests and the quest for survival.

We already fought this civil war, no point fighting it again (well, until another power hungry section decides to lord it over the rest of us)



Ekt-bear, you can also read "Movements, borders, and identities in Africa By Toyin Falola, some great analysis in there too to help with your questions.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by T9ksy(m): 3:01am On Feb 07, 2012
Katsumoto:


1. The History of the Yorubas by Samuel Johnson (an Oyo man) so it is a bit Oyocentric but overall an excellent book.
2. Professor Akinjogbin - "Wars in Yorubaland, 1793 - 1893: An analytical categorisation
3. S.A. Akintoye's "Revolution and Power Politics.
4. J.F. Ade Ajayi and R. Smith: Yoruba Warfare


Many thanks, Kats.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 3:06am On Feb 07, 2012
A little side project of mine that I've not had time to complete (because it is too much work for one man) is to place a copy of "The History of the Yorubas" online, freely available.

The copyright on it has expired, so technically it is in the public domain.

There is a scanned+OCRed version of it available online (see here: http://www.archive.org/details/historyofyorubas00john and here: http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt), but it has many many errors/typos that I've been fixing manually.

Perhaps it is time for me to upload it somewhere in a Wikipedia-style format so that the Yoruba community at large can help me fix the errors.

2 Likes 2 Shares

Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ektbear: 3:11am On Feb 07, 2012
Kilode?!:

Ekt-bear, you can also read "Movements, borders, and identities in Africa By Toyin Falola, some great analysis in there too to help with your questions.

I'll put that book also on my todo list. Thanks.

@isale_gan2 and @Katsumoto: Haha, point taken. Still, let me put my efforts into learning guns. Plus then I'll be motivated to learn how to mass-produce them cheaply, also  grin

This is a bigger strategic advantage than mastering swordfare, imo.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by NegroNtns(m): 3:44am On Feb 07, 2012
A little side project of mine that I've not had time to complete (because it is too much work for one man) is to place a copy of "The History of the Yorubas" online, freely available.

The copyright on it has expired, so technically it is in the public domain.

There is a scanned+OCRed version of it available online (see here: http://www.archive.org/details/historyofyorubas00john and here: http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt), but it has many many errors/typos that I've been fixing manually.

Perhaps it is time for me to upload it somewhere in a Wikipedia-style format so that the Yoruba community at large can help me fix the errors

. . . that will be excellent! On the last sentence, how will you verify identity? While internet sharing and online databases are a great blessing, they are also a big problem for false-proofing a document.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 3:55am On Feb 07, 2012
T9ksy:


Many thanks, Kats.

No sweat bro

Kilode?!:

a few of my take away History lessons from the Kiriji wars:

Confederacy is possible if we can find common ground ( present day Ijaw nation seems to be learning this too, hopefully)

Powerful Kingdoms can fall it they becomeme too haughty and careless i.e Oyo Empire

There are few forces greater than the will power of a people pushed againt the wall. (The Ekiti Parapo Alliance symbolized this lesson)

The present Yoruba nation is an amalgamation of different Kingdoms within their own rights, bounded by common interests and the quest for survival.

We already fought this civil war, no point fighting it again (well, until another power hungry section decides to lord it over the rest of us)


Ibadan is another example. It was arrogance on Latosa's part for thinking that he could fight all the Yoruba states at the same time. He started the conflict against the Egba even though his war chiefs were against. The Ekiti and Ilorin thereafter seized on that to engage Ibadan.

The Ekiti/Ijesha were determined to fight to the end. They had the most to lose and also the most to gain. Despite numerous setbacks and losses, they continued fighting. Ogedengbe got a lot of credit for that war but the only character that lasted the entire campaign was Fabunmi . It was Fabunmi who convinced the Ijeshas to fight when they were scared to fight and it was he who held the coalition together until Ogendengbe joined in 1879.

It must also be noted that the Ifes were the only people who switched sides during that war. Well not entirely true. The Ife Army fought with Ibadan because Ayikiti was made king by Latosa although the ife people were on the side of the Ekiti/Ijesha. They however switched sides when they decided to deal with Modakeke.

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Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 3:58am On Feb 07, 2012
ekt_bear:

I'll put that book also on my todo list. Thanks.

@isale_gan2 and @Katsumoto: Haha, point taken. Still, let me put my efforts into learning guns. Plus then I'll be motivated to learn how to mass-produce them cheaply, also  grin

This is a bigger strategic advantage than mastering swordfare, imo.

Don't get me wrong, guns are more important at this stage but believe me when I state that you need a long knife in battle. Unless, you are fighting in an open space, one is likely to engage in hand to hand combat when the conflict is in cities.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by koruji(m): 4:43am On Feb 07, 2012
Seeing that you are a veritable Yoruba history resource person on NL may I inquire concerning a certain writer. I came across Dierk Lange's writing on the net in the past year and have read some of his writings bearing on explaining how most of the ethnic groups in Nigeria got there.

I waited for about a year to read an upcoming paper of his titled "Origin of the Yoruba and “The Lost Tribes of Israel”". It finally showed up late last year. My impression of the connections he made between fleeing Assyrian/Egyptian/Israelite refuges in the 8th century B.C. and some of the peoples of northern Nigeria in the other papers were always tenuous. However, he seems to have gone completely overboard with his attempt to link the oral tradition of Oyo-Yoruba kings to this same group, but particularly the lost 10 tribes of Israel.

For example, this is the kind of "links" he makes: [size=14pt]Alaafin Abiọdun (of the oral Oyo tradition) became  Nabopolassar (Nabû-apla-usur) of ancient Babylon[/size]. Not realizing that Abiodun has direct Yoruba meaning he often argues that the previous names were corrupted to those in the oral history. See the paper here: Origin of the Yoruba and The Lost Tribes of Israel

I am concerned about this writer because references have since shown up on Wikipedia refering to the "discovery" of a link between Yoruba and the 10 lost tribes of Israel.

Are you familiar with this author or this type of approach to history? If so, could you please share your opinion on this paper.

Katsumoto:

Don't get me wrong, guns are more important at this stage but believe me when I state that you need a long knife in battle. Unless, you are fighting in an open space, one is likely to engage in hand to hand combat when the conflict is in cities.
Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by hercules07: 6:29am On Feb 07, 2012
@Kats

Ibadan will still kick all of una behind, you know we captured your general Ogendengbe several times (very brave and honorable man), kai, if not for the british, we would have dealt with all these small villages calling themselves towns, imagine the Ijeshas and Ekitis talking where Ibadans are grin (Ifes are nonentities, Modakeke dey kampe). Warring was a past time, heck, whenever a new Baale was chosen in Ibadan, the next thing is to declare war even for flimsy reasons. The Ilorins were cunning sha, but, the burning desire in the heart of all yorubas was to get Ilorin back (infighting no let them achieve am sha).

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