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Stats: 2,120,226 members, 4,591,970 topics. Date: Tuesday, 20 November 2018 at 12:35 PM
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 6:29pm On Feb 08, 2013|
Quite Educative and really insightful......Derailers also make it fun!!!
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by TonySpike: 6:40pm On Feb 08, 2013|
donroxy: Page O-11
Kiriji war is a chain of political events telling us how political powers should not be misused. From Afonja and Ilorin's hubris and their dare-devil actions to Oyo Kingdom to the oppressive Ibadans, and then the resilient Ekitis and Ijeshas, not forgetting the business-like Ijebus and amazing war-like Egbas. It is a story worth knowing. This history should not be forgotten just like that; it should be included in the Western Nigeria high school syllabus for posterity sake.
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|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by isalegan2: 7:23pm On Feb 23, 2013|
I missed this the last time.
Never gets old:
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Ufeolorun(m): 8:38pm On Feb 23, 2013|
Her attack was really personal,why? have got no freaking clue
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 7:11pm On Mar 08, 2013|
9jacrip: Andrew Uweh, I will advise you get better works on Yoruba history - check with Toyin Falola.
You seem to have a problem with Samuel Johnson or his book. You keep mentioning Toyin Falola but you keep failing to mention a book by Falola that is comparable with Johnson's book. Falola's Yoruba works are centered mainly on Ibadan and military structure in pre-colonial Yorubaland. Quite ironically, a book edited by Falola, Yoruba Historiography, is centered on Samuel Johnson's book. So I wonder why you persist with denigrating Samuel Johnson's book when even you preferred writer edited a body of works on Samuel Johnson.
Obaro Ikime's book does not even come close to Johnson's book, even though it is excellent in its own right. Many excellent books have been written about Yoruba history or aspects of it; it doesn't make sense to denigrate any of them because they provide different perspectives, from Akinjogbin to Ade-Ajayi to Lewis to Akintoye to David Laitin.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 7:22pm On Mar 08, 2013|
Most historical books or accounts are filled with myths. In my opinion, advanced cultures are able to dream and develop these myths. The Saxons tell us about knights slaying dragons, the Greeks tell us about gods who rule the skies, oceans, etc. What about Roman gods and goddesses? And guess what, films and books have been written about the European myths. Is Homer's book, the Iliad, not filled with myths? Why is he the most regarded Greek author of all time?
Mythology is part of Yoruba history and that is never going to change. Is it possible to write a book about any of the advanced cultures without including mythology? If others can embrace and celebrate their mythology, why can't Yoruba folks do the same?
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 7:15am On Mar 09, 2013|
True, somehow we have said the same things. Albeit from different angles.
Johnson's work serves as a blue print
Other works are revised/critically appraised works which Johnson's book also influenced (you made it seem like other works are offshoots of Johnson's work)
I'm not denigrating, Johnson's work has added quite a lot to how far Yoruba history has come today, he's an authority in his own right and I do not even come close to denigrate, never. All I'm saying is virtually all posts here seem to be centered on Johnson's book alone when there other works one could look at. Other readers might take the work to be ultimate (it is in its own right) but I wasn't thought to look in one direction when researching/writing besides professors I've met won't accept the like of kiriji war write-up if it is solely based on johnson like YOU do. My GF then back in school wrote on OWU war which Johnson covered, the book was relegated to literature review and referenced here, shee was pressed to think outside th box, see outside her view.
My point is, there are possibly other works on Kiriji war, Samuel Johnson covers it in details but then, there are other works.
To each his own anyways, I'm speaking from how I know history writing to be handled.
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|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 7:33am On Mar 09, 2013|
You shot yourself in both legs with the bolded.
History is defined as an account of the activities of humans and not of gods...
Sir, with utmost respect, if you are not trained in the field/discipline kindly evaluate things you write (no insult intended).
This is why most historians balk at Johnson's work, full of myth. History writing seeks to do a thorough evaluation of these myths and bring them to 'earth'.
Please, do a proper research on what history is - it is way beyond ear-watering myths that leaves a kid's imagination running.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 9:09am On Mar 09, 2013|
Recent historical records may be less filled with myths than older accounts but there are myths nonetheless in those works. That's why I gave an example of Homer's Iliad.
You have stated repeatedly that you have a degree in History, that's fine but this thread is about the Kiriji war and if I am correct, you are yet to share any knowledge. All you have done is tell us your historical pedigree and defined history. What can you share with us about the Kiriji war? And please, it shouldn't be from Johnson's book. What other books about the Kiriji war have you read?
If you have read Johnson's book, can you tell us what myths he wrote about in relation to the Kiriji war? This is not the time to obfuscate or be generic. This thread is about Kiriji, please list the myths in Johnson's book in the Kiriji sections.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 11:22am On Mar 09, 2013|
Your points noted.
Your questions are: I should list the kiriji war myths, yes? And I should contribute to the discourse w/out using johnson's work?
As I said, Johnson's work is a 'blueprint', so even if I manage to conjure up works on it, won't it reiterate samethings Johnson's work said, but in an analytical way?
Homer was a poet not a historian, if you're going to cite any greek historian start from Herodotus/Thucydides.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to state I studied history. It is just that I involuntarily react when I see sumtin I'm passionate about not being handled pproperly.
I'll be back sir!
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 6:00pm On Mar 09, 2013|
Ok, we are making progress.
So you are just going to read Johnson's book to be able to state the myths he recorded about Kiriji yet you have been stating vociferously that the work is filled with myths. You should have been able to list one or two the myths without recourse to the book.
Second, as a historian (or history student) and as someone who has stated/implied that Johnson's book is not all that and gone on to recommend another author, you should be able to list a few books that cover the Kiriji war MORE COMPREHENSIVELY without research and tell us why they are more comprehensive.
As for your point about Homer being a poet, that's getting technical and pedantic. I refer to Homer as a historian because of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 7:10pm On Mar 09, 2013|
Ok, we are making progress.
Yes we are.
I have read Johnson's work from cover to cover so rest yourself on that sir. Kiriji war doesn't contain 'super hero' activities, nobody dropped from the sky with chain and it was all activities of men - that's history.
I should 'educate' you as a history enthusiast that historians/history students do have areas of specialisation - though one is required to have a brief knowledge of almost everything but it would be stupid for me to lay stupid claims of things I've read in passing and never felt compelled to dig further.
Homer remains a poet no need beating around the bush, point blank! Forget Illiad and Odyssey they are both fictional works sir. Please I've always respected your contributions like most people on NL, don't come off with these works being history works. Do your research, thank you.
I'm coming back with research works on Kiriji sir, like you, I do not know everything.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Katsumoto: 7:37pm On Mar 09, 2013|
You have been commenting on this topic like you have an average grasp of the topic when in reality, you probably haven't read the book. You should read a book and then offer an opinion and not offer the opinion before reading the book. I don't have an issue with folks developing an interest in a topic and then seeking to research more on the subject. The problem I have with your approach is that you kept referring others to other books because you believe Johnson's is filled with myths. When challenged to state those myths and offer your insight into the event, you retort that you are going to do research.
In any case, I am satisfied that you don't really have a grasp of Johnson's book, the Kiriji war, and any other books on it. I am happy with Johnson's work having read other accounts from Akinjogbin, Ade Ajayi, Awe, etc. You may share your newly acquired 'insight' with others on the thread but I do not wish to pursue this discussion any further for obvious reasons.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 7:48pm On Mar 09, 2013|
Funny how you're taking a defeatist approach.
I have countered Johnson's work in general terms to be filled with myths not on Kiriji per-se.
Further more, I stated I've read Johnson's work from cover to cover (almost every fresh student of history start with his work).
I've admitted to not being enthralled by 'kiriji war' which you of course seem fascinated about.
I wouldn't want to pursue this further either for obvious reason being you appear to be a lay-man to/of history - simple and plain. I ought to have let the matter rest with how you tout Johnson's work, state Homer to be a historian, claiming Oddysey and Illiad to be history works - how disastrous could that be?
P.S: Johnson wrote a good work on Kiriji but he wasn't the only one who touched that topic is what I'm saying and for the record, I didn't state the work on Kiriji to be mythologized in the book.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Kilode1: 8:26pm On Mar 09, 2013|
Oga, please, don't go away like that o!
You can see this is a collaborative thread on Kiriji Wars, so please share your knowledge and insight with us.
We welcome facts, myths, hear-say, My grandfather-told-me-so stories, oldwives tales sef.
Heck, we even welcome first hand accounts of personal exploits even ( some people here probably fought in the Kiriji wars from the way they 'talk) '
Seriuosly, don't go away sir, drop more knowledge. Invite your historian GF too.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by vandarsar(m): 4:57pm On May 06, 2013|
Very very educative thread.
But I noticed much wasn't said about the Ijaiyes.
Am an Ijaiye man and am really willing to know Ijaiye's exploits and position in Yoruba history before and after the genocide war broke out between them and the Ibadans. Honestly I know all those kurunmi and Ogummola things, what am seeking is an in depth knowledge of how the ijaiye were doing before and after the war. By after the war, I mean where did they go to? Where can u find them in modern day Yorubaland, and of course am from Abeokuta
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by TonySpike: 5:03pm On May 06, 2013|
vandarsar: Very very educative thread.
I believe Ogbeni Katsumoto and Ogbeni Negro_ntns will help you out with Ijaiye. I think I read that the initial Ijaiye was destroyed during the Kiriji wars. And of course, I'm not sure sure whose side the Ijaiyes of those days fought on; could they have fought against the Ibadans?
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ayyoshert: 4:00pm On May 14, 2013|
there is no need for any assertive comment here or tribal superiority or that the thread is aimed at promoting a tribe's glorious historical past. This is the truth, there is no fable or myth in all these. Kiriji war was fought and some of the guns and cannons which are now relics still lie in the present day Igbajo(somewhere in the Ijesha division) and Oke-Mesi Ekiti as at today although not well kept as it should have been. The word Kiriji was even borne out from the thunderous bombing that came from the canon being fired. This a true history, no lies or sweet saying.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by tpia5: 4:05pm On May 14, 2013|
Anybody who feels the armchair chatter on nl can replace the research done by trained professionals who were in a closer time frame to the events under discussion, is probably a terrorist, armed robber or other type of trained criminal trying to feel funky and grab land.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by TerraCotta(m): 8:59pm On May 14, 2013|
I can understand 9JaCrip's point (and I'd even award him some more points "for most unusual history enthusiast's nickname" ). The earlier parts of Reverend Johnson's book are clouded in mythology and relies on earlier works with their own problems, notably Sultan Bello's writings. His book is still the gold standard on Yoruba history and culture--everything from names to the different facial marks, gods and even clothing is included in the book. I also think Rev. Johnson is trustworthy on the Kiriji war since he was an eyewitness and a treaty signatory as well--he lived through some of the events in the latter part of the wars. It's also true that his brother Obadiah had to recreate most of the book from Johnson's notes after the original manuscript was lost so there may be some material included/excluded that Johnson might not agree with.
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|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 3:08pm On May 15, 2013|
TerraCotta: I can understand 9JaCrip's point (and I'd even award him some more points "for most unusual history enthusiast's nickname" ). The earlier parts of Reverend Johnson's book are clouded in mythology and relies on earlier works with their own problems, notably Sultan Bello's writings. His book is still the gold standard on Yoruba history and culture--everything from names to the different facial marks, gods and even clothing is included in the book. I also think Rev. Johnson is trustworthy on the Kiriji war since he was an eyewitness and a treaty signatory as well--he lived through some of the events in the latter part of the wars. It's also true that his brother Obadiah had to recreate most of the book from Johnson's notes after the original manuscript was lost so there may be some material included/excluded that Johnson might not agree with.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by ecosanders: 4:51pm On May 15, 2013|
Andre Uweh:here we go again, trying 2 derail a great thread wit ur ibotic Igbo, by pitchng one ethnic group wit d oda. Koranu e soun jo!
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 3:11pm On May 19, 2013|
Are oral historical accounts allowed here?
Want to post about the 'Osoomalo', Ijeshas and the probable reason why the Ijesha land is more than their neighbours.
The accuracy of such accounts may be questionable but it will be as I heard it.
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by anonimi: 3:49pm On May 19, 2013|
kingphemy: Are oral historical accounts allowed here?
Why not start a fresh thread on that?
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Nobody: 4:45pm On May 19, 2013|
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by olumidaie(m): 1:12pm On Jun 22, 2013|
Lovely thread, please what is the consevrative estimate of the ARMIES SIZE. I read it somewhere that the Ibadans recruited/TRAINED fresh 89,000 soldiers to their stock( I'll provide the link later).
I also read that despite the fact that the Ijesas were surounded by the Ibadans in their walls, Ogedengbe could still field 10,000 Ijesa soldiers before thousands of Ekiti and the rest joined.
Could Ibadan, Ogbomoso, Ijaye( before if fell), Ilorin, Egba, Ijesa, Ekiti, igbomina, Ijebu, Owo, Ondo and Akure, have had forces at least 10,000 strong as I heard, and some have tens of thousand?
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by olumidaie(m): 6:45pm On Jun 22, 2013|
ok I forgot to add Oyo and Offa, anyway, this is the link
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by lakhadimar: 9:52am On Oct 26, 2013|
Andre Uweh: Once again, how can I lay my hand on Samuel Johnson's book ''The History of The Yoruba''.Last month i got a copy at the BOOKSELLERS BOOKSHOP at jericho road in ibadan
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by Africaman: 11:05am On Oct 26, 2013|
lakhadimar: Last month i got a copy at the BOOKSELLERS BOOKSHOP at jericho road in ibadanActually, you can get an online copy for free to read or download.
You can find it here: http://archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by TonySpike: 11:42am On Oct 26, 2013|
This thread is back....reading some of the comments on this thread reminds me of the recent discussions on Kwara and Ilorin. This thread is an historical bookmark and one of the first links to appear on google search when the word KIRIJI WAR is googled
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by TonySpike: 11:48am On Oct 26, 2013|
This is a recent article from Punch Newspaper on the Kiriji Wars. It is dated September 16th, 2013.
Can someone confirm that the information in red actually happened in 1886? I thought the treaties between the Ibadan armies and the Ekitiparapo armies happened in 1893...
|Re: The Yoruba Kiriji Wars (1877 - 1893) by nduchucks: 1:11pm On Oct 26, 2013|
Tony Spike: This is a recent article from Punch Newspaper on the Kiriji Wars. It is dated September 16th, 2013.
That will go under the classification: Tales by the moonlight. How can illiterate Obas sign any treaty which they can't read? I question the detailed accounts of these wars reported by one or two 'historians'. In my opinion, their accounts were made up. I stand corrected as soon as someone can show me detailed and verifiable bibliographies to support their accounts. Nonesense
Katsumoto has now become the harbinger truth as far as the history of Kiriji wars is concerned. Only gullible people will believe unverifiable accounts simply because it was stated by some oversexed internet champion. SMH
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