Johnnie ZM:

By the Grace of God! I have a the righteous of Christ because without him dying for me I am nothing because the bible says our righteousness are like filthy rags before God. But with the holiness of Jesus I am covered because his mercies endures for ever.

For further question mail me on johnoghie@yahoo.com

you have already started sounding like small pastor soon you will open your own shop
abi shoshi

too many questions remain unanswered in the catholic church, people are more free these days and want answers to a lot of questions pertaining way of worship, day to day life.which the catholic church can not provide. As much as God is a God of order too many rigidity and unsatisfied answers also affect the high rate of movement.
But on a serious note, the catholic church in nigeria is catching up.

Johnnie ZM:

Guy you are getting it all wrong....you completely left the subject matter. WHY DO YOUTHS LEAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is the question. Personally I left the Catholic Church too because of many reasons:

1.There is doctrine following than teaching the bible.
2.The focus is on Mary rather than Jesus, the bible says there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved....it's only Jesus name.
3.There is too much IDOLATRY in Catholic Church...bowing down to statues, communion, alter etc!
4.There are a whole lot of unbiblical stuffs in Catholic that can be tagged demonic or mystical.........exhuming of dead people (saints), asking saints to pray for them not being able to make use of the power in God to get things done etc

Need not say more because there are a lot of creepy things in Catholic that will take an insider to know.

Most so called Catholics today just attend church without getting to the deep root of Catholicism.....you need to go deep and research things and check them in line with the Bible, you'll be amazed at what you'll discover.

I pray that all Catholics will have their eyes open to the truth of God's Word as I did.

Shalom.

Amen to that!

Sam samy:
And which humans do Catholics pray to? In case you are uninformed as it appears,Christ is the son of God, and was God Himself. He left a legacy on earth before he left the earth, and this legacy was tbe extablishment of His one, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic church.The Catholic church is Apostolicin the sense thatit was established under the foundation of the Apostles, who have sustained the church down the ages. The present Pope, and every Popes who will come after him are representatives of the apostle Peter, to whom Christ said "you are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church". Christ is the chief sherphed of his church, and the ruler of His flock, come let us adore Him in the Catholic Church. The angels and saint around Him in Heaven help to intercede or pray for us to God when we call on them, and when we know we are not worthy to call on God due to sin.

Read your bible very well; you will see that
- if you are already born again, you are a saint!
- the Holy ghost intercede and not angels or saints
- we are not save because we belong to a catholic church or others, but we are save because we believe in Jesus the Christ

hope that helps

gegee: i've read about the history of the catholic church and their practices. if any person gets that sort of information they won't want to remain in the catholic church........besides worshiping God doesn't have to be boring

I would like to ask you a question ...
This photo is of a ceremony in a church ceremony or a traditional religion?

gegee: i've read about the history of the catholic church and their practices. if any person gets that sort of information they won't want to remain in the catholic church........besides worshiping God doesn't have to be boring

I would like to ask you a question ...
This photo is of a ceremony in a church ceremony or a traditional religion?

My Dear Catholics, don't imagine that the thousands of people who leave the Church every Sunday do so because they want to go to a Church where they are allowed to wear what they like. Some folks are guilty and I admit it but most folks are just sick of the deadness of the Catholic Church. I do like to argue alot and I also like to marshall my points before I take anybody on. Every single time ask a priest to show me in the Bible where they find the basis for some of their doctrines I just called a trouble maker and my Mom is given a talking to.

This is all while I was under 15 years old, this generation is more informed than any generation in human history so the Church cannot keep up the Charade for much longer.

This things are the foundation of Christianity and the Church keeps.

Baptism
Tithe/Offering
Prayer
Worship
The Preaching of the Word (abeit a lot is left to be desired)
Alms and Helping of the poor (the Church gets maximum credit here, they do a fantastic job)

But where do we find this in the Bible.

Purgatory
The infalliability of the Pope
Penance
The intercession of the saints
Marian Shrine
Holy Water
Blessed Sacrament

Ask all the Dictators who fell in the past year you cannot bully this generation into believeing anything except you have concrete proof.

Mafious: My Dear Catholics, don't imagine that the thousands of people who leave the Church every Sunday do so because they want to go to a Church where they are allowed to wear what they like. Some folks are guilty and I admit it but most folks are just sick of the deadness of the Catholic Church. I do like to argue alot and I also like to marshall my points before I take anybody on. Every single time ask a priest to show me in the Bible where they find the basis for some of their doctrines I just called a trouble maker and my Mom is given a talking to.

This is all while I was under 15 years old, this generation is more informed than any generation in human history so the Church cannot keep up the Charade for much longer.

This things are the foundation of Christianity and the Church keeps.

Baptism
Tithe/Offering
Prayer
Worship
The Preaching of the Word (abeit a lot is left to be desired)
Alms and Helping of the poor (the Church gets maximum credit here, they do a fantastic job)

But where do we find this in the Bible.

Purgatory
The infalliability of the Pope
Penance
The intercession of the saints
Marian Shrine
Holy Water
Blessed Sacrament

Ask all the Dictators who fell in the past year you cannot bully this generation into believeing anything except you have concrete proof.

Dear friend:
I agree with you.
Many of these Catholic elements are taken from pagan cults ... (holy water, for example). Purgatory, the Blessed Sacrament and the trilogy, not part of Christian doctrine, but were created many centuries after Jesus' death. The Catholic Church has made a huge effort to "aggiornarse" is true ... at first was not a sin of adultery (Abraham), then if it was ...
The church felt that sex was a sin (which aberration!) But John Paul II in Africa asked to use condoms ... (?).
The Catholic Church makes an effort to evolve, but can not. Its very structure prevents it. This place has lost to the Pentecostals, that much more intelligently, they have so many interpretations of the Bible as pastors ... the majority does not think much of sin as tithes are paid in a timely manner ... (that's what really matters).
All this is unlikely to change ...

It is so ironical that many people criticise the church yet they practise the teachings of the same catholic church. They join us in celebrating christmas, Easter and also worship on sundays. Did you not read in your history books that the catholic church changed the worship day from saturday to sunday in line with the then Roman tradition. Did you not read that the catholic church gathered the various scriptures in what we call The Bible. Which other church can reach out to the most remote areas in the world today and spread the gospel. Only the catholic church.
My advise to the gallivanting ones - You will discover the truth and I hope it would not be too late. The catholic church remains the greatest religious institution in the world today. QED

okpurukata: It is so ironical that many people criticise the church yet they practise the teachings of the same catholic church. They join us in celebrating christmas, Easter and also worship on sundays. Did you not read in your history books that the catholic church changed the worship day from saturday to sunday in line with the then Roman tradition. Did you not read that the catholic church gathered the various scriptures in what we call The Bible. Which other church can reach out to the most remote areas in the world today and spread the gospel. Only the catholic church.
My advise to the gallivanting ones - You will discover the truth and I hope it would not be too late. The catholic church remains the greatest religious institution in the world today. QED

Dearly Beloved, where did you get your history from? Catholicpedia of Christian History? The bible was never complied by the Catholic Church, Google bible and see the truth! Pertaining to the days of worship, it was the Apostles that started gathering on Sunday because Jesus resurrected on Sunday......the Catholic maybe the greatest religious institution in the world but it is also the greatest institution teaching people heresies and sending them to hell in their billions! I was once a Catholic and tell you since I left the faith I have been more enlightened in the bible...since bible is not read in the Catholic church we only read prayer books, missals and other. Catholics import all forms of demonic and pagan practice in the worship. Things like exhuming the dead that is occultic, rosary etc. They even have bones of dead saints on their alters....ask your reverend fathers!

This things are the foundation of Christianity and the Church keeps.
Baptism
Tithe/Offering
Prayer
Worship
The Preaching of the Word (abeit a lot is left to be desired)
Alms and Helping of the poor (the Church gets maximum credit here, they do a fantastic job)

Tithing has nothing 2 do with basic christian doctrines.Infact it is not a christian teaching as nowhere in d bible were christians asked 2 tithe.Christians r always encouraged to give out of their own volition.

Why didn't you mention the eucharist and impartation of the holy spirit(confirmation) which are also vital 2 d christian faith
.

@JonnieZM

It is now becomming obvious you never knew anything about the catholic church but was merely a church goer

How could you claim catholics don't read bible in church?you are merely being mischievous.The catholic church has a three year bible reading plan designated year A,B n C respectively within which the entire bible is covered.

As you had already being informed the bible was compiled by the RCC in the fourth century CE.Before then the bible was not in existence.Hundreds of Scriptural writings have existed as seperate documents.It was the RCC at the synod of hippo in 393 CE and council of carthage in 397 CE who canonised and compiled the bible as we have today by selecting among the several circulating wriite ups into one book now designated as d bible

chukwudi44:
This things are the foundation of Christianity and the Church keeps.
Baptism
Tithe/Offering
Prayer
Worship
The Preaching of the Word (abeit a lot is left to be desired)
Alms and Helping of the poor (the Church gets maximum credit here, they do a fantastic job)

Tithing has nothing 2 do with basic christian doctrines.Infact it is not a christian teaching as nowhere in d bible were christians asked 2 tithe.Christians r always encouraged to give out of their own volition.

Why didn't you mention the eucharist and impartation of the holy spirit(confirmation) which are also vital 2 d christian faith
.

Chukwudi you are sooooooo wrong!

A notable Pastor in the name Pastor Eddie Cude wrote:

What is the tithe? It is the "gateway for the believer into the covenant of blessings." In the Hebrew "maaser" or "maasrah," is translated tenth, or tenth part, and in Greek "apodekatoo" and in both, it means a payment or giving or receiving of the tenth.

The tithe is that tenth of our income that we give to God, which enables Him to move on our behalf in the area of blessings. The Bible records numerous accounts of man tithing to God. God is the creator of everything that exists. He owns everything and we are simply stewards of what we have been entrusted with. The tithe principle is this; "He gives unto us, we give back to Him one-tenth of all that He has blessed us with."

Abraham tithed unto Melchizedek, Isaac tithed, His son Jacob and many others also even before the law was given. Many Christians do not tithe because they have been taught that they are not under the law, but under grace. While this is a true statement, God did not institute the tithe to bring us under the law, but to get blessings to His children. Abraham tithed before the law, and God blessed him supernaturally. We're under grace that we might establish the law; not turn from it. Jesus said that He didn't come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it. Because He fulfilled it, we are to establish it. His Words are forever settled in heaven, therefore we establish His Words upon the earth.

Matthew 5:17-19: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

So Chukwudi I want to tell you that if you are not paying tithe you are a thief robbing God, read Malachi 3:8-10 and see for yourself.

Other verses include:

Leviticus 27:30 "And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."
1 Samuel 15:22: "And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams."
See also this website - [url]http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=161
[/url]

Shalom.

Purgatory is implied in the bible in the 1 pet 3:19-20,1 pet 4:6 where Jesus went to preach to the souls in "prison" here purgatory is referred to as prison.the souls here referred were those who perished durind Noah's flood.

Papal infallibility does not mean the pope cannot sin.It simply refers that once a pope is under the influence of the holy spirit to pronounce matters of faith he cannot be wrong.His infallibility does not mean he is not susceptible like every other human to sin

Penance is simply asking God for forgiveness of our sins and making restitution.how on earth is that not on the bible.This is a basic teaching of the christian faith and applies to all denominationa even though some might not call it penance but the same principle applies

Intercession by saints simply means asking saints to pray for us which is another fundamental christian principle.The much I know even you pentecostals ask your pastors to pray 4 u
Marian shrine is a shrine devoted to intercessary prayers by the virgin mary.it is just like redemption camp is devoted to those who go to Adeboye to pray 4 them abi is redemption camp in the bible as well

I still find it amazing that someone who grew up in a catholic family would ask where the blessed sacrament is mentioned in the biblem

The bible explicitly states in luke 22:14-20 and several other passages that Jesus instituted the eucharist a memorial of his sacrifice.The blessed sacrament is Jesus consecrated 4rm bread during the mass

chukwudi44: @JonnieZM

It is now becomming obvious you never knew anything about the catholic church but was merely a church goer

How could you claim catholics don't read bible in church?you are merely being mischievous.The catholic church has a three year bible reading plan designated year A,B n C respectively within which the entire bible is covered.

As you had already being informed the bible was compiled by the RCC in the fourth century CE.Before then the bible was not in existence.Hundreds of Scriptural writings have existed as seperate documents.It was the RCC at the synod of hippo in 393 CE and council of carthage in 397 CE who canonised and compiled the bible as we have today by selecting among the several circulating wriite ups into one book now designated as d bible

I was a serious member unlike you....only that I was more enlightened than you are. I was baptized, took First Holy Communion, did Confirmation and was almost sent to be a priest by my dad but God was on my side. My dear Google Bible and see how it all came to be. Also I tell you what we read in the Catholic Church is Missal which is a compilation of the Four Gospels and Responsorial Psalm and maybe one of two bible story! Guy I know what I am saying. If you read your bible very well you'll see that most of the Catholic Practices are not biblical!

Shalom!

Want more on this email me on johnoghie@yahoo.com

chukwudi44: Purgatory is implied in the bible in the 1 pet 3:19-20,1 pet 4:6 where Jesus went to preach to the souls in "prison" here purgatory is referred to as prison.the souls here referred were those who perished durind Noah's flood.

Papal infallibility does not mean the pope cannot sin.It simply refers that once a pope is under the influence of the holy spirit to pronounce matters of faith he cannot be wrong.His infallibility does not mean he is not susceptible like every other human to sin

Penance is simply asking God for forgiveness of our sins and making restitution.how on earth is that not on the bible.This is a basic teaching of the christian faith and applies to all denominationa even though some might not call it penance but the same principle applies

Intercession by saints simply means asking saints to pray for us which is another fundamental christian principle.The much I know even you pentecostals ask your pastors to pray 4 u
Marian shrine is a shrine devoted to intercessary prayers by the virgin mary.it is just like redemption camp is devoted to those who go to Adeboye to pray 4 them abi is redemption camp in the bible as well

I still find it amazing that someone who grew up in a catholic family would ask where the blessed sacrament is mentioned in the biblem

The bible explicitly states in luke 22:14-20 and several other passages that Jesus instituted the eucharist a memorial of his sacrifice.The blessed sacrament is Jesus consecrated 4rm bread during the mass

Chukwudi, what I want you to do for me is to proof with the bible to support all your Catholic doctrine you stated above....each with the bible reference not your opinion.

I'm waiting!

I still insist you are being mischievous.The contents of the roman missal r there quranic passages?

The daily readings contains bible passages from OT,NT,psalms and gospels which are carefully selected to ensure the entire bible is covered every 3 years.

Do you mean to tell me you read up the entire bible every day in ur new churches?

Chukwudi, what I want you to do for me is to proof with the bible to support all your Catholic doctrine you stated above....each with the bible reference not your opinio[quote][/quote].


Did u not see the bible passages and inference in the post I posted or what else do u want?


Back to tithes I know 2 well that jews tithed in the OT and it's significance then .Could you please use d bible to show me where xtians tithed or where asked to pay tithe.St paul repeatedly mentioned in the I thes 2:7-13,2nd Thes 3:6-12 and several other bible passages that he had to work for his own upkeep.Why did paul not demand tithes 4rm his congregation.Maybe Pastor Eddie cude is more knowlegeable than paul in christian doctrines

chukwudi44: I still insist you are being mischievous.The contents of the roman missal r there quranic passages?

The daily readings contains bible passages from OT,NT,psalms and gospels which are carefully selected to ensure the entire bible is covered every 3 years.

Do you mean to tell me you read up the entire bible every day in ur new churches?

My friend the preaching is elaborate enough to touch each passage that is related to the topic shared that day. Also Pentecosatals are encouraged to read the word of God daily and not only on Sundays! My guy you don't even know the truth in God's word, the old testament law says you should not bow down for any image in the likeness of things in heaven or earth, why do you people bow down to Communion, Statues, Altar, Crucifix, and any form of image in the your church........IDOLATRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wriggle out of that!

Shalom.

Now over to you pentecostals

Show we in the bible it is written that a man can wake up one morning and claim God asked him to open a church

For those who claim to tithe is ur tithing based on biblical tithe as contained in deut 14: 22-29 where in the bible was tithe paid with money? Where in d bible was tithe paid weekly or monthly?if you must tithe why not follow biblical principles.

Where in the bible do we have female pastors/bishops? Where in the bible do we have family churches.where in the bible is a pastor meant to fly a private jet while others r going hungry?

So you think catholic preachings r not elaborate enough? May be you were among those who sleep during mass.Are you really sayings catholics are not encouraged to read bible passages daily?

You must have been a sunday_sunday catholic who never attended weekday masses nor belonged to any pious society.

On carved images why don't you also criticize moses and God for making the bronze serpent,winged creatures and other carved images in the old temple afterall moses gave us d commandments.

What the bible actually says is do not make idols and not images since both terms do not mean the same thing.The images we have in the RCC like those of the old temple r not idols since there r not worshipped

chukwudi44: Now over to you pentecostals

Show we in the bible it is written that a man can wake up one morning and claim God asked him to open a church

For those who claim to tithe is ur tithing based on biblical tithe as contained in deut 14: 22-29 where in the bible was tithe paid with money? Where in d bible was tithe paid weekly or monthly?if you must tithe why not follow biblical principles.

Where in the bible do we have female pastors/bishops? Where in the bible do we have family churches.where in the bible is a pastor meant to fly a private jet while others r going hungry?

Guy leave issues alone face the real fact here. Tithe is in the bible and during that period there is nothing like money as such...it is the advent of money that made is possible for payment to made in currency. Now there are jobs and people get paid in currency so you have to pay your tithe in money....it is the jet age there is no longer trade by batter. Just like you said now people would have said same of Paul when he met Christ on the was to Damascus and which change him and made him preacher of the faith he once condemn. About family churches it shows that you don't even read the bible...what a shame! In the Act of the Apostles we saw that Christians meet daily to break bread from house to house...(Act 2:46)And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.

Guy see the Acts of the Apostles and you'll find that women played their role too Dorcas and others!

About the jet plane well if you can buy one for your Rev. Father too go ahead!

Ol boy u r d one who is not reading ur bible.who told you money didn't exist in biblical times.Deut 14:25 tells you d condition for conversion of your tithe goods 2 money.money had always existed right from ancient times but people never paid tithes with it.

My guy when I talk about family church what I mean is this Pastor chris is in charge of the church in Nigeria ,in south africa his wife holds sway while his brother ken is in charge of the US branch.or Ben Idahosa dies n his wife takes over

This is not what was practised in the bible passage you quoted

About

[/quote]t[quote]

he jet plane well if you can buy one for your Rev. Father too go ahead!




About the marian shrines and statutes u can as well get one for your pastors

chukwudi44: Ol boy u r d one who is not reading ur bible.who told you money didn't exist in biblical times.Deut 14:25 tells you d condition for conversion of your tithe goods 2 money.money had always existed right from ancient times but people never paid tithes with it.

My guy when I talk about family church what I mean is this Pastor chris is in charge of the church in Nigeria ,in south africa his wife holds sway while his brother ken is in charge of the US branch.or Ben Idahosa dies n his wife takes over

This is not what was practised in the bible passage you quoted

Guy I am not a fan or member of Pastor Chris so whatever you tend to know about him does not change the fact that you Catholics needs to allow Jesus in your life and leave this traditional demonic sacrifices alone! Please read your bible and stop expressing your opinion here. See Moses and his brother Aaron together with all his brethren - The Levites were all selected and ordained by God to be of service to Him and serving at the alter and bearing the Ark of Covenant........FAMILY CHURCH!! The First Church in the wilderness.....

Guy did you even read the bible this morning before leaving the house or you just said the rosary alone!

May God save you as he saved me!

Shalom

It is obvious u r just aguing for arguing sake.I presented bible passages to you and you claim there r merely my own opinions.

Your arguments are not making sense any more.You don't even address the points I raised

chukwudi44: It is obvious u r just aguing for arguing sake.I presented bible passages to you and you claim there r merely my own opinions.

Your arguments are not making sense any more.You don't even address the points I raised

O'l boy point you raise? I address you in all of them I pointed you to Moses and Aaron and the others who are family..... So what are you now saying? I was once like you - looking for bible passages that doesn't exist to support the Catholic faith. Guy the issue of money is so strong this day because we all run a currency driven economy even in your church why do you give offering in cash? In the bible times offering was given in material things and not money, my dear you cannot do anything in this world economy without MONEY. If you like on Sunday carry a tuber of yam to the church as your offering then you'll be the laughing stock of the church!

Take it or leave it you don't know anything in the bible, for it is hidden to the lost! Sorry if I offend you.

@ Johnnie ZM. Its obvious that you are out to attack the catholic church. I just SMH at what you have been saying. You claim to be a former catholic, but all what you say are far from the truth. You said catholics dont read the bible, the 1st & 2nd reading, psalm and Gospel that is been read during mass, where is it taken from?. You again said that we worship Mary, starting with the mass or any other catholic prayer, plz tell me how/where we worship Mary?. With the issue of purgatory, plz read 1 John 5:16 and tell me your own point of view. About asking saints(dead christians) to pray for us, have you not in your life ever asked some1 to pray for you in other to succeed in something?, and remember, our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacoh, all of whom are dead, what does that mean to you?. With regards to exhuming of deads saints, have you 4goten in the O.T where a man was brought back to life just because his body touched the bone of a dead prophet?, i guess you also know that Mary magdalene and co were about entering the tomb of Jesus the day He ressurected. Does that ring a bell to you? or will say its occultic. About the image, is the ark of convenant not an image?, what abt the bronze snake molded by Moses?. No 1 knows the true church, but as for me, i remain a catholic till death. Moreover its not your church that will lead you to heaven, just live an upright life. Peace be with you.

They are running away from confession. Thats just it