Arnold1:

I consider a woman who is happily married and taking care of her family waaayyy more successful than these so-called
"strong independent black women".

hit the nail on the head

Speak for yourself - no woman intimidates me.

Debosky

Firstly I have to admit I think you would have a fight on yr hand if  other women read yr last post

who says you cant be sucessful have children and have a loving 'respected' home all can be done but i feel  cracks will appear if the male partner feels insecure if his partner is earning more then him no matter what she does it human nature well in aover 90% of cases and you can research if if you like.

I personally think a women tied behind the cooker kitchen sink went out with the dark ages however i can see no reason being successful means being ignorant and arrogant.

Im sure you would choose a woman who is right for you if youhavnt already and who you are comfortable with.
if she is happy staying at home that is respected.

But i still think my debate stands. And im sure any women if they were reading this debate will have a lot to say

David Dylan
You have posted yr views its a debate not on here for personal critques as it is a general debate from both sides of the fence it should be kept as such thankyou

pilgrim 1 thankyou for your reply yr right maybe not as high as 99%

But I also feel if there is an equal medium and respect on both sides it will be a successful relasionship

again you try to paint it as if I'm interested in women who 'stay at home' or were 'tied to the stove', that is not it at all, but a woman who thinks all this money/power and achievement is more important and can replace a fulfilling family life is not complete in my view.

I don't begrudge or look down on such a person, but I definitely know something is missing, and I have no apologies.

Whether women (or men) want to admit it or not, procreating and raising your kids is the highest and most rewarding opportunity any human being could ever have - money, power and the rest don't even come close.

Your postulation is still shaky - are you talking simply of a successful woman who understands family roles or one who thinks because she is financially stable she doesn't 'need' to play her appropriate role in a relationship?

I've been around successful women all my life, its never been an issue, and as long as a man is able to meet the responsibilities to his wife and family, whatever the wife earns in excess is simply a blessing - more cash to take that vacation with, or to pay off the mortgage sooner! Bottom line is : everybody wins.

Seeing it as a competition between male and female is wrong ab initio, its such a viewpoint that leads to the thinking that some are intimidated or scared by someone who has apparently 'beaten' them at the race.

no one is saying successful means ignorant and arrogant, but if such arrogance and arrogation of roles and authority arise because of this 'financial independence' then such a woman is of no use to me in a relationship sense, let her stay single or do whatever she pleases.

Debosky

thankyou for yr reply , respected and artigulate response to clarify my self i did mean a succesful women who understands key important values in all parts of relasionships which is vast i was not promoting the arrogant/bulshy women or (man) if its allowed on this topic of disscussion.

Personaly any person who feels because they have 'financial authority' is better then anyone has certain issues

[size=18pt]Just a reminder: davidyland@yahoo is a fake and his/her responses are NOT from me.
Thank you. [/size]

you better get the other person removed then, as anyone can make that mistake,

Why should an independent woman try to become dependent on a man for any reason?

She certainly doesn't need to depend on any man's love, affection, romance, partnership, etc, because she is independent.

Most men, however look for mutually benefitial dependency with their wives or partners, so not just Nigerian men are intimidated by strong independent black woman, I know for sure that Italian, Indian, Japanese, and Mexican men are also intimidated by crazy independent women.

Nobody needs an independent partner. Most people (men and women) need partners for mutually satisfying dependency.

I have to say that this claim is just wrong. Plain and simple. There might be personal experiences where it may have been the case but its no universal principle.

If you look around most, if not all, the most acclaimed Nigerian woman are all married. Irrespective of looks, character or status. So are their husbands, exceptional and special men?

In all truth Nigerian men love a challenge. Be it a good looking, intelligent or successful woman. They wont shy away from that.

In all truth, not everyone is fit for marriage. Some men and women may be successful but lets be honest they are badly behaved and very unpleasant to be around. Some things that drive people to be independent and strong may also rob them of social graces and courtesy.

Colloquially, a strong independent black woman in the US means a 30-40s year old female with 6 children from 6 different fathers.

I don't know what that term means in the UK, but when someone tells you she is an independent strong woman--- you get the message!

Intimidation becomes an understatement, flying out of the window sounds more appropriate for most men.

niajaking

Thankyou for your response and your own personal view on this debate, a couple of questions where did you get your facts from with regards to the american women with 6 kids 6 diffrent partners

It questionable your reponse to the debate,

cyclone 5

im sitting on the fence with your response will say i agree with 45% of what you wrote but again your personal opinion is accepted

I agree most Nigerian men wont shy away from such women regardless of their status BUT when the crunch comes to the crunch and he feels he wants to start laying down the laws cracks appear as the saying goes 'you cant hold a strong woman down'

Of course there are women married but at what cost?

Also if you click down a debate has been raised and clarified on arrogance and ignorance pertaining to wealth by both men and women,

Cyclone5:

I have to say that this claim is just wrong. Plain and simple. There might be personal experiences where it may have been the case but its no universal principle.

If you look around most, if not all, the most acclaimed Nigerian woman are all married. Irrespective of looks, character or status. So are their husbands, exceptional and special men?

In all truth Nigerian men love a challenge. Be it a good looking, intelligent or successful woman. They wont shy away from that.

In all truth, not everyone is fit for marriage. Some men and women may be successful but lets be honest they are badly behaved and very unpleasant to be around. Some things that drive people to be independent and strong may also rob them of social graces and courtesy.

@ Cyclone , i couldnt have put it better, Clap clap!!

hi again ocean 2
ag
again i represent my argument please excuse the slight diviation from sucessful/independant,

a sucessful strong independent man can hold his own against the sucessful independent woman

a bog standard normal guy who is working on a lower wage and not career orintated or motivated does not have a chance, he will ALWAYS be fighting his corner,

and also i don't think ones enviroment has anything to do with how they behavr or proceed in their career its the individual

and YES NIGERIAN MEN ARE NOTORIOUS for having extra material affairs when there married

im sure you know im right mr , but i must say i admire yr attempt to stand strong for the brothers

@ britgirlee,
sucess to a great extent determines ur independence! "a sucessful strong independent man can hold his own against the sucessful independent woman

a bog standard normal guy who is working on a lower wage and not career orintated or motivated does not have a chance, he will ALWAYS be fighting his corner,
". Now ur debate is taking shape!! u rightfully said a normal run of teh mill guy who is struggling topay his bills would find it more diffcult to cope with a successful woman becos of his complex not becos he is black or nigerian! i put it to u if u were a director in company would u marry a driver, please be honest when u are answering. i know of a white lady who married her nigerian driver while she was on contract with Shell. how many nigerian ladies woudl do that

like Cyclone put it a confident well educatedd nigerian guy doesnt shy away from a challenge! nigerian men are famous for their infidelity? Girl, where did u get ur stats from? let's be objective here, dont wihite dudes cheat too.

Back to ur topic, i think u shoudl define specifically what calibre of nigerian men you are refering to?

Nice topic and even if i disagree on some points, the debate has been eye opening

naijaking1:

Colloquially, a strong independent black woman in the US means a 30-40s year old female with 6 children from 6 different fathers.

I don't know what that term means in the UK, but when someone tells you she is an independent strong woman--- you get the message!

Intimidation becomes an understatement, flying out of the window sounds more appropriate for most men.

You got me holding my ribs here.

Colloquially, a strong independent black woman in the US means a 30-40s year old female with 6 children from 6 different fathers.

Sigh!!!

men want a woman like Proverbs 31 right? Good. can we compare those days with today? you want a woman who works to bring in money, care for children, the home, meet your emotional needs whenever you want it etc etc.

Ha! Aha!! Abeg Artificial Insemination pls.

omoge:

Sigh!!!

men want a woman like Proverbs 31 right? Good. can we compare those days with today? you want a woman who works to bring in money, care for children, the home, meet your emotional needs whenever you want it etc etc.

Ha! Aha!! Abeg Artificial Insemination please. 

Thank God for reproductive science!!!! Thank God for sperm banks.  Ladies, just harvest some good "eggs" freeze them for later use and throw out any fool that qualifies out of the house, into the streets where he belongs--homeless!!!!!

By now most females should have had enough sex in this life time to do without the abuse of being with an irresponsible man.  Just stick to companionship---pay as you go romance--- and let the dog stay in the doggout where it belongs.  Having no man at all is better than having a useless one.  Thank God for small mercies--no need to search anymore.    A lot of crap out there.  I look at some women and just have to remember them in ma prayers.  Will never put up with such.  All in the mighty name of marriage--a woman will put up with an slowpoke for a husband?

@Topic because most Nigerian men are insecure, lazy, lack proper upbringing, stupid, useless and lack a sense of direction. Only about 10% are normal for about 20% normal Nigerian women. Most Nigerian men would rather seat down at home with shrivelled dickies and pot bellies--looking for who will give them "a monthly income".  Idiots!!!!!

almondjoy:

@Topic because most Nigerian men are insecure, lazy, lack proper upbringing, stupid, useless and lack a sense of direction. Seat down at home with shrivelled dickies and pot bellies--looking for who will give them "a monthly income". Idiots!!!!!

why are you people bothering us with topics like this when you have such an oppinion of "most" Nigerian men? Its not like we are harrasing u to marry us. . . you are free NOT to. Please by all means have 7 children with 7 different sperm donors and live on ur own.

davidylan:

why are you people bothering us with topics like this when you have such an oppinion of "most" Nigerian men? Its not like we are harrasing u to marry us. . . you are free NOT to. Please by all means have 7 children with 7 different sperm donors and live on your own.

Why you dey vex?

Something against "strong" Nigerian "black" women?   You are not a Nigerian woman so you will not understand the dismal options most are faced with in the hands of  "most" Nigerian men.  Unless you choose to close your eyes to the reality. 

Well, if a Nigerian man can be an Abiola or "Ali Baba and the forty thieves" from 40 different women--used as "carriages" of polygamy, nothing wrong with a Nigerian woman having "7 Brides for 7 Brothers"!!!  Simple!  Who be mumu?

Very interesting thread!

A woman with a good job , independent, that is no big deal, but ladies wipe your feet befoe you enter your home. At home you are a wife and mother.
I think it is oftern independent , strong women who cannot handle the combination, wife and career women

mutter:

A woman with a good job , independent, that is no big deal, but ladies wipe your feet befoe you enter your home. At home you are a wife and mother.
I think it is oftern independent , strong women who cannot handle the combination, wife and career women

My sister abeg na you biko!

almondjoy:

Why you dey vex?

Vex ke? I'm just reminding you that you have other options besides us devils.

@Debosky.

You are trying to be magnanimous and maintain 'the natural order of things' at the same time.
There is a tension between both positions to be honest.

You dont mind successful women but if that makes them think they can boss you around. . .
Well you have already bared your mind to be honest.

I can imagine you just ready to pounce if you notice any sign of your woman usurping your 'natural' position
as the 'head' of the household should she have proved successful.

As long as you maintain the mindset harking to a 'natural order of things', it derives that you will play power politics in
your household.

Look lets be honest, how many Nigerian/African men would, if given the chance come back as an African woman? Not many I guess, why? They know how Africa percieves the girl child as less than, unequal, burdensom, less capable. They would never ever want to switch places with us. Yet, because they benefit from the current system, they will defend it to the hilt.
Bible this and that, I don't see any one of Abraham, Isaac, Jesus, Moses treating women the way the African culture often encourages men to. So please leave the Bible, God and the so conveniently called "natural order" out of it.

Do you honestly think that the practices, which have been born out of  this whole "women are below men"  attitude in Africa and around the world is actually  pleasing to the God who created women?

Genital mutiliation
Domestic violence
Prostitution
Rape 
selling the daughter to the highest bidder
Killing of female children
"Honor" killings
Deprivation of widows rights
Binding of the womens feet.
Forced marriage, through kidnap or other means.

Feel free to add to the list.


Some women don't understand the place of men, but how many men actually think about what women were put here for? Do they really care, unless its for some self centred gain.

How many crimes do you know that are committed against men BY VIRTUE OF THEIR SEX? ??

Yet, take a look back at my list of crimes above, which tend to be committed against women, by virtue of our sex.
Then you have the cheek to talk about a man being the head/protector of women?, Yet many of your number take it as a right to actually harm us.

I'm not talking about the good men, I'm talking about the rest of y'all.

Some women don't understand the place of men, but how many men actually think about what women were put here for? Do they really care, unless its for some self centred ga

What's the practical relevance of this?

londoner:

Look lets be honest, hoiw many Nigerian/African men would, if given the chance come back as an African woman? Not many I guess, why? They know how Africa percieves the girl child as less than, unequal, burdensom, less capable. They would never ever want to switch places with us. Yet, because they benefit from the current system, they will defend it to the hilt.
Bible this and that, I don't see any one of Abraham, Isaac, Jesus, Moses treating women the way the African culture often encourages men to. So please leave the Bible, God and the so conveniently called "natural order" out of it.

Do you honestly think that the practices, which have been born out of this whole "women are below men" attitude in Africa and around the world is actually pleasing to the God who created women?

Genital mutiliation
Domestic violence
Prostitution
Rape
selling the daughter to the highest bidder
Killing of female children
"Honor" killings
Deprivation of widows rights
Binding of the womens feet.
Forced marriage, through kidnap or other means.

Feel free to add to the list.


Some women don't understand the place of men, but how many men actually think about what women were put here for? Do they really care, unless its for some self centred gain.

How many crimes do you know that are committed against men BY VIRTUE OF THEIR SEX? ??

Yet, take a look back at my list of crimes above, which tend to be committed against women, by virtue of our sex.
Then you have the cheek to talk about a man being the head/protector of women?, Yet many of your number take it as a right to actually harm us.

I'm not talking about the good men, I'm talking about the rest of y'all.

Seun beat me to my post - Mr londoner, your point is way off topic.
Again, the topic says "Why are Nigerian men intimidated by strong black women"
Please find a way to tie your post to this topic

Many thanks

@Arnold, when people discuss it can often be taken out to the wider picture, its actually the nature of discourse and one of the advantages of free speech.

If you look at my former post, it dealt with the heading specifically. My second post deals with the wider issues, the thinking behind why a man would take a woman who is successful in his own eyes as something negative. The whole "natural order" crap breeds insecure men, men who are threatened by women who they don't consider to be behind them in some arenas. People mentioned the so called "natural order", my point was a comment on it and what I mentioned is what I consider to be fruit of that thought process.

What I said is true, whichever way you look at it, it may not be a comfortable truth or a convenient one for some , but its the truth no less. The thread title deals with the branch, my post is dealing with the root.

Seun:

What's the practical relevance of this?

Arnold1:

Seun beat me to my post - Mr londoner, your point is way off topic.
Again, the topic says "Why are Nigerian men intimidated by strong black women"
Please find a way to tie your post to this topic

Many thanks

Good point

Do you really want to address the question  WHY Nigerian men are intimidated by successful women or not, you can't answer the question without looking at the thought process of the Nigerian man (well some). Maybe you're really not ready to look, or look that deeply.

Do you think its unrelated to how they are taught to view women in general?
Anyhoo,  If you don't get it, maybe you just have a different view or my view went over your head. Thats fine, thats the nature of discussion.
In fact, in reality others went off topic by discussing their definition of an independent black woman, rather than why they intimidate some Nigerian men.