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Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 7:11pm On May 06, 2013
m_nwankwo:

Thus although the initial volition of those who formed the various movements around the Grail Message was to spread the Grail Message, it did not take long for personal ideas to take foothold and turn the various "Grail" sects into religions. My own perception is that not even one of the various movements formed around the Grail Message are accordingly to the will of GOD. All of them will disintegrate from within.


@ m nwankwo

Thanks for sharing the above perceptions which I view and respect as your personal decision as to the way of proceeding. However, for the benefit of readers in general, I wish to note that Abd-ru-shin (the Author of the Grail Message) permitted Crossbearers to congregate around his person and he also instituted forms of worship which he personally presided over during Hours of Worship & Grail Festivals while he was on earth. Had these actions been totally contrary to the Laws of God, he certainly would not have encouraged them. He would simply have recorded his Message and kept everyone at a distance.

The following also shows an excerpt from the Forward to a Periodical which Abd-ru-shin reportedly issued in 1927:
"....In many places, "Independent Associations devoted to the thoughts of my lectures" are being formed, in order by working together to delve ever more deeply into the Truths of the great Creation, thereby also to recognise the Will of the Creator aright.
Although I joyfully hail the associations, I nevertheless cannot lead them nor can I take part in them.......
I must be, and remain, free in what I have to say!".

Would he have joyfully hailed the Associatios if their formation were contrary to the laws of God? Certainly not!

Also, Irmingard the Pure Lily (a part of the Trigon in whom an 'Unsubstantiate Spark' had been sunk) left Crossbearers with a legacy that was summed up as follows: "Stand together, serve together, thank GOD the Lord". This legacy certainly does not negate the idea of working together in a Group or Movement towards the achievement of a shared spiritual goal.

I believe that what is definitely not advisable is for an individual to abandone his/her own two limbs for crutches in the form of over-reliance or over-dependence on other people or organisations in the quest for spiritual development.
Regards and stay blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by mnwankwo(m): 9:48pm On May 06, 2013
shinealight:


@ m nwankwo

Thanks for sharing the above perceptions which I view and respect as your personal decision as to the way of proceeding. However, for the benefit of readers in general, I wish to note that Abd-ru-shin (the Author of the Grail Message) permitted Crossbearers to congregate around his person and he also instituted forms of worship which he personally presided over during Hours of Worship & Grail Festivals while he was on earth. Had these actions been totally contrary to the Laws of God, he certainly would not have encouraged them. He would simply have recorded his Message and kept everyone at a distance.

The following also shows an excerpt from the Forward to a Periodical which Abd-ru-shin reportedly issued in 1927:
"....In many places, "Independent Associations devoted to the thoughts of my lectures" are being formed, in order by working together to delve ever more deeply into the Truths of the great Creation, thereby also to recognise the Will of the Creator aright.
Although I joyfully hail the associations, I nevertheless cannot lead them nor can I take part in them.......
I must be, and remain, free in what I have to say!".

Would he have joyfully hailed the Associatios if their formation were contrary to the laws of God? Certainly not!

Also, Irmingard the Pure Lily (a part of the Trigon in whom an 'Unsubstantiate Spark' had been sunk) left Crossbearers with a legacy that was summed up as follows: "Stand together, serve together, thank GOD the Lord". This legacy certainly does not negate the idea of working together in a Group or Movement towards the achievement of a shared spiritual goal.

I believe that what is definitely not advisable is for an individual to abandone his/her own two limbs for crutches in the form of over-reliance or over-dependence on other people or organisations in the quest for spiritual development.
Regards and stay blessed.

Hi Shinealight. Thanks for your response. Why do you think that Abd-ru-shin will hail associations formed around the Grail Message and yet refuse to be part of them or lead any of them? Abd-ru-shin never established any movement nor did he encourage the formation of such movements. I have in my previous mail clearly stated that there is nothing wrong in principle in coming together with the goal of informing other human beings of the existence of the Grail Message but the reality is that human beings have always introduced there personal opinions and prejudices to the Truth. Even with the highest spiritual guidance, the human spirit is unreliable.The Grail Message has everything that all creatures need for their salvation. Abdrushin brought the Truth in the Grail Message and that is enough for the salvation of men. If people want to form associations or movements, they are free to do so but they must realize that these associations or movements does not lift a man even one step to God.

Now, Grail acts are absolutely independent of associations or movements for they originate in the will of GOD. The transmission of the power of GOD during Grail acts simply requires one who is blessed with the ability to carry out such acts and a recipient who is inwardly open to the reception of the power of GOD. Such acts can happen within and outside Grail temples or hall of worship. It can happen in a dream, a beach, in the living room or even in a church if the conditions I mentioned above are met.

The dissensions among the various Grail Movements is a sign that these are purely personality cults and nothing more. If they genuinely hold the Grail Message as the Truth, why do they quibble and dispute among themselves? The matters which these various groups dispute about have nothing to do with living in the sense of the laws of GOD. My perception is that the leaders of the various Grail Movements are leading men to themselves and not to the Truth or Grail Message. Even sacred matters like Grail acts have become trivialized that the leaders of the various movements have arrogated to themselves the power to decide which Grail acts are genuine and those that are not. A Grail act performed by the leader of Grail Movement "A" is declared null and void by the leader of Grail Movement "B". When men begin to make decisions which only GOD can make, the end is near. Stay blessed.

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Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 10:44pm On May 06, 2013
@ Justcool

Hello Justcool. Thought I should seize the opportunity of this Bank Holiday to put down the perception about Lucifer that I promised in my last post. Here it goes:

That which was able to take on form first in the Divine Substantiate was the Primordial Queen Elizabeth, Who is also the Primordial Queen of Womanhood. Next we have the Archangels and the Primordial Queen Elizabeth contributes in the formation of the Archangels. These are designated as the four columns of the Throne of GOD. The Archangels take on male form and have wings which swing totally and completely in the Will of the Almighty. The Archangels are flaming columns that swing down and upwards again. The Primordial Queen's activity is directed downwards and that of the Archangels upwards. The Archangels swing completely in the Will of the Almighty and their activity is directed completely to the Almighty.

When we hear of the Archangels, e.g. Gabriel or Michael being in Creation, it is not them but their radiation. They remain in their place swinging totally in the Will of the Almighty in a flaming column.

For this instance, let us see Lucifer as a radiation of Light which was sent down from Divine Substantiate.

Now, in Divine Substantiate, there is also Spiritual Substantiate. One can picture a strong radiation of Light sent from the Divine Substantiate to Subsequent Creation. The spirit-germs in Subsequent Creation were stagnant. This stagnation took place in gross matter. The substantiate (animistic) beings in exixtence at that time, seen as gods by the spirits, could not set these stagnant spirits in motion. Even the Fore-runners were not able to get the indolent spirit-germs into motion. Help was needed and as such a strong radiation of Light was sent from the Divine Substantiate as a help. Lucifer was this radiation of Light to penetrate Subsequent Creation in order to get these spirits swinging in the Will of the Almighty. The name Lucifer means Bringer of Light.

This Light radiation was able to penetrate Subsequent Creation and as it has spiritual in it, so in Subsequent Creation it became spiritual. Lucifer came as a direct radiation but he did not go through all the intervening planes and he came outside Subsequent Creation. He could thus influence the spirits in Subsequent Creation. Because of his distance from the Divine, Lucifer developed his own volition whereby he wanted to take charge contrary to the nature of an Angel which is to just carry out but not to be the one to determine. As such, he developed his own personal volition while the spirit-germs also had their own personal volition, therefore as the strongest he could influence these spirit-germs' volition. As a result, Lucifer lost the Divine Substantiate radiation connection which he had and became the strongest spirit.

It is further noted that volitions can take form. In the case of Lucifer, first his volition took on form as the monster in the Book of Revelations, as the Antichrist and also as the form of sin. When in the Book of Revelations the picture is transmitted that the child in the lap of the Queen of Heaven was attacked, this took place in the Primordial Spiritual plane. The monster was Lucifer and Archangel Michael was sent down to fight this monster and expel him fron the seven heavens which is to say from the Primordial Creation and Creation. From then, Lucifer's influence could be felt in Subsequent Creation. This anger that Lucifer had because of his banishment he concentrated on the human spirits. Lucifer was thrown into the abyss and the Antichrist and the animal (sin) were killed. The forms that the volition of Lucifer took on could be killed by Parsifal. Lucifer himself could not be killed by Parsifal. Parsifal could only bind and banish him. Parsifal could not kill Lucifer since Lucifer is eternal. The reason for Lucifer's eternal life is explained through the logical understanding of the nature of the radiations of God. As long as God is in existence, His eternal radiations are eternal and unavoidable. These rays emanating from God that are unavoidable and eternal gave rise to the existence of the Archangels. Lucifer came into existence out of the volition of an Archangel and as such will remain eternal so long as the radiation of God remain.

So much for the perception I spoke about. As I had noted previously, this has not originated from me but is from a source that I consider sacrosanct but not infallible. Readers are therefore enjoined to examine what has been written thoroughly with their intuition. I have no doubt Justcool, M_Nwankwo and a few others will do just that in any case!
Regards and stay blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 12:03am On May 07, 2013
@ M_Nwankwo

The Grail Movement definitely existed during the time of Abd-ru-shin on earth. The reason for his refusal to lead the Associations had also been given in the cited quotation. Furthermore, what he had to say about the Grail Movement in answer to Question 7 in "Questions and Answers By Abd-ru-shin" was certainly not a condemnation or a disavowal. The Grail Movement was also actively nurtured and sustained by Maria and Irmingard who were part of the Trigon and who dedicated their lives to the furtherance of the Work of Abd-ru-shin.

Having noted the above, one should hasten to add that in any endeavour where human beings are involved, there will always be disagreements on points of view, perceptions, etc. This is inevitable. However, these are not good enough reasons to throw away the baby with the bath-water!

Finally, I would advise every serious seeker and reader of the Grail Message to also read the book (Questions & Answers) in addition to reading the Grail Message itself as the answers given to various questions provide a succinct summary of the concepts explained in the Grail Message. Readers resident in the UK can obtain a copy through this link:
http://www.gapc-uk.org/questionsandanswers.php

I wish you all Strength!
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by mnwankwo(m): 1:51am On May 07, 2013
shinealight: @ M_Nwankwo

The Grail Movement definitely existed during the time of Abd-ru-shin on earth. The reason for his refusal to lead the Associations had also been given in the cited quotation. Furthermore, what he had to say about the Grail Movement in answer to Question 7 in "Questions and Answers By Abd-ru-shin" was certainly not a condemnation or a disavowal. The Grail Movement was also actively nurtured and sustained by Maria and Irmingard who were part of the Trigon and who dedicated their lives to the furtherance of the Work of Abd-ru-shin.

Having noted the above, one should hasten to add that in any endeavour where human beings are involved, there will always be disagreements on points of view, perceptions, etc. This is inevitable. However, these are not good enough reasons to throw away the baby with the bath-water!

Finally, I would advise every serious seeker and reader of the Grail Message to also read the book (Questions & Answers) in addition to reading the Grail Message itself as the answers given to various questions provide a succinct summary of the concepts explained in the Grail Message. Readers resident in the UK can obtain a copy through this link:
http://www.gapc-uk.org/questionsandanswers.php

I wish you all Strength!

Hi again Shinealight. That the Grail Movement existed during the time of Abdrushin is not in dispute. What is in dispute is whether the Grail Movement is according to the will of GOD. I maintain that like all sects, it is not the will of GOD to form movements around the truth or truth bringers.I do not make any distinction between the Grail movement and any other church, sect or religion that is formed around the truth or truth bringers. Abdrushin answer to question 64 (Question and Answers)on the Grail Message and the sects in my perception applies to every movement or sect including the Grail Movement.

No, I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water. What I trying to convey is that Grail Message, and Grail acts stands independent of the Grail Movement. I do not believe that the calling of Maria and Irmingard had anything to do with "nurturing and sustaining" the Grail Movement. Abdrushin did not come to earth to establish a movement, it is not part of his mission. Neither is it the mission of Irmingard and Maria to "nurture, sustain or establish" the Grail Movement. My own personal experience of the events at that time is that like Abdrushin both Maria and Irmingard should not lead or be part of any movement or sect.

No, the fragmentation of the Grail Movement is not just because of disagreements on points of view or perception but because of struggle for power and authority by its leaders and called ones. The founder of Brazilan Grail Movement (Odem De Graal)broke way from the Grail Movement in Vomperberg because she did not recognize the authority of Irmingard and Alexander. The same for the french and swiss factions and the same blue print have been followed by later day break-way factions. When envoys, apostles and disciples dispute among themselves on who is the genuine representative of the Light, one does not need to be a seer to sense that something is fundamentally wrong.Stay blessed.

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Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 11:32am On May 07, 2013
m_nwankwo:

... What is in dispute is whether the Grail Movement is according to the will of GOD. I maintain that like all sects, it is not the will of GOD to form movements around the truth or truth bringers.I do not make any distinction between the Grail movement and any other church, sect or religion that is formed around the truth or truth bringers.


...... What I trying to convey is that Grail Message, and Grail acts stands independent of the Grail Movement. I do not believe that the calling of Maria and Irmingard had anything to do with "nurturing and sustaining" the Grail Movement. Abdrushin did not come to earth to establish a movement, it is not part of his mission. Neither is it the mission of Irmingard and Maria to "nurture, sustain or establish" the Grail Movement. My own personal experience of the events at that time is that like Abdrushin both Maria and Irmingard should not lead or be part of any movement or sect.


Well, I believe that nobody on earth, past or present, is in a position to know the Will of God better than the Trigon of Abd-ru-shin, Maria and Irmingard. I therefore think a little humility and modesty is called for when discussing these matters!

Further on in the quotation I cited earlier, Abd-ru-shin himself reportedly stated as follows:

"....Since I cannot therefore bind myself to the associations, while indeed recognising their beneficial result for many an individual, I created out of the necessity for me to remain alone 'Der Ruf' as mediator between all readers and associations. In it they are given the opportunity to exchange information and wishes. Space will always be kept available for these purposes free of charge. May 'Der Ruf' awaken many souls, bring enlightenment, and with it peace and progress, to all serious seekers!"

If Abd-ru-shin himself stated that he recognised the beneficial result of the Associations for many an individual, then who are we to say it is contrary to the Will of God? Are we in a position know the Will of God better than him?

Of course, you are quite right in saying that the Grail Message stands on its own. There is no question about that whatsoever. One who accepts the Grail Message as the Word of Truth does not have to be a part of the Grail Movement.
The Grail Acts were instituted by Abd-ru-shin himself while on earth. The Disciples/Apostles and other Called Ones are spiritually chosen to mediate the 'Power' to those who ask for it. Note that I said 'spiritually chosen' not appointed or elected by men on the basis of erudition or being scholarly brilliant. Again no-one is compelled to recognise or accept those who have been so chosen to mediate this Power. Everyone is free to go his/her own way as s/he pleases.

The possibility of participating in Grail Acts, joining others in a co-ordinated effort in the Spread of the Message and affording Crossbearers the opportunity of interaction and mutual exchange of perceptions are the activities that those who choose to be part of the 'Grail Movement' undertake to do. Joining the Grail Movement is not an avowal of the Grail Message. Indeed there are many who have embraced the Message but are not part of any Grail Movement but that is not to say that the Movement does not have its beneficial aspects or that it is against the Will of God.

Again, the short-comings and character faults of men which manifest in vanity, conceit or inordinate ambition to be famous or to be well-regarded among peers, etc are a universal occurrence in all human endeavours and interactions. This cannot and should not be allowed to prevent/abort a serious volition from being transformed into deed. To allow this is to give victory to the Darkness and its minions who never wish for anything good or noble to take root and blossom.
Regards and stay blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 1:21pm On May 07, 2013
shinealight: We also learned about the Seer who was shown clearly the danger that was to befall the Prince[size=16pt] (name withheld)[/size]

Why are you doing this? Why are you withholding any names? I have, for years on this Forum from time to time advised other adherents of the Grail Message against this curious practice of unnecessary secrecy in certain matters and withholding certain information.

This is a VERY bad practice because it besmirches the Message and its key spiritual history with the toga of secrecy, and this toga of secrecy in turn gives the public to rightfully and reasonably regard it as a secret cult, secret association, occult movement or other such clandestine or unwholesome conglomeration of people and ideas.

You are thus doing a great disservice to the great work of the Author when you seek to "withhold" information regarding him, his work, or any incidents or people in the key spiritual history of his work on Earth.

I know many people who refuse to ever touch the Grail Message because of just this. Whilst I agree that the loss remains theirs, I feel that there is no need to adopt such an attitude which leads people away from, or renders people averse to an invaluable spiritual guide book such as "In the Light of Truth".

I was first given "In the Light of Truth" by a friend of mine back in university and it changed my life. However same friend took it upon himself to adjudge my spiritual readiness for other works by the author, and as such went to great lengths to prevent me from accessing them from him - until I managed to start procuring them myself. I think it is presumptuous for you or any adherent of the Message to take it upon himself to determine who you will disclose information to, and who you would not.

Are you keeping anything secret from the public?
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by mnwankwo(m): 1:22pm On May 07, 2013
Hi Shinealight,
Thanks again for your well reasoned response. I reply as follows:

Well, I believe that nobody on earth, past or present, is in a position to know the Will of God better than the Trigon of Abd-ru-shin, Maria and Irmingard. I therefore think a little humility and modesty is called for when discussing these matters!
Thank you for your advise. My perception is that Abdrushin have already explained the will of GOD in the Grail Message and there is not one sentence from him on the Grail Movement and its benefits. Other citations attributed to Abdrushin but not in the Grail Message are not authoritative for me. Those citations were made within a context and only in that context can it be interpreted. There is nothing wrong in having a loose association of individuals who want to exchange ideas on the Grail Message and inform their fellow men of the existence of the Grail Message. Our exchanges on nairaland is a mirror of they way it should be but if we start to wrap structures and organization around these exchanges, then it becomes a movement, indeed a religion and that in my perception is contrary to the will of GOD. Why will a message that is only addressed to each individual soul have an organization or movement about it?

Further on the quotation I cited earlier, Abd-ru-shin himself reportedly stated as follows:

"....Since I cannot therefore bind myself to the associations, while indeed recognising their beneficial result for many an individual, I created out of the necessity for me to remain alone 'Der Ruf' as mediator between all readers and associations. In it they are given the opportunity to exchange information and wishes. Space will always be kept available for these purposes free of charge. May 'Der Ruf' awaken many souls, bring enlightenment, and with it peace and progress, to all serious seekers!"

If Abd-ru-shin himself stated that he recognised the beneficial result of the Associations for many an individual, then who are we to say it is contrary to the Will of God? Are we in a position know the Will of God better than him?

In another context Abdrushin literally dissociated himself from the Grail Movement and directed that the movement should not continue in whatever form. In 1938, Abdrushin reportedly wrote:
[b]"I serve notice that all subsequent and existing foreign organizations, which are built upon the Grail Teaching, must restrict any subsequent continuation of their activity to a responsible manner within the laws of their land, so that I myself have in no way anything to do with these organizations, and that every mandate given by me in this direction - whether business or of an organizational kind - is to be regarded as expired. No one is authorized to appoint a commission of any kind on my behalf:

- All mandates issued by me of a business or private nature are terminated. Only the full power of attorney for attorney Dr. Karl Polaczek remains intact, which is to be considered authorized decree, keeping with the spirit of my intent.

- I demand that all my former adherents discontinue every community, every collaboration and every activity that could be interpreted as a continuation of the Movement led by me.

- It is my particular wish that all former members of the Grail Settlement in Vomperberg leave that settlement or its vicinity as soon as possible.

- It is necessary to avoid even the appearance as if the Movement is continuing in any form whatsoever.

He who acts against my expressed wishes, acts against me and on his own responsibility.

Innsbruck, July 19, 1938

Oskar Bernhardt (signed by hand)"[/b]

The Grail Acts were instituted by Abd-ru-shin himself while on earth. The Disciples/Apostles and other Called Ones are spiritually chosen to mediate the 'Power' to those who ask for it. Note that I said 'spiritually chosen' not appointed or elected by men on the basis of erudition or being scholarly brilliant. Again no-one is compelled to recognise or accept those who have been so chosen to mediate this Power. Everyone is free to go his/her own way as s/he pleases.

What if those who are "spiritually choosen" were actually not choosen or do you reject that such possiblity exist?. Do you think that Siegfield Bernhardt (leader of one faction), Jurgen Sprick (leader of another faction), Roselis von Saas (ex-leader of yet another faction) will consider those called by the leaders of opposing faction as genuine called ones. Will Siegfield Bernhardt allow Jorgen Sprick to officiate in a festival at Vomperberg, and vice versa?

Again, the short-comings and character faults of men which manifest in vanity, conceit or inordinate ambition to be famous or to be well-regarded among peers, etc are a universal occurrence in all human endeavours and interactions. This cannot and should not be allowed to prevent/abort a serious volition from being transformed into deed. To allow this is to give victory to the Darkness and its minions who never wish for anything good or noble to take root and blossom.

You do not need a movement or an organization to serve GOD and his will. If some people find that belonging to a church, movement or societies helps them to tune in to the will of GOD, then by all mean they should continue with the movements or associations. My point is simple, the salvation of each of us depends on how our activities are in sync with the will of GOD and nothing more. The best way to spread the Grail Message and develop spiritually is to live in the sense of Truth as mediated in the Grail Message. Stay blessed.

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Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 1:36pm On May 07, 2013
m_nwankwo: Hi Shinealight,

In another context Abdrushin literally dissociated himself from the Grail Movement and directed that the movement should not continue in whatever form. In 1938, Abdrushin reportedly wrote:
[b]"I serve notice that all subsequent and existing foreign organizations, which are built upon the Grail Teaching, must restrict any subsequent continuation of their activity to a responsible manner within the laws of their land, so that I myself have in no way anything to do with these organizations, and that every mandate given by me in this direction - whether business or of an organizational kind - is to be regarded as expired. No one is authorized to appoint a commission of any kind on my behalf:

- All mandates issued by me of a business or private nature are terminated. Only the full power of attorney for attorney Dr. Karl Polaczek remains intact, which is to be considered authorized decree, keeping with the spirit of my intent.

- I demand that all my former adherents discontinue every community, every collaboration and every activity that could be interpreted as a continuation of the Movement led by me.

- It is my particular wish that all former members of the Grail Settlement in Vomperberg leave that settlement or its vicinity as soon as possible.

- It is necessary to avoid even the appearance as if the Movement is continuing in any form whatsoever.

He who acts against my expressed wishes, acts against me and on his own responsibility.

Innsbruck, July 19, 1938

Oskar Bernhardt (signed by hand)"[/b]

What was the motivation behind this reported statement? Was it or was it not due to Nazi harrassment? Did it, or did it not originate from security intimidation by the Nazi Regime? Is it possibly the case, or not, that such a statement was made on the express insistence of the Nazi regime? Was Abd-ru-Shin arrested, or not arrested, by the Nazi regime at any point in time with regard to any matters associated thereto?

Look particularly at the line I have highlighted in red. What was that "necessity" or "imperative"?

I would be interested to know.

Also, the answers may have a bearing on your discussion with shinealight.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 1:43pm On May 07, 2013
"It is necessary to avoid even the appearance as if the Movement is continuing in any form whatsoever."

What made this "necessary"? - - -> even to the extreme of being necessary to avoid even the appearance of any continuity of the movement - - -> from whom, or from what institution, was it necessary to avoid such appearance?
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by mnwankwo(m): 1:48pm On May 07, 2013
Deep Sight:

What was the motivation behind this reported statement? Was it or was it not due to Nazi harrassment? Did it, or did it not originate from security intimidation by the Nazi Regime? Is it possibly the case, or not, that such a statement was made on the express insistence of the Nazi regime? Was Abd-ru-Shin arrested, or not arrested, by the Nazi regime at any point in time with regard to any matters associated thereto?

Look particularly at the line I have highlighted in red. What was that "necessity" or "imperative"?

I would be interested to know.

Also, the answers may have a bearing on your discussion with shinealight.

Abdrushin was arrested and prohibited by the Nazi from continuing his work. It is one of the main reasons why he issued the statement. The other reason is also the massive failure of called ones, a failure that shocked Abdrushin to the core. The context is that Abdrushin did revise some of his statements based on prevailing situations as well as the spiritual state of mankind. As always stay blessed.

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Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 1:55pm On May 07, 2013
m_nwankwo:

Abdrushin was arrested and prohibited by the Nazi from continuing his work. It is one of the main reasons why he issued the statement.


As such, the remarks in question should not be taken as any censure of associations, don't you think?

The other reason is also the massive failure of called ones, a failure that shocked Abdrushin to the core. The context is that Abdrushin did revise some of his statements based on prevailing situations as well as the spiritual state of mankind. As always stay blessed.

Does it not seem unlikely that the existence or non existence of such associations would affect the mission of a called one such as to warrant such a strong statement from him? It therefore seems that it was wholely the Nazis behind such a statement from him.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by mnwankwo(m): 2:11pm On May 07, 2013
Deep Sight:

As such, the remarks in question should not be taken as any censure of associations, don't you think?



Does it not seem unlikely that the existence or non existence of such associations would affect the mission of a called one such as to warrant such a strong statement from him? It therefore seems that it was wholely the Nazis behind such a statement from him.

I do not sense it to be so. You have to combine the two main reasons. To have a loose association whose only goal is to spread the Grail Message is the way it should be and that can only happen as long as Abdrushin is there to provide the guidance. The massive failure of called ones made Abdrushin to realize that even with very high spiritual help, the human being is still unreliable. My perception is that as Abdrushin neared his earthly departure, it was very clear to him that without circumspect guidance provided by him, these loose associations will become a movement, sect or religion. Thus my own sensing is that he prohibited the movement in any form both because of the harassment by the Nazi as well as well as as the inability of human beings to carry on with such loose association without transforming it into yet another religion or sect. Stay blessed.

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Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 6:06pm On May 07, 2013
Deep Sight:

...However same friend took it upon himself to adjudge my spiritual readiness for other works by the author, and as such went to great lengths to prevent me from accessing them from him - until I managed to start procuring them myself. I think it is presumptuous for you or any adherent of the Message to take it upon himself to determine who you will disclose information to, and who you would not.

Are you keeping anything secret from the public?

Hello Deep Sight. Thanks for your comments. I understand perfectly what informed those comments but I wish to disabuse your mind about the motive for withholding certain information being to maintain secrecy for the sake of it, or to be condescending towards seekers.

Firstly, from my experience, the key thing that makes the Grail Message unique and special is that nobody tells you what to believe or what you must accept. The Message simply states the Will of God in Creation and it is up to each person to weigh and examine what has been given and see if it strikes a chord of truth within him or not. Everything has to do with the individual's personal recognition and the individual is encouraged to use his God-given intuitive faculty to inwardly perceive what is true and what is not. He thereby comes to recognition gradually through inner experiencing. What he then accepts as being true, he is able to hold on to with unbending conviction.

This is not the case when everything is handed to you without any effort on your part. Most people do not appreciate things unless they have to expend some effort to acquire it. This applies to information, knowledge and what have you. Also, when you have to figure things out through inner experiencing, there is a certain joy that comes with it when recognition finally dawns on you. No one should be denied the joy that comes from such personal recognition!

Secondly, the Bringer of the Message himself has arranged the Work in such a way that knowledge is diffused to the spirit of man gradually and progressively so as not to overload him through premature exposure which may end up straining his delicate faculties. The lectures are arranged in sequence and are meant to be read in sequence in order to facilitate clear understanding as well as spiritual absorption. If your friend sees you trying to jump lectures or to read Volume 3 of the Message before you have even completed Volume 1, it would be right for him to caution you or even deny you access to it. Such action is only to help you and not to be secretive for the sake of it.

In the quotation you cited, I simply used the word 'Prince' because I considered that mentioning his name would be a premature release of information concerning his identity. The information is there for the earnest seeker but the seeker needs to find what he is seeking by expending some effort of his own. Only then will he appreciate what he has found and be prepared to defend what he has laboured to find with everything he has. It might sound hard but it is the best help for the spirit!
Regards and stay blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 4:20pm On May 08, 2013
shinealight:

Hello Deep Sight. Thanks for your comments. I understand perfectly what informed those comments but I wish to disabuse your mind about the motive for withholding certain information being to maintain secrecy for the sake of it, or to be condescending towards seekers.

Firstly, from my experience, the key thing that makes the Grail Message unique and special is that nobody tells you what to believe or what you must accept. The Message simply states the Will of God in Creation and it is up to each person to weigh and examine what has been given and see if it strikes a chord of truth within him or not. Everything has to do with the individual's personal recognition and the individual is encouraged to use his God-given intuitive faculty to inwardly perceive what is true and what is not. He thereby comes to recognition gradually through inner experiencing. What he then accepts as being true, he is able to hold on to with unbending conviction.

This is not the case when everything is handed to you without any effort on your part. Most people do not appreciate things unless they have to expend some effort to acquire it. This applies to information, knowledge and what have you. Also, when you have to figure things out through inner experiencing, there is a certain joy that comes with it when recognition finally dawns on you. No one should be denied the joy that comes from such personal recognition!

Secondly, the Bringer of the Message himself has arranged the Work in such a way that knowledge is diffused to the spirit of man gradually and progressively so as not to overload him through premature exposure which may end up straining his delicate faculties. The lectures are arranged in sequence and are meant to be read in sequence in order to facilitate clear understanding as well as spiritual absorption. If your friend sees you trying to jump lectures or to read Volume 3 of the Message before you have even completed Volume 1, it would be right for him to caution you or even deny you access to it. Such action is only to help you and not to be secretive for the sake of it.

In the quotation you cited, I simply used the word 'Prince' because I considered that mentioning his name would be a premature release of information concerning his identity. The information is there for the earnest seeker but the seeker needs to find what he is seeking by expending some effort of his own. Only then will he appreciate what he has found and be prepared to defend what he has laboured to find with everything he has. It might sound hard but it is the best help for the spirit!
Regards and stay blessed.


Only the bold in your quote above makes sense to me.

I feel that recognition of identities of this or that envoy or personage is neither here nor there in the matter of individual redemption/ salvation. Only the individual's karma/ inner volition/ spiritual standing matter. As such, i still do not see the point in the great secrecy surrounding the identities of this or that personage or envoy. In fact I will go so far as to say it is a sure sign of the development of personality cults amongst adherents / crossbearers. The Authour preached personal responsibility - so it should be - and no one should begin to hold personalities (no matter how exalted) as some sort of secret icon that only the "eleveted" can "recognize".
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 8:35pm On May 08, 2013
Well, I'm glad something at least makes sense to you. That bit alone is enough justification for your friend to have denied you access to some of his books, an action which I'm sure you now appreciate. So some progress has been made!
Regards.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by justcool(m): 10:21pm On May 08, 2013
@Speer,
My dear friend, I deeply apologize for this my very late reply. I’ve been very busy and sometimes my laziness gets the better part of me.
Speer: Thanks Justcool.
Next inquiry is from Scripture (Exodus);

So Moses chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones and went up Mount Sinai early in the morning, as the Lord had commanded him; and he carried the two stone tablets in his hands. 5 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord. 6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.”
[/i]


I cannot quite figure out the last sentence in the context of the Message..........obviously to do with reciprocal action and homogeneous species.

I have already shared my perception, with a certain Nairalander, on the issue of generational curse. Here is what I wrote to him:

[i]Generational curse does not imply that it is God who curses the descendants.
"The sins of the fathers shall be visited on to the sons," does not mean that it is God who does this injustice by making the sons suffer for the sins of their fathers. It is we humans that are responsible for this injustice. How??
I will give an example:
A man teaches his son that God does not exist. This teaching and the belief(atheism) resulting from it is evil will remain in the family. Even after the father dies, the son still carries this belief; and he may teach his sons the same thing. And from generation on to generation the evil continues. Even many years after the man who invented it has died, as long as the belief is still passed down, from generation to generation, in his family, the evil remains. And the consequence of this evil, will remain and afflict the family from generation to generation until one generation realizes that this belief is wrong.
If they discard this wrong belief and seek God; they will find the Truth, and consequently, the curse will fall away from them.
Therefore be careful with what you teach your descendants. The man who teaches his descendants wrong teachings, will remain held in the beyond after he dies; he will not be able to ascend to Paradise as long as his wrong teaching remains in the family. Even if it takes centuries.

Therefore be careful with what you teach your descendants. You will be held accountable for whatever you teach people. Even everything you write in the Nairaland forum; you must one day face the consequences.


In addition the above, attraction of homogenous species can have a hand in what manifests to us as generational curse; this, you have quite rightly sensed and expressed in your question. A man who has a predilection for stealing, for example; this predilection of his, being so strong, may act as the dominant factor in determining the nature of the children who comes into the world through his wife or another pregnant woman in his vicinity, or who is a close associate of his. Based on the law of attraction of homogenous species, the man can only attract souls who carry the same vice or predilection for stealing. Hence when his wife becomes pregnant, one of such souls, who is attracted by this man, incarnates into the developing fetus. And as long as this vice remains the predominate attracting factor or quality in this family, only souls carrying similar vices will attract. Hence from generation to generation thieves are born in the family. The onlookers, judging by the history of the family will easily conclude that God cursed the family, or cursed the forefathers of the family. But in reality it was the forefather who cursed himself and his future family by opening a door through which only souls from hell can come in and incarnate into his family.

And this is part of the reason why the ancient cultures were warned not to mix or interbreed with other races or cultures, and why many ancient peoples, including the ancient Igbos, demanded that the pregnant woman should be very careful with whom she allowed in her vicinity or with whom she associated with. These ancient peoples, in their simple and pure intuitive perceptions, could already sense the three most obvious and most fundamental laws of creation: The law of Reciprocal action; the law of attraction of homogenous species; and the law of spiritual gravity. The missionaries and the jihadists, along with the “modern intellectual man,” in their illusion of progress no longer perceive or sense these obvious laws, quickly regarding them as superstitious beliefs and the observance of them as racism, suppression of women, segregation, etc.

As with vices so with virtues. A person can also bless his family and bless the world through his descendants by cultivating a righteous quality in him to the extent that it will become the major factor that will determine the nature of his children or children in his vicinity. Look at Bob Marley, for example! Almost all his descendants are musically inclined and hence successful. People often say that God specially blessed Bob and his family with musical talent. Another will say that Bob’s children inherited the musical talent from Bob. However, both sides are wrong! God does not specially and specially bless one more than another! We all started off with the same amount of blessings, the same amount of talents; however, while the individual spirit choses which talent to develop, and some souls, out of laziness, enveloped none of theirs! In reality it is man who creates himself! One does not inherit his present’s talents, (here I’m talking about talents that stem from the spirit, spiritual qualities such as artistry). When an individual possess the same talent as his parents, it must not be assumed that he inherited it from his parents; rather his parents attracted him due to the Law of attraction of homogenous species.

In view of all this clarification, when the scriptures(Bible, Koran, etc.) report that God said to a particular individual, “If you follow my commandments, I will bless you and your descendants,” it should not be interpreted to mean that God specially chose to make a covenant with this particular man and his descendants, while ignoring others; such will be favoritism. God does not practice favoritism! The scriptures were written from the view point of man. From this view point, it appears that this man was specifically picked by God to bless. But from the right perspective, it was the man who blessed himself, making himself a door through which only virtuous souls can incarnate, thus making his descendants a blessed people. This man, out of his own personal effort, chose to utilize the blessings that God provided to all his creatures irrespective of their race, color, nationality, and or creed. The scriptural saying is as good as telling a man, who lives in a mosquito infected neighborhood, that if he closes his windows in the night, mosquitos will not enter and bite him while he sleeps. It is as good as a man coming to the recognition that if he follows the proper rules of hygiene, healthy diet and exercise, he will live a healthy life. This is not favoritism, because anybody who lives up to these standards will receive the same benefits; those that do not recognize these stands are only lazy people who never tried to investigate and find out how to treat their body to achieve optimum health.

By the same token, when the scriptures say, “he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation,” looked from the right perspective, this only means: Based on the laws of creation, set in place by God, you will held accountable for the sins you introduce in creation or the evil that you teach your children, even if these sins persist up to the fourth generation! Hence physical death doesn’t free you from the evils you did on earth. It also highlights that fact that ignorance does not protect from the law of reciprocal action; if you teach an innocent child to sin, when he commits this sin as an adult, he will bear responsibility for this sin, even though you raised him to believe that the sin was not a sin; his ignorance will not excuse him. The fact that you are tied to him and will not ascend until he recognizes the truth of this sin, will not absolve him of the full responsibility for all his actions. Hence this scriptural saying is as good as telling a man that if he puts a hole on the bottom of his floating boat, water will keep filling the boat until it sinks. As long as the hole remains there, and the boat remains on the river, water will keep coming into it through the hole, even days after poking the hole, and even if the man who drilled the hole is no longer alive; his boat is bound to sink!

Rightly understood, these scriptures should not be thrown away; only that the right understanding of them, the descriptive manner as well as the spiritual development of the writer should be properly understood and taken into account by the readers of today. Unfortunately, the religionists refuses to take these into consideration, they would rather see these scriptures as proof from God that they or some cultures are specially chosen by God, loved more by God. In this they thereby declare God guilty of favoritism!


Speer: This inquiry is from the Message------The First Step in Vol. I

If you could but once see how the immutable Justice of God’s All-Holy Will is always fulfilled in the self-acting Laws of this Creation for every single thought you harbor, you would strive with all your might to attain purity in your thinking!

Only then will you have become such human beings as the Creator in His Work will mercifully guide to the knowledge that bestows eternal life upon them, allowing them to become helpers in Creation worthy to receive the high blessings destined for the human spirit; so that these may be joyfully and gratefully transformed and passed on to those creatures who are only able to absorb them through such a transformation by man, and who today, through the decline of the human spirit, remain wantonly cut off from them, after it had already been possible for them to come into existence in times of a better and more purely swinging humanity[i][/i].

Had pls wanted to ask about the creatures mentioned above and about the transformed radiations that they depend on from human spirits . I presume that they are animistic beings

Yes! These are the animistic beings or the elementals, some of whom the ancients referred to as fairies. However, it is my perception that the ones that remain wantonly cut off are the ones, a particular species of elemental, whose tasks are to link up pass down to the human spirits in subsequent creation, the radiations that they(the elementals) receive from higher elementals above them.

I have already explained that the animistic only receive and transmit or give away; the spirits, however, pull and attract from all directions. These elementals, closest to the human spirits receive radiations from the higher elementals above them in the sphere substantiality, however, since they do not have free will, they only dispense downwards. It is the spirits(the human spirit in subsequent creation) tasks to pull these radiations from these elementals and through their(the spirits) connection to the higher spirits above subsequent creation, these radiations are in turn pulled or attracted by the spirits above. Hence the more the spirits pull from these elementals, the more they(the elementals) can receive from the elementals above them. Through this activity the elementals become stronger, more active and powerful. But when the spirits could not pull from them, they receive lesser from above and hence become weaker.

Since the elementals do not possess freewill, they cannot pull but only receive and dispense downwards. And based on the Law of reciprocal action, only through giving can one receive! Hence, when there is none to pull from these elementals in subsequent creation, they receive less and hence in time they can become cut off due to the failure or inactivity of the spirits in subsequent creation. These are the creatures, mentioned, who can only absorb radiations through transformations by human spirits. Suffice also for me to mention that by pulling or attracting from them, the human spirits maintain a connection to them(the elementals) and through this connection, a certain type of radiation, which is necessary for them, flows back to them retroactively.

A good way to picture the radiation of spirits is to picture an alternating electric current. In alternating current both positive and negative current flow interchanging on the live wire; that’s why in alternating current we don’t have a positive pole(wire) and a negative pole(wire). Rather we have a live wire(live pole) and a neutral wire(or reverence pole). Through the live wire current both flows into the source or appliance(positive current) and away from the source or appliance(negative current). Hence any appliance connected to alternating current receives both positive(currents coming into it) and negative(currents being pulled away from it) from the live wire!

Hence when a spirit is connected to anything, in the way of radiation, it not only pulls or attracts, it also gives out; thereby sustaining the source! Yet the spirit mainly pulls or attracts, but through this attraction currents also retroactively flows back to the source or to that which it’s pulling from.

Hence the relationship between the spirits and the elementals are very symbiotic, like all relationships within creation. The spirits pull from the elementals, thereby leaving room in them(the elementals) to receive more from the elementals above them. And through this pulling, spiritual currents retroactively flows back to these elementals from which the spirits pull. Hence when the spiritual activity is missing, the elementals(in subsequent creation) remain wantonly cut off. They cannot grow bigger and more powerful, because for this they need to receive enormous energy from above; since for they do not nave freewill and cannot pull, they can only receive enormous energy from above when there is enormous demand or pull from them. When this demand, attraction, or pull that only comes from spirits is lacking, the elementals receive only what they need to remain alive or in existence. In reality, it was this demand from the spirits in subsequent creation that brought them(this particular type of elementals in subsequent creation) that brought them into being in the first place.

Speer: @speer

Please bear with me. I will treat your questions as soon as time permits me.

Thanks and remain blessed


Thanks so very much for the explanations above in response to shinealight.

Much earlier, I had asked if an ascending spirit passes through the animistic sphere and found the answer in the chapter titled Spirit-germs in Vol. III.

Peace

I’m happy about the above. And I wish you strength in that regards. My explanations are meant to make you see more in the Grail Message! I have nothing new to offer, but that which already lies in the Grail Message. My words are meant to induce seeking into the Grail Message, which I hold as the ultimate authority, wherever my words or those of other posters deviate from the Grail Message, you must give credence to the word of the Grail message.

Always feel free to raise more issues.

Thanks and remain blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by justcool(m): 10:56pm On May 08, 2013
shinealight: @ Justcool

Hello Justcool. Thought I should seize the opportunity of this Bank Holiday to put down the perception about Lucifer that I promised in my last post. Here it goes:

That which was able to take on form first in the Divine Substantiate was the Primordial Queen Elizabeth, Who is also the Primordial Queen of Womanhood. Next we have the Archangels and the Primordial Queen Elizabeth contributes in the formation of the Archangels. These are designated as the four columns of the Throne of GOD. The Archangels take on male form and have wings which swing totally and completely in the Will of the Almighty. The Archangels are flaming columns that swing down and upwards again. The Primordial Queen's activity is directed downwards and that of the Archangels upwards. The Archangels swing completely in the Will of the Almighty and their activity is directed completely to the Almighty.

When we hear of the Archangels, e.g. Gabriel or Michael being in Creation, it is not them but their radiation. They remain in their place swinging totally in the Will of the Almighty in a flaming column.

For this instance, let us see Lucifer as a radiation of Light which was sent down from Divine Substantiate.

Now, in Divine Substantiate, there is also Spiritual Substantiate. One can picture a strong radiation of Light sent from the Divine Substantiate to Subsequent Creation. The spirit-germs in Subsequent Creation were stagnant. This stagnation took place in gross matter. The substantiate (animistic) beings in exixtence at that time, seen as gods by the spirits, could not set these stagnant spirits in motion. Even the Fore-runners were not able to get the indolent spirit-germs into motion. Help was needed and as such a strong radiation of Light was sent from the Divine Substantiate as a help. Lucifer was this radiation of Light to penetrate Subsequent Creation in order to get these spirits swinging in the Will of the Almighty. The name Lucifer means Bringer of Light.

This Light radiation was able to penetrate Subsequent Creation and as it has spiritual in it, so in Subsequent Creation it became spiritual. Lucifer came as a direct radiation but he did not go through all the intervening planes and he came outside Subsequent Creation. He could thus influence the spirits in Subsequent Creation. Because of his distance from the Divine, Lucifer developed his own volition whereby he wanted to take charge contrary to the nature of an Angel which is to just carry out but not to be the one to determine. As such, he developed his own personal volition while the spirit-germs also had their own personal, therefore as the strongest he could influence these spirit-germs' volition. As a result, Lucifer lost the Divine Substantiate radiation connection which he had and became the strongest spirit.

It is further noted that volitions can take form. In the case of Lucifer, first his volition took on form as the monster in the Book of Revelations, as the Antichrist and also as the form of sin. When in the Book of Revelations the picture is transmitted that the child in the lap of the Queen of Heaven was attacked, this took place in the Primordial Spiritual plane. The monster was Lucifer and Archangel Michael was sent down to fight this monster and expel him fron the seven heavens which is to say from the Primordial Creation and Creation. From then, Lucifer's influence could be felt in Subsequent Creation. This anger that Lucifer had because of his banishment he concentrated on the human spirits. Lucifer was thrown into the abyss and the Antichrist and the animal (sin) were killed. The forms that the volition of Lucifer took on could be killed by Parsifal. Lucifer himself could not be killed by Parsifal. Parsifal could only bind and banish him. Parsifal could not kill Lucifer since Lucifer is eternal. The reason for Lucifer's eternal life is explained through the logical understanding of the nature of the radiations of God. As long as God is in existence, His eternal radiations are eternal and unavoidable. These rays emanating from God that are unavoidable and eternal gave rise to the existence of the Archangels. Lucifer came into existence out of the volition of an Archangel and as such will remain eternal so long as the radiation of God remain.

So much for the perception I spoke about. As I had noted previously, this has not originated from me but is from a source that I consider sacrosanct but not infallible. Readers are therefore enjoined to examine what has been written thoroughly with their intuition. I have no doubt Justcool, M_Nwankwo and a few others will do just that in any case!
Regards and stay blessed.



@Shinealight

Thanks for the above! I have taken time to read it and will reread it and digest. Basically it does not diverge from my view as to where the attack on Elizabeth took place. Only little divergence in regards to the descent and sending out of Lucifer.

When time permits me I will offer my humble perception on the issue in the exchanges between you and m_nwankwo. As of now, I can only thank both of you for sharing your perceptions! Despite all that has been said and all the documents, there are facts that remains clear to me. Facts that nobody, crossbearer or not, can take away from me, since it stems from my personal experiencing; an experience which I will share here as soon as time permits me. These facts remain: (1) Abd-ru-shin's legacy to mankind is the Grail message. Every other document irrespective of where it came from must not be given credence over the Grail message. (2) Abd-ru-shin can never lie or participate in any form of deception! (3) Irmingard was and remains purity and was not a liar or a deceiver. Personal experiences engraved these facts into my soul! Nothing can extinguish them.

And when I say personal experiences, don't misunderstand me, these are not supernatural or anything extraordinary, I did not met Abd-ru-shin, Maria, Irmingard, personally in their last incarnations on earth. So I'm not claiming to have any personal associations with any of them.


Thanks and remain blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by justcool(m): 11:06pm On May 08, 2013
@Deep Sight
Deep Sight:

What was the motivation behind this reported statement? Was it or was it not due to Nazi harrassment? Did it, or did it not originate from security intimidation by the Nazi Regime? Is it possibly the case, or not, that such a statement was made on the express insistence of the Nazi regime? Was Abd-ru-Shin arrested, or not arrested, by the Nazi regime at any point in time with regard to any matters associated thereto?

Look particularly at the line I have highlighted in red. What was that "necessity" or "imperative"?

I would be interested to know.

Also, the answers may have a bearing on your discussion with shinealight.

Good observation!
I have more questions to add to the above; please anybody can answer this questions.

(1) Was the document in question written for the entire mankind? Was not the Grail Message Abd-ru-shin's legacy to mankind? Who was this document written to. Is this document in regards to business or spiritual mandate?

(2) Does the document in any way annul anything written in the Grail message? What does the Grail Message say about joint gathering or union of crossbearers?

(3) What does the Grail Message tell us about Maria and Irmingard?

Thanks and remain blessed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Speer: 11:57pm On May 08, 2013
Hello Justcool,

Thanks. There is a rush of excitement once I see a response from you............and the longer it is (with examples/illustrations) the better!


Qstn:

When our physical bodies are damaged, the astral and ethereal bodies remain the same as before. When "doubting Thomas" and the other disciples had their astral or ethereal eyes opened on the appearance of Jesus.....why were they able to see his injuries on his astral or ethereal body?



Qstn:

You had mentioned earlier that if one was interested, you could elucidate about the thief on the cross who went to paradise. Abd-ru-Shin does talk about the event in his Questions & Answers. However, a rogue coming to conviction and and understanding of Creation, recognition of Jesus......etc just on his cruxifixation does stretch the mind. Even the disciples could not fathom all the words of Jesus despite the few years they spent with him.
As an aside, the way the event is described in the Bible, it does come across as an arbitrary act.



Qstn from the lecture Faith in Vol. 2:

Divine Messages are received through the Word of God and also through His Creation. Everything bears witness to Him and to His Will. As soon as a man is able consciously to experience the entire process of genesis and existence[i][/i][color=#990000][/color], all his intuitions, his thoughts and his deeds will unite in joyful affirmation of God

Could you please explain the highlighted portion.

Thanks again Justcool, your explanations are very much held in regard and have speeded up my understanding.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 10:41am On May 09, 2013
justcool: @Deep Sight


Good observation!
I have more questions to add to the above; please anybody can answer this questions.

(1) Was the document in question written for the entire mankind? Was not the Grail Message Abd-ru-shin's legacy to mankind? Who was this document written to. Is this document in regards to business or spiritual mandate?

(2) Does the document in any way annul anything written in the Grail message? What does the Grail Message say about joint gathering or union of crossbearers?

(3) What does the Grail Message tell us about Maria and Irmingard?

Thanks and remain blessed.

Hello Justcool. I believe that the second part of the question posed in (2) is addressed in the following passage from the Grail Message:

"...Go out and learn and you will soon recognise where you are offered the true bread of life!
Above all make use of the joint gatherings as hours for the solemn worship of God. But do express Divine service in the entire activity of your being, in life itself; for it is with this that you shall serve your Creator, thankful and jubilant for the grace of being allowed to exist!
Make everything you think and do into a service to God! Then it will bring you that peace which you long for. And even if people harass you severely, be it through envy, malice or base habits, you bear peace within yourselves forever, and this will finally help you to overcome all difficulties!"

With regard to question (3), I noted earlier in this thread that a 'Spark of Unsubstantiality' was sunk into Irmingard. Without going too far in an open forum (where various readers should be allowed to come to certain recognitions through their own effort), it is further noted in the Grail Message that the Triad of Justice, Love and Purity work together in Creation in the last, most sacred fulfilment.
Hope this is of some help.
Regards.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 1:14pm On May 09, 2013
shinealight:

Hope this is of some help.
Regards.

LOL, this is actually funny. Very helpful it is indeed, when you snobbishly decide not to "go to far" and not to say too much "in an open forum" and then talk about "the last most sacred fulfillment", which of course, must also perhaps be kept a secret from the public who are knaves, no?

Very helpful indeed.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 2:58pm On May 09, 2013
Deep Sight:

LOL, this is actually funny. Very helpful it is indeed, when you snobbishly decide not to "go to far" and not to say too much "in an open forum" and then talk about "the last most sacred fulfillment", which of course, must also perhaps be kept a secret from the public who are knaves, no?

Very helpful indeed.

Hahahahahaha! I actually find your own comments quite funny as well. Anyway, I would refer you to a statement which Justcool gave in response to Speer's question above, which sums things up quite nicely:

"Therefore be careful with what you teach your descendants. You will be held accountable for whatever you teach people. Even everything you write in the Nairaland forum; you must one day face the consequences".

I do not want to misguide anyone on this forum, neither do I want to overload anyone's faculties as I do not know who is reading the posts and how far they have gone in their reading of the Grail Message. I therefore think it better to err on the side of caution!
Best wishes.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 5:27pm On May 09, 2013
shinealight:

Hahahahahaha! I actually find your own comments quite funny as well. Anyway, I would refer you to a statement which Justcool gave in response to Speer's question above, which sums things up quite nicely:

"Therefore be careful with what you teach your descendants. You will be held accountable for whatever you teach people. Even everything you write in the Nairaland forum; you must one day face the consequences".

I do not want to misguide anyone on this forum, neither do I want to overload anyone's faculties as I do not know who is reading the posts and how far they have gone in their reading of the Grail Message. I therefore think it better to err on the side of caution!
Best wishes.

O I get that. . . perhaps I just wonder if truth is harmful. . . and if truth is simple.

I know that THE truth is simple and always beneficial.

When you talk about overloading people's faculties, you presume that they do not have the faculties for such. More importantly, it emerges from such a presumption that that which you seek to teach is in fact not simple, and also carries the potential for harming those who are in fact simple.

You would not be hesitant to teach openly the simple and most important truths, would you?

But you will of course be hesitant to teach advanced "truths" which involve deifying the Author of the message as Parsifal himself: the radiations for whom are said to originate in the divine: and other such "recognitions" the importance of which are, of course, only obvious to the initiated.

If I were to ask you who Jesus was, his deeper identity, you would not hesitate to openly respond according to your conviction. However if I were to ask you the same question regarding Abd Ru Shin, you would begin to talk about overloading my faculties, the need for me to come to recognition via my own effort, and such other. Do you not think that the hesitation to identify who is who bespeaks that which does not rest in truth?

[Edited: Some text removed for goodness' sake!]
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 11:45pm On May 09, 2013
Deep Sight:

You would not be hesitant to teach openly the simple and most important truths, would you?


Thank you for your comments Deep Sight. Please note that the Grail Message cannot be taught. No Crossbearer sets out to teach anybody the Grail Message. Every serious seeker takes from it what s/he is able to inwardly identify with or leaves it alone if s/he finds nothing in it.
Best wishes
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 12:21am On May 10, 2013
shinealight:

Thank you for your comments Deep Sight. Please note that the Grail Message cannot be taught. No Crossbearer sets out to teach anybody the Grail Message. Every serious seeker takes from it what s/he is able to inwardly identify with or leaves it alone if s/he finds nothing in it.
Best wishes

Okay.

Lets put two direct questions to you. But I will advance them one at a time. Can you help answer me this -

1. Is Jesus the SON of God?

I am sure you understand why I have the word "son" capitalized and bolded.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 10:26am On May 10, 2013
@ Deep Sight
The answer to that question is subjective. There are millions of moslems who would say he is not and even more millions of buddhists and animists who do not accept that he is. Not to mention hundreds of millions of atheists who do not even believe in the existence of God, talkless of His Son. I daresay not all those millions will go to Hell but at the time that is right for them they will come to the recognition of the Truth either here or in the hereafter.

So, if your perception is that he is, then for you he is and you would reap the benefit of his Power when you call on his name. If however you inwardly do not accept that he is, then his power cannot reach you either. It is exactly the same with belief or disbelief in the existence of God. The Power of the Almighty cannot flow into soil that is antagonistic to it. That is how everybody receives his/her sentence - it has to do with his/her inner state and conviction or lack of it.

You, of course, would want Crossbearers to come out and announce who Abd-ru-shin, the Author of the Grail Message is, his spiritual identity, his relationship to the Almighty, etc. Of what use would that be to you or anybody else? He actually did that himself while earth but all he got for his trouble was persecution, imprisonment and prohibition of his Work. That is always the reaction of the Darkness and its minions to anything that is of the Light.
So, if you are truly seeking, pick up the book, dig into it and you will come to your own recognitions by yourself and that is what will carry conviction for you which will help you at the hour of need. There is no point in asking me about my conviction because that is MINE and it will not do YOU any good. If I sense that you are truly seeking, I may provide some guidance and pointers or share my perceptions but I cannot teach you anything because I , myself, am continually evolving in my perceptions. I hope you now see why the Grail Message cannot be taught by anybody - it is LIVING!

In regard to the Message, Abd-ru-shin had this to say:
"....I pointed out that readers should heed only the Word Itself, and not Its Bringer. To examine the Works seriously and to accept only what each one for himself, with genuine conviction, can recognise as right is my special advice, because only on such a basis can benefit arise for him...."

I think you should take the above words to heart.
Best wishes.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 10:50am On May 10, 2013
I fully expected an answer such as this; and you have not failed to deliver it.

shinealight: @ Deep Sight
The answer to that question is subjective. There are millions of moslems who would say he is not and even more millions of buddhists and animists who do not accept that he is. Not to mention hundreds of millions of atheists who do not even believe in the existence of God, talkless of His Son. I daresay not all those millions will go to Hell but at the time that is right for them they will come to the recognition of the Truth either here or in the hereafter.

I put the question to you and not any one else; and I had a reason for so doing.

So, if your perception is that he is, then for you he is and you would reap the benefit of his Power when you call on his name. If however you inwardly do not accept that he is, then his power cannot reach you either. It is exactly the same with belief or disbelief in the existence of God.

I strongly disagree with this. What factors enable "belief" to be beneficial to the believer. In fact, what does it take to "believe' in Jesus Christ. I say to you that such belief has nothing to do with his identity - but rather has to do with living in love according to his teachings and commandments. Thus one who believes that Jesus is the Christ and Son of God but does not live in love is lost; whereas one who does not even know of the existence of Jesus, or does not believe that he is the Christ, and yet lives in love, is saved and accesses the power of the love of God, anyway.

What I am thus saying here is that what is cardinal is for each person to live in love. Love should be the guiding principle. If we live our lives in love, nothing else is required. We are certainly not required to "recognize" this or that envoy: that would render God and his envoys egoistic and even petty, if you think on it. Nor is any blessing or power closed to us for such failure to recognize and envoy: for all blessings are routed through love and the simple laws of Karma, regardless of our religion.

To back up this position I would want you to read two posts made in the past. They are quite long and so I will post them separately below. One is written by M Nwankwo and the other by myself. Please take the time to go through them as they are quite important.

You, or course, would want Crossbearers to come out and announce who Abd-ru-shin, the Author of the Grail Message is, his spiritual identity, his relationship to the Almighty, etc. Of what use would that be to you or anybody else.

Well Christians daily proclaim publicly who Jesus is. If their claim is true, that very declaration I am sure has nudged many people out of curiosity to draw towards the church and seek his succour. I can see no reason why Crossbearers on the other hand are terrified of stating who Abd Ru Shin is. I verily suspect that the only reason Cross Bearers have this great reticence is the fact that they know it is an astonishing claim: and one that will be received with mirth by most people. That, if we are to be severely HONEST with ourselves, is the real reason for the secrecy, excuses and reticence.

If you are truly seeking, pick up the book,

Just how widely available is this book? I have a copy here in my study, but I know for a fact that this book is not exactly the most widely available book out there. Thus in proportion to the amount of humans and indeed seekers, it is unrealistic to ask everyone to get the book. It simply is not that widely available.

As such, it would make sense for those who have read it to be willing to share some of the fundamental thoughts in it.

Perhaps you should also think about the illiterate, and persons who speak languages that the book has yet to be translated into! Christians do not hesitate to evangelize to such people in a way suited to their own understanding, do they? They boldly share their message of salvation nonetheless, no? Will the crossbearer withhold the message from the illiterate and the man of a different tongue?

Now I will post below the two posts from Nwankwo and myself and these posts are meant to task you on the question of belief in any God, any name whatsoever, and if there is any benefit in such, as opposed to the simple principle of just living a life of love.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 10:56am On May 10, 2013
Here is the first post i promised. I call it "The True Meaning of Love" by M Nwankwo. It remains my favorite post on nairaland till date.

God is love. One can also say that God is the source of love. All creatures of God irrespective of race, religion, sex, nationality etc can absorb of this love of God and dispense it accordingly. In the case of human beings, what absorbs this love from God is the human spirit. This love will permeate the spirit, its clocks including the outermost shell, the physical body. Thus he who absorbs the rays of love will manifest love including love for all creations of God. Now, the recognition of this love as coming from God depends on the various radiation connection between the spirit and the various shells surrounding the spirit, the last shell being the physical body and its coordinating center, the human brain. In many of us, this radiation connections are not straight, thus the shells enveloping the spirit are not conscious of the impressions that vibrates in the spirit. Thus a man may believe himself to be an atheist because that is what his brain tells him and yet his spirit is in the recognition of God. Irrespective of his brain telling him that God does not exist, the emanations of the spirit including love still permeates his mind and body resulting in expressions of genuine love. Thus although from a human standpoint, such a man is considered by himself and others to be atheist, spiritually the man is a theist.

In a similar vein the brain and the mind may be trained or indoctrinated or programmed to believe in God but their spirit has no recognition of God. In this case, this believer is actually an atheist even though he believes himself to be a theist. However because he, that is, the spirit has no connection with God, he cannot absorb the rays of love and manifest it. Thus, in spite of his intellectual believe in God, he still manifests the works of the flesh including hatred, anger, lust, gossip, avarice, fear, etc. The species of a seed determines the fruits that it will bear. Thus all genuine love and human beings who indulge in it believe in God even when they are unconscious of it while on earth.

Thus, all human beings who indulge in genuine love are of God and all those who indulge in hatred are not of God. By there works or fruits, you shall know those who stand in the will of God and those that oppose it or do not recognize it. This is an infallible yardstick to know who belongs to God and those who are not.

Therefore the love of God manifests in the love of all creations of God. On earth, it is possible for an atheist to love God without being spiritually conscious of it. However if such atheist continues in the manifestation of the love of God, either later in this earthly life or in the beyond on in another earthly life the emanations of the love of God that vibrates in his spirit will also permeate his earthly brain such that he also becomes conscious of the existence of God while in the physical body. What counts is how our spirit is close or far away from the will of God. Religion, nationality, sex, class and similar things that we think are very important while on earth are worthless once we drop this physical body.

In my view, there is no difference between the pope, the Christian, the mystic or an atheists when it concerns the will of God. Murder is murder whether perpetrated by a pope, a theist or an atheist. Genuine love is genuine love whether it came from an atheist, a pastor or an agnostic. Sometimes we think too much and thus think nothing. If we look around even on earth, we should find that the natural laws which are the manifestation of the will of God in nature does not give a hoot about all these artificial constructs. If a bud-hist sows yam in a fertile soil, he will reap yam. The same goes for an atheist and the theist. In an earthquake or epidemic or accident, both theists and atheists are saved and killed. A deeper look on why these things are the way they are may open our eyes to the working of God. Best wishes.


https://www.nairaland.com/687376/true-meaning-love-nwankwo
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 11:05am On May 10, 2013
And here is the post from myself, following the above. It dwells on the parable of the good samaritan.

^^^ And what does it take to worship God, if not simply be a good person Viaro?

Are the outward forms and rituals, such as Prayer, Praise, Ceremonies etc really required by a Living God?

In all sincerity, let me ask you what you understand by the injunction that one must worship God is Spirit and in Truth?

In my own understanding, that simply means that dead outward ceremonies are not the substance of worshipping God - that the worship of God rather relates to the inward state of the spirit which corresponds to eternal truth.

This is why I brought up the parable of the good Samaritan, which I thought should be sufficient to show you from your own bible that the worship of God has absolutely nothing to do with outward ceremonies, rituals or dogmatic or doctrinal acknowledgements.

Now to elucidate the point it is critical that we carefully note the context of that parable -

The Gospel of Luke provides the context for the parable as:

One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: “Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?”

So it should be noted that the parable was given within a context of salvation – namely that which would be required for one to be accepted with God.

Jesus replied, “What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?”

The man answered, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.’ And, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’” “Right!” Jesus told him. “Do this and you will live!”

So it is also clear that the ensuing parable sets forth that which it takes to “love God” and “love one’s neighbour.”

This is all the more emphasized since as you well know Jesus often stated that those who care for their neighbours were actually showing such love to him and to God. “I was hungry, and you fed me . . . whenever you did this for one of those, you did the same for me. . . “

The man wanted to justify his actions, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbour?”

Jesus then replied with a story:

“A Jewish man was travelling on a trip from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he was attacked by bandits. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him up, and left him half dead beside the road. By chance a priest came along. But when he saw the man lying there, he crossed to the other side of the road and passed him by. A Levite walked over and looked at him lying there, but he also passed by on the other side.


Now it is instructive that Jesus selects a Priest and a Levite to demonstrate his point – because the Priest and the Levite as you well know symbolize those who expressly acknowledge God, accept all the attendant doctrines about God and morality, and actively execute the outward rituals of “worshipping” God. The Levites as you know were a dedicated tribe of holy priests within the nation of Israel.

However Jesus has just shown what I am trying to say – namely that all the outward forms of acknowledgement of God which these people subscribed to did not in any way mean that they were really worshipping God – because of their action of ignoring the man who was hurt.


Now note carefully the next verses –

“Then a despised Samaritan came along, and when he saw the man, he felt compassion for him.”

Stop press! Note the words “despised Samaritan?” Why did Jesus not use any other lay Jew or even a non-specified person to elucidate his point? He rather chose to select what? – a DESPISED SAMARITAN!

Now Wikipedia says -

Portraying a Samaritan in positive light would have come as a shock to Jesus' audience.[1] It is typical of his provocative speech in which conventional expectations are turned upside down.[1]

Thus note carefully the context – the Samaritan symbolizes people who are deemed to be “on the wrong side” of correct religious doctrine at the time and people who were accordingly “despised.”

Notwithstanding that, this is what Jesus conveys –

“Going over to him, the Samaritan soothed his wounds with olive oil and wine and bandaged them. Then he put the man on his own donkey and took him to an inn, where he took care of him. The next day he handed the innkeeper two silver coins, telling him, ‘Take care of this man. If his bill runs higher than this, I’ll pay you the next time I’m here.’

Jesus concludes –

“Now which of these three would you say was a neighbour to the man who was attacked by bandits?” Jesus asked. The man replied, “The one who showed him mercy.” Then Jesus said, “Yes, now go and do the same.

In this parable it is critical to note the imagery of the selected individuals –

1. “A Priest and a Levite” – are clearly indicative of people who have formally acknowledged God and are also at the fore-front of all the outward rituals and ceremonies.

2. “A Samaritan” – is considered on the wrong side of doctrine and dogma and is also “generally despised” in religious terms.

However it is easy to see that the man who is supposedly on the wrong side of doctrine – who no indication of God is made about is painted in glowing terms by Jesus because of his kind and merciful deeds.

I need to point out also the Imagery of Brotherly Affiliation. Note this from Wikipedia –

According to the Jewish version of events, when the Judean exile ended in 538 BCE and the exiles began returning home from Babylon, they found their former homeland populated by other people who claimed the land as their own and Jerusalem, their former glorious capital, in ruins.

And –

Jewish tradition maintains a different origin for the Samaritans. The Talmud accounts for a people called "Cuthim" on a number of occasions, mentioning their arrival by the hands of the Assyrians.

Much may be said – but basically there was this divide existing between the Jews and the Samaritans.

Now In answering the question – “who is your neighbor” – the parable of the Good Samaritan goes the extra step of showing that neighborliness arises not from tribal or religious affiliations but from loving acts of concern for one another.

What this shows is that the “groups” of churches, mosques, or other theists, are useless in determining the question of neighborliness. An Atheist or Buddhist could as well be a better neighbor than your Deacon in Church or your Imam in Mosque.

And given the parable of the Good Samaritan, in such an event, we can clearly see WHOM has done the will of God. . . .

So my dear friend, while you edify nobody by talking endlessly about definitions (define this, define that), I assert to you today that which was the living essence of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ – namely that love trumps all things and is the very essence of Christianity.

And if an Atheist or a Buddhist will show such love, then he has certainly met the requirements of the God that Jesus preached about – regardless of whether he accepts that such a God exists or not.

This is so simple and so pure – and should come so naturally to the Christian who is steeped in the ideas of Christ – which ideas tended towards love and doctrinal flexibility: and not towards iron cast “definitions” which you regrettably seem adamantly attached to – at the expense of the simple beauty of the gospel of Jesus. Jesus statements on the observance of the Sabbath and other such – just show the flexibility I speak about – which tends towards –spirit and truth – and not outward forms.

At all events since it is a given that you will yet dispute this simple and lucid example; for the objective reader – I state in simplicity – An Atheist or a Buddhist, if he lives a life of love and charity - certainly does the will of the God that Jesus preached about.


https://www.nairaland.com/634923/wallace-cannot-good-god-does#8025566
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 11:52am On May 10, 2013
@ Deep Sight

Well, I have read the exchange between you and M_Nwankwo and it does not change anything of what I stated earlier.
To believe in Jesus is to believe in and practise his Message of Love. However you have to understand what that message of love is. It is not that sensual feeling of affection that human beings call love but the Higher Love which is the same as Justice and is bound up with the Laws of Creation. So basically, Love and Justice are bound together and manifest in the Laws of Creation which are no respecter of persons, be you Christian, Buddhist, Atheist or whatever. So, to understand the true message of Love you have to understand the working of the Laws of Creation. It is the understanding of these laws that the Grail Message sought to explain and guide us into.

Besides the above, there is also Power in the name, whether you believe it or not. Hence the second Commandment of God given through Moses states that "THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN". It is not for nothing that the commandment was given. The name awakens and gathers the concept in man! Whoever dishonours a name and dares to debase it, thereby debases the concept!

The Grail Message is widely available depending on your location. I suggest you check out the link below and from there you can access the Book Store for your country of residence:
http://shop.alexander-bernhardt.com/index.php?page=index&x77939=dbebd442d61e57b70e115ec80ba82c96

In addition to this, there are Grail Circles & Grail Centres in many cities of the world and there are helpers who are willing to guide those who are desirous of reading the Message in a language of their mother tongue in a Reader's Forum.
Best wishes.
Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by DeepSight(m): 2:03pm On May 10, 2013
shinealight: @ Deep Sight

Well, I have read the exchange between you and M_Nwankwo and it does not change anything of what I stated earlier.

To be clear; the two posts I provided are not an exchange between Nwankwo and I; they rest in different threads, albeit expressing the same idea. By "Follow up" I meant this thread.

To believe in Jesus is to believe in and practise his Message of Love. However you have to understand what that message of love is. It is not that sensual feeling of affection that human beings call love but the Higher Love which is the same as Justice and is bound up with the Laws of Creation. So basically, Love and Justice are bound together and manifest in the Laws of Creation which are no respecter of persons, be you Christian, Buddhist, Atheist or whatever. So, to understand the true message of Love you have to understand the working of the Laws of Creation. It is the understanding of these laws that the Grail Message sought to explain and guide us into.

And this summarizes my position. Excellent.

Besides the above, there is also Power in the name, whether you believe it or not. Hence the second Commandment of God given through Moses states that "THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN".

And what about those who have never heard such names?

It is not for nothing that the commandment was given. [b]The name awakens and gathers the concept in man! Whoever dishonours a name and dares to debase it, thereby debases the concept!

What about those who have a similar concept but with different identities and names: the gods and godesses of various ancient religions?

The Grail Message is widely available depending on your location. I suggest you check out the link below and from there you can access the Book Store for your country of residence:
http://shop.alexander-bernhardt.com/index.php?page=index&x77939=dbebd442d61e57b70e115ec80ba82c96

And for the illiterate also?

In addition to this, there are Grail Circles & Grail Centres in many cities of the world and there are helpers who are willing to guide those who are desirous of reading the Message in a language of their mother tongue in a Reader's Forum.

And in all languages also?

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