Your best bet is to give us a summary/cliff notes version of this essay

^
I already summarized jare.

isale_gan2: yeah, do that.

Ha! Isale! Where have you been?

Abi you don acquire your own personal collection of rugrats ni?

Glad to have you back. Yes, I might just change it to Yoruba Senator.

Whatchutalkinbout?

I didn't disappear for 3 months like you did.

Anyway, like any sane person around here, I love me some Kilode?!

isale_gan2: Whatchutalkinbout?

I didn't disappear for 3 months like you did.

Anyway, like any sane person around here, I love me some Kilode?!

Iyalode, I'm always around. . .in one form or another.

This professor needs your help o. Care to start a PAC?

Hmmm. Seriously? What are you planning, oga Kilode?! Finally ready to take over the world? Meet me at the other place.

Kilode!?: Entirely OT. But I'm reading this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/06/the-vietnam-solution/8969/?single_page=true

and finding it entirely fascinating. May want to check it out sometime.

ekt_bear: Kilode!?: Entirely OT. But I'm reading this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/06/the-vietnam-solution/8969/?single_page=true

and finding it entirely fascinating. May want to check it out sometime.

Thanks for sharing. I read it. So many take aways from that article. I'll read it again.

Kaplan is too knowledgable and "connected" to be ignored, although he's got a few things wrong in his career so far, he's pretty well respected.

This is interesting to me;

Chinese used to be the language of scholarship in Vietnam, just as Latin used to be in Europe. Through it all, Vietnamese peasant culture retained its uniqueness to a greater extent than did the culture of the Vietnamese elite. Among the elite, as the University of Michigan Southeast Asia expert Victor Lieberman explains, Chinese administrative norms were “internalized to the point that their alien origins became irrelevant

China and Vietnam, this their so close yet so far situation na wa sha.

He explained one of the problems arising from this as a "narcissism of small differences" a psychological phenomenon that causes people or communities in close proximity to ridicule and fight each other over the small things they see as differences. I see this a lot in the ethnic fights here

But I was really struck by the sheer quantity of oil and gas deposits in that region. The implications for Nigeria is massive on the long run. Just the other day we were reading about the decrease in export to America, if they develop that resource ( without a 3rd world war over it) we might end up selling most of our oil to Burkina faso for cheap or maybe we will fry dodo with the thing.

Reading that article made me realize that despite the problems that we think we (Yoruba and Nigerians more generally, I suppose) have, there are others with even more daunting challenges to face.

Personally I doubt their ability to maintain independence in the long run.

Definitely rooting for them, though.

Rooting for the underdog huh?

China is just too big both culturally and in all areas, it's amazing that they used to fear the Japanese and lost many territories and vassal states to them. Japan, that comparatively small but powerful island country was their main foe in east Asia. I'm not sure we can say that anymore.

So it's possible, but Vietnam will need powerful friends to stay independent of China. Friends like Japan and maybe India (if India can modernize quick enough).

One other lesson for us is that we need something to bind this country together beyond geography, oil and maybe football. We need Nationalism, the extreme kind is even looking attractive to me at this stage. Else we go diffrent ways.

I'm rewinding this thread in light of recent developments. Now that Farouk's name has officially changed to Facroook, it's important that we read Adeyeye's ideas again.

I have very little faith in current Nigerian legislators. But still, it will be great if this case can educate more Nigerians on the reason why our politics is dysfunctional, and show us how we can fix it by paying attention to the House of Assembly.

An assembly of unanimous nays and yeas cannot deliver robust politicking, worse when that assembly is dominated year in year out by a single political party.

I guess Adeyeye saw it coming, a corrupt legislature tied to the apron strings of a corrupt executive cannot fight any battle on behalf of the people that elected them.

Now Tambuwal and his band of thieves are asking the (police) and executive to prosecute oil subsidy thieves

Question: Does the HOA have the collective balls to challenge or compel the executive to do anything without succumbing to the temptation of $$bribes and Ghana-must-go Bags ??



I hope Adeyeye and others like him can get more like-minded folks to stand with them.

Please read his argument again on page one.

Kilode?!:
I'm rewinding this thread in light of recent developments. Now that Farouk's name has officially changed to Facroook, it's important that we read Adeyeye's ideas again.

I have very little faith in current Nigerian legislators.

Did you mean you have very little faith in Nigerians? Because I see no difference between Nigerians and "Nigerian legislators." They are all Nigerians.

But still, it will be great if this case can educate more Nigerians on the reason why our politics is dysfunctional, and show us how we can fix it by paying attention to the House of Assembly.

Making it sound like this is an isolated case. . . I have news for you, IT IS NOT. Corruption is in our blood! The notion that somewhow we ALL need to stop having s/e/x/ because someone, a prominent member of the society, is accused of hiding money in his babariga is just absurd. This post is an example of what is wrong with us as a people, especially the internet warriors. A glaring example of the follow-follow mindset of our so called educated youth. It is just an accusation, we all need to phocking chillax and let the authorities do their job. Until a guilty verdict is rendered, your "Mr. Facrook" is just as innocent as your homeboy Sola Adeyeye who your naively continue to uphold as the epitome of sainthood. It is just a matter of time before he is exposed, like the rest of us them Babariga wearing, irugbon-growing legislooters .

An assembly of unanimous nays and yeas cannot deliver robust politicking, worse when that assembly is dominated year in year out by a single political party.

Again, robust politicking isnt about party affiliation/dominance. Its about IDEAS; Original, creative, and progressive ideas. We need good policies, not multiple parties. Bola Ige wrote the the manifestos for PDP, ACN and ANPP, the rest simply copied from the three main parties. Simply stated, with respect to their outlook, THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. So what good is it to have them all scattered based on ethnicity. We might as well have them all under one umbrella.

I guess Adeyeye saw it coming, a corrupt legislature tied to the apron strings of a corrupt executive cannot fight any battle on behalf of the people that [b]RIGGED THEM them IN[/b].

Fixed!.

Now Tambuwal and his band of thieves are asking the (police) and executive to prosecute oil subsidy thieves

Now what do you want Tambuwal to do? Never mind, he is a thief . . . lets just give him the Bankole treatment. Crucify him before he gets his day in court. That is how real democracy is practiced.

Question: Does the HOA have the collective balls to challenge or compel the executive to do anything without succumbing to the temptation of $$bribes and Ghana-must-go Bags ??

HOA compelling the President to do something? What kind of democracy is that?

I hope Adeyeye and others like him can get more like-minded folks to stand with them.

More like-minded people like Farook of six months ago? or more like-minded people like Adeyeys of 2 years from now. Pick your poison, but be very very careful . . .

Probe to nowhere ko, bridge to nowhere ni

Fstranger, you probably misunderstood the point of it, although I believe you get it and I'm just about to explain what you already know:

What Adeyeye proposed is not necessarily novel, what I argued isn't either. He's basically asking us and his colleagues to look for and support a more adversarial brand of politicking. I believe he wants a system that can support the type of dog-eat-dog politics needed to keep everybody on their toes, he believes he can use the existing one for that purpose too. That's my understanding.

We can't stop humans from being selfish, but we can make corruption harder for people to get away with if we practice the kind of oversight our copy-copy democracy was designed for. It's nothing new really.

BTW. I don't think Adeyeye is a saint, but all that should not even matter if we have a system that sees humans for what they are, selfish beings. And design our system to fight that selfishness. Even if we have to play one arm of government against the other.

Also, I don't think Nigerians are incapable of this kind of accountability within the right system . I don't think our politicians are innately more corrupt than any other, I don't think we like corruption more than the Americans or Chinese or anyone else for that matter, what we have is an environment where corruption carries near zero consequences for the corrupt.

So Adeyeye, speaking to frustrated Nigerians and a few of his colleagues is suggesting that, rather than throw your hands up in defeat and helplessness, why not work within the imperfect system and squeeze some accountability out of the executive by using the things we still have control over ( I.e budget ) to force their hands so they can do what we want (e.g probe subsidy thieves).

It's not a fail proof suggestion and many legislators won't support him because they are already compromised ( hence my statement about not trusting them) but still, the idea is pragmatic, except you want people like him to raise armies or plan coups, I see very little else they can do.

Your last point hits at the reason why conversation like this is important, people need to understand that without a system to compel people to do the right thing, it will be foolish to place Farouk or Adeyeye on a pedestal of honesty. Yes, I want more people like Adeyeye and even Farouk, but more importantly I need a system that is smarter than corrupt individuals most of the time, If the system can work, we won't need saints Tambuwal, Farouk or Adeyeye, we just play one sides interest against the other. I doubt they will have the same interests all of the time.


I'm going out on a limb here by assuming that dollar bills are not the only overriding interest in Nigerian politics. Pride, power, ego, ethnocentrism, religious ideology, I believe are also interests and they cannot align perfectly ALL the time.



Anyway, Yes, I'm an Internet warrior, because as my elders will say, "ti Owo omode o ba te eku Ida kii bere iru iku to pa baba ohun". loosely trans->. ~ it's wiser to remain an Internet warrior until I acquire the resources to raise a real army"