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Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore - Religion - Nairaland

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Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Goshen360(m): 7:11pm On Jun 07, 2012
I was listening to a known popular Television evangelist by the name of Joseph Prince and guess what, he said "Heaven does not record the sins of believers even though you sin" Am like WHAT! This is a Grace perverted Gospel.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 4, Kjv

Jude 1:4
Contemporary English Version (CEV)

4 Some godless people have sneaked in among us and are saying, “God treats us much better than we deserve, and so it is all right to be immoral.” They even deny that we must obey Jesus Christ as our only Master and Lord. But long ago the Scriptures warned that these godless people were doomed.

Jude 1:4
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

4 Some people have slipped in among you unnoticed. Not long ago they were condemned in writing for the following reason: They are people to whom God means nothing. They use God’s kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Romans 6:1 Kjv

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 4:58pm On Jun 09, 2012
Yea its true dat he erred in dat. He also preaches once saved forever saved which is also wrong. He emphasizes on revelation but revelation is nt a passive thing. I like him as a person, he is a good teacher, have learnt a lot 4rm him but i'm nt a blind follower. Take a good sieve n get wht u want.

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Goshen360(m): 5:08pm On Jun 09, 2012
rhemaplus: Yea its true dat he erred in dat. He also preaches once saved forever saved which is also wrong. He emphasizes on revelation but revelation is nt a passive thing. I like him as a person, he is a good teacher, have learnt a lot 4rm him but i'm nt a blind follower. Take a good sieve n get wht u want.

You are one the best people I ever heard here on Nairaland like many other good people that tells the truth. I listen to him too and that is how I got to know he preaches a Grace perverted Gospel. If you don't have the word of God in you, how can you know when a MoG is preaching heresy? Also, Revelation doesn't contradict the canon of the scriptures.

Revelation is unfolding the deep things of God and it might be hard to chew for the babes in Christ but it doesn't contradict the canon of the scriptures. He is a good teacher as you said, but like you, I don't follow blindly a teaching or a message, I will prove and scan it by the word and the Holy Spirit. The funniest thing is that, he claims to teach this heresy by the Spirit of God, this is where I pause and place him where he belongs.

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by buzugee(m): 5:27pm On Jun 09, 2012
is he related to prince nelson ? grin
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 5:38pm On Jun 09, 2012
I quite agree with you. Though there is no preacher/teacher that does nt av one unbalanced truth or the other but dis is just to an extreme.
D annointing shld b our utmost teachers nt any man. One may nt b so sound in doctrine b4 u suspect dat a msg is nt right. Dis shld be our motivation whether babes or matured believer, otherwise one wil b confused in d midst of conflicting interpretatx. Our inner witness, 'bearens' careful study of d word n reliance on d H/S shld b our finality on any issue rather than gullibly following a man(we as they al knw in part). One of d reasons i feel why pple preach heresy is cos they want to say smthx 'new' n do nt take time to compare several scriptures b4 cming with a doctrine. He cald Kenneth Hagin hs father yet he didnt preach dis kind of msg. I just wish smone calls hm to order b4 he bcms anoda William Braham. God forbid
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by cyrexx: 9:28pm On Jun 09, 2012
do christians need to wash their dirty linens in the public.
every denomination can quote scriptures to justify everything they are doing, no matter how bizzare it is.
does that not mean that the bible itself is so full of self contradiction.
catholics, pentecostals, aladura, anglican, jehovah witnesses, christ embassy, deeper life etc all of them can quote scripture that "proves" that they are right while all others are wrong in one way or the other.
word of advice: stop washing your dirty linen in the public

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by 5solas(m): 10:00pm On Jun 09, 2012
rhemaplus: Yea its true dat he erred in dat. He also preaches once saved forever saved which is also wrong. He emphasizes on revelation but revelation is nt a passive thing. I like him as a person, he is a good teacher, have learnt a lot 4rm him but i'm nt a blind follower. Take a good sieve n get wht u want.

''Once saved , always saved'' is not a false doctrine. It was the main substance of the reformers' teachings.

Goshen360:

I was listening to a known popular Television evangelist by the name of Joseph Prince and guess what, he said[b] "Heaven does not record the sins of believers even though you sin"[/b] Am like WHAT! This is a Grace perverted Gospel.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jude 4, Kjv

Jude 1:4
Contemporary English Version (CEV)

4 Some godless people have sneaked in among us and are saying, “God treats us much better than we deserve, and so it is all right to be immoral.” They even deny that we must obey Jesus Christ as our only Master and Lord. But long ago the Scriptures warned that these godless people were doomed.

Jude 1:4
GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

4 Some people have slipped in among you unnoticed. Not long ago they were condemned in writing for the following reason: They are people to whom God means nothing. They use God’s kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Romans 6:1 Kjv

I read your post yesterday. Now I am wondering if you were not too swift to judge this man, whoever he is.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 10:02pm On Jun 09, 2012
Then theres no need for the ponkass to hide behind church.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by PrettyCindy(f): 12:02am On Jun 10, 2012
Yes, some preachers do nothing but preach the wrong message. A man of God telling his congregation that heaven does not keep record of our sins is simply telling them that they have the license to sin.

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Goshen360(m): 3:59am On Jun 10, 2012
5solas:

''Once saved , always saved'' is not a false doctrine. It was the main substance of the reformers' teachings.

I read your post yesterday. Now I am wondering if you were not too swift to judge this man, whoever he is.

I do NOT judge and if I judge, I judge righteously. One problem people like you have in the body of Christ (I don't mean insult) is that, you "think" everything preached by "famous" evangelist is truth and sound teaching. When we expose or refute such teachings, you simple say we are judging - The reason is that, people like you had been predicted to be among those that CANNOT withstand SOUND doctrines in the last days and that will heap up teachers for themselves to hear what you want to hear, NOT what God wants you to hear. If not so, you wont call this thread judgmental. Please, can you tell us what is judgmental in what I have just said and for people to be aware of his teachings. I don't have problem if he is one of your favourite preachers, what I care about is, we have the mandate as Christians to defend our faith and preserve the truth.

Do you know even Satan transform as angel of light? If as powerful as Apostle Paul is, more than all the new age teachers put together will teach and some people called the Bereans will still search the scriptures before they approve his teachings, who the heck you think any preacher of today is that we cannot expose or refute his heresies? The truth of the word of God that I stand to defend is that, GRACE OF GOD IS NOT A LICENSE TO CONTINUE TO SIN. Anyone who teaches or preaches any other Gospel than what the Apostles and Jesus preached, let him/her be accused. I am NOT a denominationist, I am a bible teacher and I prove ALL things by the word of God.

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Goshen360(m): 4:55am On Jun 10, 2012
This guy need to examine himself in his Gospel before it's too late. Seriously. I just heard Joseph Prince of the New Creation Church, Singapore teach on TBN live with Satelite with Matthew Crouch. I am not preaching condemnation to sinners but Joseph Prince just said, "WHILE a smoker is smoking, he should just see himself and confess himself as the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus even while smoking. While someone is watching a Indecency.graphy, or fornicating, he/she should not see him/her self as sinners but rather while fornicating/watching Indecency.graphy, he/she should confess him/her self as the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus" Is this the Gospel? I mean seriously, is this the Gospel? Like someone said, many of this new age preachers just want to say something new and therein, preach and teach heresies of the last days.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Peter 2:1 (Niv)

Notice, it says there WERE "false prophets among the people" of Old, there will be "false teachers among us". It was false prophets then but false teachers now. Why not false prophets then and false prophets now? but it says false teachers now. Because, many will not be able to withstand sound doctrines. Look at how they will operate and people don't notice that, "they will SECRETLY INTRODUCE DESTRUCTIVE HERESIES". Meaning, they will teach this "damnable or destructive heresies" in a subtly way that will seems attractive and sweet to the ears. We MUST watch out for this and the only way is to be ground and rooted in the word of God. That is how we know when someone is "secretly introducing damnable or destructive heresies".

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 1:12pm On Jun 10, 2012
No matter how much of "d gospel"a minister preaches,he'd stil find people who regard him as a false teacher.what is true 2 d catholics might be false 2 pentecostals.what pentecostals advocate,JWs and fundamentalist evangelicals might debunk.and yet Jws nd fundamentalists wud stil antagonize each other.d funny thing is dat al these groups use d same reference book n can provide constructive explanations to substantiate their respective claims from d same book.so,what is d true gospel 2 u might be false 2 another person who wud also tell u u'l perish if u dont accept his.infact,i found a site sometime ago where someone criticized kumuyi severely nd condemned his church's statement of doctrine/faith.this wud be almost unthinkable amongst d majority of nigerian xtians.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Goshen360(m): 2:13pm On Jun 10, 2012
^
The problem is NOT the Bible as being used as "reference" by these "everyone" who teach. The problem is "distortion" and "manipulating" the text and holding to the Apostolic teachings and that of Christ. These things are very clear in the bible and the false teachers had been predicted for long. So "some" people will definitely fulfill the prophecy and the saddest thing is that they will claim they are from God, it's all in the same bible.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by 5solas(m): 7:52pm On Jun 10, 2012
Goshen360:

I do NOT judge and if I judge, I judge righteously. One problem people like you have in the body of Christ (I don't mean insult) is that, you "think" everything preached by "famous" evangelist is truth and sound teaching. When we expose or refute such teachings, you simple say we are judging - The reason is that, people like you had been predicted to be among those that CANNOT withstand SOUND doctrines in the last days and that will heap up teachers for themselves to hear what you want to hear, NOT what God wants you to hear. If not so, you wont call this thread judgmental. Please, can you tell us what is judgmental in what I have just said and for people to be aware of his teachings. I don't have problem if he is one of your favourite preachers, what I care about is, we have the mandate as Christians to defend our faith and preserve the truth.


Thank you. Like I implied in my post,I do not even know the man. I was goaded by your statement below:

''You are one the best people I ever heard here on Nairaland like many other good people that tells the truth'' and this, in response to rhemaplus'
''Yea its true dat he erred in dat. He also preaches once saved forever saved which is also wrong''.
Do you have an idea, tell me if you do, how this doctrine came about? When? Do you have an idea how the converse doctrine (to the effect that a believer can lose salvation)came about? When?


Goshen360:

Do you know even Satan transform as angel of light? If as powerful as Apostle Paul is, more than all the new age teachers put together will teach and some people called the Bereans will still search the scriptures before they approve his teachings, who the heck you think any preacher of today is that we cannot expose or refute his heresies? The truth of the word of God that I stand to defend is that, GRACE OF GOD IS NOT A LICENSE TO CONTINUE TO SIN. Anyone who teaches or preaches any other Gospel than what the Apostles and Jesus preached, let him/her be accused. I am NOT a denominationist, I am a bible teacher and I prove ALL things by the word of God.

Agreed.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by danielene1: 8:43am On Aug 04, 2013
please understand the man, he has not said you are free to sin, but free from sin paul when he called the people of galatia "fools" did not ask for forgiveness when he wrote on, but remember what the bible says about those who call their brothers FOOL or RACA? so please don't judge him, but understand what he is saying.

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by ebenice(m): 7:45pm On Sep 16, 2015
lets be clear on this....is he really perverting o r his method of teaching is unusual

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Charisplus(f): 9:18am On Feb 03, 2016
As 5solas pointed out the message of "once saved always saved" was the one preached by the Reformers. The question now is "what was the cause of the Reformation by Martin Luther? If we have a good understanding of that it will help us on this issue.
The problem often times is that many of us do not even understand what really happened at the new birth in Christ. It is such a profound spiritual experience. The Bible says we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the final redemption of the body. I often wonder at those who say after one is saved and commits any sins he ceases to be saved. The Bible says you are saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. The gift of God that is what salvation is. So if you lose salvation over every sin committed then God takes back His gift and gives it back over and over as it is believed by some that when you commit sin you lose salvation but get it back after you confess/ do restitution/penance etc. There is no where in the Bible where this back and forth motion of being saved and losing it is found. If salvation was dependent on whether we commit sin or not and keeping laws/rules, then what was the point of Jesus coming to die? There were enough laws under the Old covenant yet after over a thousand years no man was found able to fully keep that law.
If anyone be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things have become new. If someone who is in Christ cannot be sure he is saved then what is the point of Christianity? Every other religion teaches keeping of laws/rules/doing good deeds to obtain "salvation" and even then you are not very sure you can make it. Christianity is the only "religion" that gives that assurance and the reason is because it is not dependent on you or what you do but on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. It is either you accept that Jesus' work(He died for your sins - present, past and future sins) on the Cross is enough or He has to come to die again or we need another sacrifice for sins!

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by suckmywilly(m): 11:49am On Feb 03, 2016
Charisplus:
As 5solas pointed out the message of "once saved always saved" was the one preached by the Reformers. The question now is "what was the cause of the Reformation by Martin Luther? If we have a good understanding of that it will help us on this issue.
The problem often times is that many of us do not even understand what really happened at the new birth in Christ. It is such a profound spiritual experience. The Bible says we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the final redemption of the body. I often wonder at those who say after one is saved and commits any sins he ceases to be saved. The Bible says you are saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. The gift of God that is what salvation is. So if you lose salvation over every sin committed then God takes back His gift and gives it back over and over as it is believed by some that when you commit sin you lose salvation but get it back after you confess/ do restitution/penance etc. There is no where in the Bible where this back and forth motion of being saved and losing it is found. If salvation was dependent on whether we commit sin or not and keeping laws/rules, then what was the point of Jesus coming to die? There were enough laws under the Old covenant yet after over a thousand years no man was found able to fully keep that law.
If anyone be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things have become new. If someone who is in Christ cannot be sure he is saved then what is the point of Christianity? Every other religion teaches keeping of laws/rules/doing good deeds to obtain "salvation" and even then you are not very sure you can make it. Christianity is the only "religion" that gives that assurance and the reason is because it is not dependent on you or what you do but on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. It is either you accept that Jesus' work(He died for your sins - present, past and future sins) on the Cross is enough or He has to come to die again or we need another sacrifice for sins!
No truer words have been said.

1 Like

Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by 5solas(m): 12:05pm On Feb 06, 2016
Charisplus:
As 5solas pointed out the message of "once saved always saved" was the one preached by the Reformers. The question now is "what was the cause of the Reformation by Martin Luther? If we have a good understanding of that it will help us on this issue.
The problem often times is that many of us do not even understand what really happened at the new birth in Christ. It is such a profound spiritual experience. The Bible says we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the final redemption of the body. I often wonder at those who say after one is saved and commits any sins he ceases to be saved. The Bible says you are saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. The gift of God that is what salvation is. So if you lose salvation over every sin committed then God takes back His gift and gives it back over and over as it is believed by some that when you commit sin you lose salvation but get it back after you confess/ do restitution/penance etc. There is no where in the Bible where this back and forth motion of being saved and losing it is found. If salvation was dependent on whether we commit sin or not and keeping laws/rules, then what was the point of Jesus coming to die? There were enough laws under the Old covenant yet after over a thousand years no man was found able to fully keep that law.
If anyone be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things have become new. If someone who is in Christ cannot be sure he is saved then what is the point of Christianity? Every other religion teaches keeping of laws/rules/doing good deeds to obtain "salvation" and even then you are not very sure you can make it. Christianity is the only "religion" that gives that assurance and the reason is because it is not dependent on you or what you do but on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. It is either you accept that Jesus' work(He died for your sins - present, past and future sins) on the Cross is enough or He has to come to die again or we need another sacrifice for sins!

Very sound post.
How I desire people know that the view that salvation can be lost -Arminianism - was sponsored by Jacobus Arminius and his followers about the first fifteen years of the seventeenth century. Their teachings were condemned by the Synod of Dordt. Their departure from the protestant church was the first and remain the most significant break from Protestantism.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by 4nobody4every1: 12:31pm On Feb 06, 2016
Charisplus:
As 5solas pointed out the message of "once saved always saved" was the one preached by the Reformers. The question now is "what was the cause of the Reformation by Martin Luther? If we have a good understanding of that it will help us on this issue.
The problem often times is that many of us do not even understand what really happened at the new birth in Christ. It is such a profound spiritual experience. The Bible says we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the final redemption of the body. I often wonder at those who say after one is saved and commits any sins he ceases to be saved. The Bible says you are saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. The gift of God that is what salvation is. So if you lose salvation over every sin committed then God takes back His gift and gives it back over and over as it is believed by some that when you commit sin you lose salvation but get it back after you confess/ do restitution/penance etc. There is no where in the Bible where this back and forth motion of being saved and losing it is found. If salvation was dependent on whether we commit sin or not and keeping laws/rules, then what was the point of Jesus coming to die? There were enough laws under the Old covenant yet after over a thousand years no man was found able to fully keep that law.
If anyone be in Christ, he is a new creature, old things are passed away and all things have become new. If someone who is in Christ cannot be sure he is saved then what is the point of Christianity? Every other religion teaches keeping of laws/rules/doing good deeds to obtain "salvation" and even then you are not very sure you can make it. Christianity is the only "religion" that gives that assurance and the reason is because it is not dependent on you or what you do but on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross. It is either you accept that Jesus' work(He died for your sins - present, past and future sins) on the Cross is enough or He has to come to die again or we need another sacrifice for sins!
Succinctly put and l agree with your post cool

1 Like

Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by promisechuks: 8:38am On Mar 08, 2016
The problem with you pharisee-self righteous-holier than thou christians is that the veil of self righteousness(moses) is too much on your eyes that moses has blinded them in knowing the gravity, essence of christ's finished work(PAID).

That's why when they don't see this, they will start to frustrate jesus. These people say they follow jesus, but in the way they live are not following Jesus but moses. They ignorantly value moses(the dead man) more than jesus(the living). That's what happen when a believer is living with the notion that christianity is a religion. And knowing fully well, that all religion has laws except christianity which shouldn't be viewed as religion, they keep themselves in absolute bondage by living under "thou thou thou".



But ask yourself this question; why will God keep the record of the sins of a believer that was laid, dealt with, punished on christ at the cross, which he said he will remembered NO MORE? Why? because the penalty of those sin was paid by christ.

What is the essence of believing that christ is the ransom and the sacrifice of our sins?

If God, after punishing the sins of the whole world(past, present and future)on christ, will still punished a believer for the sins he committed, which he punished christ for. Then, how will you say that christ is the sacrifice for our sins? Sorry, if so then christ was not sacrificed but MUDERED

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Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by ayoku777(m): 9:33am On Mar 08, 2016
promisechuks:
The problem with you pharisee-self righteous-holier than thou christians is that the veil of self righteousness(moses) is too much on your eyes that moses has blinded them in knowing the gravity, essence of christ's finished work(PAID).

That's why when they don't see this, they will start to frustrate jesus. These people say they follow jesus, but in the way they live are not following Jesus but moses. They ignorantly value moses(the dead man) more than jesus(the living). That's what happen when a believer is living with the notion that christianity is a religion. And knowing fully well, that all religion has laws except christianity which shouldn't be viewed as religion, they keep themselves in absolute bondage by living under "thou thou thou".



But ask yourself this question; why will God keep the record of the sins of a believer that was laid, dealt with, punished on christ at the cross, which he said he will remembered NO MORE? Why? because the penalty of those sin was paid by christ.

What is the essence of believing that christ is the ransom and the sacrifice of our sins?

If God, after punishing the sins of the whole world(past, present and future)on christ, will still punished a believer for the sins he committed, which he punished christ for. Then, how will you say that christ is the sacrifice for our sins? Sorry, if so then christ was not sacrificed but MUDERED

If heaven does not take account of our sinful works, why will some believers suffer loss for their sins at the judgment seat of Christ?

1Cor 3v14 -If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Can a christian suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for something heaven did not take account of or put in record against him?

If our sins are never taken into account and are automatically forgiven and written off by God whether we repent of them or not, will Jesus Himself say this to the churches?

Rev 2v5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2v16 - Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2v22 -Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


Christ Himself was the one talking here. These are all of His impending judgment upon believers who refuse to repent among the churches.

If sins are not taken into account by God or are automatically forgiven, would Jesus give all these stern warning to believers if they fail to repent?

All these proofs that our sins have consequences in this age and will make us suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ if we don't repent.

Not every sin is unto death, but every sin is unto demotion. Carnal and sinful works are taken into account, and will be judged by Christ in this age and at His judgment seat. And some believers will suffer loss for their sins.

Shalom!
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by promisechuks: 12:55pm On Mar 08, 2016
ayoku777:


If heaven does not take account of our sinful works, why will some believers suffer loss for their sins at the judgment seat of Christ?

1Cor 3v14 -If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.




15  If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Can a christian suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for something heaven did not take account of or put in record against him?

If our sins are never taken into account and are automatically forgiven and written off by God whether we repent of them or not, will Jesus Himself say this to the churches?

Rev 2v5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2v16 - Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2v22 -Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


Christ Himself was the one talking here. These are all of His impending judgment upon believers who refuse to repent among the churches.

If sins are not taken into account by God or are automatically forgiven, would Jesus give all these stern warning to believers if they fail to repent?

All these proofs that our sins have consequences in this age and will make us suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ if we don't repent.

Shalom!

First of all, you are trying to contradict the scripture with another. Hence, making people think that the scripture that was written by the inspiration of the holy spirit is confusing and contradicting. Whenever the holyspirit is giving revelation, he is always concise and not manipulating tendencies.

For you to understand the scripture, in accordance to the mind of God, you have to judge and view the whole scriptures using one language- Jesus, the one sure foundation, which is CHRIST'S FINISHED WORK

The reason why many christians have not seen and felt the gravity of christ's sacrifice is that, they try to judge christ's finished work with their own experiences, sins, problems and people's experience because the veil of moses is TOO MUCH on their eyes.

And that's why many of them are not sure whether they will later make heaven AT THE END. Because in there daily living words like; "many were call but few are chosen", "narrow is the way", "the first shall be the last" and many like words, subjecting them to fear, condemnation, sin-consciousness, self-relying(self-righteous) and finally doubt of their salvation, that's why in every minute of their life they ask for forgiveness because of the fear of death which takes them to judgement.

But why do these people doubt their salvation, trying to earn a gift(righteousness) that has been freely given even when you were not in christ?

When you try to earn or merit a gift, then it's no longer a gift to you but a reward.

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward!

Some pharisee-self righteous-christians think that eternal life is what will be given at the judgement day. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

When you believe in the entire finished work of christ, you are given the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(eternal life/everlasting life). Not because you are doing the right thing but because you ONLY believe in christ finished work.

You may find it difficult to believe the previous paragraph, but if you do, I challenge you to bring up any verse in the NT that says; BELIEVE(faith)+LIVE RIGHTLY(works)=ETERNAL LIFE.

Am I saying we should not live rightly? No! My emphasis is that we should stop depending on our right living(works) to get justified before God, because the justification that we need before God has been done freely by Jesus. Rom3:24; "Being justified FREELY(not right living) by his grace through the redemption that is in christ jesus.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by ayoku777(m): 1:44pm On Mar 08, 2016
promisechuks:


First of all, you are trying to contradict the scripture with another. Hence, making people think that the scripture that was written by the inspiration of the holy spirit is confusing and contradicting. Whenever the holyspirit is giving revelation, he is always concise and not manipulating tendencies.

For you to understand the scripture, in accordance to the mind of God, you have to judge and view the whole scriptures using one language- Jesus, the one sure foundation, which is CHRIST'S FINISHED WORK

The reason why many christians have not seen and felt the gravity of christ's sacrifice is that, they try to judge christ's finished work with their own experiences, sins, problems and people's experience because the veil of moses is TOO MUCH on their eyes.

And that's why many of them are not sure whether they will later make heaven AT THE END. Because in there daily living words like; "many were call but few are chosen", "narrow is the way", "the first shall be the last" and many like words, subjecting them to fear, condemnation, sin-consciousness, self-relying(self-righteous) and finally doubt of their salvation, that's why in every minute of their life they ask for forgiveness because of the fear of death which takes them to judgement.

But why do these people doubt their salvation, trying to earn a gift(righteousness) that has been freely given even when you were not in christ?

When you try to earn or merit a gift, then it's no longer a gift to you but a reward.

Eternal life is a gift and not a reward!

Some pharisee-self righteous-christians think that eternal life is what will be given at the judgement day. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

When you believe in the entire finished work of christ, you are given the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(eternal life/everlasting life). Not because you are doing the right thing but because you ONLY believe in christ finished work.

You may find it difficult to believe the previous paragraph, but if you do, I challenge you to bring up any verse in the NT that says; BELIEVE(faith)+LIVE RIGHTLY(works)=ETERNAL LIFE.

Am I saying we should not live rightly? No! My emphasis is that we should stop depending on our right living(works) to get justified before God, because the justification that we need before God has been done freely by Jesus. Rom3:24; "Being justified FREELY(not right living) by his grace through the redemption that is in christ jesus.

Did I tell you that salvation is by works, or that what we do right or wrong is what determines our righteousness.

You said all our sins, past, present and future have being paid for and forgiven by Christ. And I showed you statements made by Jesus Himself, outlining what will happen to believers who don't repent.

Does that not show you that there is no automatic forgiveness for sins we don't repent of? Or can someone suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for a sin that that has been "automatically" forgiven.

Salvation is by faith alone, and we don't lose it unless we depart from the faith. But even so, heaven takes our sins into account and if we don't repent of them, we will suffer loss for them in the judgment of Christ, even though it won't cost us salvation and eternal life, if we don't depart from the faith.

You are wrong that heaven does not take record of the sins of believers. The warning of Jesus to the churches in Revelation proved you wrong.

I'm not saying carnality can cost us our salvation. A carnal christian is called a "babe IN CHRIST" -meaning he is still in Christ. The only sin that can cost a believer his salvation is unbelief or departure from the faith.

But carnality has consequences in this age and in the age to come. Carnality will cost us our crown and demote us in the kingdom of God, among other losses. And if we let it degenerate into unbelief (departure from the faith), it will cost us our salvation too. It is a lie that all our sins are automatically forgiven and written off.

Shalom

2 Likes

Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by promisechuks: 1:01am On Mar 09, 2016
ayoku777:


If heaven does not take account of our sinful works, why will some believers suffer loss for their sins at the judgment seat of Christ?

1Cor 3v14 -If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.



Can a christian suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for something heaven did not take account of or put in record against him?

If our sins are never taken into account and are automatically forgiven and written off by God whether we repent of them or not, will Jesus Himself say this to the churches?

Rev 2v5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2v16 - Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2v22 -Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


Christ Himself was the one talking here. These are all of His impending judgment upon believers who refuse to repent among the churches.

If sins are not taken into account by God or are automatically forgiven, would Jesus give all these stern warning to believers if they fail to repent?

All these proofs that our sins have consequences in this age and will make us suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ if we don't repent.

Not every sin is unto death, but every sin is unto demotion. Carnal and sinful works are taken into account, and will be judged by Christ in this age and at His judgment seat. And some believers will suffer loss for their sins.

Shalom!
Pertaining to salvation and righteousness of God, no amount of right living can give earn it, that's why it's freely given. And you know what? You can't maintain it by works/right living. Your right living/righteousness CAN NEVER maintain what your righteousness couldn't earn . If you are controversial with this put forward any single bible verse to disprove it for proper analysis.


As regards to this verse, we have to explain it, not based on what we think, imagination and tendencies, but on the basis of the FULL knowledge of the one sure foundation provided by God, christ finished work.

There are differences between works of flesh, works of righteousness(self righteousness)and works of salvation. Works of salvation is simply know as our ACHIEVEMENT made by utilising the grace of God. Example; "you won 10000 soul to christ", "you helped 100 poor kids through scholarship", labouring abundantly to express God's love to people around you either by spreading the Gospel or any other grace-empowered way. Another example; Microsoft is accounted unto bill gate as a work of salvation because of the grace of God, if he believes, these works are not restricted to winning souls, no!


Another example: No man will remember kenneth hagin for his work of righteousness/right living, but for sure he will be remembered for his works of salvation which may include; his write-ups, books, video tapes, crusade events, the healing power of God demonstrated by him and many more. You got it?

More example? Yes! from the scriptures. 1cor.15vs10; but by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I LABOURED(work of salvation not works of righteousness/right living) MORE ABUNDANTLY THAN THEY ALL; yet not I but the grace of God which with me."

"......more abundantly than they all", you don't measure right living but you measure works of salvation because they are your achievement made recognisable before God by grace. In that statement paul used "more...than", because he was speaking in comparison to the works of other believers who had lesser works/achievement by grace than his works and achievements by grace.

With the understanding of what I have explained, read that 1cor.3:1-end to understand the full revelation there. Because the entire chapter is talking about works of salvation.


That chapter is an UNVEILING OF THE MYSTRIES BEHIND THE PARABLES OF THE TEN TALENT, because jesus would have said those things in the first place, but because they(jews) were too carnal, he spoke to them in parables. Remember, at a point he said something like "I have many things to tell you, but the problem is that you lack the power to comprehend it" and he started to talk about the spirit of truth that will be sent to help the church understand the revelation he will be bringing forth into the church through vessels like paul, peter, john e.t.c.


Now, according to the parable, we have been given the grace(talent) freely as a GIFT of righteousness(eternal life) to first of all, make us FREELY justified, with NO DEMAND of right living. If controversial, I challenge you to refute it with BIBILICAL verse and not imaginary thoughts or experiences for proper analysis.

And secondly, to empower us, not only to live rightly, but also to achieve greater achievement and works, either in soul winning or promoting the lives of people around us for the kingdom of God. These are main few purpose of grace(talent), especially for our justification, for us.


Now that verse you quoted 1cor.3:14-15 says;"14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he SHALL RECEIVED A REWARD. 15.If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."

Deduction: in vs 14;".....SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD"
Q&A: Reward for what? For right living? No! You don't build right living because right living cannot be seen as achievement. For works of salvation/achievements in grace? Yes! You build achievement in grace/works of salvation.

Q&A: What is the reward for our works of salvation as expressed in the above verse according to paul?

Now see this, we have gift and reward, this two things are totally different but confuse people a lot.
Gift is for free, no work. Reward is not for free, a work MUST be involved as the MERIT of the reward.

When you believe in christ, you are given a GIFT of eternal life(that grants you heaven), when you utilise the grace of God properly, to achieve your works of salvation for the kingdom of God, you are rewarded afterlife with, what the bible calls, a CROWN OF VICTORY.

Eternal life is a GIFT but crown of victory is a REWARD which is administered based on your accomplished works/achievements of a believer for the kingdom.


As regards to 1cor.3:15, SUFFERING LOSS, doesn't mean a denial of eternal life but a denial of crown(hope of glory). It's a loss because your works, not matter how many years you have been in the lord since you are unserious to labour for the kingdom works, will be considered vain. So paul was not talking about the sins of a believer that has being dealt with, forgiven and forgotten about at the cross heb.10:17.

At the judgement day, we, who believe(not just know, but really believe) in the finished work of christ, will not be judged of our faults, imperfection, sins and mistakes, because it was judged and condemned to death on the body of christ at the cross. And through that sacrifice, we have been made NON GUILTY OF THE SINS AND MISTAKES WE COMMITTED.

So, our judgement will be based on our works of salvation/achievement. The only kind of Judgement that will be passed on believers is the kind expressed in 1cor.3:1-end, and not judgement of sin, because we have been made innocent by christ's payment. There is no sense in judging an innocent man.


But in the case of unbelievers, they are judge of their sins, because they didn't accept the man that was judged and condemned to death for their sins, so they have to pay for their sins with their own life which is by death.


Let me stop here.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by facheux: 1:06am On Mar 09, 2016
promisechuks:

Pertaining to salvation and righteousness of God, no amount of right living can give earn it, that's why it's freely given. And you know what? You can't maintain it by works/right living. Your right living/righteousness CAN NEVER maintain what your righteousness couldn't earn . If you are controversial with this put forward any single bible verse to disprove it for proper analysis.


As regards to this verse, we have to explain it, not based on what we think, imagination and tendencies, but on the basis of the FULL knowledge of the one sure foundation provided by God, christ finished work.

There are differences between works of flesh, works of righteousness(self righteousness)and works of salvation. Works of salvation is simply know as our ACHIEVEMENT made by utilising the grace of God. Example; "you won 10000 soul to christ", "you helped 100 poor kids through scholarship", labouring abundantly to express God's love to people around you either by spreading the Gospel or any other grace-empowered way. Another example; Microsoft is accounted unto bill gate as a work of salvation because of the grace of God, if he believes, these works are not restricted to winning souls, no!


Another example: No man will remember kenneth hagin for his work of righteousness/right living, but for sure he will be remembered for his works of salvation which may include; his write-ups, books, video tapes, crusade events, the healing power of God demonstrated by him and many more. You got it?

More example? Yes! from the scriptures. 1cor.15vs10; but by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I LABOURED(work of salvation not works of righteousness/right living) MORE ABUNDANTLY THAN THEY ALL; yet not I but the grace of God which with me."

"......more abundantly than they all", you don't measure right living but you measure works of salvation because they are your achievement made recognisable before God by grace. In that statement paul used "more...than", because he was speaking in comparison to the works of other believers who had lesser works/achievement by grace than his works and achievements by grace.

With the understanding of what I have explained, read that 1cor.3:1-end to understand the full revelation there. Because the entire chapter is talking about works of salvation.


That chapter is an UNVEILING OF THE MYSTRIES BEHIND THE PARABLES OF THE TEN TALENT, because jesus would have said those things in the first place, but because they(jews) were too carnal, he spoke to them in parables. Remember, at a point he said something like "I have many things to tell you, but the problem is that you lack the power to comprehend it" and he started to talk about the spirit of truth that will be sent to help the church understand the revelation he will be bringing forth into the church through vessels like paul, peter, john e.t.c.


Now, according to the parable, we have been given the grace(talent) freely as a GIFT of righteousness(eternal life) to first of all, make us FREELY justified, with NO DEMAND of right living. If controversial, I challenge you to refute it with BIBILICAL verse and not imaginary thoughts or experiences for proper analysis.

And secondly, to empower us, not only to live rightly, but also to achieve greater achievement and works, either in soul winning or promoting the lives of people around us for the kingdom of God. These are main few purpose of grace(talent), especially for our justification, for us.


Now that verse you quoted 1cor.3:14-15 says;"14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he SHALL RECEIVED A REWARD. 15.If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."

Deduction: in vs 14;".....SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD"
Q&A: Reward for what? For right living? No! You don't build right living because right living cannot be seen as achievement. For works of salvation/achievements in grace? Yes! You build achievement in grace/works of salvation.

Q&A: What is the reward for our works of salvation as expressed in the above verse according to paul?

Now see this, we have gift and reward, this two things are totally different but confuse people a lot.
Gift is for free, no work. Reward is not for free, a work MUST be involved as the MERIT of the reward.

When you believe in christ, you are given a GIFT of eternal life(that grants you heaven), when you utilise the grace of God properly, to achieve your works of salvation for the kingdom of God, you are rewarded afterlife with, what the bible calls, a CROWN OF VICTORY.

Eternal life is a GIFT but crown of victory is a REWARD which is administered based on your accomplished works/achievements of a believer for the kingdom.


As regards to 1cor.3:15, SUFFERING LOSS, doesn't mean a denial of eternal life but a denial of crown(hope of glory). It's a loss because your works, not matter how many years you have been in the lord since you are unserious to labour for the kingdom works, will be considered vain. So paul was not talking about the sins of a believer that has being dealt with, forgiven and forgotten about at the cross heb.10:17.

At the judgement day, we, who believe(not just know, but really believe) in the finished work of christ, will not be judged of our faults, imperfection, sins and mistakes, because it was judged and condemned to death on the body of christ at the cross. And through that sacrifice, we have been made NON GUILTY OF THE SINS AND MISTAKES WE COMMITTED.

So, our judgement will be based on our works of salvation/achievement. The only kind of Judgement that will be passed on believers is the kind expressed in 1cor.3:1-end, and not judgement of sin, because we have been made innocent by christ's payment. There is no sense in judging an innocent man.


But in the case of unbelievers, they are judge of their sins, because they didn't accept the man that was judged and condemned to death for their sins, so they have to pay for their sins with their own life which is by death.


Let me stop here.

No one died for my sins. I will be judged for my sins and non sinful actions & held to account.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 2:40am On Mar 09, 2016
cyrexx:
do christians need to wash their dirty linens in the public.
every denomination can quote scriptures to justify everything they are doing, no matter how bizzare it is.
does that not mean that the bible itself is so full of self contradiction.
catholics, pentecostals, aladura, anglican, jehovah witnesses, christ embassy, deeper life etc all of them can quote scripture that "proves" that they are right while all others are wrong in one way or the other.
word of advice: stop washing your dirty linen in the public
It's not our linen.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 2:42am On Mar 09, 2016
Goshen360:


I do NOT judge and if I judge, I judge righteously. One problem people like you have in the body of Christ (I don't mean insult) is that, you "think" everything preached by "famous" evangelist is truth and sound teaching. When we expose or refute such teachings, you simple say we are judging - The reason is that, people like you had been predicted to be among those that CANNOT withstand SOUND doctrines in the last days and that will heap up teachers for themselves to hear what you want to hear, NOT what God wants you to hear. If not so, you wont call this thread judgmental. Please, can you tell us what is judgmental in what I have just said and for people to be aware of his teachings. I don't have problem if he is one of your favourite preachers, what I care about is, we have the mandate as Christians to defend our faith and preserve the truth.

Do you know even Satan transform as angel of light? If as powerful as Apostle Paul is, more than all the new age teachers put together will teach and some people called the Bereans will still search the scriptures before they approve his teachings, who the heck you think any preacher of today is that we cannot expose or refute his heresies? The truth of the word of God that I stand to defend is that, GRACE OF GOD IS NOT A LICENSE TO CONTINUE TO SIN. Anyone who teaches or preaches any other Gospel than what the Apostles and Jesus preached, let him/her be accused. I am NOT a denominationist, I am a bible teacher and I prove ALL things by the word of God.
Well put.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by Nobody: 2:46am On Mar 09, 2016
All the extreme grace evangelists here, please provide specific scriptures for your points.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by cckris: 3:05am On Mar 09, 2016
cyrexx:
do christians need to wash their dirty linens in the public.
every denomination can quote scriptures to justify everything they are doing, no matter how bizzare it is.
does that not mean that the bible itself is so full of self contradiction.
catholics, pentecostals, aladura, anglican, jehovah witnesses, christ embassy, deeper life etc all of them can quote scripture that "proves" that they are right while all others are wrong in one way or the other.
word of advice: stop washing your dirty linen in the public
You're not a Christian.
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by ayoku777(m): 3:41am On Mar 09, 2016
promisechuks:

Pertaining to salvation and righteousness of God, no amount of right living can give earn it, that's why it's freely given. And you know what? You can't maintain it by works/right living. Your right living/righteousness CAN NEVER maintain what your righteousness couldn't earn . If you are controversial with this put forward any single bible verse to disprove it for proper analysis.


As regards to this verse, we have to explain it, not based on what we think, imagination and tendencies, but on the basis of the FULL knowledge of the one sure foundation provided by God, christ finished work.

There are differences between works of flesh, works of righteousness(self righteousness)and works of salvation. Works of salvation is simply know as our ACHIEVEMENT made by utilising the grace of God. Example; "you won 10000 soul to christ", "you helped 100 poor kids through scholarship", labouring abundantly to express God's love to people around you either by spreading the Gospel or any other grace-empowered way. Another example; Microsoft is accounted unto bill gate as a work of salvation because of the grace of God, if he believes, these works are not restricted to winning souls, no!


Another example: No man will remember kenneth hagin for his work of righteousness/right living, but for sure he will be remembered for his works of salvation which may include; his write-ups, books, video tapes, crusade events, the healing power of God demonstrated by him and many more. You got it?

More example? Yes! from the scriptures. 1cor.15vs10; but by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I LABOURED(work of salvation not works of righteousness/right living) MORE ABUNDANTLY THAN THEY ALL; yet not I but the grace of God which with me."

"......more abundantly than they all", you don't measure right living but you measure works of salvation because they are your achievement made recognisable before God by grace. In that statement paul used "more...than", because he was speaking in comparison to the works of other believers who had lesser works/achievement by grace than his works and achievements by grace.

With the understanding of what I have explained, read that 1cor.3:1-end to understand the full revelation there. Because the entire chapter is talking about works of salvation.


That chapter is an UNVEILING OF THE MYSTRIES BEHIND THE PARABLES OF THE TEN TALENT, because jesus would have said those things in the first place, but because they(jews) were too carnal, he spoke to them in parables. Remember, at a point he said something like "I have many things to tell you, but the problem is that you lack the power to comprehend it" and he started to talk about the spirit of truth that will be sent to help the church understand the revelation he will be bringing forth into the church through vessels like paul, peter, john e.t.c.


Now, according to the parable, we have been given the grace(talent) freely as a GIFT of righteousness(eternal life) to first of all, make us FREELY justified, with NO DEMAND of right living. If controversial, I challenge you to refute it with BIBILICAL verse and not imaginary thoughts or experiences for proper analysis.

And secondly, to empower us, not only to live rightly, but also to achieve greater achievement and works, either in soul winning or promoting the lives of people around us for the kingdom of God. These are main few purpose of grace(talent), especially for our justification, for us.


Now that verse you quoted 1cor.3:14-15 says;"14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he SHALL RECEIVED A REWARD. 15.If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."

Deduction: in vs 14;".....SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD"
Q&A: Reward for what? For right living? No! You don't build right living because right living cannot be seen as achievement. For works of salvation/achievements in grace? Yes! You build achievement in grace/works of salvation.

Q&A: What is the reward for our works of salvation as expressed in the above verse according to paul?

Now see this, we have gift and reward, this two things are totally different but confuse people a lot.
Gift is for free, no work. Reward is not for free, a work MUST be involved as the MERIT of the reward.

When you believe in christ, you are given a GIFT of eternal life(that grants you heaven), when you utilise the grace of God properly, to achieve your works of salvation for the kingdom of God, you are rewarded afterlife with, what the bible calls, a CROWN OF VICTORY.

Eternal life is a GIFT but crown of victory is a REWARD which is administered based on your accomplished works/achievements of a believer for the kingdom.


As regards to 1cor.3:15, SUFFERING LOSS, doesn't mean a denial of eternal life but a denial of crown(hope of glory). It's a loss because your works, not matter how many years you have been in the lord since you are unserious to labour for the kingdom works, will be considered vain. So paul was not talking about the sins of a believer that has being dealt with, forgiven and forgotten about at the cross heb.10:17.

At the judgement day, we, who believe(not just know, but really believe) in the finished work of christ, will not be judged of our faults, imperfection, sins and mistakes, because it was judged and condemned to death on the body of christ at the cross. And through that sacrifice, we have been made NON GUILTY OF THE SINS AND MISTAKES WE COMMITTED.

So, our judgement will be based on our works of salvation/achievement. The only kind of Judgement that will be passed on believers is the kind expressed in 1cor.3:1-end, and not judgement of sin, because we have been made innocent by christ's payment. There is no sense in judging an innocent man.


But in the case of unbelievers, they are judge of their sins, because they didn't accept the man that was judged and condemned to death for their sins, so they have to pay for their sins with their own life which is by death.


Let me stop here.

I have use all these lines before and preached it before too. So I know the root of this error.

Let me ask you, all the warnings of judgment Jesus gave to the churches in revelation if they don't repent, is it for works of salvation or for sinful lifestyle post-salvation?

Rev 2v5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2v16 - Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 2v22 -Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


You said Christians will not be judged for their sins, yet in all these verses Jesus kept talking to believers about what will happen if they do not repent of their sins and carnality. This is not reward for works of salvation as you're trying to make it look, but judgment against carnality.

If sins are automatically forgiven, should Jesus give this stern warning to unrepentant believers?

And I wrote this reply earlier, which you ignored.

ayoku777:
Did I tell you that salvation is by works, or that what we do right or wrong is what determines our righteousness.

You said all our sins, past, present and future have being paid for and forgiven by Christ. And I showed you statements made by Jesus Himself, outlining what will happen to believers who don't repent.

Does that not show you that there is no automatic forgiveness for sins we don't repent of? Or can someone suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ for a sin that that has been "automatically" forgiven.

Salvation is by faith alone, and we don't lose it unless we depart from the faith. But even so, heaven takes our sins into account and if we don't repent of them, we will suffer loss for them in the judgment of Christ, even though it won't cost us salvation and eternal life, if we don't depart from the faith.

You are wrong that heaven does not take record of the sins of believers. The warning of Jesus to the churches in Revelation proved you wrong.

I'm not saying carnality can cost us our salvation. A carnal christian is called a "babe IN CHRIST" -meaning he is still in Christ. The only sin that can cost a believer his salvation is unbelief or departure from the faith.

But carnality has consequences in this age and in the age to come. Carnality will cost us our crown and demote us in the kingdom of God, among other losses. And if we let it degenerate into unbelief (departure from the faith), it will cost us our salvation too. It is a lie that all our sins are automatically forgiven and written off.

And about that 1Cor 3. You said that scripture is talking about the works of salvation or achievements. That's not true.

1Cor 3v12 - Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

What does it mean to build on Christ with wood, hay and stubble? Wood, hay and stubble refer to iniquity or carnality.

2Tim 2v19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21  If a man therefore purge himself from these (iniquities), he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.


Can you see from these verse? A vessel of wood and earth, is a vessel of dishonour, one who has not purged himself from iniquities and carnalities by growing in Christlikeness.

So going back to 1Cor 3v12; to build on Christ with wood, hay and stubble is to build on Christ in carnality, to do the work of Christ in unchristlikeness. Wood, hay and stubble represent the works of the flesh or works done in the flesh.

And scripture says those who build on Christ with wood, hay and stubble will have their works burnt at the judgment seat of Christ.

1Cor 3v15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Meaning believers who do the work of Christ in unchristlikeness will suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ.

These shows clearly that our Christlikeness or unchristlikeness post-salvation will determine our reward or loss at the jugment seat of Christ. It is not just what we did that will be rewarded but the Christlikeness or carnality in which we did it.

Our Christlikeness does not determine our salvation, but it determines our reward in the age to come. We are not just called to have the life of Christ in our spirit, but also to have the lifestyle of Christ in our soul. Our success or failure in having the lifestyle of Christ determines our glorification in the age to come and our greatness in the kingdom of God.

We will be judged for our lifestyles too as believers and rewarded for our Christlikeness post-salvation. Heaven takes into record our lifestlye, and carnal believers will suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ as Paul warned, and as Jesus warned the churches in revelation.

Shalom!
Re: Grace Perverted Gospel - Beware Of Joseph Prince. New Creation Church, Singapore by analice107: 11:53am On Mar 09, 2016
facheux:


No one died for my sins. I will be judged for my sins and non sinful actions & held to account.
As you can see, this is a christian discussion, not Islam, depart in piss to you piss loving section. Piss

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