Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,143,328 members, 7,780,826 topics. Date: Thursday, 28 March 2024 at 11:31 PM

If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? (18918 Views)

If God Knew Satan, Adam And Eve Would Sin, Why Did He Create Them? / If God Knew That Adam And Eve Would Sin, Why Did He Create Them? / The Catholic Pope Francis- There Is No Heaven Or Hell And Adam And Eve Not Real (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (13) (Reply) (Go Down)

If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by haibe(m): 10:18am On Jun 11, 2012
Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?

2 Likes

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Laryokeke: 10:29am On Jun 11, 2012
I used to ask such questions too but you must realize that not everything can be explained.

People don't believe in Christianity because its true. They believe in it because they've been programmed to by the environment and we can't also ignore the fact that it affects lives positively.

Hence, reason should be abrogated while faith is perpetrated.

You need to ignore questions like this one as you'll never find answers to them and they'll only confuse you. In the end, no argument can prove or disprove that the whole Christianity thing is real or fake
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Areaboy2(m): 10:30am On Jun 11, 2012
good question. So much for knowing "the beginning and the end". "he" is basically having a laugh then. undecided


the flaws in the bible are pretty much countless. Asides that, you believe the story of Adam and Eve to be true?. much more a "serpent" tricking them and all the ck n bull that follows.

Dont forget, everything should work out according to his grand plan.

One question though, do you know the history of all three Abrahamic religions??


Laryokeke: I used to ask such questions too but you must realize that not everything can be explained.

People don't believe in Christianity because its true. They believe in it because they've been programmed to by the environment and we can't also ignore the fact that it affects lives positively.

Hence, reason should be abrogated while faith is perpetrated.

You need to ignore questions like this one as you'll never find answers to them and they'll only confuse you. In the end, no argument can prove or disprove that the whole Christianity thing is real or fake


basically what you are saying is, since no one can prove of disprove, you'll just follow them either way just incase? tongue
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:55am On Jun 11, 2012
haibe:

Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?

Your question is appropriate but you have only been thinking in a particular perspective. If you are a parent or rather since you are a child to your parents do you think your parents will be blamed if they have brought you up the best way they can but you decided to turn to crime in adulthood?

What 'am trying to say is that God made us in His own image and gave us the freedom to choose good or bad, life or death and our decisions will determine where we would spend our eternity, either in heaven or hell.

This does not remove from God's omniscience, the fact that He knows all things does not force us into making a choice, He has given us freedom and freedom comes with responsibility. Anyone who decides to use their freewill to disobey God will have to live with the consequences that is the price of freedom.

Adam and satan had a choice to either obey or disobey God but unfortunately they made the wrong choice and suffered the consequence which we are still suffering today, but thanks be to God througth the last Adam who paid the price for our sins and then gave us the grace to choose not to sin which is by faith in His precious blood that was shed on the Cross we receive His mercy, pardon and forgiveness.

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Jenwitemi(m): 11:14am On Jun 11, 2012
At least, as a human being under the grip of religion, you are starting to ask the right questions. Keep it up, bro.
haibe: Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?

1 Like

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Jenwitemi(m): 11:17am On Jun 11, 2012
Human parents are neither omnipotent nor omniscient like the bible god, olaadegbu. Bad analogy.
OLAADEGBU:

Your question is appropriate but you have only been thinking in a particular perspective. If you are a parent or rather since you are a child to your parents do you think your parents will be blamed if they have brought you up the best way they can but you decided to turn to crime in adulthood?

What 'am trying to say is that God made us in His own image and gave us the freedom to choose good or bad, life or death and our decisions will determine where we would spend our eternity, either in heaven or hell.

This does not remove from God's omniscience, the fact that He knows all things does not force us into making a choice, He has given us freedom and freedom comes with responsibility. Anyone who decides to use their freewill to disobey God will have to live with the consequences that is the price of freedom.

Adam and satan had a choice to either obey or disobey God but unfortunately they made the wrong choice and suffered the consequence which we are still suffering today, but thanks be to God througth the last Adam who paid the price for our sins and then gave us the grace to choose not to sin which is by faith in His precious blood that was shed on the Cross we receive His mercy, pardon and forgiveness.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 11:18am On Jun 11, 2012
God did not know better
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Jenwitemi(m): 11:25am On Jun 11, 2012
God - at least the bible version - is way overrated. He is nowhere near as omniscient or omnipotent as most people think. Remember the was "he" was looking for Adam and Eve in the book of genesis? Well, so much for his omniscience.
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by chikaliki: 11:44am On Jun 11, 2012
The secret things belong unto the LORD our God; but
those things which are revealed belong unto us and to
our children forever, that we may do all the words of this
law
Deut 29:29

1 Like

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Areaboy2(m): 12:31pm On Jun 11, 2012
chikaliki: The secret things belong unto the LORD our God; but
those things which are revealed belong unto us and to
our children forever, that we may do all the words of this
law
Deut 29:29


that's what they blind you with. what is the secret here? an obvious c0ckup by the guys who invented these ideas should be over looked because it is supposedly a secret?

right!
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Dambudzo: 12:59pm On Jun 11, 2012
Laryokeke: I used to ask such questions too but you must realize that not everything can be explained.


Why ? To me this sounds like a cope out !
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:43pm On Jun 11, 2012
Jenwitemi:

Human parents are neither omnipotent nor omniscient like the bible god, olaadegbu. Bad analogy.

The point I was making is that God cannot be held responsible for the choices we make since He has created us as free moral agents. You will not be held accountable for the crimes of your adult children as long as you brought them up well.

1 Like

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Image123(m): 1:44pm On Jun 11, 2012
haibe: Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?
my understanding of this may not be complete, or perfectly right, but allow me make this input. Heck i don't fully understand my family, my neighbours, even myself, it doesn't bother me much or cause me to disbelieve God because i don't understand Him fully. Nobody can fully understand God, not in this flesh at least. Nobody is omniscient but God, so i don't have all the answers, and neither do you, yes you the reader. So no point scorning others for not knowing what you don't also know. God is a Spirit, He is in another realm, not ours. To my understanding, we do not clearly understand the concept of omniscience. Omniscience tells us that nothing can be hidden from God by anyone, basically. Freewill puts a sort of comma on our concept of omniscience. i think God knows in phases, what i mean is He knows from the beginning, not before the beginning.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
May not be the perfect analogy, but consider a pregnant woman going to the lab. The experts can tell her the gender of the baby, the position, and even when she would give birth to the child. That's foreknowledge and true. If the woman gets careless, and has a miscarriage or pre-mature, it's not meaning that the experts were wrong about the day of delivery and other information. i think its a similar but more complex and perfect thing with omniscience. One other thing to note is that all the diagnoses cannot be made or concluded until the woman got pregnant. Perhaps, until satan or adan and eve were made, it could not be said what would happen. yes, God determined the courses and the purposes for their creation, even before their formation but i don't think(I'M THINKING HERE PLS, IT'S NOT A DOCTRINE OR LAW FOR ANYBODY TO CARRY ON HIS/HER HEAD) He knew they would suffer or fall BEFORE the beginning. Just my take, no hard feelings i beg you.

1 Like

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by chikaliki: 2:04pm On Jun 11, 2012
chikaliki: The secret things belong unto the LORD our God; but
those things which are revealed belong unto us and to
our children forever, that we may do all the words of this
law
Deut 29:29



that's what they blind you with. what is the secret here? an obvious c0ckup by the guys who invented these ideas should be over looked because it is supposedly a secret?

right!

@ AREA BOY.It appears you are really lost in this world, but I assure you that all hope is not lost, you only have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour so that you may reign with Him. Back to your question as the supposedly secret, you need to search out the answer by yourself. see Prov. 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Dear, you are king here on earth, exercise your kingship by searching the word of God
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by ichuka(m): 2:08pm On Jun 11, 2012
Though He was a SON,yet learned He Obedience by the things which He suffered...Heb5:8.
And being found in appearance as a Man,He humbled Himself and became Obedient to death even death on a Cross.therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name that is above every name,that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,in heaven and on the earth and under the earth,and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,to the glory of God the Father..phillpns2:8-11.
Obedience was initiated and established in the universe by The SON.
In the begining Authority cannot be established in the universe without Obedience,since it(Authority) cant exist alone.God knew His Authority cannot be established in the created beings(angels and man) because the symbol of Obedience has not been established then.
But a day came The Son emptied Himself and being born in the likeness of men,He became the symbol of Obedience.inasmuch as rebellion came from the created beings,so Obedience must now be established in a created being.man sinned and rebelled;therefore the Authority of God must be created on man's Obedience.
The creation itself was fully established on the Cross when He said "It is done"He did not mean that just Salvation has been secured,but that everything He(His name The SON represent Obedience)represent have been accomplish.
Whosoever believes In the SON,in the past,present and future shall have Enternal life..Jhn11:25-26.
God looks for the symbol of Obedience which is His SON in us.
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Ayomivic(m): 2:27pm On Jun 11, 2012
Area_boy:

that's what they blind you with. what is the secret here? an obvious c0ckup by the guys who invented these ideas should be over looked because it is supposedly a secret?

right!

Then ,what do you suggest we do about this so call God if we do not totally understand him?
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by alexleo(m): 4:33pm On Jun 11, 2012
haibe: Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?


The problem with u people is that u ve not experienced genuine born again thats why you keep doubting God. If you experience this genuine salvation that transforms your life instantly and you see yourself hating sin. The evil things you use to do you find yoursef hating them instantly. You feel the presence of the spirit of God in you. You begin to desire to do righteous things. You beign to have such a deep love for God and the things of God. You begin to experience righteousnes, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost then you wont doubt God. We cant fully understand God 100 percent just like husband and wife does not understand each other 100 percent till they die. We keep understanding God as we live on earth and when we get to heaven we continue to know more about him and even better. I ll advise you people to strive and enter heaven so as to know Him more. Dont miss Heaven.
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Jenwitemi(m): 4:39pm On Jun 11, 2012
Why can't "he" not be held responsible when he's supposed to know everything in advance? Did God (according to the bible) brought the devil up well, in your view? What is the universe, anyway? A video game or something?
OLAADEGBU:

The point I was making is that God cannot be held responsible for the choices we make since He has created us as free moral agents. You will not be held accountable for the crimes of your adult children as long as you brought them up well.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:55pm On Jun 11, 2012
Jenwitemi:

Why can't "he" not be held responsible when he's supposed to know everything in advance? Did God (according to the bible) brought the devil up well, in your view? What is the universe, anyway? A video game or something?

God created everything perfect (Genesis 1:31). The fact that He knows everything does not stop the free will of satan or man. God knows the end from the beginning and that does not stop us from taking responsibility for the choices we make. If He created us as robots then we can blame Him if we go wrong. Since we are not robots but free moral agents we are all accountable to God our Creator at the end of the day to give an account of how we have used our freedom. Have we chosen life or death? Our decision determines our destiny.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Ayomivic(m): 6:00pm On Jun 11, 2012
haibe: Am a christian and still one but something borders me, God is omniscient and knows the end from the beginning, he knew satan and adam and eve will sin S̶̲̥̅Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡ why did he create them since he knows the reward of sin is death and according to Jesus only few will be saved(mattew 7:14), There are now millions of people who are
burning, in agony, faces creased in
incessant pain, torment beyond
imagination, limbs torn, emotions stretched
like rubber that can never break and in a
world of pain for ETERNITY.
For them my heart grieves so strongly that
it brings tears to my eyes……But God knew
this would happen. I find it very difficult
to separate the God that we are supposed
to follow by “faith” and one that would
‘create’ knowing that there would be so
much carnage for so few survivors.
Why did God d̶̲̅σ this?

Have you seen someone to give correct answer to this question that was boring you ? You can not find answer to this question for it mystery, Only God can answer that. There are many related questions to that human being can not provide answer to . Like origin of God etc.

God had told us what he wants from us. He wants us to do his will but he did not compel us. He gave us chance to choose by ourself. If we regect him as athiests were advising us to do that mean, we are saying we have power to face his judgement.

Let say athiests are right. If we die and we do not apear to any place call heaven or get to heaven and there is nothing like God do christians have something to loose? No. Unlike athies if christians were right,if there is God, what we be the faith of all athiest who rebel against God. If Muslims are right, christians has nothing to loose for Muslims say all mankind who later save after some punishement.

What did God asks of of us?To worship him and always do good. How does that difficult for us to do. What he asks of us is it for our benefits or his benefits. Thou shall not steal ,thou shall not kill etc .Is that reason you hate him ?Can you steal God things or kill him? No.

It is very unwise to say there is no God. I am sorry to say this but we can not hide truth. If any body will want me believe there is no God or to join athiesim, let that person do one thing for me just one thing. You know we eat when hungry, we use cars to avoid trecking, we use drug to cure or prevent sickness or diseases. Let someone stop death then i will say there is no God and become athiest. I have been saying this and i will continue say this .It enough evidence to know there is God . Where is that greatest scientice or medical practitioner that can do this ?

To cut the long story short, I think we should do what concerning us and stop peeping too much on things that we can not provide answer or solution to. If you are Christian , why do they call you believers ? Was it not because of what you did not see that you believed ? Remeber the meaning of faith as bible told us . Let us keep it up there is reward for it. If there will be much carnage and so few survivors let struggle to be among that few survivors as Jesus advised.

1 Like

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by alexleo(m): 7:23pm On Jun 11, 2012
Ayomivic:

Have you seen someone to give correct answer to this question that was boring you ? You can not find answer to this question for it mystery, Only God can answer that. There are many related questions to that human being can not provide answer to . Like origin of God etc.

God had told us what he wants from us. He wants us to do his will but he did not compel us. He gave us chance to choose by ourself. If we regect him as athiests were advising us to do that mean, we are saying we have power to face his judgement.

Let say athiests are right. If we die and we do not apear to any place call heaven or get to heaven and there is nothing like God do christians have something to loose? No. Unlike athies if christians were right,if there is God, what we be the faith of all athiest who rebel against God. If Muslims are right, christians has nothing to loose for Muslims say all mankind who later save after some punishement.

What did God asks of of us?To worship him and always do good. How does that difficult for us to do. What he asks of us is it for our benefits or his benefits. Thou shall not steal ,thou shall not kill etc .Is that reason you hate him ?Can you steal God things or kill him? No.

It is very unwise to say there is no God. I am sorry to say this but we can not hide truth. If any body will want me believe there is no God or to join athiesim, let that person do one thing for me just one thing. You know we eat when hungry, we use cars to avoid trecking, we use drug to cure or prevent sickness or diseases. Let someone stop death then i will say there is no God and become athiest. I have been saying this and i will continue say this .It enough evidence to know there is God . Where is that greatest scientice or medical practitioner that can do this ?

To cut the long story short, I think we should do what concerning us and stop peeping too much on things that we can not provide answer or solution to. If you are Christian , why do they call you believers ? Was it not because of what you did not see that you believed ? Remeber the meaning of faith as bible told us . Let us keep it up there is reward for it. If there will be much carnage and so few survivors let struggle to be among that few survivors as Jesus advised.

Thanks dear. Again we cannot see God with our physical eyes but we feel his presence in our heart. Just like we cannot see the wind but feel it when it blows. Thats its good to have a genuine born again experience which makes you feel God's presence. For those of us who have had this experience nothing can make us believe there is no God. But for those so called christians who have not had this experience they are the ones easily carried away by the so called logic of the atheists.
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Laryokeke: 8:27pm On Jun 11, 2012
Just what i thought! A full page of sentimental and pointless arguments and who has proved or disproved anything? No one!

Just follow whichever suits you jo and forget about questions without answers
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Jenwitemi(m): 9:02pm On Jun 11, 2012
Is religion life then? Is subjecting yourself to dogmatic indoctrination choosing life? I don't think so, olaadegbu. Religion is DEATH.
OLAADEGBU:

God created everything perfect (Genesis 1:31). The fact that He knows everything does not stop the free will of satan or man. God knows the end from the beginning and that does not stop us from taking responsibility for the choices we make. If He created us as robots then we can blame Him if we go wrong. Since we are not robots but free moral agents we are all accountable to God our Creator at the end of the day to give an account of how we have used our freedom. Have we chosen life or death? Our decision determines our destiny.
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 9:14pm On Jun 11, 2012
let me contribute to this topic by stating another perspective to the question that the op has raised

religionists here should pls note that i am in no way trying to convert anybody into atheism and shd pls not crucify me. every body shd follow what suits them best. (personally i found no evidence for god while others may or may not, so atheism suits me best).

If there is a God and in order for him to know everything, he has to know not only about all the unknown galaxies and extrasolar planetary systems and where all the undiscovered diamond mines and my missing socks are located, he also has to know everything about himself. He has to know what he is going to think next. He has to anticipate that he is going to need to know what he is going to think next, and after that into the infinite future.

The Christian (and Islamic) God cannot be both omniscient and omnibenevolent (all-loving and all-good). If God were omniscient, then he knew when he created Adam that Adam would sin. He knew human beings would suffer. Regardless of whether the existence of evil can be theologically explained, an all-knowing Creator deliberately placed humans in its path. This is at least criminal negligence, if not malice. Those who invoke “free will” forget that we all act according to a human nature that was supposedly created by God himself. You can argue all around the bushes on this point, but you can’t get away from the fact that Adam did not create his own nature. At the moment of creation, an omniscient deity would have been picturing the suffering and damnation of most of his creation. This is mean-spirited. The problem of evil gives the lie to the claim that a god can be both all-good and all-powerful.

What do believers mean when they say their god is all-powerful? (Let’s ignore the fact that the biblical God is weaker than chariots of iron, according to Judges 1:19.)


If God knows in advance that there will be evil as a direct or indirect result of his actions, then he is not all good. He is at least partly responsible for the harm. Since God has the desire and the power to eliminate evil, why doesn’t he?

If God truly is all-knowing and all-powerful, then he is not omnibenevolent when he does not stop unnecessary harm. This is especially true when he is asked to do so by his children, who claim to love him (and he them) and who pray for his protection, believing he meant it when he said that “All things whatsoever you shall ask in prayer believing, you shall receive.” Since the success of such praying is no better than random chance, we have empirical evidence that God, if he exists, does not care. He cannot possibly be all three “omnis” at once. How could he have created an angel named Lucifer who possessed some quirk in his character that would cause him to go wrong? If this were deliberate, then God is an accessory to evil. If it were accidental, then God is not omnipotent.

Omnipotence contradicts omniscience. To be omniscient means that all future facts are known to the person who is all-knowing. This means that the set of knowable facts is fixed and unchangeable. If facts cannot be changed, then this limits the power of God. If God knows what will happen tomorrow, then he is impotent to change it. If he changes it anyway, then he was not omniscient.

Peace.

2 Likes

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by buzugee(m): 9:22pm On Jun 11, 2012
cyrexx: let me contribute to this topic by stating another perspective to the question that the op has raised

religionists here should pls note that i am in no way trying to convert anybody into atheism and shd pls not crucify me. every body shd follow what suits them best. (personally i found no evidence for god [/b]while others may or may not, so atheism suits me best).

If there is a God and in order for him to know everything, he has to know not only about all the unknown galaxies and extrasolar planetary systems and where all the undiscovered diamond mines and my missing socks are located,[b] he also has to know everything about himself
. He has to know what he is going to think next. He has to anticipate that he is going to need to know what he is going to think next, and after that into the infinite future.

The Christian (and Islamic) God cannot be both omniscient and omnibenevolent (all-loving and all-good). If God were omniscient, then he knew when he created Adam that Adam would sin. He knew human beings would suffer. Regardless of whether the existence of evil can be theologically explained, an all-knowing Creator deliberately placed humans in its path. This is at least criminal negligence, if not malice. Those who invoke “free will” forget that we all act according to a human nature that was supposedly created by God himself. You can argue all around the bushes on this point, but you can’t get away from the fact that Adam did not create his own nature. At the moment of creation, an omniscient deity would have been picturing the suffering and damnation of most of his creation. This is mean-spirited. The problem of evil gives the lie to the claim that a god can be both all-good and all-powerful.

What do believers mean when they say their god is all-powerful? (Let’s ignore the fact that the biblical God is weaker than chariots of iron, according to Judges 1:19.)


If God knows in advance that there will be evil as a direct or indirect result of his actions, then he is not all good. He is at least partly responsible for the harm. Since God has the desire and the power to eliminate evil, why doesn’t he?

If God truly is all-knowing and all-powerful, then he is not omnibenevolent when he does not stop unnecessary harm. This is especially true when he is asked to do so by his children, who claim to love him (and he them) and who pray for his protection, believing he meant it when he said that “All things whatsoever you shall ask in prayer believing, you shall receive.” Since the success of such praying is no better than random chance, we have empirical evidence that God, if he exists, does not care. He cannot possibly be all three “omnis” at once. How could he have created an angel named Lucifer who possessed some quirk in his character that would cause him to go wrong? If this were deliberate, then God is an accessory to evil. If it were accidental, then God is not omnipotent.

Omnipotence contradicts omniscience. To be omniscient means that all future facts are known to the person who is all-knowing. This means that the set of knowable facts is fixed and unchangeable. If facts cannot be changed, then this limits the power of God. If God knows what will happen tomorrow, then he is impotent to change it. If he changes it anyway, then he was not omniscient.

Peace.
Evidence for God ? DEUTERONOMY 28 VS 48 you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. THE LORDS PROPHESY AGAINST ISRAEL ABOUT 5000 YEARS AGO. THE PROPHESY BECAME FULFILLED ABOUT 4500 YEARS LATER IN THE 1700s http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/babyboy84/untitled-1.jpg
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Ptolomeus(m): 9:24pm On Jun 11, 2012
Dear friend:
I try to explain something. Sometimes, we create an image that is not real. You are convinced that God is "something", but you thought it might be different?
For example:
1. The price of sin is always death. Abraham, Solomon, Noah and many others were adulterers, and God never punished however. He did not even reprimanded.
2. You believe in god "good" spoken of in the New Testament. But this god is the same as in the Old Testament demanded sacrifices of virgins and children for him.
3. That God has punished his people many times, with terrible plagues, wars ... killed their children with the flood ... a criminal act that hit the earth ...
If you can understand that God is not all the good that many say will understand that he did not mind creating Satan, not punish Adam and Eve ... and condemn them and us for that original sin.
I do not mean to offend anyone, but the biblical god has little "good".
It suffices to read the Bible.
My regards
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by cyrexx: 9:35pm On Jun 11, 2012
buzugee: Evidence for God ? DEUTERONOMY 28 VS 48 you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you. THE LORDS PROPHESY AGAINST ISRAEL ABOUT 5000 YEARS AGO. THE PROPHESY BECAME FULFILLED ABOUT 4500 YEARS LATER IN THE 1700s http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/babyboy84/untitled-1.jpg

dear buzugee,
that verse can be interpreted in so many different and contradicting ways. i can look up any other verse in the bible and put any meaning that suits my theology to it just like every different branch of christianity does and they came out with contradictory "truths"
that does not prove anything
besides are you saying it is not god that reveals himself to muhammed and gave him quran with so many "prophecies" like the one you just quoted above
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by buzugee(m): 9:36pm On Jun 11, 2012
cyrexx:

dear buzugee,
that verse can be interpreted in so many different and contradicting ways. i can look up any other verse in the bible and put any meaning that suits my theology to it just like every different branch of christianity does and they came out with contradictory "truths"
that does not prove anything
besides are you saying it is not god that reveals himself to muhammed and gave him quran with so many "prophecies" like the one you just quoted above
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/babyboy84/untitled-1.jpg deut 28 vs 48
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by ea7(m): 10:03pm On Jun 11, 2012
answer=cuz he is an idiot
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by ea7(m): 10:04pm On Jun 11, 2012
id/i/ot
Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by nedostic: 11:01pm On Jun 11, 2012
My take on this topic is that we cannot fully have a grasp of the Living God with our carnal knowledge. The Living God is a spirit and defiles all human logic and knowledge.

I have a probing mind just like the OP but many a time I have come to realize the fact that man is limited in his own knowledge mostly when it comes to spiritual matters. There are so many questions as it pertains the Bible that would always generate heated arguments with our human senses but only the Living God can unravel some of these answers to us.

I believe what is of import to any Christian now is to try as much as s(he) could to live a puritanical life wile asking God for continuous mercy because righteousness cannot be attained by one's work alone.

Jesus Christ is Lord!

2 Likes

Re: If God Knew Satan Will Rebel And Adam And Eve Will Sin, Why Did He Create Them? by Nobody: 12:30am On Jun 12, 2012
Best thread EVER! Very nice responses on both sides. Kudos OP

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (13) (Reply)

Can You Attend A Church Led By A Woman? / Enugu Pastor Arrested For Defrauding Church Members Of 500Million (Photo) / Story Behind The Hymn, "When I Survey The Wondrous Cross"

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 105
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.