I BEGIN IN THE NAME OF THE SUPREME BEING...GOD ALMIGHTY!!

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Adapted From: 19 Questions for Muslim Scholars.



[size=15pt]1) Which Hadith Do You Believe Besides The Quran? (45:6)[/size]


>>"The Prophet never urinated in standing position" (Hanbel 6/136,192,213).

>>"The prophet urinated in standing position" (Bukhary 4/60,62).

>>"A group from the Ureyneh and Uqayleh tribes came to the prophet and the prophet advised them to drink urine of camels. Later on, when they killed the prophet's shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert" (Bukhary 56/152, Hanbel 3/107,163).

>>"Moses was scared by the angel of death, thus Moses slapped him and blinded one of his eyes".

>>"I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people" (Bukhary 97/36).

>>"Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah" (Bukhary 65/4,5; Hanbel 1/205,242,440).

>>"Bad luck is in the woman, the horse, and the home" (Bukhary 76/53).

>>"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhary 8/102; Hanbel 4/86).

>>"The prophet gave permission to kill children and women in war" (Bukhari, Jihad/146; Ebu Davud 113).

>>"The earth is carried on a giant bull; when it shakes its head an earthquake occurs" (Ibni Kathir 2/29; 50/1).

>>"Leaders have to be from the Quraish tribe" (Bukhary 3/129,183; 4/121; 86/31).

>>"You shall kill all black dogs; because they are devils" (Hanbel 4/85; 5/54).

>>"God is the time" (Muwatta 56/3).

>>"To prove His identity, God opened his legs and showed the prophet His thigh." (Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and the comment on the Sura 68.)

>>"The parchment that the verse about stoning to death for adultery was written on was eaten and abrogated by a goat." (Ibni Majah 36/1944; Ibni Hanbal 3/61; 5/131,132,183; 6/269).

>>"A tribe of monkeys arrested an adulterous monkey and stoned it to death, and I helped them" (Bukhary 63/27).

>>"When the prophet died his armor had been pawned to a Jew for several pounds of barley." (Bukhari 34/14,33,88; Hanbal 1/ 300; 6/42,160,230).

>>"The punishment for cutting the fingers of a woman is to pay her: 10 camels for one finger, 20 camels for two fingers, 30 camels for three fingers, and 20 (twenty) camels for four fingers" (Hanbel 2/182; Muvatta 43/11).

>>"The prophet had been bewitched by a Jew, and for several days he did not know what he was doing" (Bukhari 59/11; 76/47; Hanbel 6/57; 4/367).

>>"Muhammad possessed sexual power of 30 men" (Bukhary).

>>"Do not eat and drink with your left hand, because Satan eats and drinks with the left hand" (Hanbel 2/8,33).

>>"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me except the Quran. Whoever wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel 3/12,21,39).

>>"The prophet ordered Amr Ibn As to write everything that he speaks" (Hanbel 2/162).

>>"Omar said: Quran is enough for us, do not write anything from the prophet" (Bukhary, Jihad 176, Gizya 6, Ilim 49, Marza 17, Megazi 83, Itisam 26; Muslim, Vasiyya 20,21,22).


(If you want to check the references presented above, please note that, after the name of each hadith collection the first number is the number of the book (chapter), and second number is the number of hadith. For instance, 152nd hadith in the 56th book of Bukhary is expressed as: Bukhary 56/152. In few references, however, we gave the name of the book (chapter), instead of its number, such as: Bukhary, Jihad 176).

These are only a minute sample of hadiths which Muslim scholars accept as their second religious source and they accuse the people who do not accept these teachings of being diverted from the truth. The above hadiths are their truth. Now let's see what is the Quranic truth. Quran, the whole Quran, and nothing but Quran


[size=13pt]QUR'ANIC PERSPECTIVE:[/size]

>>God revealed the Quran to Muhammad, His messenger and last prophet (27:6).

>>The only book that the messenger delivered to the world is the Quran (6:19).

>>The sole mission of the messenger is to deliver the message (16:35).

>>We must obey God's messengers (3:31-32; 24:56). Anyone who disobeys God and His messenger is a disbeliever (72:23).

>>We have been commanded to follow the Quran alone (7:2-3; 17:46).

>>The Quran contains everything that we need for guidance (16:89).

>>God did not leave anything out of the Quran (6:38).

>>Wisdom (hikmah) is in God's Quran; not necessarily in men's hadith (17:39; 36:2).

>>Anything that is not commanded in the Quran, God left it up to our minds and intelligence to decide (5:101).

>>The Prophet Abraham was the founder of Islam and a good example for us (22:78; 2:135; 60:4).

>>Muhammad was the follower of Abraham (3:68; 16:123).

>>All religious practices; daily prayers, obligatory charity, fasting, and pilgrimage come through Abraham (21:73; 2:43,127-128; 2:183; 3:43; 19:31-59; 20:14).

>>We should not follow any hadith besides the Quran as the source of God's religion (45:6).

>>There are those who use vain hadith to mislead people, without knowledge (31:6).

>>We do not need fabricated hadith, because the Quran is fully detailed (12:111).

>>The best hadith is the Quran (39:23).

>>The only sunnah (law) is God's sunnah (33:38,62; 35:43).

>>Those who decree religious laws never authorized by God, and their followers, are idol worshipers (42:21).

>>The Quran is fully detailed, not vague (30:28; 41:3).

>>Quran has been explained and detailed by God Himself (11:1; 75:19).

>>God is the teacher of the Quran (55:1).

>>The Quran is easy to understand for believers; while it is impossible for idol worshipers (54:17,22,32,40; 17:46; 18:57).

>>The Prophet Muhammad, as a good example, did not accept and follow any other source besides the Quran (5:48-49; 6:114; 10:15).

>>God guaranteed the preservation of the Quran, not the hadith (15:9; 36:69; 38:87; 41:42; 43:4; 56:78).

>>God's word is perfect (6:115). Those who follow conjecture are diverted (6:112).

>>God does not forget (19:64).

>>God does not run out of words (18:109).

>>Those who are not certain about the hereafter, are not satisfied with the Quran, they want to amend it with other books (10:15).

>>Those who divide their religion into sects are not followers of Muhammad (6:159).

>>The complaint of the messenger in the hereafter will be about the desertion of the Quran, not hadith (25:30)


[size=13pt]The same mistake[/size]

The Jews had received the Torah which was complete and fully detailed like the Quran (6:154; 7:145). However, they were not satisfied with the word of God, and asked irrelevant questions. When they could not find answers to their petty questions, they started to invent. This satanic attitude led them to produce Mishnah (oral) and Gemarah (traditions).

Just like the Jews, the Muslims fabricated many lies and attributed them to the prophet. It is significant that they called their fabrications Hadith (oral) and Sunna (traditions), similar to Jews. The ignorant people asked many irrelevant and absurd questions which have been criticized in the Quran (2:67-70; 5:101). For instance, which hand shall we use while eating? Which side shall we lay while sleeping? Which foot shall we enter with into the bathroom? Which hand shall we start to wash for ablution? How long shall we grow our beards? Which sequence shall we follow when we cut our nails? Which vegetables are most holy? These foolish questions encouraged many hypocrites to fabricate hadiths and attribute them to the prophet (6:112-116). It is significant that the most reliable books, for instance that of Bukhary, was written at least two centuries after the prophet died.
The Quranic prophecy about 'hadith' and 'sunnah'

The Quran prophesied that enemies of the prophet Muhammad would fabricate lies and attribute them to him(6:112-116). The Quran has named these fabrications "hadith" while naming the Quran "ahsanal hadith" (best hadith) (39:23). Obviously, God knew that the idol worshipers would call those fabrications "Hadith". It is interesting that they did not call their lies "Aqwal = sayings", "Akhbar = narrations", "Hikam = Aphorisms", or any other word from the rich Arabic language. They unwittingly termed their inventions "Hadith.". This is a fulfillment of the Quranic projection:

"This is not a fabricated Hadith. It is a confirmation of previous scriptures, detailing everything, and a guide and mercy for those who believe." (12:111)


They claim that the Quran is not fully detailed!! They thus reject God's repeated assertion that the Quran is "complete, perfect, and fully detailed" (6:19,38,114), and justify the creation of 60 volumes of Hadith, and thousands of nonsensical teachings that are supposed to complete the Quran. By reflecting on 12:111 above, one can see God's answer to those fabrications.


God informs us that we do not need fabricated hadith; that the Quran is all we need. Almighty God rejects both "Hadith" and the basic excuse for accepting it as a source of Islam. No excuse is accepted from the followers of hadith in this world, nor on the Day of Judgment. God asks them:
In which hadith, besides God and His revelations do they believe? (45:6)

They reply: "We believe in Bukhary, Muslim, Tirmizy, Ibn Hanbal, Kafi, Nahjul Balaga, and more besides God's revelations."


[size=13pt]God challenges the idol worshipers:[/size]

>>"Let them produce a hadith(narration) like this(Quran), if they are truthful." (52:34)

As a response, they slander the prophet in one of their holy hadith books (Abu Dawood): "The prophet, peace be upon him, said, 'I was given the Quran and a hadith like it'."

According to the Quran, there is only one valid sunna (law): God's law (Sunnatullah) (33:38,62; 35:43; 40:85; 48:23).
Unlimited hadith books besides the Quran

In both Sunni and Shiah sects the exact number of accepted hadith books is not known. However, Sunnis generally agree on six hadith books which are called "Kutubi Sitteh" (Six Books). These are Bukhary, Muslim, Tirmizy, Ibni Majah, Nesaiy and Abu Dawud. Additionally, they respect Muwatta, Darimy and Ibn Hanbal. Muslim scholars in many cases preferred Bukhary to the Quran. So much so that Hanafi scholars claimed publicly that hadith can abrogate Quranic verses. For example, according to them, 2:180 and 4:24 have been invalidated by hadith. In fact, all other sects also do not accept the judgement of these verses but they are not so frank.


a) What is your opinion on the hadiths I presented in the beginning? How many of them are correct?

b) How many centuries after the prophet's death was your most holy hadith book, Bukhary, written?

c) In how many correct hadiths do you believe?

d) If hadith is one of the most important sources of Islam, then why did not God preserve it like the Quran?

e) In which hadith do you believe besides words of God?

f) Why does not Bukhary narrate a single hadith through Abu Hanifah, but narrates from Marwan b. Hakam, a notorious murderer and drunkard who destroyed the original copy of the Quran?

g) Is the Quran perfect, clear, complete, and fully detailed?

h) Is the Quran easy or difficult to understand?

i) Why do you change the place of the word "alone" in 17:46: "... and when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion"?

Peace tbaba.

would appreciate if you could give me some clarification regarding d hadiths i referenced above. Also, d quranic verses too.

others are welcome to try too. Peace

usisky: Peace tbaba.

would appreciate if you could give me some clarification regarding d hadiths i referenced above. Also, d quranic verses too.

others are welcome to try too. Peace

refer to:

https://www.nairaland.com/960432/origin-hadith-reason-behind-muslims#11135045

^^

I have replied u @ d other thread.

also, the hadiths cited above are in ur so called sahih(authentic) hadiths. U may wish to point at which of them u would want me to follow. If d prophet is supposed to be a good example for us to follow, i find it hard to reconcile that with the hadiths about his character depicted in my op. Can a person who gouged peoples eyes be a good example to follow? Who narrated/Reported all these slanderous hadiths? the enemies of muhammad if i must tell u. They disguised their intentions only to fool gullible people. All d beautiful fable about the prophet in the hadiths can never lure me into accepting it(6:112-113).

^^
U may also answer my questions in d op. Thanks.

usisky: ^^

I have replied u @ d other thread.

also, the hadiths cited above are in ur so called sahih(authentic) hadiths. U may wish to point at which of them u would want me to follow. If d prophet is supposed to be a good example for us to follow, i find it hard to reconcile that with the hadiths about his character depicted in my op. Can a person who gouged peoples eyes be a good example to follow? Who narrated/Reported all these slanderous hadiths? the enemies of muhammad if i must tell u. They disguised their intentions only to fool gullible people. All d beautiful fable about the prophet in the hadiths can never lure me into accepting it(6:112-113).

reply in the other thread.

I wonder how all the above nonesense cited in my op ended up in the sanctified "sahih"(hadiths). Of course, those who derive their religion from it never see these crap in their cherished hadiths. They only see and pick out wat suits d ideology they wish to promote-which is just d fulfilment of an acurate prophesy in d quran(6:112). Bukhary who compiled these nonesense is given an honorable position in muslim history. This satanic individual is said to have gathered about 600,000 hadiths,where he sifted/ filtered through dem and finally collected about 6000.i.e 1% is what he found as credible. Part of 1% is wat i cited above.

Bukhary is said to have lived for 65 years. Lets use common sense here; is it possible for this individual to have traveld on many jorneys, collect 600,000 hadiths and verify them all? Can he possibly achieve this feat in his life time? Lets do a simple math here:

assume mr bukhary spent a mere hour everyday checking and verifying every hadiths he Had gathred. He would Require 600,000 hours to acheive this. But bukhary lived for just 65 years, which translates to(65x360x24)- 561,600 hours.i.e assuming he even started the moment he was born. As u can see, this is less than our 600,000 hours estimate.

I study the hadiths; but not to derive my source of religion from it. Instead,i use it to derive some historical account of the people of that era, as well as to point the contradictions out to those who bet their salvation on it. As we know, acceptance of history as true or not is solely at ones discretion. Cos history may be corrupted and presented as factual account.

Yes mr. Lagosshia!
pls no ad hominems and no insults. U'Ve called me a fool b4 and dats d more reason i feel reluctant having dicussions wit ya.

Now:

1)are d hadiths cited in d op sahih(authentic) or not?
2)contrast d phantasgomoric person potprtryed of d prophet by d hadiths and dat of a man of high moral character as depicted in d quran as cited in d op.
3)If u do agree with d "sahih" hadith in my op. Den can u pls give me a consensus compilation of d ones we should be following? If u do not have it,Den y is dat? At least for something dat explains d quran and guides u on how to follow d messenger-for which without it, d muslims are lost. der ought to be a consensus compilation somewher i would expect. Peace!

how do we offer the five daily prayers according to the quran?

Usisky,is it true that in 1971 Rashad Khalifa was taken to a place outside the universe where he was introduced to all the Prophets,He(RK)also saw resemblance between Abraham(AS)and RK's family members?

usisky: I wonder how all the above nonesense cited in my op ended up in the santified "sahih"(hadiths). Of course, those who derive their religion never see these crap in their cherished hadiths. They only see and pick out wat suits d ideology they wish to promote-which is just d fulfilment of an acurate prophesy in d quran(6:112). Bukhary who compiled these nonesense is given an honorable position in muslim history. This satanic individual is said to have gathered about 600,000 hadiths,where he sifted/ filtered through dem and finally collected about 6000.i.e 1% is what he found as credible. Part of 1% is wat i cited above.

Bukhary is said to have lived for 65 years. Lets use common sense here; is it possible for this individual to have traveld on many jorneys, collect 600,000 hadiths and verify them all? Can he possibly achieve this feat in his life time? Lets do a simple math here:

assume mr bukhary spent a mere hour everyday checking and verifying every hadiths he Had gathred. He would Require 600,000 hours to acheive this. But bukhary lived for just 65 years, which translates to(65x360x24)- 561,600 hours.i.e assuming he even started the moment he was born. As u can see, this is less than our 600,000 hours estimate.

Bukhari or any hadith compiler be he Sunni or Shia was not an infallible man.hadiths in hadiths books have different gradings and different scholars may grade them differently.

I study the hadiths; but not to derive my source of religion from it. Instead,i use it to derive some historical account of the people of that era, as well as to point the contradictions out to those who bet their salvation on it. As we know, acceptance of history as true or not is solely at ones discretion. Cos history may be corrupted and presented as factual account.

my friend in this case you're confusing yourself.the main source of guidance and authority for Muslims is the Quran.the hadith is secondary.regardless what use you ascribe to the hadith books,all Muslims agree that the hadiths must not contradict the Quran as a prerequisite for any hadith to be accepted.otherwise the hadith is to be rejected.this is exactly the instruction given by Imam Ja'far as-Sadeq (as).

also,you are being too general.there are hadiths that are mutawatir.mutawatir is a grade given to a hadith when the narration is common knowledge among esrly muslims.these are reports accepted by all muslims and you find such hadith reported in both Shia and Sunni sources or books of hadith.for instance the Hadith Ghadir Khumm,Hadith al-Manzila,Hadith ath-thqalain,e.t.c.

now you saying you do examine hadith for whatever purpose gives you NO higher moral ground than any other Muslim who examines the hadith for whatever purpose too.

@Lagosshia

like i have emphasized all along. Ma reasons fr rejecting d hadith are based on d quranic injunctions not to uphold any other source besides it as a source of religious guidance. And believe me, nothing shall make me disobey d words of ma creator. But since u keep insisting on accepting some hadiths, i have asked if u have a compilation of hadiths which u believe are authentic. If u do, pls refer me to it. I will scrutinize and give ma verdict. Peace!

usisky: @Lagosshia

like i have emphasized all along. Ma reasons fr rejecting d hadith are based on d quranic injunctions not to uphold any other source besides it as a source of religious guidance. And believe me, nothing shall make me disobey d words of ma creator. But since u keep insisting on accepting some hadiths, i have asked if u have a compilation of hadiths which u believe are authentic. If u do, pls refer me to it. I will scrutinize and give ma verdict. Peace!

the Quran tells us not to follow false hadith which can be translated to mean "false speech".if any hadith or speech or narration,can be proven to be the true words of the Prophet (sa) then it is incumbent upon you to obey your Creator and accept that hadith because the Quran orders us to take whatever is from the Prophet (sa).

otherwise if we are to blindly and angrily cling onto our self-desires and reject all hadiths,then to "obey my Creator" as you put it,i am forced to also reject your hadith (conversation/speech/narration).when you make reference to your past threads,you're citing your own personal "hadith".you're therefore living in perpetual contradiction whenever you refer to any word other than those in the Quran.in that way it would become forbidden to study history or even physics because these subjects contain detailed narrations not found in the Quran.

Again a thread this thread shows that when one clings unto falsehood and misguidiance, only Allah removes him from such, if this are the 19 hadiths that made you stop following the prophet's words and rather u prefer quoting the books of the hindu etc then u are really clinging unto the ropes of misguidiance ! When appropriate I will post a rebuttal!

MY MESSAGE TO SINCERE MUSLIMS:

My only hope is that those among you who still have even an atoms weight of honesty/sincerity in them, will objectively examine all the evidences i have and will keep presenting. If you truly fear and honor your creator..GOD Almighty; now is the time for you to break free from religious enslavement. What you've been brought-up to believe as ISLAM is not it at all; rather, what you follow is HISLAM(historical ISLAM). The true ISLAM as taught by Muhammad is buried under piles upon piles of rubble. God has given us the means for distinguishing truth from falsehood(17:36); You are responsible for how you apply them in seeking out truth. May God grant the sincere ones who choose conviction over conjecture the strength to search for truth.



Continuation from My Original Post......

[size=15pt]2) Do These Verses Require Us To Follow a Mishmash of Narrations?[/size]


Distorting the meaning of the Quranic verses, taking them out of context, claiming that some verses abrogate others are some of the tactics used by the followers of Hadith and Sunna. Monarchistic theocratical kingdoms use the ulama to divert "Muslim" masses. The fabricated satanic teachings have transformed the religion of God into a mishmash liturgy and a ritual torture. Here, God willing, we'll expose their true colors by evaluating some verses most often abused by them.

A good example has been set for you by the messenger of God (33:21).

The falsifiers have presented medieval Arab culture and traditions as good examples of the messenger. However, if you look at the context, the good example has been described as the messenger's courage and his constant remembrance of God. They extended this good example to irrelevant individual or cultural behaviors. For instance, they sanctified the beard and turban, ignoring the fact that the Meccan idol worshipers, such as Abu Lahab and Walid b. Mugiyra also had long beards and wore turbans.

What is worse, the actions and words ascribed to prophet Muhammad have depicted him with a character that is far from exemplary. The Hadith books portrays the prophet as a phantasmagoric character with a multiple personality. That character is more fictitious than mythological gods and goddesses, such as Hermes, Pan, Poseidon and Aphrodite. He is a pendulous character, both bouncing up to deity, and down to the lowest degree. He is both wise and slowpoke. He is sometimes more merciful than God and sometimes a cruel torturer. He is both perfect and criminal, humble and arrogant, chaste and sex maniac, trustworthy and cheater, illiterate and educator, rich and poor, a nepotist and a democratic leader, caring and a male chauvinist, a believer and a disbeliever, prohibiting Hadith and promoting Hadith. You can find numerous conflicting personalities presented as an exemplary figure. Choose whichever you like. This peculiar aspect of Hadith collection is well described by the prophetic verses of the Quran: "Shall we treat the Muslims (Submitters) like the criminals? What is wrong with your judgement? Do you have a book where you can find anything you wish?" (68:35-38).

Furthermore, a similar statement is made about Abraham: "A good example has been set for you by Abraham and those with him" (60:4, 6). If verse 33:21 requires Muhammad's hadith, then why would not the verses 60:4,6 require Abraham's hadith? Which books narrate hadiths from Abraham? Obviously, the only reliable source for both examples is the Book of God, which narrates the relevant exemplary actions. It also warns us not to repeat the mistakes committed by Muhammad (33:37; 80: 1-10).

Obey God and His Messenger (4:59)

Obeying Bukhari, a narrator of lies, is not obeying the messenger. Obeying the messenger is obeying the complete, perfect and fully detailed Quran. Verse 25:73 describes the attitude of believers towards God's revelations. But the followers of Hadith and Sunna are very good in ignoring them. They do not see 6:19, 7:3, and 50:45 which say that the only teaching delivered by God's messenger was the Quran. They do not think that Muhammad practiced the Quran, and the Quran alone (5:48, 49). They do not hear Muhammad's only complaint about his people (25:30). They do not understand that Muhammad disowns those who do not understand that the Quran is enough and fully detailed (6:114).

The first verse of Chapter 9 states that an ultimatum is issued from God an His messenger. We know that the verses about the ultimatum are entirely from God. God did not consult Muhammad about the ultimatum. Muhammad's only mission was to deliver God's message (16:35; 24:54). Thus, the reason that God included the messenger in 9:1 is because he participated as deliverer of the ultimatum. Similarly, because people receive God's message through messengers we are ordered to obey the messengers. We also know that the Quran is a permanent messenger (65:11), and the Quran is a reminder and deliverer of good news (41:4; 11:2).

Nor is he speaking out of personal desire. It is a divine inspiration (53:3-4).

Meccan idol worshipers claimed that Muhammad was the author of the Quran (25:5; 68:15). The beginning of Chapter 53 is about the revelation of the Quran. It states that "the Quran is from Him". It is not Muhammad's personal claim; it is a divine statement. Therefore, claiming that the pronoun "it" in the verse 53:4 refers to the words of Muhammad, not of God, is an obvious distortion. According to the above verse "it" is revelation, without exception. This can be valid only for the Quran. It is nonsense to claim that Muhammad's daily conversation was entirely revelation. For example, God firmly criticizes Muhammad's words to Zayd (33:37). Obviously, the criticism was not about revelation. The beginning phrase of Chapter 97 informs us about the revelation of the Quran: "We revealed it in the Night of Destiny". The "it" in this verse is the same as the "it" in 53:4. . . . And we sent down to you this message, to proclaim (litubayyena) for the people everything that is sent down to them, perhaps they will reflect (16:44).

People who establish Hadith and Sunna as another source of religious teachings besides the Quran, opted the irrelevant meaning of the Arabic word "BYN". The word "'lituBaYyeNa" is a derivative of "BYN", which is a multiple-meaning word. It means: 1) To reveal what is concealed. 2) To explain what is vague. The first meaning is the antonym of "hide", the second is the antonym of "make vague". God orders Muhammad to proclaim the revelation which is revealed to him personally. Indeed, this is the whole mission of the messengers (16:35). Prophets sometimes experience difficulty in proclaiming the revelation (33:37, 20:25). If the Quran is a profound Arabic book, if it is explained by God, and if it is simple to understand (5:15; 26:195; 11:1; 54:17; 55:1-2), then the prophet does not have an extra mission to explain it. Furthermore, the verse 75:19 does not leave any room for an extra human explanation. Thus, the word "litubayyena" of 16:44 is similar to the one in 3:187. Verse 3:187 tells us that the people who received the revelation should "proclaim the scripture to the people, and never conceal it."

The Quran is simple to understand (54:17,22,32,40). Whoever opens his/her mind and heart as a monotheist and takes the time to study it, will understand it. This understanding will be enough for salvation. Beyond this, to understand the multi-meaning verses you do not need to be a messenger of God. If you have a good mind and have studied the Quran as a believer, that is, if you have a deep knowledge, then you will be able to understand the true meanings of multiple-meaning verses. The verse 3:7, which is about the multiple-meaning verses, points this fact in a multiple-meaning way (this is an interesting subject which warrants another article): ". . . No one knows their true meaning except God and those who possess knowledge. . ."

O you who believe, do not place your (opinion) above God and His messenger (49:1).

Followers of hadith and sunna claim that God is represented by the Quran, and the messenger is represented by his opinion on the Quran. Thus, they claim that the Quran is not enough for salvation. Some people may not utter this claim straightforwardly. They may even claim that the Quran is complete and enough for our guidance. However, further questioning will reveal that their quran is not "the Quran". The Quran is the one that consists of 114 Chapters and 6346 verses. It is a mathematically coded book. However, their minds are confused, and their quran is contaminated with human speculations and limited by a snap-shot interpretation. They try to scare the believers by saying "you do not like the messenger". The belief that God is represented by the Quran, and the messenger by his teaching is a satanic claim. There are several points to remember:

>> Quran represents God and His messenger.

>> Obeying the Quran is obeying God and the messenger.

>> Quran never says: "Obey God and Moses," or "Obey God and Muhammad." But, Quran consistently states: "Obey God and the messenger." This is because the word messenger (rasul) comes from the "message" (risala). The message is entirely from God; messengers cannot exist without the message.

>> Messengers as humans make mistakes. Thus, when believers made a covenant with prophet Muhammad they promised to obey him conditionally, i.e., his righteous orders (60:12). Moreover, God specifically orders Muhammad to consult the believers around him (3:159). If nobody can object to the personal decision of the messenger, then consultation is meaningless. However, whenever the final decision is made, it should be followed.

>> During their lifetimes, messengers are community leaders. In this regard messengers are not different than the believers who are in charge (4:59); both should be obeyed. But, this obedience is not absolute. It is open for consultation and discussion.

>> The position of messengers are different during their lives; they are interactive teachers and curious students as well. We have the chance to ask them further questions, discuss issues, learn their intention, and even correct their mistakes. On the other hand, they have the opportunity to correct our misunderstandings. However, when they pass away their teaching becomes frozen and looses its advancing three-dimensional character. The frozen, snap-shot fragments of knowledge is a dangerous weapon in the hand of ignorant people to stop God's teachings. They defend every plain error in the name of the messenger. They insult every sincere students of God's revelation.

"Say, 'I do not ask you for any wage. But, what I ask from each of you is to take care of the relatives'" (42:23).

This verse is mostly abused by Shiite Muslims. They claim that prophet Muhammad was ordered to ask help for HIS relatives. This distortion created a class of blood sucking people surviving on charity. Hundreds of thousands of people in Iran, Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries claim that they are descendents of prophet Muhammad (Sayyeed or Shareef) and they are entitled to obligatory financial help. They abuse the verse mentioned above to exploit people economically. However, the verse does not say "my relatives". The context of the verse is plain enough to state that Muhammad does not need a wage from the believers and if they can help somebody they should help their own relatives. Indeed, helping the relatives is a divine command repeated in 2:83; 4:36; 8:41; 16:90.

The special status given to the descendents of Muhammad through Fatima and Ali has created a privileged and "sacred" religious class.


[size=14pt]An analogy[/size]

The Quran broadcasts a very clear message. However, the problem is with our receivers. If our receiver does not hear the broadcast or cannot understand it well, then something is wrong with our receiver and we have to check it. If the signal is weak, we need to recharge our batteries, or reset our antennas. If we do not receive a clear message, we need to tune into the station, to the station of Quran alone, in order to get rid of the noises and interference from other sources. We may ask some help from knowledgeable people or experts for this task. If the receiver does not work at all, then we have to make a sincere effort to fix the broken parts. However, if we believe that the problem is in the broadcast, then nobody can help us. The divine broadcast can be heard in detail only by those who sincerely tune in, i.e., those who take it seriously and act accordingly.

The condition of our receiver and the antenna, the power of the battery, and the precision level of our tuning are very important in getting the divine message properly.

a) If the verse 33:21 requires Muhammad's hadith, then why would not the verses 60:4,6 require Abraham's hadith? Which books narrate hadiths from Abraham?

b) You try to justify your collections of hadiths by using 33:21. Ironically, your collections do not provide an exemplary character. How can you claim that an eye-gouger, a urine-prescriber, a sex maniac is a "good example"?

c) The Quran states "Obey God and the messenger." How can you twist this commandment and make Bukhary, or Al-Kafy and many other story books as the second source of Islam? According to verse 4:59 we have to obey the people in charge too. Thus, does it mean that Islam is a co-authored religion by at least three sources?

d) The first verse of Chapter 9 states that an ultimatum is issued from God an His messenger. We know that the verses about the ultimatum are entirely from God. Muhammad was not the co-author of the ultimatum. Muhammad's only mission was to deliver God's message (16:35; 24:54). Thus, the reason that God includes the messenger in 9:1 is messenger's participation as a deliverer of the ultimatum. Why don't you apply this explanation to other verses where the word "messenger" is mentioned after God?

e) Why do you distort the meaning of 53:3,4 by taking it out of context?

f) By claiming that it is the mission of the messenger to explain the Quran, you contradict 16:35; 55:2; 75:19 and many other verses. In order to support your claim you opt a different meaning of "litubayyena" in 16:44. In fact, the word "litubayyena" of 16:44 is no different than the one in 3:187. This verse tells us that the people who received the revelation should "proclaim the scripture to people, and never conceal it." How can you claim that the meaning of "litubayyena" in 16:44 is "to explain", but not "to proclaim"?

g) You have created a privileged class out of descendents of the prophet Muhammad by misinterpreting 42:23. What are the Arabic equivalence of "the relatives" and "my relatives"? Which one is mentioned in that verse?



To be continued......

This matter has been dealt with in the past
May Allah reward this sister for her deiligence

stranger26: Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

Thank u.

Bismillahi Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem.

Perhaps, my brother, you believe this because you have not read the following Qur'anic verses. I find them clear in their instructions to us to obey whatever the Messenger (Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) tells us.

Allah COMMANDS us in the Qur'an to "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, " (surah Nur: 54)

"And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy" (Surah Aal-Imran: 132)

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, " (Surah An-Nisa: 59)

"And when it is said to them: "Come to what Allah has sent down and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turn away from you with aversion" (Surah An-Nisa: 61)

"We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave, " (Surah An-Nisa: 64)

"But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam) judge in all disputes between then, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission" (Surah An-Nisa: 65)

"And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, such are the successful" (Surah Nur: 52)

"The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say:"We hear and we obey". And such are the successful" (Surah Nur: 51)

"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and render not vain your deeds" (Surah Muhammad: 33)

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, " (Surah At-Taghabun: 12)

And how do we fulfil this obligation if not by observing what he said and did so that we may obey and follow these instructions? And are not the ahadith the collection of what the Prophet (SAW) said and did? Thus if it is compulsory for us to obey the Prophet (SAW), it is necessary for us to look at the ahadith so we may know WHAT it is we are supposed to be obeying, n'est-ce pas? "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah, " (An-Nisa: 80)

May Allah make it easy for all of us to truly accept what has been revealed to us and make it easy for us to obey Him and hold on to the sunnah of the Messenger who has come as an example and role-model to be followed. "Certainly, there is an excellent example for you in the Messenger of Allah, for him who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Surah Al-Ahzab: 21)

BetaThings: This matter has been dealt with in the past
May Allah reward this sister for her deiligence


And how do we fulfil this obligation if not by observing what he said and did so that we may obey and follow these instructions? And are not the ahadith the collection of what the Prophet (SAW) said and did? Thus if it is compulsory for us to obey the Prophet (SAW), it is necessary for us to look at the ahadith so we may know WHAT it is we are supposed to be obeying, n'est-ce pas?

[size=13pt]RESPONSE:[/size]

[5:44] We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in GOD's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.


[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.


[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture(Qur'an), truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations(Qur'an), and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.


[5:49] You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations(Qur'an) to you. Do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you from some of GOD's revelations to you. If they turn away, then know that GOD wills to punish them for some of their sins. Indeed, many people are wicked.


I pray God sharpens your intellect so you may comprehend the clear message emanating from the Glorious Book...AL-QUR'AN. Pay special attention to this part of verse 48...."But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you". PEACE!!

usisky:

I pray God sharpens your intellect so you may comprehend the clear message emanating from the Glorious Book...AL-QUR'AN. Pay special attention to this part of verse 48...."But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you". PEACE!!

I pray for you too

So what was the purpose of the Prophet (PBUH) spending 23 years with the people
Just to recite the Qur'an to them?
And while alive, did he practise Islam as revealed to him
If he did, he was either a good example of how to practise it or he was not
I take the view given that he practised Islam as intended and we can learn from him
Why does the Quran simply not tell us to obey the book of Allah
Why not simply say obey Allah
Although the Quran mentioned obey the messenger, was there any doubt as to who the messenger was?

If I decide to follow your methodology, some problems arise
How I pray and observe all the pillars of Islam
How do I reconcile the verses of the Quran that seem to contradict themselves
How do we conduct ourselves in a period of war

Dear Usisky
....,i 'd like to discuss with you extensively or better still, get your e-mail address. U 've come in here with a message, that is alien and challenging to me. I want to get to the root of this. May Allah guide us all, only Him knows who is right or astray.

^^^Peace be upon u brother.
Brother, i know how u feel. All i ask is Dat u investigate all i have and will keep preaching here till d day i am no more. Get hold of a qur'an and dat which is termed "sahih" hadiths. Check every claim i have made thus far. If u are a sincere person, d almighty will render everything clearer to u...Insha allah. Here's my email: usisky1@yahoo.com.

peace!!

usisky: ^^^Peace be upon u brother.
Brother, i know how u feel. All i ask is Dat u investigate all i have and will keep preaching here till d day i am no more. Get hold of a qur'an and dat which is termed "sahih" hadiths. Check every claim i have made thus far. If u are a sincere person, d almighty will render everything clearer to u...Insha allah. Here's my email: usisky1@yahoo.com.

peace!!

Thanks bro, am coming. Peace.

bilms:
how do we offer the five daily prayers according to the quran?

Prophet Muhammed went on a journey to collect the d five daily prayer. U no that why still askin