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Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven - Religion - Nairaland

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Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 3:31pm On Jul 05, 2012
It baffles me to say the least,how christians would beat their chest and say they are destined for heaven.hmmmmmm,reason being they have the keys to the lock(jesus being the ONLY way)john 14:6...jesus answered,i am the way the truth and the light.no ONE come to the father except through ME.....this really beats my imagination.i wont be surprised if atheist,budhist make heaven,even if it means going through the window.....Adam,noah,moses,david,solomon,all believed and worshiped only God not jesus as clearly stated in the bible,they never believed in jesus as the way to heaven....since the bible claims that jesus is the only way...does it mean these prophets took the wrong route and are gnashing their teeth in hell?which route did the previous prophets take?
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 4:06pm On Jul 05, 2012
1-nobody said to worship Jesus. Jesus was a conduit for spiritual resurrection of the elect people of israel so as to give them power over spiritual death without which they are vulnerable to satan.
2-Jesus also came to unite both the jews and gentiles under the law.
3-Jesus came to atone for all israels sins ( however only the elect of israel will be resurrected from spiritual death prior to the second coming. the rest of israel will be kept in that zombie state till the second coming )

SO ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT WHILE SALVATION FOR THE JEWS AND GENTILES WAS ACHIEVED THROUGH CHRIST, IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO WORSHIP CHRIST. YOU WORSHIP GOD. THE MEN BEFORE CHRIST WERE ALL PLUNGED INTO HELL ( WHICH IS NOT A PHYSICAL PLACE BUT A SET OF CONDITIONS ON EARTH ) BUT SOME WERE SPIRITUALLY RESURRECTED WHEN CHRIST DIED WHILE THE REST REMAIN IN SLUMBER TILL THE SECOND COMING.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 4:52pm On Jul 05, 2012
buzugee: 1-nobody said to worship Jesus. Jesus was a conduit for spiritual resurrection of the elect people of israel so as to give them power over spiritual death without which they are vulnerable to satan.
2-Jesus also came to unite both the jews and gentiles under the law.
3-Jesus came to atone for all israels sins ( however only the elect of israel will be resurrected from spiritual death prior to the second coming. the rest of israel will be kept in that zombie state till the second coming )

SO ALL I AM SAYING IS THAT WHILE SALVATION FOR THE JEWS AND GENTILES WAS ACHIEVED THROUGH CHRIST, IT DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO WORSHIP CHRIST. YOU WORSHIP GOD. THE MEN BEFORE CHRIST WERE ALL PLUNGED INTO HELL ( WHICH IS NOT A PHYSICAL PLACE BUT A SET OF CONDITIONS ON EARTH ) BUT SOME WERE SPIRITUALLY RESURRECTED WHEN CHRIST DIED WHILE THE REST REMAIN IN SLUMBER TILL THE SECOND COMING.
and how will they be saved in his second coming,since they are all plunged into zombie like state....(what proof do you have that the men before are even plunged into hellshow proof from the bible please)
Like you said it is not imperative to worship christ but God like the muslims are?so muslims are gonna reside in upville while christians reside downville.....hahahahahahahahahahaha
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 6:49pm On Jul 05, 2012
justaqad:
and how will they be saved in his second coming,since they are all plunged into zombie like state....(what proof do you have that the men before are even plunged into hellshow proof from the bible please)
Like you said it is not imperative to worship christ but God like the muslims are?so muslims are gonna reside in upville while christians reside downville.....hahahahahahahahahahaha
proof of zombie like state

jude 6[b] And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,[/b]

romans 11 vs 25 I want you to know my brethren, this mystery, lest you would be wise in your own opinion, that blindness of heart has for a little time come to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles will come in.

2 peter 2 vs 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

isaiah 6 vs 9-10 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed

when christ returns which is when the quota of gentiles that he wants in the kingdom has been met, all israel will awake from their slumber and suffering and be saved.

romans 11 vs 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by ijawkid(m): 7:00pm On Jul 05, 2012
@poster....buzugee said it good.....

All faithful patriarchs of old who didn't actually know Jesus still have d hope of living forever because they worshipped Yahweh and followed up his principles of worship back then......

Though these guys in all they did yearned for d moment when they'll see d promised messiah....they all knew Yahweh was gona provide a means through which they culd all be reconciled to him and then attain eternal life....

It was thru these faithful men of old that Jesus was transffered to the earth,so why won't they enjoy Gods blessings....

Right now as Gods high priest,its only thru Jesus that we can talk to Yahweh,present our sacrifices(not literal burnt offerings),and ask for forgiveness of sins.....
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 7:06pm On Jul 05, 2012
ijawkid: @poster....buzugee said it good.....

All faithful patriarchs of old who didn't actually know Jesus still have d hope of living forever because they worshipped Yahweh and followed up his principles of worship back then......

Though these guys in all they did yearned for d moment when they'll see d promised messiah....they all knew Yahweh was gona provide a means through which they culd all be reconciled to him and then attain eternal life....

It was thru these faithful men of old that Jesus was transffered to the earth,so why won't they enjoy Gods blessings....

Right now as Gods high priest,its only thru Jesus that we can talk to Yahweh,present our sacrifices(not literal burnt offerings),and ask for forgiveness of sins.....

This man nobody see your breaklight anymore now. trust all is well wink
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by ijawkid(m): 7:54pm On Jul 05, 2012
buzugee: This man nobody see your breaklight anymore now. trust all is well wink

I'm ok bro....

Been traveling recently .....

Been running around writing job tests while I'm serving the mumu nysc....

U know how 9ja things work......

But I can't leave my brethrens here on nairaland...


Wad up??

1 Like

Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 8:08pm On Jul 05, 2012
ijawkid:

I'm ok bro....

Been traveling recently .....

Been running around writing job tests while I'm serving the mumu nysc....

U know how 9ja things work......

But I can't leave my brethrens here on nairaland...


Wad up??
hehehe mumumu nysc. i love the nysc outfits though. hey we been trying to hold it down for you here putting in that good work of Yah. Glad to have you back Bruh.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by Delafruita(m): 10:23pm On Jul 05, 2012
my forefathers never knew either Yahweh or Jesus or Muhammed.in reality,i would never have heard of them if the oyinbo man hadnt decided he needed slaves for his sugar plantation.in essence my forefathers worshipped their idols for more than 1700 years after Jesus became "the way by which noone cometh to the father except through".what then is the fate of my forefathers?do they go to hell?if yes,then is it their fault the white man didnt need slaves as early as 2 AD?do they go to heaven?if yes,does that mean there's a double standard?
i would really appreciate if the Bible folks could respond to this.and please lets refrain from "God knows how he will do their judgement".afterall the Bible said "ye are gods" so you guys should be abble to give matter of fact responses
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by joe4christ(m): 11:12pm On Jul 05, 2012
Delafruita: my forefathers never knew either Yahweh or Jesus or Muhammed.in reality,i would never have heard of them if the oyinbo man hadnt decided he needed slaves for his sugar plantation.in essence my forefathers worshipped their idols for more than 1700 years after Jesus became "the way by which noone cometh to the father except through".what then is the fate of my forefathers?do they go to hell?if yes,then is it their fault the white man didnt need slaves as early as 2 AD?do they go to heaven?if yes,does that mean there's a double standard?
i would really appreciate if the Bible folks could respond to this.and please lets refrain from "God knows how he will do their judgement".afterall the Bible said "ye are gods" so you guys should be abble to give matter of fact responses

Create another thread for this. Cant reply here cause of the arguments and noice in here.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by Delafruita(m): 3:12am On Jul 06, 2012
my forefathers never knew either Yahweh or Jesus or Muhammed.in reality,i would never have heard of them if the oyinbo man hadnt decided he needed slaves for his sugar plantation.in essence my forefathers worshipped their idols for more than 1700 years after Jesus became "the way by which noone cometh to the father except through".

what then is the fate of my forefathers?do they go to hell?
if yes,then is it their fault the white man didnt need slaves as early as 2 AD?
are they going to be punished for the "inefficiency" with which the "gospel was spread to all the earth"?

do they go to heaven?if yes,does that mean there's a double standard?
does that mean that they get a free passage just because they never heard the gospel irrespective of their idol worship,adultery,polygamy,human sacrifice,murder,etc?

or will they be judged based on their good deeds and bad deeds?if yes,that also means there's a double standard.does that now mean a man like mohandas gandhi who by all standards was the epitome of goodness and ended up sacrificing his life for the freedom of his people,and heard the gospel but decided to stick to his own gospel of hinduism,will also go to heaven?or will he rot in hell while my forefathers enjoy the mansions of heaven regardless of how good or evil they were.

i would really appreciate if the Bible folks could respond to this.and please lets refrain from "God knows how he will do their judgement".afterall the Bible said "ye are gods" so you guys shouldbe abble to give matter of fact responses
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by InesQor(m): 3:20am On Jul 06, 2012
The ancient saints believed in Jesus Christ by faith. Not necessarily Jesus Christ the "person" (i.e. word manifested as flesh, although a couple of them met the pre-incarnate Jesus), but Jesus Christ as the Word proceeding from God.

So, we are all believers saved by the same token of Jesus Christ, both before and after Christ.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by Delafruita(m): 4:59am On Jul 06, 2012
InesQor: The ancient saints believed in Jesus Christ by faith. Not necessarily Jesus Christ the "person" (i.e. word manifested as flesh, although a couple of them met the pre-incarnate Jesus), but Jesus Christ as the Word proceeding from God.

So, we are all believers saved by the same token of Jesus Christ, both before and after Christ.
this analogy applies only to isrealites who were the "privileged ones".what of other people in asia,africa,americas,europe?i mean people who exxisted before christ and those who existed after but never heard the gospel
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by InesQor(m): 7:20am On Jul 06, 2012
Delafruita:
this analogy applies only to isrealites who were the "privileged ones".what of other people in asia,africa,americas,europe?i mean people who exxisted before christ and those who existed after but never heard the gospel

As I already said,

but Jesus Christ as the Word proceeding from God.

If you want to know my views about Salvation of non-Christians, read it here. Too much to go over here once again

https://www.nairaland.com/411099/inesqor-salvation-non-christian
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by joe4christ(m): 10:47am On Jul 06, 2012
Delafruita:
this analogy applies only to isrealites who were the "privileged ones".what of other people in asia,africa,americas,europe?i mean people who exxisted before christ and those who existed after but never heard the gospel

Jeremiah 25:9 [size=15pt] I will summon all the
peoples of the north and my servant
Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon,"
declares the LORD [/size] , "and I will bring them
against this land and its inhabitants and
against all the surrounding nations. I will
completely destroy them and make them
an object of horror and scorn, and an
everlasting ruin.

Now mind you, this king nebuchadnezzar of babylon was never an isrealite, he was from another country and race entirely different from the isrealites yet [size=15pt] God called him his servant[/size]
so how did he hears God's instruction like every other prophet and does God's bidding even though he was not an isrealite and God called him his servant?
Now here what the lord has to say:

Jeremiah 27:6
5 With
my great power and outstretched arm I made the earth
and its people and the animals that are on it, and I give it
to anyone I please. 6 Now I will hand all your countries
over to my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; I
will make even the wild animals subject to him. 7 All
nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until
the time for his land comes; then many nations and great
kings will subjugate him.
8 “‘“If, however, any nation or kingdom will not
serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon or bow its neck
under his yoke, I will punish that nation with the sword,
famine and plague, declares the LORD, until I destroy it by
his hand. 9 So do not listen to your prophets, your
diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums or
your sorcerers who tell you, ‘You will not serve the king of
Babylon.’
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 10:49am On Jul 06, 2012
InesQor:

As I already said,



If you want to know my views about Salvation of non-Christians, read it here. Too much to go over here once again

https://www.nairaland.com/411099/inesqor-salvation-non-christian

you are a cheap liar,it is evident from the bible that people of the old worshiped God alone,the bible clearly states numerous differences between jesus and God.....
The phrase (no one cometh to the father except through me is a hoax)because the same bible debunked the theory of original sin,and sonship of Jesus.....why would God cast moses he even spoke to in hell for believing in him,rather his alledge son??
mr there's no salvation in jesus....ur only salvation lies in worshiping God Alone without ascribing family,or relations to him.....
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 10:58am On Jul 06, 2012
Delafruita:
this analogy applies only to isrealites who were the "privileged ones".what of other people in asia,africa,americas,europe?i mean people who exxisted before christ and those who existed after but never heard the gospel

if only deceit would not cloud their judgement....now they are trying to prove how unbelievers in jesus would be saved,when the same bible authoritatively said......
NO ONE COMMETH TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME (jesus).
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 11:04am On Jul 06, 2012
buzugee:
proof of zombie like state

jude 6[b] And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,[/b]

romans 11 vs 25 I want you to know my brethren, this mystery, lest you would be wise in your own opinion, that blindness of heart has for a little time come to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles will come in.

2 peter 2 vs 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

isaiah 6 vs 9-10 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed

when christ returns which is when the quota of gentiles that he wants in the kingdom has been met, all israel will awake from their slumber and suffering and be saved.

romans 11 vs 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

delusion....the same bible showed who and how they worshiped God,their fate never hung on some cruel and heartless sacrifice.......
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by ijawkid(m): 11:10am On Jul 06, 2012
buzugee: hehehe mumumu nysc. i love the nysc outfits though. hey we been trying to hold it down for you here putting in that good work of Yah. Glad to have you back Bruh.

Ur so welcome bro...

So What have u been up to??
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 11:11am On Jul 06, 2012
justaqad:

delusion....the same bible showed who and how they worshiped God,their fate never hung on some cruel and heartless sacrifice.......
really ? i guess you missed the part about worshipping golden calfs and sacrificing their kids to molech and mutilating all the prophets. anyway this is the bottomline here. the spirit ( which is the words of God which is the words in the bible ) bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God ( romans 8 vs 16 ). this is a perfect sync. what this means is that if i give you scenarios backed by scriptural verses and you refute it as you have refuted by calling it a delusion. then that means your spirit does not bear witness with the spirit of God. that means you have been kept in blindness by the lord for whatever reason. in which case i cant help you. you gotta serve out your penance
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 11:13am On Jul 06, 2012
ijawkid:

Ur so welcome bro...

So What have u been up to??

not much Chief. trying to start this business and then trying to come to naija etc etc etc etc etc. but we still keep our eyes on the price regardless of earthly exploits.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 11:18am On Jul 06, 2012
buzugee: really ? i guess you missed the part about worshipping golden calfs and sacrificing their kids to molech and mutilating all the prophets. anyway this is the bottomline here. the spirit ( which is the words of God which is the words in the bible ) bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God ( romans 8 vs 16 ). this is a perfect sync. what this means is that if i give you scenarios backed by scriptural verses and you refute it as you have refuted by calling it a delusion. then that means your spirit does not bear witness with the spirit of God. that means you have been kept in blindness by the lord for whatever reason. in which case i cant help you. you gotta serve out your penance

nah u missed this part...
And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with
[their] faces to the ground. (Nehemiah 8:6)
"And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?" -(joshua 5:14) ......
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by buzugee(m): 11:24am On Jul 06, 2012
justaqad:

nah u missed this part...
And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with
[their] faces to the ground. (Nehemiah 8:6)
"And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?" -(joshua 5:14) ......
Ezra was part of the elect. Ezra was a favored man of God. so i dont get your point. Ezra was one of the few righteous who were not plunged into spiritual death. not all of the men of yore were plunged into spiritual death. amongst them were a few favored men like noah lot ezra abraham moses obadiah ezekiel jeremiah hosea zephaniah zechariah malachi joel amos isaiah etc etc
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 2:16pm On Jul 06, 2012
buzugee: Ezra was part of the elect. Ezra was a favored man of God. so i dont get your point. Ezra was one of the few righteous who were not plunged into spiritual death. not all of the men of yore were plunged into spiritual death. amongst them were a few favored men like noah lot ezra abraham moses obadiah ezekiel jeremiah hosea zephaniah zechariah malachi joel amos isaiah etc etc

u still dont get.....lemme put u on track.....you said he was among the few righteous not plunged into spiritual death abi?so to say he is admitted to heaven via Window,cos the bible authoritatively stated in plain and clear English,NO ONE....as seen below
>> John 14:6 New International Version (NIV) 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through ME......so here is the thing how did Ezra and others who never knew jesus pass through....cos it seems there are more than one way to get to heaven,(and i prefer Ezra's route hahahahahahahah)
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 2:22pm On Jul 06, 2012
buzugee: Ezra was part of the elect. Ezra was a favored man of God. so i dont get your point. Ezra was one of the few righteous who were not plunged into spiritual death. not all of the men of yore were plunged into spiritual death. amongst them were a few favored men like noah lot ezra abraham moses obadiah ezekiel jeremiah hosea zephaniah zechariah malachi joel amos isaiah etc etc

it would do u more good if you back up your claims scripturally...
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by Delafruita(m): 2:23pm On Jul 06, 2012
joe4christ:

Jeremiah 25:9 [size=15pt] I will summon all the
peoples of the north and my servant
Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon,"
declares the LORD [/size] , "and I will bring them
against this land and its inhabitants and
against all the surrounding nations. I will
completely destroy them and make them
an object of horror and scorn, and an
everlasting ruin.

Now mind you, this king nebuchadnezzar of babylon was never an isrealite, he was from another country and race entirely different from the isrealites yet [size=15pt] God called him his servant[/size]
so how did he hears God's instruction like every other prophet and does God's bidding even though he was not an isrealite and God called him his servant?
Now here what the lord has to say:

Jeremiah 27:6
5 With
my great power and outstretched arm I made the earth
and its people and the animals that are on it, and I give it
to anyone I please. 6 Now I will hand all your countries
over to my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; I
will make even the wild animals subject to him. 7 All
nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until
the time for his land comes; then many nations and great
kings will subjugate him.
8 “‘“If, however, any nation or kingdom will not
serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon or bow its neck
under his yoke, I will punish that nation with the sword,
famine and plague, declares the LORD, until I destroy it by
his hand. 9 So do not listen to your prophets, your
diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums or
your sorcerers who tell you, ‘You will not serve the king of
Babylon.’
just like i said earlier,this applies to isrealites.how about the peeps in africa,the aborigines in australia,the red indians in the americas,the cannibals on islands?were they also conquered by nebuchadnezzer?nubuchadnezzer,according to the Bible was a weapon in the hand of Yahweh against his chosen isreal.everything in the verses you quoted referred to the isrealites and not the entire world.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by InesQor(m): 10:49pm On Jul 06, 2012
justaqad:

you are a cheap liar,it is evident from the bible that people of the old worshiped God alone,the bible clearly states numerous differences between jesus and God.....
The phrase (no one cometh to the father except through me is a hoax)because the same bible debunked the theory of original sin,and sonship of Jesus.....why would God cast moses he even spoke to in hell for believing in him,rather his alledge son??
mr there's no salvation in jesus....ur only salvation lies in worshiping God Alone without ascribing family,or relations to him.....

LOL!

Let's agree to disagree. Cos I don't know where to start in replying the above.
Re: Window To Heaven...even Atheist Are Sure Of Heaven by justaqad(m): 4:22am On Jul 07, 2012
InesQor:

LOL!

Let's agree to disagree. Cos I don't know where to start in replying the above.

u can start from anywhere.....hehehehehehehehehe

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