Cheers01:


"Pagan" was also reserved for the polytheists. Guess what the Jewish called the early christians who believed in the trinity which was polytheist in nature. Pagans!

Polytheists are usually Pagans. take the Yoruba for example. but i use the term Pagan only for true Traditional Tribal/ethnic religiions. christianity is a new world religion and is in basic terms monotheistic nd abrahamic and made-up by humans.

PAGAN 9JA:


Polytheists are usually Pagans. take the Yoruba for example. but i use the term Pagan only for true Traditional Tribal/ethnic religiions. christianity is a new world religion and is in basic terms monotheistic nd abrahamic and made-up by humans.

No problem.

Jenwitemi, I like you, you no dey hide mouth talk, you just dey slam am for ground as it is.

Jenwitemi: The point of Christianity is to keep people blind, in darkness and in bondage so that they can't know their left from their right. The more victims it can garner, the more people will be walking on this planet totally blind and in bondage. That is the point and the purpose of christianity and it's likes.

To control the masses. Christians are taught that political leaders are God choosen,and should be prayed for and obeyed,irrespective of how oppressive the leaders are,they wouldn't be there,if God didn't will it.
christianity serves the purpose of the rulling class. It makes the people stupid and blind.

pazienza: To control the masses. Christians are taught that political leaders are God choosen,and should be prayed for and obeyed,irrespective of how oppressive the leaders are,they wouldn't be there,if God didn't will it.
christianity serves the purpose of the rulling class. It makes the people stupid and blind.

Can not agree more

ijawkid:

please can u mention d christian groups??

Mind u there were apostates not christian groups that deviated from the teachings of d apostles ........

Any1 who culdnt adhere to the leadership of d apostles had to find his or her way out...

You are from people who think that Christians were united? Big mistake. They killed each other! ...
Those were the apostates, and who the "true followers"?
Come on!
We talked seriously?

ijawkid:

Oboy 1st century Çhristians never engÀged in politic§ like there master Jesus.....

Do u just like arguing or d hatred for christianity has overwhelmed u........

The apostles and 1st century christians never engaged in d worlds politics.....

U knw how professed christians engaging in wars and politics today had there start....

U were a catholic for 22 yrs u shuld knw better.....

Christianity, right from the 1st century has always been about politics, and then later combined with economics. The reference and pretence to spiritual salvation has always been for the lay mugus. It has always been about control,domination and exploitation. It has always been so and remains so till this day.
Paganism is a much purer form of religion than christianity, simply because peganism makes no pretences about what it stands for: namely the reverence and worship of the Earth, the Moon and the Sun, which, if god exists, would be god's most visible proxies on this plane of existence.

@plaetton:
When you say paganism, does that include Hinduism? Would the twins killed during the times of our forefathers agree with your assertion that 'pagan' religion was pure?

Any religion, that gives any man or group of people exclusive rights, placing them on a divine pedestal, could and will be used as a tool of manipulation and control.

Men will always be men..

plaetton:

Christianity, right from the 1st century has always been about politics, and then later combined with economics. The reference and pretence to spiritual salvation has always been for the lay mugus. It has always been about control,domination and exploitation. It has always been so and remains so till this day.
Paganism is a much purer form of religion than christianity, simply because peganism makes no pretences about what it stands for: namely the reverence and worship of the Earth, the Moon and the Sun, which, if god exists, would be god's most visible proxies on this plane of existence.

Please just mention d politics the apostles and 1st century christians engaged in??

Please just give me 1 example.....

Were they ever part of d ruling class??

U guys just like maligning good works of d early christians....these were men who did nothing else bt preach d goodnews....

Where ona see them do politics??

PAGAN 9JA:


ofcourse not. it was only after the rise of christianity did the christians start calling all traditionalists in europe as Pagan. the word Pagan didnt even exist in those early stages of christian persecution, so you dont need to make up stories.

and where is your evidence for this claim?

double post..

Pagan Comes from the Latin Paganus. It means someone from the countryside, what in nigeria we would call a Bushman.

Christianity spread mainly in the cities and when it got made the state religion of the Roman empire it was mainly the sophisticated city dwellers that converted easily. Or had the hardest time practicing the old religion as they were under constant scrutiny. Out in the country side in the rural areas the new state religion couldn't be so easily imposed so countryside people would hold on to their old religion a lot easier. The old religions then became know as Paganism, cos it was from the countryside.

It is extremely difficult to separate christianity after the death of Jesus from the structure of the Roman empire. The Empire and christian have a very close symbiotic relationship as they evolved together. Historically speaking we cannot separate the two.

except of course Ethiopian christianity, cos Ethiopia was not a part of the Roman empire. Christianity there is notably different from the Roman christianity. Christianity also spread to other parts outside the Roman empire, but they were either assimilated into the cultures where they spread (as Roman christianity was assimilated into the roman empire) or however you want to look at it those christian movements would not be recognised by any of us today as christians due to their difference from Roman christianity.

the point of christianity is the pastors d*ick which he uses to f*uck other peoples wives.but the moment she gets pregnant he shouts................. IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!!!

musKeeto: @plaetton:
When you say paganism, does that include Hinduism? Would the twins killed during the times of our forefathers agree with your assertion that 'pagan' religion was pure?

Any religion, that gives any man or group of people exclusive rights, placing them on a divine pedestal, could and will be used as a tool of manipulation and control.

Men will always be men..

Twins were being killed not because of any religious beliefs. They were simply ignorant of reproductive biology. They, like many primitive cultures, were afraid of wat they did not understand. They did not kill twins for religious reasons, rather, for superstitious fear.
These are two different things.

ijawkid:

Please just mention d politics the apostles and 1st century christians engaged in??

Please just give me 1 example.....

Were they ever part of d ruling class??

U guys just like maligning good works of d early christians....these were men who did nothing else bt preach d goodnews....

Where ona see them do politics??

Your so-called appostles were fighting for the supremacy of their individual interpretations of the message of Jesus.
Dont deny the shism that existed between Paul and the Nazerenes (the true followers of Jesus.)
Do not deny that fact that Paul's version of christianity was mainly targeted at the Roman and Hellenic audience in order to make Christainity more palatable to them.
Do not deny that the divinity of Jesus was debated upon,voted upon and pronounced so by imperial fiat at the council of Nicea.
Do not deny that many ersthwhile pagan traditions, rituals, symbols and dieties were easily adopted by the newly formed christian faith in order to make it more appealing.
Do not forget that Consatntine's adoption of christianity as the state religion was purely political and had nothing to do with any spiritual mumbo jumbo.

Do not deny that the Nicean council was convened as means of unifying the empire of Rome under one state religion that would be easy to control.
Do you also deny that most of the religious wars of Europe were simple political mechinations by popes and kings tussling for supremacy?.

Reading from the bible,the trial and crucifiction of Jesus was purely political both for The Romans and for the Senhedrin. Do you dispute that?

And who are these good early christians that you wish to defend?

plaetton:

Twins were being killed not because of any religious beliefs. They were simply ignorant of reproductive biology. They, like many primitive cultures, were afraid of wat they did not understand. They did not kill twins for religious reasons, rather, for superstitious fear.
These are two different things.

Thanks. What do you think of Hinduism and its caste system?

musKeeto:
Thanks. What do you think of Hinduism and its caste system?

Again, this is a case of superstition gone amok.
This superstition stems from racism.
The Brahmins, who were mainly of Aryan origins, ruled India at a particular point in their history, and as such, considered themselves to be have been made in the true image of the creator. They claimed that non-Aryans were created from the underbelly of god, and therefore, just like the so-called god's chosen Jehovahist, the claimed to be the true hiers of god.

They perpetuated this class division in order to monopolise the political and economic power for themselves.

The truth is I wanna live right-religion won't interfere in that, not as an atheist for they have no hope, as a christian for IF all the Bible says be true, I have Hope in glory, not as 'the other' who enjoy killing innocent people to please 'their god', and also not as cultural religions for their mode of operation looks fetish to my personal understanding.

As a christian I'm free to think and do what is right plus I've got HOPE!

Atheists I challenge you this day-what have you got? And what's the essence of living if you have no HOPE?

plaetton:

Again, this is a case of superstition gone amok.
This superstition stems from racism.
The Brahmins, who were mainly of Aryan origins, ruled India at a particular point in their history, and as such, considered themselves to be have been made in the true image of the creator. They claimed that non-Aryans were created from the underbelly of god, and therefore, just like the so-called god's chosen Jehovahist, the claimed to be the true hiers of god.

They perpetuated this class division in order to monopolise the political and economic power for themselves.

Isn't that a definition for all religions?

Let me quote you

Paganism is a much purer form of religion than christianity, simply because peganism makes no pretences about what it stands for

I do no think any religion is purer than the other. Purity, in any sense, would be objective. While I understand your point

namely the reverence and worship of the Earth, the Moon and the Sun, which, if god exists, would be god's most visible proxies on this plane of existence.

,one would be inclined to counter this by saying what's the point of worshiping these objects if one doesn't practice love the way Jesus showed it in the NT?

double post..

iv4fb: The truth is I wanna live right-religion won't interfere in that, not as an atheist for they have no hope, as a christian for IF all the Bible says be true, I have Hope in glory, not as 'the other' who enjoy killing innocent people to please 'their god', and also not as cultural religions for their mode of operation looks fetish to my personal understanding.

As a christian I'm free to think and do what is right plus I've got HOPE!

Atheists I challenge you this day-what have you got? And what's the essence of living if you have no HOPE?

Ignorance
https://www.nairaland.com/969450/atheists-hope-what-purpose-life

plaetton:

Twins were being killed not because of any religious beliefs. They were simply ignorant of reproductive biology. They, like many primitive cultures, were afraid of wat they did not understand. They did not kill twins for religious reasons, rather, for superstitious fear.
These are two different things.

But religion was their lens to the world and its workings, therefore twin killings could be owed to religious reasons like Spirituality and co.

musKeeto: @plaetton:
When you say paganism, does that include Hinduism? Would the twins killed during the times of our forefathers agree with your assertion that 'pagan' religion was pure?

Any religion, that gives any man or group of people exclusive rights, placing them on a divine pedestal, could and will be used as a tool of manipulation and control.

Men will always be men..

let me answer this. Yes Hinduism is one of the largest Pagan religions survivng today and more advance than the others due to expansion of different Indian Empires.

who told you about "twin killing" it was mostly said by european missionaries to defame us. amybe some cultures might have done some crude form, but it was usually just after birth, when the child is not yet completely developed and able to think for itself in a proper way. Even Animals, especiall Lions, leopards, etc., eat one of their kids after birth.
however it is not very justifiable and i very much doubt it even existed.

the blame of this is usually put on the Yoruba people. but what comes into light is that the Yorubas revere twins to such a large extent that they used to pamper them too much in the past. you must have also heard of the Ibeji twins. there is obviously some symbolic reason to it. and also Yoruabs have one of the highest twin expectancy in the world so killing is out of the question.

2good:

and where is your evidence for this claim?

you want evidence use your sense man! the Traditionalists were the Ruling class before christianity. why would they call themselves as villagers?? in fact one of the reasons for the early persecution of christianity and them being fed to Lions was their threat to the Pagan Roman Chiefs and Generals and the Empire's stability, because the Jews were already creating much problem for them before that.
The area around israel was a very volatile and unstable region in the Empire (and still is), with frequent revolts. it is a cursed place.

musKeeto:
Thanks. What do you think of Hinduism and its caste system?

The Indian caste system is similar to the French Caste system and the West African Caste System (sepecially in Mali).
The original purpose of the Indian Caste System was to establish a sytem in those days of lawlessness and uncivilization (note: im not saying uncivilization was bad because people were still happy and content). Anyways when the invading Aryan Tribes started setting up governments and civilization, they had to create jobs. so this was based on the capability (not race). However it so happens that the Arayans were mostly well-versed in theology, classical language (Sanskrit), etc., so naturally they mostly got the Priestly jobs and roles of teachers, etc. The invading Warrior class among the Arayns took on the role of Warriors, since they were accustomed to it. Many of the Aryans, along with many of the Indigenous Indian Tribes took on the 3rd role/job of farmers, cattle drivers, etc. The final role of/job of keeping streets clean, washing clothes and all other lower jobs was given to the unskilled & uneductaed Indigenous tribes who were incorporated into the civilization. Some Tribes were skilled in music and the arts so they were given a role. all of these were and still are "paid jobs" unlike white slavery.

Now it is to be noted, that many indigenous tribes refused to be incorporated into civilization and the caste system and to lead independant live in the forests. These are oday called the Adivasis literally meaning "half-citizens" or forest Tribes.
there was never any ratial issue. Infact some white skinned Indo Scythian Warrior Tribes who invaded later on after the Aryans, were refused to be accepted into the caste of Kshatriya(Warrior) or any caste for that matter. These are for example, todays such as The Nair and Bunt Tribes, the Jats, the Kodavas, etc. .though later on they started calling themselves as of being warrior caste-men due to their jobs as warriors in feudatories.

now this is about the early Vedic Age when untouchability never existed. However conditions worsened during the later Vedic Age as civilization expanded and there was some power-sharing between the 2 upper-castes of pries and warrior. The Priests were given excessive rights by the Rulers and this resulted in power abuse. yet slaver never existed.

It reached its most ugly form in the Medieval Period (1500 Ad to now). by this time it would have been wise to abolish the outdated system, but unfortuantely there were rarely any stable govts in the country which lasted for short periods and also the constant islamic invasions which destabilized the region.

musKeeto:
While I understand your point
,one would be inclined to counter this by saying what's the point of worshiping these objects if one doesn't practice love the way Jesus showed it in the NT?

now that is a very vague statement. what do you know about these objects. it is not like just waing up in the morning and performing a rain dance. there is ritual, mode and context. if you give me the exact detail of whicch religion and what practice, i will explain.

jesus did not show any love. what is your point? none of us has seen him. what love are you talking about. if my girlfriend shows me love, would i worship her the bible is a load of bs. i have read it. it is only a book of religious proselytisation, brainwashing, superiority of man, and cultural wipeout. and if there is any morals in there, it has all been plagarised.

PAGAN 9JA:


let me answer this. Yes Hinduism is one of the largest Pagan religions survivng today and more advance than the others due to expansion of different Indian Empires.

who told you about "twin killing" it was mostly said by european missionaries to defame us. amybe some cultures might have done some crude form, but it was usually just after birth, when the child is not yet completely developed and able to think for itself in a proper way. Even Animals, especiall Lions, leopards, etc., eat one of their kids after birth.
however it is not very justifiable and i very much doubt it even existed.

the blame of this is usually put on the Yoruba people. but what comes into light is that the Yorubas revere twins to such a large extent that they used to pamper them too much in the past. you must have also heard of the Ibeji twins. there is obviously some symbolic reason to it. and also Yoruabs have one of the highest twin expectancy in the world so killing is out of the question.



you want evidence use your sense man! the Traditionalists were the Ruling class before christianity. why would they call themselves as villagers?? in fact one of the reasons for the early persecution of christianity and them being fed to Lions was their threat to the Pagan Roman Chiefs and Generals and the Empire's stability, because the Jews were already creating much problem for them before that.
The area around israel was a very volatile and unstable region in the Empire (and still is), with frequent revolts. it is a cursed place.



The Indian caste system is similar to the French Caste system and the West African Caste System (sepecially in Mali).
The original purpose of the Indian Caste System was to establish a sytem in those days of lawlessness and uncivilization (note: im not saying uncivilization was bad because people were still happy and content). Anyways when the invading Aryan Tribes started setting up governments and civilization, they had to create jobs. so this was based on the capability (not race). However it so happens that the Arayans were mostly well-versed in theology, classical language (Sanskrit), etc., so naturally they mostly got the Priestly jobs and roles of teachers, etc. The invading Warrior class among the Arayns took on the role of Warriors, since they were accustomed to it. Many of the Aryans, along with many of the Indigenous Indian Tribes took on the 3rd role/job of farmers, cattle drivers, etc. The final role of/job of keeping streets clean, washing clothes and all other lower jobs was given to the unskilled & uneductaed Indigenous tribes who were incorporated into the civilization. Some Tribes were skilled in music and the arts so they were given a role. all of these were and still are "paid jobs" unlike white slavery.

Now it is to be noted, that many indigenous tribes refused to be incorporated into civilization and the caste system and to lead independant live in the forests. These are oday called the Adivasis literally meaning "half-citizens" or forest Tribes.
there was never any ratial issue. Infact some white skinned Indo Scythian Warrior Tribes who invaded later on after the Aryans, were refused to be accepted into the caste of Kshatriya(Warrior) or any caste for that matter. These are for example, todays such as The Nair and Bunt Tribes, the Jats, the Kodavas, etc. .though later on they started calling themselves as of being warrior caste-men due to their jobs as warriors in feudatories.

now this is about the early Vedic Age when untouchability never existed. However conditions worsened during the later Vedic Age as civilization expanded and there was some power-sharing between the 2 upper-castes of pries and warrior. The Priests were given excessive rights by the Rulers and this resulted in power abuse. yet slaver never existed.

It reached its most ugly form in the Medieval Period (1500 Ad to now). by this time it would have been wise to abolish the outdated system, but unfortuantely there were rarely any stable govts in the country which lasted for short periods and also the constant islamic invasions which destabilized the region.





now that is a very vague statement. what do you know about these objects. it is not like just waing up in the morning and performing a rain dance. there is ritual, mode and context. if you give me the exact detail of whicch religion and what practice, i will explain.

jesus did not show any love. what is your point? none of us has seen him. what love are you talking about. if my girlfriend shows me love, would i worship her the bible is a load of bs. i have read it. it is only a book of religious proselytisation, brainwashing, superiority of man, and cultural wipeout. and if there is any morals in there, it has all been plagarised.

BAD argument. Infanticide is a horrible thing, we can't change that. On Hinduism, Buddhism rose up because of the inherent injustice in the caste system. The use of gods was a mechanism for inequality and privilege.