sino:

The narrations you have brought does not in any way limit qiyamu layl to just 3 nights, nor does it prohibit observing qiyamu layl in congregation in other nights! How you managed to get these conclusions is mind boggling, but I'm not surprised!
!

Perhaps this old sheik tagged "sheik al-Islam" was wrong:


Salafi Shaykh al-‘Uthaymin:

"Therefore, brothers: No act of ‘ibadah is accepted except with the fulfilment of two fundamental conditions: one of them is sincerity to Allah, and the other is imitation of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. We already mentioned the proofs for that. We also say: verily, the imitation (of the Prophet) cannot be achieved except if it complies with the Divine Law in six matters, and they are: the reason, the type, the amount, the method, the period, and the place."

I want to believe you will agree is right. So, no more story.

Empiree:

al-Tirmidhi (806) narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever prays qiyaam – i.e., Taraweeh – with the imam until he finishes, it will be recorded as if he spent the whole night in prayer.”



You may want to dispute taraweeh is not Qiyama layl. But that's not my point. My only here is this Hadith enjoins congregational nawafil salat.

Here again is the full hadith of the part you posted:


Ibn Khuzaymah also documents:

Narrated Jubayr b. Nufayr al-Hadrami, from Abu Dharr:

“We fasted along with the Prophet, peace be upon him, in Ramadan, and he did NOT lead us in qiyam al-layl until the 23rd night of the month. He led us in qiyam al-layl until one-third of the night passed. Then, he did not lead us in qiyam al-layl on the 24th night, and he led us in qiyam al-layl on the 25th night until midnight passed. So, I said, “O Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, if only we could carry on for the rest of this night of ours.” He said: “Whosoever does qiyam al-layl with the Imām until he finishes, the qiyam of a whole night will be written for him.” Then, [u]he did not lead us in prayer until [/u]the 27th night of the month. So, he led us in qiyam al-layl on the 27th night and he gathered his family and his wives. He led us in qiyam al-layl until we feared that we would miss al-falah.” I said: “What is al-falah.” He said: “The suhur.”[5]

Shaykh al-A’zami comments: Its chain is sahih.


# Today's tarawih is first not Qiyam al-layl as Sunni especially the salafi continuously try to smuggle it in. Alhamdulillah you agreed with that unless you change your mind. Tarawih is nothing but Umar ibn al-khattab's Bid'at.


# Now observe the hadith closely especially the underlined: Prophet limited the congregations of Qiyam al-layl prayers in Ramadan to just 3 days: 23rd, 25th and 27th. And that was done for the purpose of seeking laylat al-qadr and no more no less. Again, it was done in the middle of the night NEVER after Ishai for 29 or 30 days that Sunni engaged in today.

# Why is it difficult to adhere to what Prophet did and enjoined? Why following Bid'at? Why all the back and forth twist?

We know from the traditions that some nawafil are only valid in congregations: salat of the two al-Eids. And we equally know as you've point out that nawafil of tahiyat al-masjid is rather said in the mosque. The fact however remains that those were qayd (exceptions). Tarawih or Qiyam al-layl in congregations were not part of those exceptions except for that specific 3 days. Were other night to be said in congregations as well, the Prophet won't hesitate to do so.

Alhajiemeritus:

During the prophet's time all Quran verses were not compiled in a single place but during Umar's Kaliphate the Quran was compiled into one that we even have a verse of concern.
Will they call that bidiah too, since the holy prophet did not do it.
I just tire for all the bidiasts.
Yes that's their name Bidiasts.

# Anyway, that story of Quran not compiled during the lifetime of the Prophet is incorrect despite being popular. If Prophet could not compiled Quran for 23 years of his mission then, what sense does that make?

For a fact, Prophet had regular scribes who write Quran down under instructions and supervision of the Prophet. By the time the last verse was revealed, everything has been put in its rightful place and gathered together.

Here's a testimony:

Narrated Qatada:

Anas said, "The Qur'an was collected in the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him) by four (men), all of whom were from the Ansar: Ubai, Mu`adh bin Jabal, Abu Zaid and Zaid bin Thabit." I asked Anas, "Who is Abu Zaid?" He said, "One of my uncles."


Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3810
In-book reference : Book 63, Hadith 36
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 5, Book 58, Hadith 155
https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/63/36


# Now for the benefit of doubt, let us agree Quran was not gathered during the lifetime of the Prophet and it only took the efforts of the Caliphs to gather it. Does that gathering into book form constitute to Bid'ah? Absolutely NO.

This hadith gives the general rule:


Imam Abu'l Hasan Ali Daraqutni documents:

Abu Tha’laba reported:

4316 \ 42 - The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, Allah has made duties obligatory, so do not neglect them. He has set limits, so do not transgress them. He has made some things sacred, so do no violate them. He has remained silent upon matters as mercy for you, not out of forgetfulness, so do not search them out.”


Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Ibn Al-Qayyim

Source: Ali ibn Umar Ad-Daraqutni, Sunan al-Dāraquṭnī (Dar Muh'yid, 1422 A.H) Hadith #4316

ANYTHING NEW that is not specifically mentioned by Allah or practice by His Prophet, if it does not contradict the established principles of Islam, will be rate under the bold part in the hadith. Besides, Quran says:

Surah Al-Anaam, vs 160:

"Whoever brings a good deed, he shall have ten like it, and whoever brings an evil deed, he shall be recompensed only with the like of it, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly."


Imam Muslim also documents this Hadith:

The Prophet says:

He who introduced some good practice in Islam which was followed after him (by people) he would be assured of reward like one who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And he who introduced some evil practice in Islam which had been followed subsequently (by others), he would be required to bear the burden like that of one who followed this (evil practice) without their's being diminished in any respect.

Hadith # 6466
https://sunnah.com/muslim/47/26

Observe lest you are hoodwinked! Neither the ayah nor the hadith is talking about established Sunnah of the Prophet. Both talk about "new good deed and practice" and observe "bid'at" whether linguistically or meaning-stically was not used rather "good deed and good practice" is used.

never mind my vocabulary "meaning-stically".

aadoiza:
Take group dhikr for instance, with all the condemnation thereof by Allu sunnah I don't see the wrong in a group of people calling Allah's names and praising him. We tend to make unnecessary fuss over irrelevancies

# For a fact there is nothing wrong in dhikr in congregations. There are too many justification for it in the Quran and hadith.

Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 191

"Those who are doing Allah's dhikr standing and sitting and lying on their sides and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord! Thou hast not created this in vain! Glory be to Thee; save us then from the chastisement of the fire"

This verse is so flexible in its interpretation that it fit all situation: whether you interpret it:

1. Referring to individuals at the same or different time and different place; therefore, referring to them collectively or

2. Congregations of different or one group at the same or different time and place.

It fits all the two. So it is sheer ignorance to attack child in congregations. The manner and what is being recited is what should be keenly accessed.

And even if there exist not verse of the Quran and hadith for group adhkar, the hadith reported by Abu Tha'laba (as highlighted above) will always come handy to defend it handsomely.

Empiree:
if he didn't do that, there would have been no distinction between fard salat and nawafil. His aim was not about congregation itself but congregation of nawafil especially when it is done continuously for 29/30 days. They would assume it is fard if he didn't disband it.


Let's be clear on something. Sahaba would normally follow the prophet (saw) in almost anything since he is their leader. So they were right to come out and join him.

Unfortunately, you have looked at the hadith from one angle only. From the other angle, another hadith did not even bring that dalil that "I'm afraid it might turn obligatory for you". For a fact, I believe that part was fabricated by hadith forgers to justify Umar's BID'AT. Sahabah were not that stupid and daft not to discern fard from recommended salat. Even my 5 year old daughter knew that clearly.


# The dalil of the second hadith which is true and make more sense than the first was, "you people persist this salat be in jamaah, go home and pray it FOR SALAT (nawafil) PRAYED AT HOME INDIVIDUALLY EXCEPT FARD SALAT IS BETTER".

Are you saying "is better" is limited to that time or the "better" will continue to be till qiyamat?

Yet, Umar bold recognized this when he said, "What good Bid'at this is; BUT the one they sleep (then wake) and pray is better than this". Umar never argued based on the fact that people will misunderstood it for fard salat.

aadoiza:

Well you have overwhelming evidence to back your claim, but are you saying Umar would deliberately go against a well-established sunnah? I think not. He had good reasons to fix the chaotic situation resulting from the too many people observing nawafil separately that night by enjoining them to do so in congregation. Of course the Prophet's way is the best way, and the congregation type should be done with the intention bringing people together, even if not as rewarding..

In sha Allah, I will get different perspectives on this.

At bold, this was never the first time Umar ibn al-khattab will overrule established Sunnah of the Prophet.

Imam nasai documents:

 It was narrated that Ibn 'Abbas said:

"I heard 'Umar say" 'By Allah, I forbid you to perform Tamattur,' but it is mentioned in the Book of Allah and the Messenger of Allah did it" meaning 'Umrah with Hajj.

Grade : Sahih (Darrusalam)
Sunan an-Nasa'i 2736
In-book reference : Book 24, Hadith 0
English translation : Vol. 3, Book 24, Hadith 2737
https://sunnah.com/urn/1079050

Below is a thread for further reading if you wish. There, I have highlighted 1 over 100s of Umar's blatant opposition to the law of Allah and His Prophet because of his own opinion and desires and many sahabah used to oppose him for that. Unfortunately you see Umar beating and terrorising them sometimes for doing so.
https://www.nairaland.com/3038732/identifying-khulafau-rashidun-rightly-guided

aadoiza:

Sun ke, for twelve? Nba

It is sad indeed. To call a spade a spade, Albaqir is 100% right on this and he brought forth daleel from sunni sources to support his claim. However, someone like me don't believe every bidiah is bad. Take group dhikr for instance, with all the condemnation thereof by Allu sunnah I don't see the wrong in a group of people calling Allah's names and praising him. We tend to make unnecessary fuss over irrelevancies

Dear brother, all bid'at in religion are misguidance and will lead straight to hell as the Prophet clearly said. What people especially the salafi failed to understand is the definition of bid'at and conditions for something to be tag "Bid'at. Rather they tag everything "new" bid'at. What is not bid'at is not bid'at despite the fact that Prophet or sahabah never practice it or not mentioned specifically in the Quran.


Imam Abu'l Hasan Ali Daraqutni documents:

Abu Tha’laba reported:

4316 \ 42 - The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, Allah has made duties obligatory, so do not neglect them. He has set limits, so do not transgress them. He has made some things sacred, so do no violate them. He has remained silent upon matters as mercy for you, not out of forgetfulness, so do not search them out.”
  

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Ibn Al-Qayyim

Source: Ali ibn Umar Ad-Daraqutni, Sunan al-Dāraquṭnī (Dar Muh'yid, 1422 A.H) Hadith #4316


# The above hadith give room for new things not mentioned by Allah and His Prophet. This is the reason Prophet further says that "anyone who brings new practice to religion and people follow that good practice will be rewarded by Allah".


# Now, Describing innovation and innovators, Imam Ali ibn Abi Taalib in a sahih hadith says:

The innovators are those who contradict the command of Allah, His Book and His Messenger; they are those who follow their own opinion and desires, even if they are the majority"

Source: kanz al-Ummal, hadith no.44216

Hope you see the difference between good practice and Bid'at.

Now questions are:

Did Umar brought is own opinion?
Did he overrule Prophet's exclusive instructions?
Going by the hadith, answer to those questions are capital YES.

Empiree:
^^^

Your point two has lots of consequences.

Qur'an and Sunnah are there side by side and Allah also gave His Prophets and messangers HIKMA. It is that HIKMA that Umar applied when he saw masjid so chaotic. Everyone is praying individually and loud. We don't need PhD to figure it out that something must be done which is what Umar (ra) did. He did the right thing.


You chose wrong choice of word "forbidden" with regard to taraweeh in congregation. Again, if not because of congregational taraweeh how are muslims going to gather in Ramadan?.


In Ramadan you get to see hungry Muslims come out to eat at Masajid. If not for kima used by Umar, how are they gonna eat if they don't have food?. Myself go to different Masajid in Ramadan everyday to eat and bring free food home.

If we are to sleep and return for taraweeh, I bet you only very few would come to masjid. So HIKMA is applied. Islam is to be understood with time. At the time of nabi Muslim population was handful. Today we are billions.


So HIKMA was applied by Umar. It is unfair to say he go against the prophet in this instance. Just imagine they didn't compiled Quran?.

If I'm to apply your notion that bidiat is bidiat, then, we are gonna suffer as Muslims today bcus Quran would have still be written on different pieces. Therefore, Umar and uthman(ra) applied their HIKMA.



So congregational taraweeh is a good practice whether it was concocted after nabi or not. People used to gather for Dua and dhikr in the time of the prophet (saw). This means gathering in itself is not bidiah. And Taraweeh is not bidiah. So if Sunnis gather for Taraweeh, how it's that problem?. The only time I don't I don't attend taraweeh is when I'm kinda weak or late at work.

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 34:

And keep to mind what is recited in your houses of the verses of Allah and the HIKMAT; surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware."

Just like verse of the Quran, Hikmat was also revealed and recited to the Prophet. Sunni argued Hikmat here is synonymous with the Sunnah of the Prophet. If that is the case, Umar's so-called Hikmat shouldn't contradict or overrule that of the Prophet's.

For your information, Umar did not even use any Hikmat. He stated clearly from the hadith (please read again), "IN MY OWN OPINION..."

# Your submission is flawed because of its desperate approach to justify Umar's action. What you failed to realize was that during the lifetime of the Prophet, there were large number of destitute, the Ahlu Suffa, leaving inside and on the rooftop of Prophet's mosque. Prophet and other wealthy sahabah regularly provide food and shelter for them. Did they constituted nuisance in their private ibaadat then knowing how the place will always be crowdy and rowdy?

# Mosque has always been a place for spiritual, social and political affairs of the Muslims. Till date, even if you have something to distribute or need help and know nowhere to go, mosque is your best destination. Is or should this be limited because of tarawih? For Allah's sake tarawih is just 30 days max in 12 months. Destitute and other Muslims don't need one tarawih to gather them in a mosque for their hajat (need) to be fulfilled. 5 daily salat and especially salat Jumuat (salat of congregations weekly) are there.

Please bro, don't bring such excuse again o.

aadoiza:
I always knew tagging most things bidah would come back to haunt the salafi, and this is one the results.
The very fact that Umar RA called it bidah shouldn't provoke any form of ambiguity. Bidah is bidah period. And I'm not buying the "linguistic sense" drivel. it's one horribly concocted defence mechanism, a shabby use of semantics to paper over the cracks in the whole brouhaha.

Someof the questions we should be asking: is the practice wrong? No. Is it bidah? Yes. Is it a good bidah? Yes. Will I join my brothers in observing tarawih tonight? Yes.

If you (all sects) still think your sect is doing exactly what the Prophet SAW did, you dey deceive yourselves.

Alhajiemeritus:

This is my stand too, it is definitely good bidiah
example of Bid'ah Hasana is the development of the study of Hadith, Fiqh, Tafsir, which did not exist at the time of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (Al-Nawawi).

Sometimes we need to let go our ego and take the raw truth as it is.

# Point one: Bid'ah is Bid'ah: There is nothing like good Bid'ah and bad Bid'ah. Prophet clearly stated, "kullu Bid'ati dalala....Every bid'at is misguidance...." This is as far as Islamic laws are concerned.

# Point two: Practices could either be Sunnah, bid'at or good practice. The application of "bid'at" to every new practices not practically done by the Prophet is totally wrong. Hence, we need to set the record straight by redefining what Bid'at really is? Salafi is totally wrong with their definition of bid'at.

# Point three: As per Tarawih that Sunni prayed today, like it or not: IT IS 100% BID'AT.

1. It is not supposed to be hold in congregations: prophet forbid it and ordered individual prayer at home

2. The only exception given by the Prophet was 23rd, 25th and 27th for the purpose of seeking night of majesty. This is the only night prayer that Prophet held in congregations during the month of Ramadan according to Sunni traditions

3. Today's timing of tarawih is totally wrong from the time Umar ibn al-khattab formulated it. Prophet ONLY prayed night prayers in the month of Ramadan at the middle of the night not after Ishai. Interestingly Umar after calling his own version "bid'at" went further saying "BUT that which they first sleep and then wake up to pray is better than this".
Obviously, Sunnah will always better than Bid'at even if one hates it.

4. Tarawih after Ishai is usually between 10 - 20 rakaat. Prophet night prayer is just 11 rakaat with the inclusion of saf' and witr.

#Point 4: Yes, tarawih has become tradition among the Sunnis. The annoying thing is linking it to the Prophet as if he established it the way it is being prayed today.

And Empiree, please there is nothing like "Shia understanding or Shia point of views" here. All the submission at the OP are 100% Sunni traditions. Sunni ulama in order to save face might distort its interpretations and give it meaning suitable to their own practice but they will never erase those clear ahadith. And as you can see there is a video posted above: Sunni shuyukh debating on the issue: one is economical with the truth, the other is not. So again please leave Shia out of this please. This is simple research work.

At the end man always has choice: right or wrong.

guru1234:

Narrated Awra that he was informed by `Aisha, "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came out and the people prayed behind him.On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet (ﷺ) came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited Tashah-hud and (addressing the people) said, "Amma ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me but I was afraid lest the night prayer (Qiyam) should be enjoined on you and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually). "




The misquoted and purposely twisted hadith
Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari said "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a

Unfortunately this is not how issues are discussed. All what you have posted are just lazy works: they are repetitive comments.

This is how you go in dialogue or debate: You read your opponent's submissions first, then point by point you destroy it by presenting something better of a counter argument.

Please read OP's submissions and tackle them appropriately.

TRUTH ABOUT TARAWIH


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WCCilcJxvU

Rashduct4luv:


Oga Shia, your Cherry picking has been exposed. I don't think i have anything to say to you anymore as truth is distinct from error/ falsehood!

Lakum deenukum waliya deen!

Outa thread.

Where did you see cherry picking? Cherry picking ko, Jerry Kerry ni

We said you are practicing BID'AT of Umar ibn al-khattab, your shuyukh said it is "only" Bid'at in Lughat sense despite Umar's further explanation. Here you are, enemy of truth, saying "cherry picking".

Rashduct4luv:
Just like the OON, the Shiites has come again to deter people from the path of Sunnah!

Anyways! The attack will always come from them. A pig will never rest till it brings the other animal in to its own mess! Ahl-Sunnah wal Jama'a will always surpass you all.

The Prophet prayed Tarawih three times alone and people joined him. On the fourth night he refused to come out to tarawih because he was afraid the optional prayer will be made obligatory!

After the death of the Prophet, no act of worship can became obligatory hence Umar revived this Sunnah!

The honorable liar selectively choose hadiths and athar from Ahl-Sunnah Scholars that suite him to deceive unsuspecting Muslims!


Al-Bukhaari (2010) narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn ‘Abd al-Qaari’ that he said: I went out with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) one night in Ramadan to the mosque, where we saw the people in scattered groups, one man praying by himself, and another man praying with a group of people following his prayer. ‘Umar said: I think that if I unite these people behind one reciter, it will be better. Then he decided to do that, so he united them behind Ubayy ibn Ka‘b. Then I went out with him on another night, and the people were all praying behind their reciter. ‘Umar said: What a good innovation this is, but what they sleep and miss is better than what they are doing – referring to prayer at the end of the night, whereas the people were praying qiyaam at the beginning of the night.

With regard to ‘Umar’s words “what a good innovation (bid‘ah) this is”, what he meant by calling it an innovation was in the linguistic sense, i.e., it was something new that the people had never done before.

That was because gathering the people in Ramadan every night behind one imam on a continual and organised basis had not been done before. Therefore the context indicates that what was meant was the linguistic meaning, and he did not mean it in the technical shar‘i sense, which means introducing something into the religion that is not part of it, whilst attributing it to the religion. Taraweeh prayer is part of the religion and is something that is prescribed and encouraged; similarly, offering this prayer in congregation is also encouraged and recommended, and the basis for that is proven in the actions and words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

The scholars have stated that:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

This is a description in linguistic terms, not in a technical shar‘i sense. That is because the word innovation (bid‘ah), in linguistic terms, includes everything that is introduced without precedent.

With regard to innovation (bid‘ah) in the technical, shar‘i sense, this refers to something for which there is no shar‘i evidence.

If the words of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) indicate that something is recommended or obligatory after his death, or is indicated in general terms, even though it was not done until after his death – such as the book of charity [a document that listed the rates of zakaah on livestock] that Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) issued – then doing that action after his death may correctly be called an innovation in linguistic terms, because it was something new.

In fact the very religion that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) brought may be called an innovation and may be called something new in linguistic terms, as the envoys of Quraysh said to the Negus (ruler of Abyssinia) concerning the companions of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) who migrated to Abyssinia: These people left the religion of their forefathers and did not enter the religion of the King [i.e., Christianity]; rather they brought an innovated religion that is not known.

Moreover, a deed which is supported by the Qur’an and Sunnah is not an innovation in shar‘i terms, even if it may be described as an innovation in linguistic terms. The word innovation is more general in meaning in the linguistic sense than in the technical shar‘i sense.

It is known that the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), “Every innovation is a going astray,” do not refer to every new thing that is done. In fact the religion of Islam – and indeed every religion brought by the Messengers – was a new thing. Rather what he meant is what is newly introduced of deeds (in the religion) that were not prescribed by him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).

As that is the case, they used to pray the qiyaam of Ramadan (i.e., Taraweeh) at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) both in congregation and individually. He said to them on the third or fourth night, when they gathered: “Nothing prevented me from coming out to join you except the fact that I would not like it to be made obligatory for you. So pray in your houses, for the best prayer a man can offer is in his house, except the prescribed obligatory prayers.”

So he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) explained the reason why he did not come out (to lead them in Taraweeh prayers), which was the fear that it might be made obligatory. Thus it is known that the reason for his coming out to join them was still valid, and that were it not for the fear of it being made obligatory, he would have come out to join them.

But at the time of ‘Umar’s caliphate, he (may Allah be pleased with him) united them behind a single reciter and put lamps in the mosque. This way of doing it – which was to gather in the mosque behind a single imam, with lamps in the mosque – was something that they had not done before, hence it was called an innovation, because it may be described as such in linguistic terms, but it was not an innovation in shar‘i terms, because the Sunnah indicates that it was a righteous deed, were it not for the fear that it might be made obligatory. Fear that it might be made obligatory ceased with the death of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), so there was no longer any reason not to do it.

End quote from Iqtida’ as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem (2/95-97)

Ibn Rajab (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

With regard to what was said by some of the earlier generations about regarding some innovations as good, that refers to innovation in the linguistic sense, not in the technical shar‘i sense. An example of that is what ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, when he united the people in praying qiyaam in Ramadan behind a single imam in the mosque; when he came out and saw the people praying in that manner, he said: What a good innovation this is. And it was narrated from him that he said: If this is an innovation, then what a good innovation. What he meant was that this deed had not been done in this manner before this time, but it had a basis in Islamic teaching that may be referred to, such as the fact that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) used to encourage and urge people to pray qiyaam in Ramadan. At his time, the people used to pray qiyaam in the mosque, in scattered groups and individually, and he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) led his companions in praying qiyaam in Ramadan for several nights. Then he stopped doing that, on the basis that he feared that it might be made obligatory for them, then they would be unable to do it, but there was no fear of that after he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died.

End quote from Jaami‘ al-‘Uloom wa’l-Hikam (2/783)

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The scholars have explained that what ‘Umar meant by that was the linguistic sense, according to Arabic usage, because he (may Allah be pleased with him) united the people behind a single imam, whereas at the time of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq they used to pray in scattered groups. During his time (may Allah be pleased with him), he united them behind a single imam; he passed by them one night as they were praying and said: What a good innovation this is, i.e., uniting them behind a single imam in an ongoing and organised fashion.

This has to do with the linguistic meaning according to Arabic usage; he did not mean that it was an innovations in the technical, shar‘i sense. It is not possible that he (may Allah be pleased with him) could have introduced or approved of (reprehensible) innovations.

End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb (3/33)

Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The words of ‘Umar, “What a good innovation this is”, do not refer to innovation in the technical shar‘i sense, which means introducing something into the religion with no precedent. Rather he was referring to innovation in a linguistic sense..

End quote from Salaat at-Taraweeh (p. 50)

The Sunnah will alway be superior to Shi'ism!

And Allah knows best

Try hard next time. The above is a desperate reply.

1. Whether linguistic or otherwise as your Ulama tried to hoodwink their gullible followers, Umar ibn al-khattab's confession of innovating a BID'AT is one of the most sincere confession he ever made.

# Even the Sunni translator in the above source had to put in bracket "INNOVATION IN RELIGION"

# And Umar ibn al-khattab himself did full explanation of that saying:

"BUT the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.”

That was an indication that he was fully aware of how Prophet established his own. Is Sunnah not better than Umar's BID'AT?


2. GOOD NEWS

We have given you a way out. According to your hadith, Prophet ONLY prayed 23rd, 25th and 27th nights (in the middle of the night till almost fajr) in congregations. He NEVER did in any other nights.


What does Umar established which you practice till date? 29 or 30 nights tarawih immediately after Ishai or some minutes later

Even your sheik Uthaymin warned that to immitate the Prophet exactly is what being refer to following his Sunnah.

Why do you chose to stubbornly refuse the Prophet and follow Umar's BID'AT which your shuyukh tried hard to cajole the gullible that "it's just linguist use of language"

Another Salafi scholar, Shaykh Dr. Muhammad b. Sa’id Raslan al-Makki, in his fatwa reiterates these six criteria also.[8]

Let us compare this with what the Ahlu Sunnah and Salafi observe today :

i. Reason: the second Caliph established it (or whatever the reason is but obviously it is  not to seek Laylat al-Qadr, as laylat al-Qadr is only observed during 3 aforementioned nights).
ii. Type: Tarawih (in line with the ḥadīth of Abdur Rahman bin Abdul Qari) established by the Caliph
iii. Amount: Between 10 - 20 rak’ahs excluding shaf’ and al-witr.
iv. Method: Congregational.
v. Period: the whole night of Ramadan (29 or 30 nights), immediately or some minutes after salat al- Ishai.
vi. Place: Mosque.
We ask how is this practice replicate the Prophet’s sunnah?

Conclusion
It is crystal clear the Prophet never observed qiyam al-layl or tarawih immediately or some minutes after salat al-Ishai. Likewise, he never offered it in congregations for 29 or 30 nights of Ramadan. Rather he constantly offered his supererogatory prayer (qiyam al-layl) individually in the middle of the night with the exception of 23rd, 25th and 27th nights which he offered in congregations. This is what is proven in line with the traditions of Ahlu as-Sunnah. Therefore, it is either the Ahlu as-Sunnah follows this practice of the Prophet or continue with the Bid’at (innovation in religion) established by the Caliph Umar ibn al-khattab. Obviously the latter cannot be smuggled into the first.



REFERENCES

 4. Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah [maktab al-islami, Beirut, 1390 H/1970], vol. 3, p. 337, hadith 2204
http://islamport.com/d/1/mtn/1/73/2692.html

5. Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah [maktab al-islami, Beirut, 1390 H/1970], vol. 3, p. 337, hadith 2206
http://islamport.com/d/1/mtn/1/73/2692.html

6. Narrated Abu Salama bin `Abdur Rahman:

that he asked `Aisha "How was the prayer of Allah’s Messenger (s) in Ramadan?" She replied, "He did not pray more than eleven rak`at in Ramadan or in any other month. He used to pray four rak`at ---- let alone their beauty and length----and then he would pray four ----let alone their beauty and length ---- and then he would pray three rak`at (witr)." She added, "I asked, O Allah’s Messenger (s)! Do you sleep before praying the witr? He replied, O `Aisha! My eyes sleep but my heart does not sleep."

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2013
In-book reference : Book 31, Hadith 6
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 32, Hadith 230
https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/31

7. Source: Majmū’ Fatāwā wa Rasāil, vol. 7, p. 337
http://shamela.ws/browse.php/book-12293/page-2125

8. http://www.rslan.com/tafre31/Mawoled.php


NOTE: This post is the abridged version of the full paper titled "Discussion on tarawih" written by same author and it can be downloaded on pdf here:

https://independent.academia.edu/OlawaleAbdulwasi

HOW THE PROPHET ACTUALLY OBSERVED THE PURPORTED TARAWIH

Interestingly, contrary the aforementioned hadiths, there are few other Ahlu as-Sunnah’s hadith which suggested that the Prophet did led Qiyam al-layl in congregation on another occasion but with few stringent conditions. 

Ahlu as-Sunnah observe their tarawih for 29 or 30 nights (which starts immediately or some minutes after salat al-Ishai) in congregations contrary to what the report said on how the Prophet observed it.

Imam Ibn Khuzaymah documents:

Narrated Nu’aym b. Ziyad Abu Talhah al-Anmari:



I heard al-Nu’man b. Bashir saying on the pulpit of Hims: “We prayed qiyam al-layl with the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, in the month of Ramadan, on the 23rd night till one-third of the night. Then, we prayed qiyam al-layl with him on the 25th night till midnight. Then, we prayed qiyam al-layl with him on the 27th night till we thought that we would miss al-falah; and we used to call it the suhur (i.e. early morning meal in Ramadan).

Shaykh al-A’zami says: Its chain is hasan.


Ibn Khuzaymah also documents:

 Narrated Jubayr b. Nufayr al-Hadrami, from Abu Dharr:

“We fasted along with the Prophet, peace be upon him, in Ramadan, and he did NOT lead us in qiyam al-layl until the 23rd night of the month. He led us in qiyam al-layl until one-third of the night passed. Then, he did not lead us in qiyam al-layl on the 24th night, and he led us in qiyam al-layl on the 25th night until midnight passed. So, I said, “O Messenger of Allāh, peace be upon him, if only we could carry on for the rest of this night of ours.” He said: “Whosoever does qiyam al-layl with the Imām until he finishes, the qiyam of a whole night will be written for him.” Then, he did not lead us in prayer until the 27th night of the month. So, he led us in qiyam al-layl on the 27th night and he gathered his family and his wives. He led us in qiyam al-layl until we feared that we would miss al-falah.” I said: “What is al-falah.” He said: “The suhur.”[5]

Shaykh al-A’zami comments: Its chain is sahih.

So, the Prophet only led the Sahabah in qiyam al-layl on the 23rd, 25th and 27th nights of Ramadan. He did NOT lead them on any other night. Imam Ibn Khuzaymah himself mentions this point when he says:


"The Prophet, peace be upon him, limited praying qiyam al-layl with the people to only these three nights because of the presence of Laylat al-Qadr among them."


Moreover, we understand from the second hadith above that the phrase “Whosoever does qiyam al layl with the Imam until he finishes, the qiyam of a whole night will be written for him” – which Salafis often quote to justify tarawih – relates only to those three nights and nothing else.

Thus, what are the characteristics of the night prayers which the Messenger performed with the Sahabah? Here they are:

i. Reason: To attain Laylat al-Qadr.

ii. Type: Tahajjud (in line with the ḥadīth of al-Hajjaj b. ‘Amr al-Ansari, which indicates that the Messenger only prayed tahajjud in the nights and nothing else).

iii. Amount: 8 rak’ahs (according to an authentic Sunni hadith of Umm al-Muminin ‘Aishah; then, al-shaf’ and al-witr, making it 11 rak’at in total)[6].

iv. Method: Congregational.

v. Period: 23rd night of Ramadan till after one-third of the night; 25th night till after midnight; and 27th night till the time of suhur.


 vi. Place: Mosque.


With these facts in mind, please pay close attention to these words of Salafi Shaykh al-‘Uthaymin:

"Therefore, brothers: No act of ‘ibadah is accepted except with the fulfilment of two fundamental conditions: one of them is sincerity to Allah, and the other is imitation of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him. We already mentioned the proofs for that. We also say: verily, the imitation (of the Prophet) cannot be achieved except if it complies with the Divine Law in six matters, and they are: the reason, the type, the amount, the method, the period, and the place."[7]

# Introduction
 
Tarawih as per Ahlu as-Sunnah (Sunni)’s belief and practice simply refer to supererogatory prayer (nawafil) prayed at night (immediately or some munutes) after salat al-Ishai during the holy month of Ramadan.
 
The majority’s view in the Sunni world is that it is a part of the Sunnah of the Prophet. Indeed, this claim is what makes it highly controversial.


# Genesis of Tarawih

Naturally, the Prophet used to observe Qiyam al-layl (late night payer) after being made obligatory for him by his Lord (see: Surat al-Isra:79; sura al-Muzammil: 1- 4). While this special prayer was only enjoined and made obligatory upon the Prophet, it is optional for his Ummah (followers, community). This was the reason why the Prophet used to pray it alone in the middle of the night.

During the holy month of Ramadan, the Prophet continued this routine act of praying the obligatory Qiyam al-layl. Alas, an incident occurred whereby certain number of his companions found him praying and stood behind him to pray (without his verbal approval for 3 days).

Prophet later disbanded the congregations urging them to pray the supererogatory prayer individually. In fact, he retorted at a point:

 " You are still insisting (on your deed, i.e. Tarawih prayer in the mosque in congregations) that I thought that this prayer (Tarawih) might become obligatory on you.  SO YOU PEOPLE, OFFER THIS PRAYER AT YOUR HOMES, FOR THE BEST PRAYER OF A PERSON IS THE ONE WHICH HE OFFERS AT HOME, EXCEPT THE COMPULSORY  (CONGREGATIONAL) PRAYERS".

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6113
In-book reference : Book 78, Hadith 140
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 8, Book 73, Hadith 134
 https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/78/140



# CALIPH UMAR'S INVENTION

A decade (or more) after the death of the Prophet, the second Caliph Umar ibn al-khattab  (after salat al-Ishai) invented what is today known and practice as "tarawih".

When the Caliph saw people praying individually inside the mosque, he gathered them under one Imam; hence, tarawih started. Then, he said:

 "What an excellent BID’A (i.e. innovation in religion) THIS IS; BUT the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.”

 Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2010
In-book reference : Book 31, Hadith 3
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 32, Hadith 227
 https://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/31/3


And the reporter further interpret the saying of the Caliph to bury any misinterpretation. The reporter says, “He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night”.


 Observe, the Caliph never called this action of his “Sunnah of the Prophet”, rather he called it what it is “Bid’ah (innovation in religion).  To further emphasis it is Bid’ah, he highlighted that the Sunnah of the Prophet (where you observe the qiyam al-layl  in the middle of the night after waking up from sleep) is far better than what he invented (where under his instructions people observed the prayer in congregations before it’s specified time).

This statement of the Caliph never deter the Ahlu as-Sunnah from all sort of excuses: that he did not meant BID'AH, and that what he did was to revive the "Sunnah" of the Prophet which he (the Prophet) feared might turned obligatory.

YakubuA:

So according to you any new issue that come up not mention in the Qur'an or Hadith is permitted because of the Ayah and the hadith you quoted?

Sorry it is not like that in Islam. May be that is what you Shi'a believe but is very wrong.

# According to that noble ayah and hadith, you have no right to declare something haram. In fact, there is a qaida in usul al-fiqh agreed upon by all Muslims (perhaps except the salafi like you ) and the qaida is, "everything is halal (in another report, pure is used) except what is specifically known (via Quran or hadith) to be haram (or impure).

The fact that there is no verse or hadith that made 21st century invention of sorrugacy haram, this is where fuqaha share their expertise. Majority of your Sunni scholars declared it "haram", and majority of Shia scholars declared it permissible.

All we ask is what are the evidences of your scholars making it "haram"? All of them keep on liken it to Zina as quoted by one of you on this same thread. And we challenged that it is not Zina as per Shari'i understanding.

What is your take? You are only here using sahabah excuses: Sahabah used to follow Quran, sahabah used to ask the Prophet, and

Please open your eyes wide. Ain't no sahabah or Prophet here to ask from. This is 21st century invention. Please give me a break.

YakubuA:


I Know the hadith but that does not apply here.

You are either missing the point or deliberately deviating from it. The reference to the Sahabah is in their unanimous understanding that every action require evidence from Allah before is undertaken. This was the reason they sought approval of the messenger of Allah before undertaking any action. And since surrogacy is an action it must have evidence before is allowed in Islam. Absence of that evidence means is not permissible. Hope is clear enough.

Are you even sincere to yourself at all? A clear verse and a clear hadith has been given to you that whatever Allah and His Prophet did not ruled Haram or halal, no one has the right to do so. And everything they have left is never out of forgetfulness but it's a mercy for the Ummah. What else do you want? Are you an antagonist of Quran and authentic hadith?

Here, sahabah are not legislatures. Besides, they never heard of anything from this 21st century. Why did you adamantly keep on bringing them? That's insult to them.

YakubuA:


The Sahabah (RA) do not need to witness modern day development for them to be our reference point in understanding Islam. The point is that they do not undertake any action until they get clearance from the Prophet that it is permissible. Even after the Prophet passed away they refer all matters to the Qur'an and Sunnah as directed by Allah (swt). And the command is still valid on us today. As you know there are 4 sources of Shari'a confirmed by Allah(swt) Qur'an, Sunnah, IjmaasSahabah and Qiyas.

Should I give you another sahih hadith which says at the head of every 100 years, Allah will raise an Alim to reform teachings of Islam?

If Islamic understanding should be restricted with the understanding of 1400 sahabah, there won't be need for reformers at the head of every 100 years.

Wake up. Sahabah knows nothing about 14th century sorrugacy.

YakubuA:


All your quotations are correct. But how do we interpret these quotations? We look at how the Sahaba (RA) lived their lives. It is known to every Muslim by necessity that the Sahaba (RA) never engaged in any action until they sought about its permissiblity from the Prophet (saw). And nobody understand Islam more than the Prophet (saw) whom Allah (swt) told us that his Sahaba (RA) are the best generation of mankind.
So if your interpretation and understanding differ than the Sahaba(RA), Tabi'i or Tabi'i Tabi'i then your interpretation and understanding is wrong.

Unfortunately no sahabah lived to witness modern day development. So issue of Sahabah, tabi'in, tabi' tabi'in does not arise here.

YakubuA:


Brother this is not the case. All actions are sanctioned by the Shari'a which is the speech of the legislator regarding Man/Jinn actions. In other word in Islam before you carryout any action you must have the evidence of its permissibility.

Muslim life is govern or suppose to be govern by the Shari'a. Shari'a is the speech of the Legislator (Allah swt) concerning the action of servant (Man/Jinn). All actions are sanctioned and require evidence from the Legislator (Allah swt).

Surrogacy is an action hence need evidence of its permissibility from Allah (swt) and the fact that there is none confirm that it is not permissible.

Allah and His Prophet warn as per laws of Halal and Haram:


And, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, (saying) This is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a lie against Allah; surely those who forge the lie against Allah shall not prosper." (Surah An-Nahl, Verse 116)

And Imam Abu’l Hasan Ali Daraqutni documents:

Abu Tha’laba reported:

The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, Allah has made duties obligatory, so do not neglect them. He has set limits, so do not transgress them. He has made some things sacred, so do no violate them. He has remained silent upon matters as mercy for you, not out of forgetfulness, so do not search them out.”


Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Ibn Al-Qayyim

 Source: Ali ibn Umar Ad-Daraqutni, Sunan al-Dāraquṭnī (Dar Muhyid, 1422 A.H) Hadith #4316

http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?flag=1&bk_no=76&ID=4213

BumbleDevil:
@ OP, it is evidently clear that your submission is tailored to suit your argument on evil. From a broader perspective, the questions that are actually begging for answers are:

Some of the attributes of God is all powerful, omniscient, all merciful.

If God is all powerful, why can't he take away evil completely. Some people argue that Good and evil must work hand in hand, however this negates the attributes of God as omniscient and Holy.

Kindly refer to OP and endeavor to read to understand. All those ambiguities have been answered already. You can agree or disagree (with philosophical arguments) on the submissions.

BumbleDevil:

If God is all merciful, why do people still die from various natural disasters like earthquake, tornado, tsunami, avalanche etc. Some people argue that man's actions causes all these disasters. Even if man causes all these natural disasters, is God not regarded as all merciful? Infact some atheist sees God as a sadist father who takes delight in the suffering of his children.

If God prevent man from his "evil doings", then what is the essence of intellect and freewill given to him?

According to religious philosophy, part of the essence of man's creation is perfection. Man is first created perfect in his quiditty; then he falls as he try to make use of his freewill and intellect. He will continue to work to rebuild his perfection or destroy it.

On the other hand, religion believe life is not ended with death. With death, another life opens.

sulasa07:

Whos talking about fire,you and I know fire,water,air,sand etc have good sides and bad sides,but evil is when you kill innocent people,fraud people,rape,kidnap for ritual or ransom,sell weapon to thieves and terrorists and killer.The likes of fire,water,air,sand do a lot of good for us,but when they turn against us,it's natural disaster or mistake, so they are not evil.

First, there is nothing like "evil" on its own. It doesn't exist independently. It is usually effect from certain causes or reactions that are not meant to be together.

Second, man is created and given freewill which is to be guided by intellect and other externals. He can on his own freewill effect evil. That should not be blame on God.

sulasa07:

Evil exists as -ve while Goodness exists as +ve,they go hand in hand,and actually rely on one another. That's how this life is,one cannot do without the other and that's why there are rules n regulations. You might say what about neutral-please note,we aren't dealing with Electricity

What you tag evil is called and label so from one smaller perspective. It is intact good in an elaborate perspective. Example of fire is cited. It can burn things to ashes, destroy, kill etc. But fire on its own is a perfect creation. It is only when you defy it that effect resulted from it becomes "evil". Without fire, man can never be progressive today.

Another good example is knife. It's "creation" is perfect. When it is sharpened, it becomes more perfect. It will continue to be in this state of goodness. It cannot cause any effect on its own. Man decide what to use it for.

Poison of a snake is not a poison or evil to it. In fact it is part of what make the snake alive. It is good to its creation. However, it is unfavorable to something else.

Joromi12:
Islam is too rigid. Why use phone and internet. Did abraham not use surogate

Islam is not rigid. In fact it is a religion that fit all ages. For a fact, there is no single direct evidence from the Quran or hadith where surrogacy has been forbidden. It's permissibility or impermissiblility is in line with the view of various Muslim school of thought. In this thread, two opinions (one against, and one for) have been stated.

EVIL: IMPORTANT SUBJECT IN ISLAMIC PHILOSOPHY

https://www.nairaland.com/5158036/evil-important-subject-islamic-philosophy

lanrexlan:
Abeg who are the "WE"?! Are you a scientist ni? Wetin you postulate na? A person who hasn't mixed acid with base to form salt and water joining the league of scientists .Nairaland is a comic relief sometimes

Its like when group of surgeons are talking on surgery and gbadamosi the carpenter naa ndasi

tintingz:
Yes we postulate them at first, at least we have reasonable things to believe in but then we can change our positions towards it.

Science goal is to know not to believe!

You "believe". You "don't believe"? Are you still okay sha?

"We have reasonable things to believe in..." I thought your dictionary said "believe" is blind without proof

Rashduct4luv:


I no get time to argue with you. A Shiite will never stop telling lies. It was practiced and later stopped.

Only in your whims
Besides, you brought the issue of mut'ah now you had to run away from it. Your emotions control your hands a lot

Rashduct4luv:

I will now start looking for IVF in the Qur'an and Hadith right? At least you are a matured adult with reasoning! List out the steps and people involved in the process and mark them accepted or void yourself.

Odabo oga Shiite.

Oga wahabi, now that you have surrendered there is no evidence in the Quran or hadith pertaining to IVF or what is even close to it, then on what basis could you ever declared it haram?

You dubiously label it Zina. You were schooled its not Zina. You dubiously claimed it violate principle of marriage, you were corrected it is not. You played "mut'ah card", you ran away from it. So what is left? Tawheed or Nubuwah?

tintingz:
Ofocs we haven't discover everything, infact there over trillions phenomena we have not discover in the universe.

But scientists (and quack like you) BELIEVE in them

Black hole is a typical example. It took decades before it is seen.

Rashduct4luv:


You know as a Shiite you support temporary marriage so renting of wombs won't be a problem to you guys!

Womb is part of the reproductive system. So renting it out is haram.

Last time I checked your books of ahadith and history, majority of "your" salafs (sahabah and tabi'in) never stopped practicing mut'at al-Nikkah till they died. So, it's not only "shia" acceptable practice. It's Sahabah practice

Anyway, we challenge you to bring a single direct evidence from the Quran or hadith that says IVF is haram as you have erroneously claimed.

tintingz:
There's no above of knowing, you know that's it, you have fact that can never be denied. E.g the Sun.

Believe is taking something as true even when there's no proof, it's same as faith.

There's no blind faith (that your dictionary definition is portraying) in Usul deen (fundamental principles of faith) of Islam. There is rational, philosophical prove for all of these Usul deen. You are not convinced about it so why trying to drag by force those who are not only convinced by it but also satisfied with it? Na by force

Rashduct4luv:


Because it goes against the basic Islamic principle of marriage.

It's like a temporary marriage to a third party to use her womb for the duration of pregnancy!

There is no marriage or temporary marriage here. Those analogies are poor.

Besides, how does it goes against principle of marriage when childless couples can use that mean to get child?
Please give us a break.

No evidence from the Quran or hadith. You are just using your qiyas which is even weak.

Rashduct4luv:

Even if this is not full-scale zinaa (adultery), it is still definitely haraam because it is enabling a man who is a stranger to her (i.e., not married to her) to put his semen in her womb.

Dr. ‘Abd al-‘Azeem al-Mat’ani, al-Azhaar University

It is not even Zina at all, so there is no need of "full-scale zina".

How is IVF haram? Where's the Dr. Abd al-Azeem's dalil? There's absolutely nothing outright in the Quran or hadith that ruled it to be haram.

Child born via this process is never walad al-zina either. There is no zina anywhere.