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Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 2:14pm On Aug 28, 2017
Mujtahida:
You have a good heart. Remain blessed.
You too
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 2:11pm On Aug 28, 2017
frank317:

Is this thing ( I mean the ability to do the opposite of what the creator wants) not part of their creator's creation? If not, where did it came from? Is it packaged with free will or not?
It seems you're trying to not get the point. The ability to do the opposite of what the creator wants is part of free will.
If you're provided with just rice, you'll keep eating rice. You're not exercising your will here, cos you have no options to choose from.
But if we provide beans and you still keep eating rice, then we can say you like rice because you have willingly chosen rice. The beans and rice was provided. You should get the point now.


frank317:

So that means freewill comes with the ability to do the opposite of what the creator want.

frank317:

So that means the creator created man and gave him freewill, which is packaged with the ability to do the opposite of what the creator wants, which implies sinning?...
Yes.

frank317:

Did the creator know the consequence of this ability or not?

Yes he knew (foreknowledge)

frank317:

If he knew... What's the point, knowing that people like me will eventually doubt his existence.
The point is to show that his sovereignty is not threatened by the the ability of his creatures to rebel against him. So, every creature obeys him not because it's compelled to do so or cannot do otherwise, but because he loves the creator and WANTS to serve Him


frank317:

My disposition towards him is as a result of my inability to make sense of him being the all seeing yet acting like he does not see and living by trial and error like one who is not all seeing.
Afterall, he gave me the brain reason this way.
You should be grateful to him that he gave you the ability to think the way you think and not think like an animal (no insult intended please).
He's not living by trial and error. He's omniscient.


frank317:

When u get to heaven, will u have free will?
My getting to heaven will be as a result of my exercising my will to serve Him while in this mortal body.


frank317:

Will u have the ability to do the opposite of what the creator wants?
Yes.


frank317:

Does it mean this circle will continue?
No. When Satan and his cohorts rebelled aeons ago, no angel has rebelled since then. Was their freewill taken away after then? No.

frank317:

Further, so this opposite is evil/sin...that means while giving us free will, he instills in us the ability to sin?

If that's how you chose to understand it, Yes.


frank317:

Does this means that the creator giving us free will , imply giving us the chance to do the opposite of what he wants? Does this opposite means sin?

frank317:

Are saying he therefore gave us free will, which is the ability to sin? What then was he expecting when he gave us the ability to sin?
He expected us to make the right choice. Even when that freedom of choice has been abused, it's still there till today. That's why some some of us can choose to serve God and people like you can choose not to serve God.

I serve God not because of the fear of hell. If there was no hell, I'll still serve Him. And it's a choice I've made and don't intend to change in the future or eternity to come, come what may.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 1:25pm On Aug 28, 2017
Mujtahida:

I detest Christianity (not Christians) not because I don't understand it as you wrongly presume. I detest it precisely because I understand it. I consider the fact that the Bible god(whom I regard as an impostor, a fiction divinized and given sacredness and an idol) 'spoke' in the Bible as the prime evidence that that god is different from the God who created the universe and essentially a false god.
You can't help me believe and live a lie. I will rather die and go to hell than believe in Christianity and it's dead, abstract, twisted, sick and sickening idol of a god
I stand by my word, you don't understand Christianity, you think you do. And there's nothing like Bible god. There's just one God and the Holy Bible bears witness to this God.

Since you have decided your own path, it's your choice. You're not ready to be helped.

But I must say, God loves you and He's more than willing to accept you anytime you turn back to him, even after you've said all these about Him.
In case you find yourself in that position one day, just say Lord I confess that I'm a sinner, please forgive me all my sins. I accept you as my lord and personal saviour.
Religion / Re: Is It Me Or Are Pastors Getting Madder By The Day? by Bolaji21(m): 1:16pm On Aug 28, 2017
superhumanist:



Prophecy? Then what is the point if even your God could see that your religion is doomed with false preachers? It sounds self defeating.

It also sounds as a lazy excuse to avoid dealing with this issue. Because it is prophesied, we shoud not do anything about these crazy pastors?
Yes, prophecy. Our God knew it will happen that's why He informed us ahead so we can be prepared for it. It could have been avoided, but that lies with we men, not God.

I can't guess how it sounds to you, and I'm not sure if you read my post or reading something else into it. By we, do you mean atheists or Christians? Cos we Christians are doing something about it as it's a family affair.
At no point did I say nothing should be done about it. I'm curious, what do you intend to do about it?
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 10:03pm On Aug 27, 2017
Mujtahida:

Religion- at least the christian religion - is just a poor apology for all the mistakes and errors of the Bible god.
The fact that quantum physics doesn't make sense to me as an accountant doesn't mean quantum physics doesn't make sense.
Point of correction, there's just one God and the Bible bears witness of Him.

Instead of me ranting that quantum physics doesn't make (just like some students do nowadays), the right thing to do is to get someone to help me understand, if I want to understand, or I just walk away, if I don't want to understand.

You might do well to share your problems with christianity here, so you can be helped.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 9:36pm On Aug 27, 2017
frank317:

If God wants a kingdom there is kings and kings.. he should just create one already with or without free will.
Let me ask... Must free will be packaged with sin/evil?
If you get heaven at last will u have free will? Will there also be possibility of one sinning? If no, why didn't God start with that instead of all these drama that is not going well with humans, his beloveth. Now he got me doubting him, is that good?
Free will is not packaged with evil/sin. But the creature has the ability to do the opposite of what the creator wants. If the creature can't, then that's not free will.

frank317:

Did God create angels and have them free will that came with package ability to sin?
If God has no evil in him how did he create begins with ability to sin?
If I as a scientist does not have the intelligence to create a flying car, can any car I create ever just develop the ability to fly?
How in the world did an angel get the guts to challenge his maker? What did the maker do wrong?
God created EVERYTHING. Creatures earned the ability to sin when they have free will. I don't know your definition of free will if there's no possibility of rebellion. Free will is the ability to do as you please, whether for or against your creator. If that's not the definition, then it's no longer free will but CONTROLLED WILL.


frank317:

I think he is a bad king after much analysis. I see no justice and love... He must have done something wrong... But then, this is just man made story, that's why there are so many loopholes.

You think he must have done something wrong because of your disposition towards him.


frank317:

Does free will come with evil or sin? If so why? Can't people be free without being evil?
As I've stated earlier, free will comes with the ability to act for or against the creator. If that is not a possibility, then it's not free will but CONTROLLED/REGULATED WILL.

2 Likes

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 3:28pm On Aug 27, 2017
frank317:

-God created angels, they had issues with him and this led to Lucifer, sin and demons.
God created everything (all spirit beings in this case). He created them with free will so they can serve him by their own free will, not because they were compelled to do so or they have no alternatives. God's idea of Kingdom is a kingdom of King and Kings, not king and subjects. He wants to be a king of Kings, not king of subjects.

They (spirit beings) existed and served God for aeons. Then one of them felt he has earned the right to rule the kingdom, instead of the creator ruling. He thought of an insurrection and knew he needed followers to do that. He managed to convince 1/3 of the angelic population.

They began the insurrection as planned. God didn't stampede them. Another created being (Michael) led the remaining 2/3 to defeat this 1/3 rebels.
As we all know, a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The rebels were stripped off everything that glorifies them and were exiled.

In my own opinion, this is justice and love.
You see failure, but I don't think that's correct. We might have been able to argue it as failure if 2/3 of the angels decided to rebel - then we can say maybe God must have been a bad King.

If God had created these brings WITHOUT FREE WILL and they still rebelled, then God must have been a poor creator. Because, if a car manufacturer manufactures a non-automatic car and the car begins to control itself at some point, then the blame goes to the manufacturer.

But these beings were created with FREE WILL. Are we clear on that sir?

1 Like

Religion / Re: Is It A Sin For A Born Again Christian To Drink Palm Wine? by Bolaji21(m): 11:40pm On Aug 26, 2017
asuustrike2009:

Or that he should lay his hand on a packet of cigarette, pray on it and then smoke
Yes. Just as we bless our food before eating.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 11:09pm On Aug 26, 2017
frank317:


Everything... Just everything... And well, it's all clear but does not make sense.

-God created angels, they had issues with him and this led to Lucifer, sin and demons.
-God created man, and had issues with man and this led to death.
-Sin got too much and he decided to destroy man, selecting 8 (supposedly good ones) yet after annihilation of the remaining, sin continue from the so called selected ones.
-he sent Jesus which is himself to die for man kind... Sin still abounds...how meaningless can it get?
All I see is the almighty failing in every project he does.
Thanks for your civil response. Shall we continue each point one after the other tomorrow?
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 1:40pm On Aug 26, 2017
frank317:


Lol...what are u afraid of.

U are asking me to observe like ur are doing anything brilliant. You are repeating the same question even after she answered u in plain language.

And u can't even seen that u have bored the poor girl out... Lol@observe... U de do magic?
Since you have decided to become her defendant and refuse to observe instead, let's continue then. Now, tell me the part of Jesus' death that isn't clear to you and I'll make it clear. I wanted her to ask a direct question so I can give a direct answer.
Religion / Re: Is It A Sin For A Born Again Christian To Drink Palm Wine? by Bolaji21(m): 10:30pm On Aug 25, 2017
Fabulous7:
hi everyone here,i hope you have a nice service in church today.There is this issue that i have found puzzled all this while which go thus,is it sin for a born again christian to drink palm wine? Mature comment please.Thanks.
The question is easily answered. The next time a born again Christian finds himself with a cup of palmwine, let him lay his hands on it, pray and invite Jesus, then drink on.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 10:03pm On Aug 25, 2017
frank317:


She answered ur question... because she found it ridiculous and worth criticising...simple.

It's just like asking someone why he is criticising buhari if the person thinks it's ridiculous for Buhari to leave the country for more than 100 days and come back to act like every thing is ok. Do u think people criticising buhari are obsessed?
As I said earlier, just observe.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Is It Me Or Are Pastors Getting Madder By The Day? by Bolaji21(m): 10:59am On Aug 24, 2017
superhumanist:



I feel that your view on these crazy pastor is both nonchalant and dangerous. It is like you are denying that christians (the crazy pastors) can do bad things and also, it is like you have no empathy for the members of those churches who are being abused and deceived.

You misunderstood me. I didn't deny that Christians can do those crazy things. In fact, I said it's not surprising cos it's been prophecied.

And as for empathy, your post wasn't about the members, but the pastors.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 7:14am On Aug 24, 2017
frank317:

Yes, she can't understand, it makes no sense and she finds it ridiculous. She also has the right to criticize and talk about it. You labelling her God hater or obsessed is just you think to shy away from the fact that it is actually ridiculous for the creator of the world to love so much senseless drama.
I prefer her style of responding and I'd rather continue my chat with her. I never said she doesn't have a right and I didn't label her. I only asked simple questions. I'd suggest you stay and observe.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 6:16pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:


I do not hate Jesus duh

the death of Christ seems ridiculous to me hence the meme you see as my dp. I do not see how that translates to hating Jesus Iam simply skeptical of his divinifty.

I'm far from obsessed with Christianity. I comment on it because it is the dominant religion around where I live and I understand it more.
your summary is wrong.

ciao
I like your thinking, it's commendable.
@bolded, It's ridiculous cos you can't understand why an omnipotent God can't just forgive all without having to kill Jesus first, right?
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 4:36pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:


I enjoy visiting nairaland simple. I have interest in religion, crime and family section. I'm not a criminal tho. I simply enjoy reading the debates. I have answered your question.
Yes, I noticed too. And your dp is about the most popular man in history whom seem not to like. Why choose Him of all things that you can use as DP? The questions will keep birthing more questions. So, no need to continue.
The summary is that you're obsessed with religion (Christianity of course, and Jesus) and you spend most of your time here defending your obsession.

If I may ask, why do you hate religion, Christianity and Jesus?

1 Like

Religion / Re: Why Are There Many Different Religions. by Bolaji21(m): 4:23pm On Aug 23, 2017
dalaman:
I saw a Hindu explaining his religion to a Muslim few days ago. It was a very interesting encounter. smiley

My question is for the theist in the house, why are there many different religions in the world?
Man was designed as a derived being, able to convey a higher being. Man is also to tame the earth.


This rare feature made man adventurous by nature and also domineering by instinct.


The 2 features above, made early men in various parts of the world go on adventure to seek the Unknown. Some encountered strange beings and derived knowledge from them. With the support of these beings, these men became powerful enough to command worship (religion is birthed).

Why didn't man stop at one religion? Because the 'hollow' in him can only be filled by One Being - The Creator. So, man kept exploring.
Man in this context mean "men in various times on various parts of the world".

1 Like 1 Share

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 3:58pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:


you make no sense. there are religious people that do not comment on religious section does it mean they automatically have no interest in religion.

You're dodging the question.
Everybody has a family, but does everyone comment/visit family section? Does that mean they don't have a family? No. Is that odd? No it's not. But it becomes odd when a fella claims not to have (or intend/wish to have) a family, yet spends most of his time on nairaland in the family section.

Or maybe I should ask, did you study or are you studying philosophy/religion/history in school? Cos those are the fields that may propel interest in religion even though you claim not to have one.
Instead of putting up a defense, just ask yourself the question and answer yourself. When you have an answer, you may share with me.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 3:32pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:


stop. the topics I comment on doesn't have to make front page before I can comment. the topics I commented on in crime, romance and family are not front page topics. I enjoy going through nairaland and I comment on topics that catch my fancy.
. if you belief deism is a religion thats ur personal opinion and not a fact.
Yes, I understand. But it still doesn't change the fact that most of your comments are on RELIGION section. The question still stands - why is that so?
I rest my case.
Religion / Re: Is It Me Or Are Pastors Getting Madder By The Day? by Bolaji21(m): 3:00pm On Aug 23, 2017
superhumanist:
I truly wonder what is happening nowadays inside churches. First, we heard a pastor brainwashing members to eat grass. Another pastor sprayed insecticide on members as "anointment". Another pastor said that his semen is "holy milk". Another pastor impregnated a woman that was looking for cure for a sickness.

And today, I am hearing that a pastor said that he wrestled God in heaven- WWE style like John Cena with suplex and submission moves.


Dear friends, is something wrong with christianity nowadays?
Dear Superhumanist,
Nothing is wrong with Christianity: God has not changed and he won't. The Bible doesn't have a second edition yet.

But as for the mortals you mentioned, they're obviously not representing the God of the Christians in this matter.
But we as Christians are not ashamed, neither are really surprised because it has been recorded centuries before now that such events will occur.
This further strengthens rather than weaken our faith in the omniscient God whom we believe and serve.

2 Likes

Religion / Re: Epic Response To An Astronaut Who Said 'I See No God Up Here' by Bolaji21(m): 2:46pm On Aug 23, 2017
faseblex:


Amazing response!

MORE @: http://trendzbase..com/2017/08/epic-response-to-astronaut-who-said-i.html

Lalasticlala, Mynd44
It's either the astronaut doesn't know science well enough or is just a religious fanatic (or both).
The very foundations of Science was built not on what CAN BE SEEN, but what CAN BE PROVEN.

2 Likes

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 2:38pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:
cheesy ok sorry sir.

but there is no sense in your last paragraph. I reply every post that catches my interest. I'm also active in the family section.
You obviously didn't get the point. Topics from at least 10 sections of nairaland make front page daily, and only the religious ones catches your interest?

Don't forget that this thread didn't make front page, so you couldn't have gotten here through front page. Now, of the 20+ sections on nairaland, you spend most of your time on nairaland in RELIGION and family section. That doesn't add up. Cos We'd have expected that you'll never visit the religion section. For example, I don't think I've ever visited the fashion section.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 2:16pm On Aug 23, 2017
superhumanist:



If I believe in Cristiano Ronaldo to win the world best every year till he retires, is that religion? Or is your definition of religion too vague.
If you just BELIEVE IN CRonaldo, that's enough to be a religion. But if you BELIEVE IN CRonaldo TO.

And by the way, Yes, soccer is a religion to some people.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 2:11pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:


they are not the same. One involves worship and belief in the interference of a god, the other just stops at belief in the existence of a supreme being. with no books, no altar, no place of worship and no doctrines.
They are the same in context, they just have differences in practice. BELIEF IN is the key phrase. Man as a creature was designed to BELIEF IN something and by extension worship it.


Worship means to show REFERENCE. Now, other religions have predefined ways of showing reverence to their object. But in your own case, you show reverence spontaneously. One example is your staying active in RELIGION section on nairaland. another example, is your replying to my posts here instead of passing by.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 1:53pm On Aug 23, 2017
superhumanist:



It seems like you do not have a dictionary.
Help me check yours and provide the definitions.
Or let me help: RELIGION IS BELIEF IN SOMETHING (OR SOMEONE). Ask yourself why your most active section on nairaland is religion section, of all sections on nairaland. And ask yourself why you felt the need to defend and agitate for this belief of yours.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 1:34pm On Aug 23, 2017
Proudgorgeousga:



religion
noun

the belief in in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

deism
noun
1. belief in in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe.


how are they the same?
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 12:45pm On Aug 23, 2017
superhumanist:


Deism is not a religion
That's what the deceiver has made you believe. Define RELIGION and see for yourself.
Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 12:43pm On Aug 21, 2017
superhumanist:

I must first state that I am not an atheist but I am a deist. I was enlightened by an atheist when I was a christian and I left the religion.

Having grown up in a religious village, I was exposed to a lot of superstitious beliefs which were sometimes harmful to innocent people. It was an atheist roommate in the city who helped me to understand that life is not kind to ignorant superstitions. I will never forget this roommate of mine who fought with me tirelessly in order to get me to stop doing ignorant things in the name of religion. I hated him in the beginning and now I really respect him.

I still believe in a god atheism is defined as Belief that no deities exist (sometimes including rejection of other religious beliefs) but not the Christian god or personal god.


I believe that atheists have a role to play in Nigeria even if it only begins on the Internet (Internet crusade) . Atheists could save (atheism offering salvation) many people from superstitious rubbish. What if I told you that I regret beating up a child who I thought was a witch? repentance An innocent child. That was who I was when I was deeply religious. My point is that atheists should keep up the arguments and debates. You never know who you could change (you mean redeem)

I know some people will disagree with me and that is fine. It is a free world. Peace.
The atheist obviously did an incomplete job on you, cos he succeeded in turning you to deist, and not an atheist. You may sound better if you put points forward to establish the validity and soundness of your religion, deism.
Religion / Re: If Evans Is Given State Pardon And Became A Pastor, Can God Use Him Like Paul? by Bolaji21(m): 11:14pm On Aug 20, 2017
Beosten:
That's the question.
Can God use him? Yes, if he becomes born again. What God will use for will depend on what God intended him to do when he brought him into existence.

Can God use him like Paul? No. Why? Paul was a radical follower of Judaism (which was later useful). Evans is a criminal. Do you know what happened to criminals in the Bible? They were crucified!
Religion / Re: Is Hell Real Or A Metaphor ? by Bolaji21(m): 11:06pm On Aug 20, 2017
Idango:
The subject of hell is something most people will rather not talk about .
Most preachers have avoided talking about hell, they will rather preach about the love of God than to mention hell fire. Some have even said that the love of God is so great that he can't throw anyone into hell and that hell is just a metaphor.

The bible in Psalm 9:17 said that the wicked shall be turn to hell and all the nations that forget God.

The bible in the new testament talk about hell in 162 texts , 70 of these were uttered by the Lord Jesus christ himself.

Revelation 20 :15 says " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Hell is a place of torment for unrepentant sinners.

What do you think about hell ?
To doubt the existence of hell is to doubt the very existence of God. Jesus was not been metaphorical whrn he was talking about hell.
In luke 16:19-31, Jesus told us a story that gives tangible insight as to what happens after death. Verse 23 and 24 reads

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame

Verse 23 makes us know the rich man was in torment. And verse 24 makes us know how he was been tormented - flames. Now, is there any other literal way to show that hell is real?

2 Likes 1 Share

Religion / Re: Why Atheists Must Preach And Evangelise by Bolaji21(m): 10:55pm On Aug 20, 2017
superhumanist:

I must first state that I am not an atheist but I am a deist. I was enlightened by an atheist when I was a christian and I left the religion.

Having grown up in a religious village, I was exposed to a lot of superstitious beliefs which were sometimes harmful to innocent people. It was an atheist roommate in the city who helped me to understand that life is not kind to ignorant superstitions. I will never forget this roommate of mine who fought with me tirelessly in order to get me to stop doing ignorant things in the name of religion. I hated him in the beginning and now I really respect him.

I still believe in a god but not the christian god or personal god.


I believe that atheists have a role to play in Nigeria even if it only begins on the internet. Atheists could save many people from superstitious rubbish. What if I told you that I regret beating up a child who I thought was a witch? An innocent child. That was who I was when I was deeply religious. My point is that atheists should keep up the arguments and debates. You never know who you could change.

I know some people will disagree with me and that is fine. It is a free world. Peace.
And what are atheists supposed to be preaching? That God doesn't exist and all religions are false, right? That in itself, is RELIGION.
Some people BELIEVE there's God, and some BELIEVE there's no God. Both categories BELIEVE some thing.

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