coolzeal:
Chief Awolowo has been variously accused of introducing tribalism into the Nigerian politics. He chased Dr Azikiwe out of the Ibadan in 1954 when the NCNC headed by Azikiwe won majority seats in the West Nigerian House of Assembly and through a palace coup called cross carpeting Zik was denied the Premiership of Western Nigeria, at a time when Professor Eyo Ita, an Efik was premier of Eastern Region and Alhaji Umoru Altine , a Fulani, was Mayor of Enugu. Dr Azikiwe, following the footsteps of Awolowo, had to frustrate Professor Eyo Ita out of Enugu. Chief Awolowo and Sir Ahmadu Bello seems to have a deeper understanding of the Nigerian complexities than Dr Azikiwe.
While Awolowo never trusted the Igbos, the north never trusted Awolowo and theYorubas. The northern oligarchy instigated crisis in Western Nigeria in the same manner President Obasanjo used the Uba brothers to instigate crisis in Anambra State. This crisis led to the trumped up charges leading to the trial and imprisonment of Awolowo . Reports has it that he was to be poisoned in prison before the military coup altered the state of affairs.

I would've gone further but No!!... Let me keep it that way madam.. Have a nice day.

Do you have the breakdown of the election results? I hope your source is not one of the often repeated but never fact-supported ones.

The Election was in 1951 and not 1954.

9jacrip

Always representing positively. I am proud of you bro.

Please continue to share your knowledge of Yoruba culture and history.


@ All

Please learn to ignore those who display the ability of being resistant to knowledge. Especially those who look down on their own culture thinking it is lesser than foreign ones.

SirShymexx:


The Owiwi war was between Remo and certain Ijebu towns, and the Egbas - fought on Egbado land - not necessarily an all out Ijebu war.

Based on warfare, I believe a defeat of the Ijebu would be the sacking of Ijebu Kingdom - and no one ever achieved that.

First, a defeat doesn't necessarily have to result in the sacking of a town. Henry V defeated the French at Agincourt; was France burned downed? A defeat can be as simple as a retreat from fighting, in which the winners are satisfied that the other side ran and so check their aggression or as dastardly as the place being sacked.

Second, If a part of kingdom or country suffers defeat in war, then the Kingdom or country as suffered that defeat. There is no such thing as it was Remo that lost. Remo is Ijebu and it was Ijebu that lost. Both Johnson and Biobaku referred to one side of the conflict as Ijebu.

SirShymexx:

Big Kats, what's an Ilari?
Anyway, which of the Awujales cos I know Ijebu Kingdom predated both Oyo and Bini. Not saying Ijebu was ever militarily powerful enough to challenge Oyo - but it seems the relationship was both symbiotic and cordial, and not necessarily one of a vassal state. Think Spartans and other Greeks. Or maybe, the relationship between Scotland and England thrones from the time of James VI.
Regardless, I'm open to learning new scholarship and gaining knowledge. However, from what is documented - no stranger was ever allowed through the Ijebu Kingdom, not even Oyo - and even Ibadan at the height of its military. Only the Brits were able to break that, after the defeat of the Ijebus at Imagbon, during the Anglo/Ijebu war.
I remember PhysicsQED made the same claims about Bini as well by citing some oral boastfulness of some Bini palace attendant, to explorers - in which they questioned as well due to lack of any evidence whatsoever. However, when I asked to provide documented evidence, with pronounced cultural influences Bini had on the Ijebus - like the other Bini vassals like: Eko, Owo, the groups in Ondo, and all the Niger Delta groups - he couldn't produce anything. But there are more pronounced Ijebu cultural influences on the Binis, than the other way around.
P.S: not saying Ijebu Kingdom was militarily powerful - it is just a mystery that none of the two big empires it was surrounded by, were able to make it a proper vassal like they did to other places.

An Ilari is a representative of the Alaafin away from the palace or a servant while at the Palace. Oyo used Ilaris to deliver messages to vassal states and to collect tributes. Lishabi gained independence for the Egba by killing the Ilari in his town and this spread to other Egba towns. Over 600 Ilaris were killed in that uprising.

Awujale may predate Oyo and Bini but that doesn't mean that there was an Awujale there. When Oduduwa's sons moved from Ife to other towns, don't you believe there were other Yoruba people in those places? They simply started ruling dynasties in those places. When the Saxons and Franks started migrating from Germany to England and France, they met local people in those countries and they created ruling dynasties which lasted for over 600 years until the Vikings took over.

A state doesn't have to defeated at war before it recognises the power of a tributary. Not all Yoruba towns were defeated by Oyo. What is the height of Ijebu power? Ijebu came to relevance in the 19th century after the fall of Oyo. The same with Egba. Ife was allied to Oyo and then to Ibadan before it switched sides to the confederates during the Kiriji war. Should Ife now say that it was as strong as Oyo or Ibadan?

Just to add a voice to the debate about First Class Kings.

There is a difference between a King being one of the Seven Obalades and a King elevated by political office holders. For the former, you were one of Alaafin of Oyo, Olowu of Owu, Orangun of Ila-orangun, the Owaoboku of Ijeshaland, the Alaketu of Ketu, the Onipopo of Popo, and the Onisabe of Sabe. In the latter, your kingdom was/is elevated by a governor of a state.

For me, the relevant Yoruba kings are the seven obalades as well as the kings who fought and gained their independence from Oyo & Ibadan - Alake, Awujale, Ooni. If you were in the audience when Kiriji was being fought, then you can't be too relevant. Of course Eko did not partake but Eko must be relevant.


For the umpteenth time, Alaafin was never the paramount ruler in Yorubaland. Alaafin was the strongest king at some point but that is not enough to make it the paramount office.

SirShymexx:


Erm, you have to respect the greatness of Oyo. And Ife gave all Yorubas something deeper than rap.

But the rest were conquered, so Awujale reigns supreme over all of them.

Hold on

Awujale was an Ilari sent from Oyo to settle a dispute. Ijebu was definitely a vassal of Oyo.

9jacrip:



Yes, you are right that not every town or kingdoms descended from Oduduwa - pre oduduwa period, some towns were already in existence or came into existence at the dame time such as Igbomina but saying there is no such thing as Yoruba land is debatable.

My argument is that, linguistically towns in western Nigerian are all wired together, kingship structure as well as war and diplomatic relations over the years - which spread as far as Benin and Togo. Those factors and some others have forged us into a single unit.

And if you are arguing Yoruba as an encompassing nomenclature then every town asides Oyo could detach itself from being called Yoruba but then what do we call ourselves after eons of shared history?

I think the spread of the use of Oduduwa name was due to conquests of his sons and acclaimed sons, Oyo conquests and kings seeking to validate their thrones but then, we have all, over many centuries evolved to become Yoruba.

Correct

Yoruba predates Oduduwa. The various kingdoms under different Saxon kings in the English isles didn't identify as English originally. Through the unification of these kingdoms under the heirs of Alfred, the inhabitants of the isles would identify as English.

seunfly:

Oboy!!!!! That name go fear you ooooo, you will know he is real traditional man. Esugbayi = Adoration to Satan or Satan has respect.

Christians were the ones who erroneously referred to Esu as Satan. Esu is an Orisha who connects Orun to Aiye. Think Hermes in Greek mythology.

hercules07:


I might have read it wrong then, are you quoting from Johnson's book?

Both Johnson and Akinjogbin

hercules07:

The guy just put a big hole in my praise of the Ijebus, oya, Ijebus were weaklings, Egbas were the masters, but, why were the Ijebus supporting the Egbas against Ibadan when the Ibadans were actually defending an Ijebu town?

These are different conflicts. In the first Iperu war, The Ibadans came to the rescue of the Ijebus against the Egbas. In the second Iperu war, some Ijebus aligned with the Egbas and Ijayes against Remo because it supported the Ibadans during the Ijaye war.

SirShymexx:

The big Kats is here.
Anyway, was the Owiwi war between Ijebu Kingdom and the Egbas, or just Remos and a few Ijebu towns Vs. Egbas?

It was against the Ijebus; not just Remo. See above for more details.

SirShymexx:


I think that was cos the Ijebus were supplying Ibadan with more than enough weapons. The Egbas on the other hand were getting weapons from the Baptist Church and Christian missionaries.

Katsumoto needs to come here to enlighten us.

And @ Hercules

The Egbas defeated the Ijebu and a portion of the Ibadan Army at Owiwi. The Egbas would later defeat the Ibadans during the Oniyefun war. The Ibadans would seek revenge for that defeat and waged the Jabara war. Even though Kurunmi was allied to the Ibadans, they were still defeated by the Egbas. The Egbas would later gain a military advantage over the Ijebu and had defeated the Ijebus and Ibadans during the Iperu war until Lakanle, the Ibadan war chief responded to a call for aid by the Ijebus. The Egbas would later defeat the Ibadans during the Ota war.

The Ijebu would not campaign against the Egba again and both would be on the same side against Ibadan during the Kiriji war.
It was the Egbas who stood up to Ibadan. No other side gained an advantage over the Ibadans.

mbulela:

You harsh o.
Wait until Abati writes a book of how all his efforts in govt were truncated by dark forces and gets re-assimilated into the club of "progressives".
Or if he happens to transit to higher glory (not that I am wishing him that, I need to make that point clear), then you will hear eulogies that will make Christ Himself envious.

No big deal if that happens; just as long he spends the rest of his miserable life away from public office. I will disband the Boy Scouts GLOBALLY rather than make him a troop leader of the boys scout.

naijababe:

Give me a hug Katz, Nuhu in my opinion genuinely mean well for Nigeria and given the dearth of 'good men' in our political landscape, it will be a huge shame if Nuhu gets consigned to ignominy just like that.

*** Gives NB a big hug for 10 minutes and a kiss on both cheeks ***

I am with Naijababe

I think Nuhu can still be useful.

Abati on the otherhand, offers nothing, not even to his own family.

Like they say, every dog has its day. Unfortunately, Abati is a rat.

9jacrip, SirShymexx & Pendicle

You chaps are amazing.

These new Yoruba consciousness gladdens my heart.

I do hope that the old Yoruba festivals can be revived.

Lagos, no man's land - we shall see.

demandtruth:


He lacks the mental capacity for this discuss.

It's symptomatic of their character. They just assume that all other
society that exist, based on their parochial attitudes, must follow
their defined boundaries

Sometimes, when we indulge the comments from this folk, its not because we have nothing to do or we don't know better. We do so simply to educate those who don't know but have the ability to process data in a logical manner.

emmysoftyou:
bro,is that statement not contradicting?if no..

Lagos or any other states in nigeria cannot survives or be successful on its own without other immigrant cos it s even immigrants that
makes a place or city more successful.

Without foreigners like ndiigbos,hausas and ijaws or few white men called immigrant,how do yu think lagos will be successful without exchanging lucrative ideas,development ideas and technological ideas from these immigrant?
Absence of foreign investor will slow the success of lagos..

Except I don't understand or know what yu mean
by being successful and the latter growth.

No man is an island in this world,yu need to mingle and tangle before yu become successful.

No it is not contradictory. Let me explain.

Suppose the GDP of Lagos without immigrants is $100 but with immigrants, the GDP is $130. So the growth attributable to immigrants is $30; so do we say because of $30, Lagos wouldn't be successful?

The thing about migration is that economic migrants move to economically viable places. And there was migration to Lagos from the Yoruba areas even before the Brits arrived. Mind you, there were no states back.

There are many chinese and indian inventors in the US but little to none American inventors in China & India. Most of these Chinese & Indian inventors are successful because the US environment was to their advantage but they don't have these advantages in China & India. Do we say China & India are contributing to the US economy? Why are there more successful Chinese & Indian inventors in the US than in China & India?

Also, there are two kinds of immigrants
1. Those who are looking for jobs
2. Those with cash and looking to invest (Think Russians in London)

Many migrants to Lagos are in group 1. So why do these group of migrants always overstate their importance to the Lagos economy? Even Russians who have a lot of liquid assets in London don't think the London economy would collapse without them.

emmysoftyou:
damn if yu know the administrator why not tell us..
But yu cannot deny that the portuguese were once in lagos and gave it a name that we use till date..

Ikpi... Shoro niyen

The OP stated that the Portuguese 'owned' Lagos. Hence my question to him to provide
1. The dates when the Portuguese owned Lagos
2. The Portuguese administrators of Lagos. We know the names of the British administrators such as Freeman, Maloney, Glover. Why can't the dude provide the names of the Portuguese administrators?

pazienza:



Lagos is what it is today, not because of just the Yorubas, but because of the rest of Nigeria.

If it were just the Yorubas, Lagos won't look any different from Ibadan, Ibadan is a perfect reflection of what Yorubas are capable of doing alone, it was the seat of Awo's Western region, and before then, it was the Capital of the Oyo nation.

The most imporrant things that made Lagos a modern city were provided by the Nigerian factor.

Lagos has been massively invested on, by first, the Colonials, who used resources gotten from Lagos colony and the rest of the country, then the FG that did the same, and continues doing same till today.

It hosts the main international airport in Nigeria.
It hosts the main sea port of the country.
It benefits massively from the population of the rest of the country, such that many foreign firms and investors that got attracted to the country because of the population of the country, base there and from there reach the rest of the country.


Lagos became what it is today basically because of Nigeria, and won't remain the same when Nigeria ceases to exist.

You keep making reference to what cities look like. Does Atlanta 'look' like New York or does Los Angeles 'look' like Austin. Each city is allowed to have its own character. Without a doubt, immigrants have contributed to the growth of Lagos but to suggest that Lagos is 'successful' because of immigrants is mischievous. You folk, lazily refer to Lagos State as the former Capital but Lagos State was never the Capital.

What was provided in Lagos that wasn't provided in other states? Lagos had a major seaport before the Brits arrived.

Lagos provides an environment that enable people to get on in life. How many immigrants in Lagos arrived Lagos and were able to lease properties immediately let alone owning their own homes? There are many Nigerians who cant even visit their home states without fearing being kidnapped or bombed.

Lagos will survive without immigrants.

Ikengawo:


lMFAOOO so you didn't know the portugese owned Lagos after the Bini?
Son of the Oil lol. Product of child marriage and free education

You said the Portuguese owned Lagos. I have been asking you for the details.

When did the Portuguese own Lagos? Who were the administrators?

These are simple questions and yet you are bobbing and weaving as if I asked you to set your ar.se.

pazienza:


Paper GDP that doesn't reflect in people's standard of living, no thanks, I think I will pass. *grins*

The fact remains that infrastructurally speaking, Oyo is not amongst the bests in Nigeria.

Which goes to show that it was built solely by the Yorubas, unlike Lagos.

Thanks.

Ok, I get you.

We should ignore objective standards and go with subjective standards such as infrastructurally speaking.

When they tell you to go to school, you argue against it and then embarrass yourself when debating topics that are above your head.

Lagos has many advantages over Oyo and for that, it is better developed than Oyo. It has nothing to do with immigrants in Lagos. Lagos had more economic activity than Oyo before both became colonies of the British. That is what you need to understand. Or did any economic historian state that Oyo had more economic activity than Lagos before Lagos Island became capital. Also, most of current Lagos state were parts of the old western region.

pazienza:


Irrelevant questions!

See better questions here:

1: Ibadan was the Capital of Yorubaland and Western region, why does it not look as developed as Lagos?

2.Who is the Oba of Ilorin?

First my question was a direct response to the ignorance displayed by the OP. I didn't just ask questions for the sake of asking.

Second, development is such a subjective term. So I will defer to a better term for economic activity - GDP. The only states that have a higher GDP than Oyo are Lagos and two Oil producing states (Rivers & Delta). Crucially, Oyo has a higher GDP than all states in the South East. I think that should concern you more.

Third, there is no Oba in Ilorin, there is an Emir who, allegedly, speaks Yoruba.

OrlandoOwoh:
I'm happy, Katsumoto is back.

Chief Orlando

Eyon mi, kilon shele?

Ikengawo:




LOL Lagos is portugese for Lagoons you ignorant bitche. I can name Igbo adminstrators of Lagos if you want

Then Moscow city in Kansas is so named because the Russians were administrators in the US

I see you tried to use insults to avoid answering my questions. Don't embarrass your family with your ignorance; just answer the questions or admit you are ignorant.

Ikengawo:


Fulanis are the 'host' in Ilorin. Why does anyone need to 'appreciate' you as a yoruba man. What have you done for any living human being. Someone who struggled to reach Lagos, build a business that services Lagos with his own hardwork needs to thank you because you came out of the stinking hole of a Y*ruba woman? What part of his or her success were you as a yoruba person? Someone will be thanking you everyday because the name you believe is your father came from Osun state.


90% of the yoruba people in LAgos aren't even from Lagos. Have they thanked their 'host'? What makes Lagos Yoruba? A Bini colony turned portuguese colony, turned british colony, turned capital. It's only in the past 12 years that yorubas have governed Lagos. Did you know that an Igbo man has governed Lagos before? No you didn't but you're more Lagosian than someone else because you're from a cave in Osun.

I see you are still reading the history books written by your father and uncles

Please answer the following
1. What is the difference between Lagos Island and Lagos State?
2. When was Lagos State the Capital of Nigeria?
3. Name all the democratically elected governors of Lagos
4. When was Lagos a Portuguese colony?
5. Name the Portuguese administrators of Lagos
6. What language is spoken in Ilorin?

mbulela:

Chief, don't be scarce again o.
Some of us miss you when you disappear even when we do not always agree with you.

My person, I hope you are well. I will try to visit more often, although I have been very busy of late.

Thanks

CFCfan:
7 political parties (possibly 4 or 5 contesting the presidency) would be ideal for the polity.

Cc: Laslasticlala, IGBOSON2, Katsumoto

Too many parties (anything more than 3) would create situations where it is difficult for one party to achieve a majority the first time. Requiring at least 2 rounds before a winner is declared. That leads to problems.

Muyogoa:
my intention is not to divide anyone, i only asked a question.

Your thread is divisive, asinine, and lacking in anything educational.

Make sure you ask those around you for permission before opening another thread.

SirShymexx:


Thanks.

But this is an excerpt from the link:

More recently, it has been suggested that the sale, and its seemingly inept management, was a deliberate attempt to drive down the gold price in order to rescue several banks which had highly leveraged short positions in gold.

^^^I believe Barclays Bank for example benefited from it. Ditto RBS and HSBC.

In Economics, we don't use conspiracy theories to explain policy. Brown was inept for the sale; end of story.

SirShymexx:


Comprehende. But were they aware of the plan before hand?

However, there was another school of thought that believes that he did it to save the financial institutions, since that's the backbone of London's economy.

Just read this Bro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of_UK_gold_reserves,_1999%E2%80%932002

SirShymexx:


The policies were too one-sided.

How did it happen? And doesn't the Bank of Gold coordinate the economic/financial decisions with the Chancellor? And who keeps the gold reserves?

I already provided that but I ll do so again. He sold half the reserves to buy Euros and other financial instruments because he wanted to diversify reserve holdings.

So that there are no issues with actions in terms of need, the remits of the exchequer and BoE are clearly delineated. Exchequer controls Revenue, Spending, Budgets while BoE manages Inflation, Currency, interest rates. This decision was down to Brown and its referred to as the Brown Bottom.

SirShymexx:

Lol. Don't disrespect the ancient Mugabe.
She was the last Queen of Scotland and she ruled the Scots with an iron fist. So, I think she would have been Idi Amin.

You and Coogar are both mad.

SirShymexx:


Erm, after doing extensive reading - I shall come back with facts. I need to consult the old Brit heads on CIF for pointers.

At the end of the day, she'll always be remembered for tearing the country apart, and favouring the South, while impoverishing the North, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales.

You need economic policies; ask them for that.

SirShymexx:

But George and King were in control of the Bank of England when he sold the gold reserves during the tenures I believe. He was caught between a rock and a hard place. And he did what he had to do. Financial institutions were short of gold - and London depends on the financial market for its survival.

It had nothing to do with the Bank of England. And that's not quite how it happened.

coogar:


come on, britain ain't greece!
there's no way they would have collapsed like greece in the late 70s. besides, you have the option of the financial market like you suggested.

thatcher's policy made people poorer. she contrived the collapse of britain as an industrial power....she wasted the opportunity of the windfall find of the north sea oil & completely eroded the ideology of common welfare.

nothing can convince me thatcher's policies were the best option as at then. her primary motive was to destroy the foundation of the labour party cos they were her biggest adversary. every other issue were purely an academic point.

But the UK was in a worse situation than Greece is in right now. And no, the option of financial markets wasn't there. Hence why the Labour government went to the IMF.

As for your comment about destroying the Labour party, Callaghan's Labour government was brought down by the Unions. Isn't that Ironic?

SirShymexx:


However, her housing policy only favoured those in the South, who had jobs. The folks up North who had their jobs taken away from them never had that luxury.

I believe both Edward George and Mervyn King favoured what Gordon Brown did. So, how come folks keep blaming only him for selling the gold reserves? He did what he had to do, and it helped in stabilising the financial market. If nothing had been done - London would've lost out on the long short cos there was shortage of gold reserves on global market. UK paid the price to save London.

I don't understand what you mean by George & King favoring what Brown did. Brown sold the Gold reserves in 1999/2000 using an announced auction which drove the price of Gold lower. And he did it not in response to some economic problem but so he could buy the Euros and other Financial instruments. He called it divesting the reserves.