Listen to these children recite the Ifa scripture. Isn't it time we return to our roots? This is our inspiration.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLNWvGwKlWI&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuM3c5g-CVo

Negro_Ntns:

Listen to these children recite the Ifa scripture. Isn't it time we return to our roots? This is our inspiration.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLNWvGwKlWI&feature=related

This first one goes: Eni a ba wa l'a ba rele
The person we came with is the person we'll return with
Eni aja ba wa li aja ba lo
The one the dog came with is the one that the dog will return with
A dia fun eji koko iwori
Was divined for double knot iwori
Eyi to teju mo akapa re giri giri
The one who focuses his eyes on his disciples without flinching
Ifa teju mo mi ko wo mi re
Ifa focus your gaze on me and look at me well

. . . .

And this one . . .

Negro_Ntns:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuM3c5g-CVo

. . . goes
Ogbe Oyeku ni baba Amulu
Ogbe Oyeku is the master of the combinations
Ori O gbo
Ori will Mature
Ori A to
Ori will live long
Oko omidan
The husband of young maidens
etc etc . . .

.

Aboru aboye o

Ela ro wa Ela ro Ela ro wa
Orunmila ro wa
bi o ba nbe l'oko ki ode
Bi o ba nbe l'oja ki o bo
Bi o ba nbe ni Iwonran-Ola
ni bi Ojumo rere gbe n mo wa
Ki o ran wa dandan
Ere tete ni teku Agege
Ilakosinmoba ki gbouhun omo re koduro
ki gbohun omo're ko ma ma tara je je je
Orunmila sare tete wa o
Elesin Oyan
Ojogiri lugbedu orun
seke okun Timi Agbale Ametutu soro
Enile ereke ti n'ri afopin eye
Erinmi nile Ado Erigi lode Owo Eesa ni Ideta
Omo enire omo enire omo enikan saaka bi Akun,

Ela moyin boru Ela moyin boye Ela mo yin bosise

IDINRETE:

Aboru aboye o

Ela ro wa Ela ro Ela ro wa
Orunmila ro wa
bi o ba nbe l'oko ki ode
Bi o ba nbe l'oja ki o bo
Bi o ba nbe ni Iwonran-Ola
ni bi Ojumo rere gbe n mo wa
Ki o ran wa dandan
Ere tete ni teku Agege
Ilakosinmoba ki gbouhun omo re koduro
ki gbohun omo're ko ma ma tara je je je
Orunmila sare tete wa o
Elesin Oyan
Ojogiri lugbedu orun
seke okun Timi Agbale Ametutu soro
Enile ereke ti n'ri afopin eye
Erinmi nile Ado Erigi lode Owo Eesa ni Ideta
Omo enire omo enire omo enikan saaka bi Akun,

Ela moyin boru Ela moyin boye Ela mo yin bosise
 

Chei, na wa for you Mr. Idin'leke. You are invoking Ifa on Nairaland. You want the pentecostals to come and lynch you. Anyway sha, Aboru, aboye to you.

Ela descend, Ela descend, Ela descend, Orunmila descend, Orunmila descend, Orunmila descend,
If you're at the farm come hither, if you are by the riverside come hither, If you are in Iwonran-Ola, come hither
A nursing mother does not hear the cry of her baby and remain standing
but runs hastily, gegege, like the rat of Agege.

This is a partial translation for those that don't understand.

tpia:

they're already being taught polygamy?

Here's what the King of Edu has to say on that subject.

Okan soso poro l'obinrin dun mo l'owo oko
One single wife is the sweetest for a husband
Bi nwon ba di meji
Nwon a dojowu
Bi nwon ba di meta
nwon a di eta ntu ile
Bi nwon ba di merin
Nwon a di iwo lo rin mi ni mo rin o
bi nwon ba di marun
Nwon a di lagbaja ni o run oko wa tan l'ohun susuusu
Bi nwon ba di mefa
Nwon a di ika

etc etc. this can be found in Oyeku meji.

Ela boru, Ela boye, Ela bosise

The husband of young maidens

Tpia, you are very observant. I am sure our forefathers understood the danger of marrying multiple women but they did it for pragmatic reasons, as opposed to emotional sense of security. The need to build a team for tilling the land, the need to control virtue by balancing the net availability of spinsters to the population of eligible grooms, the need to prevent destitution and fall in standard of living by marrying widows of war veterans, etc. . .

Pastor and Idinrete, thank you for your dpeth and knowledge of the Odus. There is a question I have asked many times and never found a satisfying answer for. I will like to know your opinion. The 16 Odus of Ifa. The combination of each odu is in discrete form of "ones" and "twos". Since each odu also contain many distinct verses, then an odu could be said to carry an array of discrete numbers "ones" and "twos". Mathematically, this can be represented as a number system in base 2. Number 16 itself is 2 ⁴. If any, what connection does this have with the binary numbers? I strongly believe that in addition to the mysteries in the Odu text, there are countless mysteries in the numer arrays as well.

Negro_Ntns:

Tpia, you are very observant. I am sure our forefathers understood the danger of marrying multiple women but they did it for pragmatic reasons, as opposed to emotional sense of security. The need to build a team for tilling the land, the need to control virtue by balancing the net availability of spinsters to the population of eligible grooms, the need to prevent destitution and fall in standard of living by marrying widows of war veterans, etc. . .

Pastor and Idinrete, thank you for your dpeth and knowledge of the Odus. There is a question I have asked many times and never found a satisfying answer for. I will like to know your opinion. The 16 Odus of Ifa. The combination of each odu is in discrete form of "ones" and "twos". Since each odu also contain many distinct verses, then an odu could be said to carry an array of discrete numbers "ones" and "twos". Mathematically, this can be represented as a number system in base 2. Number 16 itself is 2 ⁴. If any, what connection does this have with the binary numbers? I strongly believe that in addition to the mysteries in the Odu text, there are countless mysteries in the numer arrays as well.

While I'm not an initiate of Ifa I do love the tradition but I don't think you could hardly call what I know a knowledge of any depth. However I can do some research for you as to the numerical significance of what you are talking about. I think that your best bet though is to have a chat with some knowledgeable awos.

As regards the marrying of multiple wives, you really cannot rule out the fact that many of our men just can't keep their joysticks in their pants when they see a girl they like, whether they are already married or not. And that applies to Christians as well as traditionalists.

@Negro_Ntn

Are you based in Nigeria? If you are then I don't see how you have any problems doing more research.

Im outside of Nigeria, in US.

Of course the only way to eradicate polygamy is to make it expensive by taxing any man that has more than one wife and then hire women to enforce the tax rule. But then do not be surprised when you find that majority of the women enforcers are falling in love with married men with one or more wives. lol. "The forbidden fruit is forever appealing to mankind" Tpia, what do you say dear?

On the number mysteries, I believe it should be an academic research backed by a grant. An Ifa priest might understand the mystery but may not understand the formation of numbers well enough to make the connection of the binary base. The mathematician may not have understanding of the inner secrets in the number code even though the Ifa priest is willing to sketch their arrangement in the series. But I got your point. . . it is deeper than it appears on surface!

It is also possible that the binary nature of Ifa has nothing to do with any counting system but is rather a reference to the dual nature of sexual energy, namely Male and Female, and their various means of interaction.

Very true and Great way of looking at it too. In esoteric study duality or number two is a conduit for cosmic energy.

During the 80s in Kano, followers of maitatsine, a religious cult, were credited with certain powers. Those powers include the ability to suspend time, action and space; to accelerate kinetic motion; the leader, maitatsine himself was reputed to have power to disintegrate and re-integrate his body.

In like manner, Igunnu masquerade, in Lagos have similar ability to suspend time, action and space. This has been witnessed many times by people in audience.

In sci-fi movies, Westerners show that it is possible through physics to disintegrate and reintegrate a body. In fact it is commonly done in Nickoledeon with little children but I admit thats done with camera staging to make it appear like a "beaming" of the material body out of a location and its reappearance at a different and distant location within a snap of seconds. You know anything Oyinbo plays with it on his tv screen, he is already advanced in its study and has perfected its application.

@pastorAIO
I really admire your knowledge of our traditional belief system. Were can i get research materials from i am also interested in learning more about our traditions. I am resident in Lagos.

KunleOshob:

@pastorAIO
I really admire your knowledge of our traditional belief system. Were can i get research materials from i am also interested in learning more about our traditions. I am resident in Lagos.

It should not be difficult for you being in Lagos. There are certain books that would I recommend. Anything by Wande Abimbola. Who Will Mend Our Broken World is a good one. And Ohun Ijinle Enu Ifa. Ohun Ijinle has verses from each of the 16 major Odu.

Another good source for yoruba language and culture are books by Modupe Oduyoye, one of our top linguists in Nigeria. He is especially interesting because he studies the relationship of Yoruba language to it's religious concepts. A book I liked a lot was Yoruba Religious Discourse.

For more verses of Ifa I would also recommend a book by Ayo Salami called Ifa-A complete Divination. This has 2 verses from almost all the 256 odu of Ifa. Ifa has 16 main signatures which combine with each other in couples to make 256 combinations. When they combine with themselves they are called eji and these form the major odu. When they combine with others they are called omo Odu, minors, or Amulu.

For instance the first 4 odu are Ogbe, Oyeku, Iwori, and Odi. When Ogbe combines with itself you get the major odu Eji Ogbe. Likewise with Oyeku you get Oyeku meji, and then Iwori meji, and then Odi meji. When they combine with each other you get combinations such as Ogbe'yeku. Iwori s'ogbe. Ogbe'di. Odi oyeku.

There is also a signature called Irete. When Odi combines with Irete we get odus like Idinrete. Hence the name of our co nairalander. Idin Ileke O yi biri biri (waistbeads that twist round and round).

I'm sure that if you asked around you will have no problem finding awos in Lagos that will be happy to teach you, and you don't even have to be a practitioner. You might have to pay a little if you want formal lessons though. They have much knowledge of herbs and medicines too that are very useful. I've found that they are always very happy to discuss Ifa with outsiders.

Thanx, but which book shops can i get these books. I think it is important we have knowledge of our origins and the beliefs of our forefathers.

Pastor,

Thank for the information on those combinations. Is it possible for an Odu to stand alone without a combination? What are the posiible effects when taken individually, first as a stand alone and, then as a combination?

I don't want to pre-empt your response but intuitively, I will say the combination has to do with the duality of life force - the conduit path from Aye (physical) to Orun (meta physical) and back. In astrology this energy was represented by Gemini and ruled by planet mercury. Mercury was denoted the messenger of the gods or the path between the mortal and the immortal and in Gemini we see the symbolism of the duality of nature.

KunleOshob:

Thanx, but which book shops can i get these books. I think it is important we have knowledge of our origins and the beliefs of our forefathers.

I have a book at home that gives publishing credits to Es-Es communications Ventures, 14 Odusina Street, Papa Ajao Musihin, Lagos.

They also give their phone numbers as 08037200157, 0802 3327706, and 08025530655.
The book is called Ori-the Supreme Divinity and is written by Awo Ola-Ifa, Lanre Okemuyiwa. His contact is also in the book as 08037201644.

I don't know if you can actually buy the book there but as the publishers they should be able to direct you to the bookshop where you can buy the book. And I suspect that once you've found it that you'll find other books there too.

Negro_Ntns:

Pastor,

Thank for the information on those combinations. Is it possible for an Odu to stand alone without a combination? What are the posiible effects when taken individually, first as a stand alone and, then as a combination?

I don't want to pre-empt your response but intuitively, I will say the combination has to do with the duality of life force - the conduit path from Aye (physical) to Orun (meta physical) and back. In astrology this energy was represented by Gemini and ruled by planet mercury. Mercury was denoted the messenger of the gods or the path between the mortal and the immortal and in Gemini we see the symbolism of the duality of nature.

I have never heard of Odu standing alone. I too have been led to believe that the dual nature is due to the interaction between Orun and Aye. I don't know much about any connection with the zodiac sign of Gemini, but I know that Esu is very important as the messenger between this aye and Orun. I must add that Esu is not the Devil as understood in christianity. One of the first things that are stressed to people coming from a judaeo-christian/islam background is that Esu is Esu. Not Satan, not trickster, not whatever. Esu is simply Esu and is to be understood within the context of Yoruba religious cosmology, not by importing distorting cosmologies and defining him by them.

.

it is generally thot tht the yoruba s learnt divinity and the ways of ifa from orogonal inhabitants of wht is now yorubaland

.

tpia:



thanks.

there seem to be differing schools of thought on the origins of ifa.

One theory says it was the religion of the original inhabitants, later adopted or modified by Oduduwa.


Another says Oduduwa or one of his royal grandchildren introduced and legalized it in Yorubaland. An Oba (Ajaka) was dethroned for doing so. However, later on it became widespread and almost like the state religion.

_{Currently studying some aspects of African/Nigerian history.}

Atelewo la bala
A o meni to ko o

We met the inscriptions on the palms of our hands there
No one knows who wrote them. 

It can be argued that Ifa is worldwide.  In Yoruba land it is called Ifa.  In Igboland it is called Afa and is practiced by the Dibias.  Amongst the Fon and Ewe in Togo and Dahomey it is called Fa, or Afa.

All Vodu and Tro orders work hand in hand with Afa (or Fa) divination, a complex interpretive framework within which each person has a life sign (kpoli), of which there are a total of 256. Each sign is connected to a set of plants and animals, stories and songs, dietary taboos, Vodus, and dangers and strengths, all associated with each other, as though clan-related. Events, projects, activities, and relationships also have their own Afa signs. Everything in the universe is related to Afa texts and themes, as though nature itself were divided into exogamous clans.

  From here: http://www.everyculture.com/Africa-Middle-East/Ewe-and-Fon-Religion-and-Expressive-Culture.html

Also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifá

Then when you leave West Africa you can still find it in other parts of Africa.  For instance amongst the malagasy people it is called Sikidy.  http://www.serenapowers.com/sikidy.html

Then when you leave Africa completely you'll find that the Arabs practice something similar.  In nigeria we call the arabic divination Alfa divination and it is believed that it is so similar to Ifa because Orunmila actually went to mecca to teach them but they were not good students and that is why Alfa is not complete but a weak imitation of Ifa.  The Arabs actually call it Al Ram'l and I also heard arguments that it came with the moslems and that Orunmila is derived from Al-ram'l. 

The origins of geomancy are shrouded in mystery, but the first manuscripts describing the practice appear in the 9th century AD in the advanced Islamic civilization of the Middle East. From there it spread to Europe in the 11th and 12th centuries as part of the reception of many arts and sciences, including the occult arts of astrology, alchemy and magic by the rapidly civilizing West. Known in Arabic as ilm al-raml, literally the science or wisdom of the sand, geomancy became quite popular as a divinatory technique because of its ease of learning and use.

  From here: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/astrologicalgeomancy.html

Whether Al raml came first or Ifa came first what is clear is that Ifa is more intricate and sophisticated.  So Ifa is either a further development on Al raml or Al raml is a degenerate form of Ifa.  Al raml also spread into all of europe during the middle ages and it is simply known as geomancy in Europe.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy

The 16 Geomantic Figures


TOP


16 Geomantic Figures The basis of geomancy is the 16 geomantic figures, composed of 4 rows of either one or two points. Thus geomancy is similar to the Chinese divinatory system of the I Ching with its 64 hexagrams as well as Ifa divination with its 256 odu or parts, as each of these is a a binary system based on the powers of 2. In geomancy each figure has its own distinct meaning. The combinations and interactions of the geomantic figures for a particular question allows the geomancer to see the underlying pattern of a particular situation and thus to see the past and present as well as predict the future.
Each of the figures has a name and its own distinct personality. The combinations of the figures and their interactions are like a mirror reflecting the events or question that the geomancer has been asked about.
Here are the 16 Geomantic figures and their Latin and English names and their planetary rulerships.
Carcer, Prison, Saturn
Tristitia, Sadness, Saturn
Acquisitio, Gain, Jupiter
Laetitia, Joy, Jupiter
Puer, Boy, Mars
Rubeus, Red, Mars
Fortuna Major, Greater Fortune, Sun
Fortuna Minor, Lesser Fortune, Sun
Puella, Girl, Venus
Amissio, Loss, Venus
Conjunctio, Union, Mercury
Albus, White, Mercury
Via, Way, Moon
Populus, People, Moon

From here: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/astrologicalgeomancy.html#B

And it is spread even further all the way up to China and Japan where there are systems of geomancy too.  Although I am not sure that strictly speaking I Ching is geomancy.  there is a map of the spread of geomantic traditions around the world that can be found here: http://www.shikanda.net/general/gen3/virtuality_map/virt_fig_1.htm


I hope that this information is of use to tpia.  Good luck with your research into nigeria.

What I will like to know is WHEN will the people who KNOW, put this whole thing down in a SINGLE irreproachable, reference book similar to the Bible, or the Talmud, or the Sanksrit Texts, or the Koran?

And bequeath it with the same ''Holy'' tag lavished on the above?

WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY WAITING FOR?

Ifa teachings are more fundamental and in a sense, purer, than the above, which  - if you go back far enough - are diluted variants of African philosophies.

There must be a Committe set up by Ifa intellectuals, to codify Ifa Wisdoms into a single Text for all time.

It would be hard and almost unethical to write a book because it's  deliberately an oral tradition. Or maybe the reason why it's an oral tradition is because Yoruba has not always been a written language.

If Christianity and modernism did not end up coming to Africa, maybe there would be a natural and native writing system and  these things would get written. But every religion goes through a phase from oral recitations to been written and available to selected individuals and finally the written versions are made available to every one who wants it. This natural cycle has been broken already.

It can also be argued that the cycle isn't natural but a result of what's available at every point: When there's no writing system, teachings are orally transferred. When there's a writing system, few have the ability to write in the beginning and it's teachings are available to few. When. The writing system gets popular, teachings are widely available in their written forms.

To write or not to write?

A religion like Ifa is in dire need of a solid written text. It actually helps to confer respectability on it in this day and age, and will surely draw in more adherents. A lot of  the ignorance surrounding these African philosophical systems derives from their inacessibility.

ifa came from arab through oduduwa in pre islamic period

Ifa came for Arabs??

Is that some sort of joke?

Oduduwa certainly was no Arab even though he came from the Nile Valley. You may not realise it, but Egypt and the Nile Valley were originally centers of Black African civilization which practised a religion very similar to Ifa, for thousands of years up till the 7th century AD, when the region was invaded by Arab Jihadists, thus accounting for the present Arab populations in those regions, and the traditional history of many ''sub-Saharan'' groups of having migrated ''from the north'' in antiquity.

Greetings Brethren


I want To Thank all the posters at Ifa philosphy Thread for a work well done. I have learnt alot from this Thread. The Ifa Odu are similar to The Western Esoteric Runes.

The runes are alphabet of mysteries, founded by Odin. The runes are 24 in Number and can be use for Magic, Divination, Healing etc.

I am an upcoming magus in Benin City, Kindly pm me a Genuine Grand Master in Africa Traditional Religion (ATR) because most Babalawo i know of are fraudsters and Quacks, thats why i started practicing Western Mysticisms. My area of Interest is Spirits Summoning and Learning Magic feats (Miracles) but i have not Yet perfected This ancient Arts. I make use of GREATER KEY OF SOLOMON GRIMOIRE, 6TH,7TH,8TH,9TH,10TH BOOKS OF MOSES.


Thank You


Curiousmind

Pastor AIO, mo gbedi fun yin oooo. I dey trip for all dis ur knowledge oo. _{how u dey?}

Revealing

Ifa does not tell lies, lets embrace the truth.

La han mi ni bata nke lotu ife.
eyi tawi fun ogbon lo gbon n gbon, eyi tawi fo gba lo gba ngba
lol

ilosiwaju:

Pastor AIO, mo gbedi fun yin oooo. I dey trip for all dis your knowledge oo. _{how u dey?}

I dey kampe. Thanking God for the small small enjoyment that I get out of life.

KunleOshob:

@pastorAIO
I really admire your knowledge of our traditional belief system. Were can i get research materials from i am also interested in learning more about our traditions. I am resident in Lagos.

Hi Kunle, did you manage to get any materials on Ifa? How is the research coming along?

ROSSIKE:

What I will like to know is WHEN will the people who KNOW, put this whole thing down in a SINGLE irreproachable, reference book similar to the Bible, or the Talmud, or the Sanksrit Texts, or the Koran?

And bequeath it with the same ''Holy'' tag lavished on the above?

WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY WAITING FOR?

Ifa teachings are more fundamental and in a sense, purer, than the above, which  - if you go back far enough - are diluted variants of African philosophies.

There must be a Committe set up by Ifa intellectuals, to codify Ifa Wisdoms into a single Text for all time.

I think to make Ifa a 'religion of a book' would be missing a point and would in fact be contrary to the spirit of it. I think that the verses are fluid and undergo constant evolution and setting it down in the book would only stifle it. However certain verses are being conserved as artifacts of Human heritage. Which is a mighty honour, in my opinion. Egypt has the great pyramid, India has the taj Mahal, China has the great wall, Britain has Shakespeare, and Nigeria has Ifa. These are the things that we'll point at when we want to show the greatest achievements of humanity.

I just read the thread and learned from it as well.  I think, since Yorubas value discretion, Ifa practitioners may be adverse to codifying Ifa Divination in one "holy" book where it could be misinterpreted and easily accessible to the wrong people.  Just one reason that comes to mind.

I recently read several chapters of a history book written by a European in 1899 or thereabouts where he discusses Oduduwa at length, and lo and behold, the whole chapter he is referring to Oduduwa as a "she."  I did not get a chance to finish the book, so I cannot vouch for the entire thing. There may be more errors, but I learned some things and it appears to be well researched. Regarding the Oduduwa part, I couldn't figure out if the author was deliberately mislead because his interviewees resented his amebo-ness or something was lost in the translation.

I didn't get a chance to finish the book yet.  Here's a link if anyone is interested:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/yor/yor03.htm