Docs in the house.I hail una o!Please lets i.d ourselves.Whats happening?Where is it paying? .Are we stayin or leavin the country?Cos frankly,this country no regard us at all.So,your views and advice are most welcome.

BTW,naija docs abroad are also welcome.What is it like where u are?

Hey why so much talk abt pay? D country is certainly not treating everybody right bt does dat mean we shd all leave? Pls put d pay thing aside nd try to focus on d call nd u ll see d cash flow in. Yea, i dont mean u'll b rich. Its not all abt d money u know or were u taught otherwise in med sch?

No ones talkin about being rich,but at least comfortable.Lets face it.We are a miserable bunch just because wat we are seein now aint worth all those yrs in med school.Btw if it was just about answerin a call,i would have gone for priesthood.But then again i am talkin to a woman.My bad!

Lol, I really do get what u r saying. I understand ur pay rt now isn't commensurate wit all d med sch stress. Bt u sound lik u guyz r d only ppl affected. Its general u know. I'm a med lab sct nd i must say d pay isn't appetizing. But then we can keep hopin dat things ll get better here rather than joining ur colleagues abroad. Hope u aint thinkin u might hope 4 eva?

.

Chi,i understand wat u are saying but for how long?We in the medic. Profession do not stick together and fight for wat we want.It aint easy abroad but at least they are paid well.Maybe we should just privatise healthcare.

Phantom, i really agree privatizatn is a very nice idea bt i sense it might not favour fresh grads nd d practice might loose its vision nd become sorely a profit thing. I think d fight hv to continue, NMA need to step up its game. Yea, i agree its taking time bt u ll agree wit me u guyz r better paid now than wht it used to be. There is hope.

the pay is not really much except u work for the state or u doing residency. if u can afford u can do a masters in states its profitable when u come back. or if u have the power u can go for usmle.its stressfull but if u pass well u are made.
i for one cannot and will not work for private hospital cos the pay isnot worth it

My dia if u have yr way out legally and can work legally i beg dont hesitate those guys are well paid abroad, they are really well taken care of beliv me. gudlk

wakagirl:

My dia if u have yr way out legally and can work legally i beg dont hesitate those guys are well paid abroad, they are really well taken care of beliv me. gudlk

Haven't you heard of med professionals working in supermarket in UK? its no longer easy as it use to be b4.

Well,i guess there are challenge everywhere!i work in Dublin but moving to Uk soon cos i completed my training here.Due to recession,salaries have been reduced in Ireland .however due to shortage of doctors in Uk,the pay is good.If u can study for USMLE,the states is very good after the residency.I know its very tough in naija,moreso if u can relocate the exposure is better.

olabukola:

Haven't you heard of med professionals working in supermarket in UK? its no longer easy as it use to be b4.

By med professionals, are you also referring to MD's. I find this hard to believe.

i believe any doctor working in Uk supermarket has not passed the GMC exams.there is a huge demand for docs in Uk at the moment

@sleekmc, Writin usmle is not the problem but are u certain of a visa to go write step2cs?What is probability of being matched after usmle and of course u most likely wont get specialty of choice except its internal med.

As for the pay in the us,i know they are paid bastardly(pardon the expression )wit the lowest reported pay for the least specialty at about 20mill/yr, in naira as a consultant though, But remember,the more u earn,the more ur taxes.@fostermd, Those people prob. too much wit their policies changin like their weather, Meanwhile i hear say their exam hard well well

As for the pay in the us,i know they are paid bastardly(pardon the expression )wit the lowest reported pay for the least specialty at about 20mill/yr, in naira as a consultant though, But remember,the more u earn,the more ur taxes.@fostermd, Those people prob. too much wit their policies changin like their weather, Meanwhile i hear say their exam hard well well

The only doctors working in the 'supermarkets', if any are those who have not passed their PLAB exams.
There is a shortage of Doctors in the UK currently, but only for those who are willing to work in non-training roles i.e. jobs that don't lead anywhere.

In the last 2-3 years there's been a complete overhaul of the postgraduate training for Doctors here and this has affected mostly the overseas Doctors. So anybody thinking of further training in the UK should forget it for now. You can still do courses and even get postgraduate qualifications like the MpH or MSc in whatever tickles your fancy and target  jobs with the United Nations http://unjobs.org/organizations/who.

For anybody who is interested in further training, US is one of the few places remaining overseas. You do have to muster the resources for the USMLE, but it's not impossible. Nigerians are passing the exam in their hoardes!

There are still occasional opportunities in the Caribbeans. I know that Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Barbados has quite a few Nigerians doing there residency there. You will need to contact which ever Caribbean countries embassy you're interested in and ask about the contact details for whoever you need to correspond with for jobs in their country.

Down South in South Africa, Namibia and Botswana there may be opportunities for work, but not for residency.

beneli:

The only doctors working in the 'supermarkets', if any are those who have not passed their PLAB exams.
There is a shortage of Doctors in the UK currently, but only for those who are willing to work in non-training roles i.e. jobs that don't lead anywhere.

In the last 2-3 years there's been a complete overhaul of the postgraduate training for Doctors here and this has affected mostly the overseas Doctors. So anybody thinking of further training in the UK should forget it for now. You can still do courses and even get postgraduate qualifications like the MpH or MSc in whatever tickles your fancy and target jobs with the United Nations http://unjobs.org/organizations/who.

For anybody who is interested in further training, US is one of the few places remaining overseas. You do have to muster the resources for the USMLE, but it's not impossible. Nigerians are passing the exam in their hoardes!

There are still occasional opportunities in the Caribbeans. I know that Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Barbados has quite a few Nigerians doing there residency there. You will need to contact which ever Caribbean countries embassy you're interested in and ask about the contact details for whoever you need to correspond with for jobs in their country.

Down South in South Africa, Namibia and Botswana there may be opportunities for work, but not for residency.

Spot on bro'. You got it all right. My younger brother is in SA and has been facing this kind of discrimination as in, its difficult for foreigners to actually get to do their residency in that place. I hear the only residency they are allowed to do is in Family Medicine as opposed to 'juicy' areas like Neuro, OandG, Surgery, etc.

What he wants to do now is what you suggested. He has done an MSc and is going on to pursue a PhD. He intends to end up being an 'academic' doctor where he becomes a researcher/lecturer. Later on, he says that he may return to do his residency, that is if he is still interested. The funny thing though, is that whatever direction you go in Medicine - whether to become a consultant/specialist, or Lecturer/researcher, they (Doctors) always get to make their money.

Not trying to digress here but when will the pay of doctors become commensurate with the degree of stress that the job entails; forget all the bullshit about medicine is a humanitarian course.

In my view, it would take a very long time cos if doctors in nigeria want higher pay, the money has to come from somewhere and that cost would most likely be borne by the patients, US pays doctors very well and that's one of the MANY reasons why the US has one of the highest healthcare costs anywhere in the world. The masses in Nigeria ain't ready for that.

I bought The Guardian newspapers last week or so (can't really recall) and there was this advertisement placed by UCH for various positions including consultant opthalmologist and cardiothoracic surgeon and i remember seeing a salary scale of CONTISS 13 (1.4-1.9m annually). I was like WAT D f@#k?

I can't help but bring in something I saw on another thread on salary paid by telecoms companies,

******************************************************************************************************
Entry Level: Generally these are call center agents. But can apply anywhere in the company.
MTN: ~2.5-3m
Zain: ~1.5-2m
Glo: ~2.5m
etisalat: 900k

Specialist:
MTN: 3.5-4.5m
Zain: 3m-4m
Glo: Not specified, can be anything.
etisalat: 3-5m

Manager:
MTN: 10m, car and other benefits can take it all the way to 12-14m.
Zain: This is tricky. Zain just killed their organogram, so there's no manager on the same hierarchial level as other telcos. But this is around 9-13.5m inclusive of everything
Glo: Not specified, can be anything. In fact there is no hierarchial structure in Glo. But managers can get anything between 6m and 25m.
etisalat: 8-14m. no car, and exclusive of medical.

Senior Manager:
MTN: 15-25m inclusive of car and medical.
Zain: 14m-20m, inclusive of car,exclusive of medical. I believe this is the level now referred to as 'manager' in zain.
Glo: Nothing like Senior Manager in Glo. Just like Manager.
etisalat: 14-21m. No car, and exclusive of medical.

Director/GM/CxO:
This one is across board. Can be anything from 25m to 50m depending on experience, negotiation skills, etc.
****************************************************************************************************************

These figures may not be exact but they are sure close to the reality and this isn't only in the telecoms sector. Aviation, Oil and Gas/Energy pay well but medicine is a different ball game.

For God sakes, it takes almost a decade of postgraduate residency to become a cardiothoracic surgeon.

I have a brother who flies with Bristow Heli (NG) Operations and he earns much more than a so-called consultant. And he's only been flying for so long. So I ask myself all the time, why go through all the stress and years of residency when I can put my talent to better use in corporate Nigeria - to the benefit of  the company and myself?

I am not given to all this whining. I am already fed up as it is.

Globally, market forces determine what every one earns.
If you think you are not getting your due, move to those other sectors where you think the pay is adequate. Or to those countries where you think you will get what you deserve. Here in Nigeria, there are doctors working as managers in several of the telecommunications companies and even oil companies, some of them doing non-medical/non-clinical jobs.

When you talk about the stress in medical school, have you studied other courses to compare their own level of stress? What gave you the idea that medicine is the most stressful course ever?

So quit whining and get the skills the world is looking for.

Pls dis topic should be discussed at the national assemble level and not this forum site, because if u like kill your selves here, you will also be put on the ground her,(burial). not only the doctors that ar not be treated fine, the police, the teachers, the markter, (hawkers) even the transport (taxi, bus drivers, Okada) so if every body should start saying things like the doctors then the country will nt be in peace.

i knw drs are special people they deserved to be treated well, but still understand that they are not better than the PHCN workers, neither are they better than IT GUYS, wat have u,

SO i still stand on my advise that doctors should send this discussion to the national assemble. and lets hear it on TV and radio stations.


thx

LifeBoy (aka UWEM)

@Epiphany
You are right. Once a Doctor is able to specialise, then only he can put a cap on how much he earns. The secret is in being creative with your skills. One of my senior colleagues that i look up to here, has an agent for crying out loud! When he's not working in the NHS, he spends his time on his yacht of the coast of the Caribbeans creating health-related products (books, scripts etc) to sell.

The thing is to become an authority in whatever subspecialty we choose and not limit ourselves to seeking employment from the government! With the MBBS, the choices and scope is a lot more limited.

@FSB
To be honest with you, i had asked myself the same questions you've posed about why one should bother to spend all those years in further training, when you could earn a lot more in the corporate world. But what to do? Once you're in, you're in and have to make the best of what you have. And that's where a forum like this, where we can share information comes in.

The reality is that in Nigeria the Medical Doctor is in dire straits.
There is no organised health system, no clear pathways of accessing healthcare, no proper quality regulatory body, no agenda for development ad nauseatum! And as long as the situation remains the way it is, there's no way that Doctors employed by the government can expect to earn anything remotely comparable to what people earn in better organised societies.

In the UK an NHS Consultant earns between £70-90,000 per annum before tax. In the employed private sector you can earn up to £150.000. If you know what you're doing and decide to go independent you can earn up to £240,000. So it's really those who know what they're doing who achieve a bit of financial security. I am aware that some of my friends in the US earn up to $300,000 as Attendants (Consultants) there. What you earn depends on what you can do.

The gist of what i am saying is that once somebody is ensnared in the becoming a Nigerian Doctor thing, then the person should aim to specialise with a view to creating their own wealth. Where you get specialised depends on the resources available to you. But strive to do so. Once you've done so, then put your creative talent to use and strategise to make wealth for yourself. That's my advice.

Being dependent on government employment or employment by somebody else is in effect resigning oneself to mediocrity and penury. period.

na wa oo. Why am I in 5th yr before knowing all these. Well,itz just the citizens i pity,when the brain drain starts worsening and when doctors start taking jobs in the corporate world. There will be increase in mortality and morbidity rate for sure if this low pay continues. Nigeria already has the highest maternal mortality rate in the world by the WHO. And maybe Life expectancy wil be cut down to 30yrs old. Gudluck, Nigerians!!

Zerocool,
If you are in medical practice for the money, then you have missed your way.
And while Nigeria's Maternal Mortiality Rate is poor indeed, it is not the worst by an stretch of imagination. Double check your facts

@Kabikala
Don't kid yourself. A lot of people go into 'professions' whether medical, legal or whatever for financial security (spelt MONEY). So, let's cut the balderash (no insult intended).

About the brain drain thing. Highly skilled professionals will always move around until they get to the place that they want to be. That's what drives them to rise above the average. So there's nothing that can be done about that.

However, if the people involved with our health policies focused on giving us a health system then half of the problem will be solved. I have said this in different posts: there needs to be clarity about the pathways of accessing health care. There needs to be clarity about what constitutes primary, secondary and tertiary care. There needs to be clarity about the health insurance thing, it's scope and coverage. With that the private sector will begin to be more clear about it's role.  Things should not be done haphazardly.

With a bit more clarity, people and organisations will come in to fill in the gaps and Doctors with skills will be able to carve out clear niches for themselves. That's the way things work.

I understand the points a lot of guys have advanced on this thread. many have attempted to sound saintly, projecting the humanitarian dimension of the now "professed" noble profession of medicine , some were more candid enough to look at things from the vintage of the current economic realities. and some only wrote from the standpoint of entrenched traditional "beef" for medical doctors- "Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing".  the common denominator here is that an average nigerian doctor is not happy. if a man is not happy it affect his attitude,his habits ,his character and ultimately the altitude of his destiny. the cabals that call themselves "elders" in this profession-parading their grey hairs and overbearing personalities in the tertiary hospital wards, clinics ,theaters of  many reputable hospitals in the country, examining students with imperial terrors at undergraduate and postgraduate levels, have done nothing but disappointed the younger generation by failing to fight- like the Nigerian Bar Asssociation and other professional bodies- for what really matters. many of them are renowned professors but thier success is inconsequential without successors.Do you guys remember what Professor Akinkugbe of U.C.H. said about House Officers' Salary? Awon Agba Niyen O? may God save us from the noxious consequencies of the irresponsibilties of such a generation of leaders

@ Beneli
Not yet time to cut the balderdash (no insult intended).
I am not implying that it is wrong to go into a profession for the financial rewards it may offer.
I am only saying in present day Nigeria, if you decide to go into medical practice because you think you might get rich, you will be sorely disappointed.

@kabikala

if doctors hadn't told u their pay structure in forums like this, maybe as a parent ur son or daughter would have studied medicine, become a doctor and then,u know how painful it is,when they are financially struggling. After paying so much for tuition and long number of years spent in med school.

*** i'm not a parent,, just saying.

While many (Beneli and Kabikala) have valid arguements, there is another way to look at this - I was discussing with a friend of mine yesterday and we both concluded that the CULTURE back at home, i.e. in Nigeria has in a way, 'deceived' a lot of people. Many people read certain courses in school, not because they like them, but because in Nigeria, if you are not a doctor or an engineer or a lawyer or a banker etc, you are not considered to be anything. Is it not possible that a lot of people who read medicine did it because of their parents (some, who may be doctors?). Is it not possible also that some read medicine because in their GCE exams, they made all A1's, were considered brilliant, hence the next best course to apply for is MEDICINE?

I think later on in life, especially when people graduate and enter the real world, they begin to realise that they have some 'gifts' which they cant ignore and regardless of pay, social status and other variables they eventually take up these gifts. Some who are musically gifted turn to music (e.g. Dr Sid, who sings alongside DBanj and co is a qualified Dentist and a registered member of NMA. After going through a hard 6 years of Dentistry in Univ of Ibadan, his housejob and NYSC, he came out and turned to music). I know other doctors who are pilots and Investment bankers, who said that reading medicine was to satisfy their parents.

Those that go into medicine because of money and do not have the 'calling' to be doctors may eventually find out that they are more useful elsewhere and may tend to switch to those routes. Some however do not switch to those other routes but manage to practice their medicine alongside these talents that they have e.g. Robin Cook - the famous author of Medical Thrillers (although a consultant doctor in one of US's top medical schools, he is an international award winning author).  Bukola Saraki, a medical doctor (never practiced his medicine) was a banker, a business man and now a politician. Mimiko, also a politician, practiced medicine for a while etc etc.

Finally, whether people go into medicine for the money or not, i do recognize that our country has NO FUTURE and prospects for Doctors. How and where will they train? Where are the facilities for research and development? And of course, where are the 'reward' schemes for them?

Like Beneli said, Highly skilled professionals (Doctors) will always move around until they get to the place that they want to be whether it is as a Doctor or not, or within Nigeria or outside.

@epiphany, @olufunmibe

well said. you hit the nail on the head!

@epiphany, God bless you, You've said it all, Meanwhile methinks i should go do data base mgt and networkin at niit.My heart lies there