macof:

The question now is - sent for from where? I would even add why?
You can't just come and conjure your imagination and say because history doesn't deal with absolutes therefore you keep claiming the same thing that doesn't add up. At least make the narrative have substance so we can know what leads to follow

And I really don't mean this disrespectfully but Benin has never been a mighty empire... A strong and wealthy kingdom with some imperial significance yes but when we line up MIGHTY Empires, we shouldn't be throwing Benin in there so as not to make African history seem disjointed and disorderly.
For context it's like talking about European history and saying Prussia was a mighty empire...no!

I really can't argue against itsekiri ever being part of the Benin empire.. As I said if this was ever the case, it would have been early on around that 15th - 16th century .. Because much later the Portuguese and British clearly deal with Warri as an independent kingdom
For a while Warri was West Africa's Kongo in the sense of how much influence Portugal had on the kingdom, you can't compare that relationship with Esan or Bini. If Portuguese people were like you they would be claiming Itsekiri were under Portugal

Benin wasn't a mighty empire in africa by macof

Please show me, list of mighty empires in africa

UGBE634:
See you guys argue vindictively out here, your attempt to prove a point made you made that comment that Benin was not an empire at least not one that's mighty to you, you know you can only argue on that basics,that if Benin was not an empire then warri ran as an independent entity. these are some of the reasons why west Africa history is chequered, ego and pride. God knows I wouldn't have responded to him if he had not said warri was NEVER under Benin and you know this is an outright lie. if at all it happened that way you know the strongest years of Benin was still around that 15th and 16th century. under ewuakpe in the 18th century, the empire and the economic fortunes began to dwindle. No body is trying to subdue any group. An itsekiri man is an equal anytime any day if he knows his worth. humanity cut it for me more than anything else. when it comes to marriage and trade with the Portuguese, the reality on ground does not support your argument, UROMI has some of the most European-like features than anywhere else in Nigeria

Egypt in all its grandeur is not known as a mighty empire.. Only the New Kingdom era is sometimes called the Egyptian empire, because this was the limited period Egypt was a mighty empire. And you think the term "empire" is just given anyhow because you conquered some few neighbouring villages and towns Lol

The problem is many of you don't know how to differentiate a mighty empire from a strong kingdom with little imperial significance

I do you a lot of service to be that honest. Nobody in the academic field prefers to refer to Benin as an "empire" over "kingdom". If you are calling Benin a mighty empire I wonder what we would call Songhai or Kanem or Abbysinia or Mali.. Or Rome or the Mongol empire or British empire or Russia before the revolution?

It's not everything you call mighty empire abeg

And I'm not arguing with you that Benin's peak was around the 15th - 16th century
But itsekiri have either always been independent or got independence very early

UGBE634:
Young Man you should know history is not sentiment, warri was a part and parcel of the Benin empire. your king is being refered to as ogiame-literally translate to king of water, the riverine kingdom in the empire,the name ogie in Benin loosely refered to as Duke under the Benin king who is the Oba. warri was a part and parcel of the Benin kingdom. The itsekiris were not the only ones who got married to the Portuguese, even the Benins and the Esans did too under the supervision and the tutelage of the Benin king. The Benins were never riverine people, so the itsekiris who were always refered to as jekri traders or the middlemen always come in handy here. I for one would think they were even sent by the oba of Benin to help administer trade and bring these people the Portuguese in this case to the hinterland and the palace of the oba of benin. I believe that's how they got to their present location as they are now isolated from their yoruboid brothers. they were not always around I believe they were sent for. you coming to say this is not enough and does not change the fact of history. warri was always an integral part of the Benin empire and is still under Benin traditionally. If them leave una now una go say na Ife he come from God pass una e come carry the name ogiame put for body

guy I am telling u history and u are refuting it with ur assumption, u should go n read on the history of itsekiri by William Moore or JOS Ayomike b4 having this argument.

macof:

so the itsekiri - a coastal people - had interactions with the Portuguese.. Oh wow what a surprise...
It's ridiculous that you would think a coastal people having contact with the Portuguese means the Portuguese were exploring and mapping out the hinterlands

Also the records of intermarriage between itsekiri and Portuguese were by itsekiri nobles, mostly princes who had gone to Portugal or other Portuguese colonies. Not by Portuguese settlers



im not expecting fools to take knowledge seriously. I'm not here to engage in one senseless back and forth
It's left for you to take those names and dates in the screenshot or provide information on any European explorer or cartographer who ventured into the hinterlands to map out territorial boundaries

This is basically common knowledge that Europeans were afraid of malaria until chloroquine was invented. So if you are looking for someone to entertain you, go find that person elsewhere

OK resolve to insult when u don't have anything reasonable to say.
Chloroquine that was invented 1940 when Europeans had already colonize most of Africa.
U could have easily sited ur source if u wanted to be taking serious

Nairalandmonika:

OK resolve to insult when u don't have anything reasonable to say.
Chloroquine that was invented 1940 when Europeans had already colonize most of Africa.
U could have easily sited ur source if u wanted to be taking serious

I meant to say quinine.

And you are just being ridiculous. I have left names and dates that's what's called references if that is not sufficient for you to start doing your own research then you have no business in this topic, you are just looking for whose time to waste. You who wants to argue I don't see you attempting to answer my question and provide information on European explorers and cartographers who observed the hinterlands as early as you claim

Nairalandmonika:

guy I am telling u history and u are refuting it with ur assumption, u should go n read on the history of itsekiri by William Moore or JOS Ayomike b4 having this argument.

Guy I would want you to read up the connection between the OSULAS AND THE AIWERIOGHENE family with the itsekiris and why the ologbosere fought to protect the sanity and sanctity of the Benin empire and of which he was later tried and eliminated by the British alongside with other chiefs in 1899. warri was wealthy at some point wealthier than Benin and Uromi but she was a sacrosanct part of the empire even up till the fall of it. UROMI fought wars of independence with Benin even agbor fought wars of independence with Benin but not warri and you expect me to take you serious. There was an esan army an esan outposts but I have not heard or read any of a warri outposts

macof:


Egypt in all its grandeur is not known as a mighty empire.. Only the New Kingdom era is sometimes called the Egyptian empire, because this was the limited period Egypt was a mighty empire. And you think the term "empire" is just given anyhow because you conquered some few neighbouring villages and towns Lol

The problem is many of you don't know how to differentiate a mighty empire from a strong kingdom with little imperial significance

I do you a lot of service to be that honest. Nobody in the academic field prefers to refer to Benin as an "empire" over "kingdom". If you are calling Benin a mighty empire I wonder what we would call Songhai or Kanem or Abbysinia or Mali.. Or Rome or the Mongol empire or British empire or Russia before the revolution?

It's not everything you call mighty empire abeg

And I'm not arguing with you that Benin's peak was around the 15th - 16th century
But itsekiri have either always been independent or got independence very early

Now i see youre Bling or you just have some blindness towards the thought of we edos


You mentioned kanem borno Songhia as empire but failed to recognized benin as empire... Lol
Tell me why you classify those twp up there as empire and noy benin... Before i will begin to take you serious

Again itsekiri were undee the benin empire and were never independent from Edo as they constantly pay homage duly till the empire was put to an halt

UGBE634:
Guy I would want you to read up the connection between the OSULAS AND THE AIWERIOGHENE family with the itsekiris and why the ologbosere fought to protect the sanity and sanctity of the Benin empire and of which he was later tried and eliminated by the British alongside with other chiefs in 1899. warri was wealthy at some point wealthier than Benin and Uromi but she was a sacrosanct part of the empire even up till the fall of it. UROMI fought wars of independence with Benin even agbor fought wars of independence with Benin but not warri and you expect me to take you serious. There was an esan army an esan outposts but I have not heard or read any of a warri outposts

u be really mumu, so u have not head of the war nana of itsekiri fought with the Britain. reading all ur post u just sound so ignorant. U are talking from a Benin point of view without even reading the history of iwerri (warri).

U just dey shout ologboshere up n down. Warri ologboshere is different from Benin ologboshere. Warri has all Chief Benin has. From iyasere to ologboshere, u just name them.

The kingdom was form some 500 yrs ago when immigrant from ile ife living in the coastal region adopted a Benin prince to be their king.

The prince did something which Benin people said was against their custom. the king nuwa, knowing thay people are not happy with his son (ginuwa), sent him to form his own kingdom outside the Benin kingdom. The king took the first soon of all his chiefs to accompany his son.
After travelling through the Benin rivers for days. The prince n his entourage met with these settlers who had their origin from ile ife. As soon as they saw him jumping out of the boat, they knew he was royalty n they adopted him as their king.

They together (the Benin prince, the first son of all Benin chief, the settlers from ile ife) form the tribe itsekiri and called their land the iwerri land.

Which is what we call warri today, never at a time has warri being under Benin kingdom.

In itsekiri, the King belong to the people n the people belong to the king. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I repeat read history of itsekiri by JOS Ayomike b4 engaging in this argument.

gregyboy:




Now i see youre Bling or you just have some blindness towards the thought of we edos


You mentioned kanem borno Songhia as empire but failed to recognized benin as empire... Lol
Tell me why you classify those twp up there as empire and noy benin... Before i will begin to take you serious

Again itsekiri were undee the benin empire and were never independent from Edo as they constantly pay homage duly till the empire was put to an halt

Which dirty homage

Nairalandmonika:

Which dirty homage

Who b dis, you from ogun state what do you know about itsekiris

Nairalandmonika:

u be really mumu, so u have not head of the war nana of itsekiri fought with the Britain. reading all ur post u just sound so ignorant. U are talking from a Benin point of view without even reading the history of iwerri (warri).

U just dey shout ologboshere up n down. Warri ologboshere is different from Benin ologboshere. Warri has all Chief Benin has. From iyasere to ologboshere, u just name them.

The kingdom was form some 500 yrs ago when immigrant from ile ife living in the coastal region adopted a Benin prince to be their king.

The prince did something which Benin people said was against their custom. the king nuwa, knowing thay people are not happy with his son (ginuwa), sent him to form his own kingdom outside the Benin kingdom. The king took the first soon of all his chiefs to accompany his son.
After travelling through the Benin rivers for days. The prince n his entourage met with these settlers who had their origin from ile ife. As soon as they saw him jumping out of the boat, they knew he was royalty n they adopted him as their king.

They together (the Benin prince, the first son of all Benin chief, the settlers from ile ife) form the tribe itsekiri and called their land the iwerri land.

Which is what we call warri today, never at a time has warri being under Benin kingdom.

In itsekiri, the King belong to the people n the people belong to the king. It's a symbiotic relationship.

I repeat read history of itsekiri by JOS Ayomike b4 engaging in this argument.

He is of itsekiri origin you idiot just like the iyase was from anioma ancestry, they were seen as part of the empire and country therefore men who distinguished their selves were selected from all areas,my major talking points is not on the Nana whose seat was political my major point was pre British era did you read about any Benin warri war like the Benin agbor war, the Benin Uromi war, the Benin akure war, was there a warri military outpost prebritish era, you know nothing Jon snow. if at all there was one in warri, it was seen as a sub part of the Benin stool, even mothers of the different obas were gotten from other areas to ensure their loyalty to the stool. Ologbosere was distinguished and was brought in from that axis. Benin was a country and a smartly ran one at that

gregyboy:



Who b dis, you from ogun state what do you know about itsekiris

Mumu you from kaduna what do u know about warri or Benin, u just open ur dirty mouth to talk rubbish.

UGBE634:
He is of itsekiri origin you idiot just like the iyase was from anioma ancestry, they were seen as part of the empire and country therefore men who distinguished their selves were selected from all areas,my major talking points is not on the Nana whose seat was political my major point was pre British era did you read about any Benin warri war like the Benin agbor war, the Benin Uromi war, the Benin akure war, was there a warri military outpost prebritish era, you know nothing Jon snow. if at all there was one in warri, it was seen as a sub part of the Benin stool, even mothers of the different obas were gotten from other areas to ensure their loyalty to the stool. Ologbosere was distinguished and was brought in from that axis. Benin was a country and a smartly ran one at that

See as u are confusing urself, so in ur claim uromi is not part of the Benin kingdom but warri is?
Are u serious?
Warri is pretty young when u compare it to the Benin kingdom but that doesn't mean it was under the Benin kingdom.
The fact that there was no war between the itsekiris and Benin doesn't mean they were under the Benin kingdom.

Nairalandmonika:

Mumu you from kaduna what do u know about warri or Benin, u just open ur dirty mouth to talk rubbish.

Ozwor am a cofirm edo benin boy, so you imposter Bleep off the thread

Nairalandmonika:

See as u are confusing urself, so in ur claim uromi is not part of the Benin kingdom but warri is?
Are u serious?
Warri is pretty young when u compare it to the Benin kingdom but that doesn't mean it was under the Benin kingdom.
The fact that there was no war between the itsekiris and Benin doesn't mean they were under the Benin kingdom.

What I meant was that they fought a war at all. and it was an economic war of independence not a political war. it was a war between onojie agba and oba ozolua where it was recounted that oba ozolua lost his life in that war. Even akure rebeled at some point which cost the deji of akure his life in the early 19th hundred and even at that she was a vassal up till 1914. what I am trying to sell to you is that it is easier to sell me an Uromi independence which you can't even sell me as she was an integral part of the country because of the strategy employed by the ruling class in the country to ensure loyalty of all vassal state in the country. most oba mothers came from esan then itsekiri, there were so many chiefs from different part of the country to ensure oneness of the country. You can't remove the itsekiris from the Benin country. Go and read up on the policy of the oba in monopolizing trade in the Benin country and how it affected the Europeans who sought to remove him in order to control trade in the country

UGBE634:
What I meant was that they fought a war at all. and it was an economic war of independence not a political war. it was a war between onojie agba and oba ozolua where it was recounted that oba ozolua lost his life in that war. Even akure rebeled at some point which cost the deji of akure his life in the early 19th hundred and even at that she was a vassal up till 1914. what I am trying to sell to you is that it is easier to sell me an Uromi independence which you can't even sell me as she was an integral part of the country because of the strategy employed by the ruling class in the country to ensure loyalty of all vassal state in the country. most oba mothers came from esan then itsekiri, there were so many chiefs from different part of the country to ensure oneness of the country. You can't remove the itsekiris from the Benin country. Go and read up on the policy of the oba in monopolizing trade in the Benin country and how it affected the Europeans who sought to remove him in order to control trade in the country

You seem so adamant, u refuse to understand what I'm saying.
Can u tell me the history of itsekiri?
Have u even read the history of itsekiri?

Nairalandmonika:

You seem so adamant, u refuse to understand what I'm saying.
Can u tell me the history of itsekiri?
Have u even read the history of itsekiri?

I understand what you are saying, what I am trying to tell you is that economically maybe she was free just like every other but politically it was not because of the strategy carried out by the Benin elite whereby all part saw themselves as part of the empire and country and with this fought for the soul and sanctity of the empire. They were free in a sense yet again they were also not free. Benin was a country and one so smartly ran. The ologbosere lost his life, the iyase who was from the anioma region and was the go-between, between Benins and the British was asked to assume the mantle of office by the British and he retorted the direct primogeniture system in Benin. such undiluted loyalty! And for seventeen years the stool was vacant until ovonranwmen died in 1914. Also after conquering Benin the Europeans thought to themselves that they should conquer Esan also lest a reinforcement comes from that side. What is a country to you, just like Nigeria today where states have strong degree of freedom and members from each state are part of the federal council too. so Benin was with members from different regions. why will members be selected from the different groups unlike as it is today where it is now a kingdom, why was most of the mothers of the Obas from the Esan region where the warriors for major part of the years of the empire come from, places like EWOHIMI, OHORDUA AND UROMI then itsekiri. You think it was sheer coincidence,there were agreement made which you oblivious of certainly! until you understand these things you will understand what I am telling you then you will understand definitely that even if you argue that it was free economically as vassals normally are but with some expectations of tributary gift annually. but there are bigger operations that are yet not open to us and unarguably these regions were tied to the bigger country Benin by the undeniable facts on ground. Until you understand Benin history properly then you will understand that the men that ran the country were not mean men and were men that deeply understood governance and politics at an advanced level. the oba made a decree and it affected the British and their trade with the itsekiris and urhobos that they sought to remove him as the only hegemon and overlord in the region and you want to tell me otherwise. READ UP BENIN EMPIRE AND HER RELATIONS WITH NEIGHBOURING GROUPS UP TILL 1900 THEN YOU WILL UNDERSTAND BETTER,READ UP ANY SOURCE YOU CAN FIND READ VORACIOUSLY. warri was NEVER free not in the true sense of freedom. the trade of warri with the Portuguese only empowered the elite which were loyal to Benin country

The Ascension to the throne of Olu is governed by laws, Tsola's Ascension goes against those laws. It is that simple. A clear case for the courts or even the state government.
Only the Olu can suspend the Ologbotsere, so people "suspending" him without any authority to do such are fools.
The continued agression from the Oni of IFA who falsely claims to be a peace maker will soon be answered. Itsikeri, Ife is trying to appropriate your throne.

Truthshotcrazy:

The question is what class of Mathematician.?
You might as well be a slow poke second class lower or third class or even pass mathematician. Claiming false laurels in a faceless forum. Even being a first class mathematician or first class Physics graduate does not in any way establish you as an authority in Nigerian history,its people & culture. Unless history or similar fields like GST,Political studies and the likes is your field of specialisation with enough publications,& awards to back it up
Anybody can come to the internet to claim anything.Everybody is professor of Mathematics and professor of History online
Drop a link to your LinkedIn profile & publications in accredited journals so that we can access you better and know what pedigree of classless human we are dealing with in a faceless forum

I didn't create a nairaland account to impress or entertain you nor did I do so to get your approval, on the other hand you named yourself after me.
I am certainly not going to play your game, no matter the amount of harassment you do.

Truthshots2:


I didn't create a nairaland account to impress or entertain you nor did I do so to get your approval, on the other hand you named yourself after me.
I am certainly not going to play your game, no matter the amount of harassment you do.

‘Truthshotcrazy’ has always been my official nickname even suffixed on Twitter,Facebook names & my defunct nairaland profile.Besides,you do not own legal copyrights to any bloody name.Neither did l join nairaland for any all over the place faceless jobless history and GST professor wanna be without pedigree & accredited publications in reputable journals,to choke down baseless facts all because of a third class or inconsequential second class lower mathematics degree.Not like you are an authority in mathematics or even recognized in your so called mathematics field either.The general public should beware of your quack crook half baked degrees including mathematics if at all you really have one.

Truthshots2:

••• The continued agression from the Oni of IFA •••

Listen up baldy, there is NO such thing as ‘Ooni of IFA’.

Your spelling of IFE as IFA is perhaps due to an error on your part, or due to your suffering from dyslexia.

However, if this was a deliberate spelling, then do make sure to substantiate your spelling with some evidence.

Note that whatever so-called evidence you adduce must be verifiable and not something spurious.

Cheers

Cc: nisai, gomojam

The earliest known eyewitness accounts collected from the Itsekirs by their European contacts do attest to their Yoruba origin, root, and heritage.

(1) Quoting from the eyewitness account of Captain H. L. Gallwey in his “Journeys in the Benin Country”:

“Let me now refer briefly to the tribes that people this part of the world. First we come to the Jakris, who are connected in race and language with the Yoruba people, extending from the Mahin country on the west to the Forcados on the East, and inland about as far as Sapele.”
Reference:
H. L. Gallwey, “Journeys in the Benin Country, West Africa,” The Geographical Journal, Vol. 1, No. 2 (Feb., 1893), p.127.

(2) Quoting from H. Ling Roth’s (1903) report obtained from the eyewitnesses of the late 1800s:

“In this respect, however, the officials agree with the tradition of the people at Warri, the Jekries, who claim to come from the west.”
Reference:
H. Ling Roth, “Great Benin: Its Customs, Arts and Horrors,” (1903), pp.8-9.

(3) Itsekiris duly present at their Yoruba-Oduduwa rally at Ibadan a couple of days ago.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13414590_whatsappimage20210417at13_22_59_jpeg_jpeg2cb85cbc151423af2338b7f4a26927e9

Cheers!

I saw your eyewitness reference to Benin country and great Benin.

Please could you also show us the earliest eyewitness reference to Ooni as the leader of the Yoruba people.

samuk:
[s]I saw your eyewitness reference to Benin country and great Benin.

Please could you also show us the earliest eyewitness reference to Ooni as the leader of the Yoruba people[/s]

Itsekiris: “We are Yoruba and proud ”

Binis: “No! You should be Bini. Pleaeaeaeaease “
•
•
•
Can someone please define “insecurity” for me I want to check something?

gregyboy:
This is repulsive and a slap to made up cultural laws

The 1979 edict says only prince born by either a benin or itsekiri woman could be made king but none of this prince's made the requirement as all their mothers are Yorubas, the iyasere should have occupied till the prince's heir makes the requirement

Now the stool has been defied and no respect for the royal law

What comes first.....the rules or the human?