Krismas:
Do u go to all dis length just to win an argument? I presented John 13:27. Which says SATAN ENTERED INTO JUDAS! U say its either dubious script or figurative. U are entitled to your opinion, believe whatever u like. In Adams case God warned him enough. Matthew 7:18-20 Jesus even repeated what shud be done to evil trees. Cut it down and throw it into fire. After being told the tree was evil, he can only have himself to blame for not disposing of it

So why didn't God cut down the tree from the beginning?

See, the Bible did not just jump down from Heaven.

Writers copied from one another. The other gospel writers copied from Mark. If the Devil literally entered Judas, the writer of Mark would have documented it.

I am not saying the Devil is a good guy. But many changes have gone into the Bible to make the Devil appear to be just more than the tempter he originally was. Just as efforts have gone into making Jesus appear to be God Himself.

I have a degree in Theology. I am not talking from the perspective of the Bible, but from the perspective of a historian.

No one has the original books of the Bible. All we have are books copied from two authoritative (but not original) versions of the Bible.

For example, King James favored "Devil" over "demon" as though the words can and should be used interchangeably. But a demon is not the Devil.

PrincessGlow:

I'm sure u can see the sense in what I'm saying. You are just arguing. The TYPE OF PERSON you are, which you never chose, determined everything. If u were a different type of person u would have rejected JW and stayed with Islam. If u think deeply enough you'd realise man is basically an advanced robot.

So you're saying man should not be held accountable for his deeds, shey?
You're not making any sense walahi talahi, because if what you're trying to say is true then there won't be any need for this argument, you should simply agree that i'm the type that welcomes change when i feel it's not profitable to continue whereas you're the type that gives up and stop moving even when it's glaring that you're retrogressing!

I watched a video of a 73 year old woman saying she no longer believed in JW teachings but had to stay because it was all her life. From what I hear, it is when you try to leave JW that you'd realise you joined a cult

Your old woman is tired of her faith nah, it doesn't mean everyone else should give up, if there's life outside JWs what stops her from leaving? John 6:68
Can't you see people committing suicide here and there?
Does that justifies suicide?

BluntTheApostle:


So why didn't God cut down the tree from the beginning?

See, the Bible did not just jump down from Heaven.

Writers copied from one another. The other gospel writers copied from Mark. If the Devil literally entered Judas, the writer of Mark would have documented it.

I am not saying the Devil is a good guy. But many changes have gone into the Bible to make the Devil appear to be just more than the tempter he originally was. Just as efforts have gone into making Jesus appear to be God Himself.

I have a degree in Theology. I am not talking from the perspective of the Bible, but from the perspective of a historian.

No one has the original books of the Bible. All we have are books copied from two authoritative (but not original) versions of the Bible.

For example, King James favored "Devil" over "demon" as though the words can and should be used interchangeably. But a demon is not the Devil.

Why didnt God cut down the tree from the beginning? Why does God not cut the weeds in your garden? U have a role in the scheme of things or dont u. Many believe right now that heaven is so clean yet will frown at the tot that there must be cleaners, gardeners there. No self sustaining system anywhere. Its not just about coping from one another, the synoptic gospels have certain similar narratives like they stem from a common source, doesnt mean they dont hold significant differences. What u saying in nutshell, though u not saying it well is the accepted code for exegesis THAT AN IDEA MUST OCCUR AT LEAST TWICE IN THE BIBLE FOR IT TO BECOME A DOCTRINE. Since from the mouth of two or more is a matter established. Its true. And by the way, U ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT ABOUT SATAN NOT ABLE TO POSSESS PEOPLE. I know, i was just checking you up. Trying to see how deep u are. Believe me, i respect your degree in theology though i believe we can differ on a few things, like 1. I believe the devil has taken an upgrade in power and wickedness, since the last time he was the tempter. To be quiet frank, i really dont think the one who tempted Eve is the devil of Today, that guy is gone. 2. I believe Jesus is God incarnated. 3. With the exception of the new testament scripts, which due to the destruction and arson it suffered from hands of many malevolent actors in the past, the Bible is well preserved. The copies are copies of the copies of the copies of the original copies. Of Course a demon is not the devil. They are different so i dont understand the point u made on dat

Krismas:
Why didnt God cut down the tree from the beginning? Why does God not cut the weeds in your garden? U have a role in the scheme of things or dont u. Many believe right now that heaven is so clean yet will frown at the tot that there must be cleaners, gardeners there. No self sustaining system anywhere. Its not just about coping from one another, the synoptic gospels have certain similar narratives like they stem from a common source, doesnt mean they dont hold significant differences. What u saying in nutshell, though u not saying it well is the accepted code for exegesis THAT AN IDEA MUST OCCUR AT LEAST TWICE IN THE BIBLE FOR IT TO BECOME A DOCTRINE. Since from the mouth of two or more is a matter established. Its true. And by the way, U ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT ABOUT SATAN NOT ABLE TO POSSESS PEOPLE. I know, i was just checking you up. Trying to see how deep u are. Believe me, i respect your degree in theology though i believe we can differ on a few things, like 1. I believe the devil has taken an upgrade in power and wickedness, since the last time he was the tempter. To be quiet frank, i really dont think the one who tempted Eve is the devil of Today, that guy is gone. 2. I believe Jesus is God incarnated. 3. With the exception of the new testament scripts, which due to the destruction and arson it suffered from hands of many malevolent actors in the past, the Bible is well preserved. The copies are copies of the copies of the copies of the original copies. Of Course a demon is not the devil. They are different so i dont understand the point u made on dat

Remember Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil.

It was God's sole responsibility to remove Evil from their midst since they could not tell good from evil.

Even if God warned them severally, the fact is that they could not tell good from evil.

Anyway, the Creation Story sounds more like a Jewish fable than a reality.

BluntTheApostle:


Remember Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil.

It was God's sole responsibility to remove Evil from their midst since they could not tell good from evil.

Even if God warned them severally, the fact is that they could not tell good from evil.

Anyway, the Creation Story sounds more like a Jewish fable than a reality.

Adam and eve had no knowledge of good and evil. wot i understand from that is they have not EXPERIENCED the difference. U need to EXPERIENCE hunger to appreciate the blessedness of filled-stomach. It doesnt mean they didnt have an intellectual understanding of the concept of good and evil. I for instance have never been struck by lighting, but i certainly dont want to experience it. so i heed all the advice about conduct during a thunderstorm. Why will Adam want to experience suffering? They cud tell the difference btw the realities theoretically. Having said all this, i believe the real answer lie in the fact that GOOD and EVIL are opposite sides of the same coin. u cant define one without the other. until one suffers or see others suffer, he cant appreciate enjoyment. So, both realities are in God, and makeup creation and can't be removed. I merely wish Adam had closed the door on evil permanently. Then once more, permit me to believe the creation story is not mere Jewish fable

frankson1:

You should get a better understanding of the 'KINGDOM' you're referring to.

Kindly enlighten us about it

MaxInDHouse:

So you're saying man should not be held accountable for his deeds, shey?
You're not making any sense walahi talahi, because if what you're trying to say is true then there won't be any need for this argument, you should simply agree that i'm the type that welcomes change when i feel it's not profitable to continue whereas you're the type that gives up and stop moving even when it's glaring that you're retrogressing!


Your old woman is tired of her faith nah, it doesn't mean everyone else should give up, if there's life outside JWs what stops her from leaving? John 6:68
Can't you see people committing suicide here and there?
Does that justifies suicide?

Man is programed. He constantly updates the programming as new experiences come. The reason he should be held accountable for his deeds and punished or rewarded for them is because that's the best way to update his programming.
Do you think if Adam and Eve had a 2nd chance they'd eat the fruit again??
---------------------

The old woman said they'd ostracized you and cut off all your social connections if you try to leave JW

PrincessGlow:

Man is programed. He constantly updates the programming as new experiences come. The reason he should be held accountable for his deeds and punished or rewarded for them is because that's the best way to update his programming.
Do you think if Adam and Eve had a 2nd chance they'd eat the fruit again??

You're confused my friend!
There's nothing like programing in this matter, if man had the ability to do anything they'll just do it without hesitation. As for Adam and Eve it's written all over their faces just that unwise readers like you can't read the unsaid.

Adam blamed his Creator for giving him a wife {Genesis 3:12} and Eve blamed God for giving her life in the garden {Genesis 3:13} give them a million chance and they will ever continue to rebel only to later shift blame!

The old woman said they'd ostracized you and cut off all your social connections if you try to leave JW

This shows how low your IQ, real CULTISTS will exterminate any member that tries to leave their caucus because they control all the connections. Jehovah's Witnesses only controls members which is only less than 9,000,000 out of about 9,000,000,000 inhabitants of this planet. So how do you think 1 out of 1,000 persons can make any difference when you choose to leave him and run into the midst of the thousand?
Moreover they don't believe in killing anyone and they're the most easygoing people on this planet, what influence do you think they could have?
My guy the truth is obvious. Many lawless people left the organization but they just can't find another happy family of peace loving worshipers elsewhere yet they want JWs to continue treating them like members of the global family whereas they don't want to live by the same standard guiding the family! Romans 16:17

So stop deceiving yourself, if some people brainwashed you to think peaceful and easygoing people are CULTISTS wake-up from you slumber my man! You've been thoroughly deceived!

MaxInDHouse:

You're confused my friend!
There's nothing like programing in this matter, if man had the ability to do anything they'll just do it without hesitation. As for Adam and Eve it's written all over their faces just that unwise readers like you can't read the unsaid.

Adam blamed his Creator for giving him a wife {Genesis 3:12} and Eve blamed God for giving her life in the garden {Genesis 3:13} give them a million chance and they will ever continue to rebel only to later shift blame!



This shows how low your IQ, real CULTISTS will exterminate any member that tries to leave their caucus because they control all the connections. Jehovah's Witnesses only controls members which is only less than 9,000,000 out of about 9,000,000,000 inhabitants of this planet. So how do you think 1 out of 1,000 persons can make any difference when you choose to leave him and run into the midst of the thousand?
Moreover they don't believe in killing anyone and they're the most easygoing people on this planet, what influence do you think they could have?
My guy the truth is obvious. Many lawless people left the organization but they just can't find another happy family of peace loving worshipers elsewhere yet they want JWs to continue treating them like members of the global family whereas they don't want to live by the same standard guiding the family! Romans 16:17

So stop deceiving yourself, if some people brainwashed you to think peaceful and easygoing people are CULTISTS wake-up from you slumber my man! You've been thoroughly deceived!

U r programmed by your genes, how your brain works, your environment, etc. That's what the subconscious is - you programming. It is 30,000 times more powerful than your conscious mind. It is what determines who you are and you have no control over it.
-------------
The main hallmark of cult is that they isolate you from the rest of society by consuming most of your time in the cults activities. So that all your life is in the cult:
if you ever dare leave you'd have no one. See below

MaxInDHouse:

)

BTW in Adam and Eve there is one big elephant everyone carefully ignores: how did Adam and Eve acquire a rebellious spirit

MISHIGAS!

GeneralDae:

I wonder why Christians can't accept that the bible is contradictory.

Daniel clearly said God rules in the affairs of men and gives the kingdom to whomever he chooses, while the new testament authors seem to believe that Satan is the ruler of this world. It's a contradiction of Ideologies between Daniel and the new testament authors.

DANIEL IS UNRELIABLE: IF HE HAD TOLD NEBUCHADNEZZAR THAT HIS POWER CAME FROM SATAN, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED IMMEDIATELY!

Use commonsense: How can God give Power to a man who demands to be WORSHIPPED AS A GOD?

MaxInDHouse:
Find the true Christians they will help you understand their book.

THAT IS A COMPLETE LIE- WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES^® ARE GOOD FOR.

No Human has the Right to teach you The Word of God, but your PARENTS.

.     EXODUS 20:1-7.

AND God Spake
all these Words,
Saying,

2. "I (am) The LORD thy God,
Which have brought thee
out of The Land of Egypt,
out of The House of Bondage.

3. "Thou shalt have
no other gods before Me.

4. "Thou shalt not
make unto thee
any graven image,
or any likeness (of any thing)
that (is) in the Earth beneath,
or that (is) in the Water
under the Earth:
5. "Thou shalt not
bow down thyself to them,
nor serve them:
for I The LORD thy God
(am) a Jealous God,
visiting the iniquity
of the fathers
upon the third and fourth (generation)
of them that Hate Me.
6. "And shewing Mercy
unto thousands of them
which Love Me,
and Keep My Commandments.

7. "Thou shalt not
take The Name
of The LORD thy God
in vain;
for The LORD will not
hold him guiltless
that taketh His Name
in vain."

GOD HOLDS EVERY HUMAN ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE INIQUITIES COMMITTED BY THEIR PARENTS, THEIR GRANDPARENTS, AND THEIR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS.

. NUMBERS 15:27-31.

27. "And if any man Sin
through Ignorance,
then he shall bring
a She Goat of the first year
for a Sin Offering.
28. "And the Priest
shall make an Atonement
for the Soul
that Sinneth Ignorantly,
when he Sinneth
by Ignorance
before The LORD,
to make an Atonement
for him,
and it shall be
forgiven him.
29. " Ye shall have one Law
for him that Sinneth Ignorantly
(both for) him
that is born
among the Children of Israel,
and for the Stranger
that sojourneth
among them.
30. "But the Soul
that doeth
(ought) presumptuously,
(whether he be)
born in the land,
or a Stranger,
the same reproacheth
The LORD;
and that Soul
shall be cut off
from among his people.
31. "Because he hath
despised The Word
of The LORD,
and hath broken
His Commandment,
that Soul
shall utterly be cut off;
his Iniquity
(shall be) upon him."

. DEUTERONOMY 6:1-9.

NOW these are
The Commandments,
The Statutes,
and The Judgments,
Which The LORD your God
Commanded to teach you,
that ye might do them
in the land whither ye go
to possess It:
2. That thou mightest
fear The LORD thy God,
to keep all His Statutes
and His Commandments,
Which I Command thee,
thou, and thy son,
and thy son's son,
all the days of thy life;
and that thy days
may be prolonged.
3. Hear therefore,
O Israel,
and observe to do (It);
that it may be well with thee,
and that ye may
increase mightily,
as the LORD God of thy fathers
hath promised thee,
in the land that floweth
with milk and honey.
4. Hear, O Israel:
The LORD our God
is one LORD:
5. And thou shalt love
The LORD thy God
with all thine Heart,
and with all thy Soul,
and with all thy might.
6. And these Words,
which I Command thee
this day,
shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach Them
diligently unto thy children,
and shalt talk of Them
when thou sittest
in thine house,
and when thou walkest
by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind Them
for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write Them
upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.

LIFE COMES FROM FULFILLING THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD: EATING PHYSICAL FOOD IS ONLY THE LEAST OPTION OF FULFILLING THE COMMANDMENT TO FEED OURSELVES.

It takes at least seven years to understand The Scriptures.

If your parents failed in their Duty- which is par for Gentiles- you have to make up for their carelessness and laziness yourself.

. JOB 28:28.

28. "And unto Man He Said,

'BEHOLD, THE FEAR OF THE LORD,
THAT IS WISDOM;
AND TO DEPART FROM EVIL,
IS UNDERSTANDING.' "

. PSALM 111:10.

10. The Fear of The LORD
is The Beginning of Wisdom:
a Good Understanding
have all they
that do His Commandments:
His Praise endureth for ever.

.   ISAIAH 55:6-9.

6. Seek ye The LORD,
while He may be found,
call ye upon Him
while He is near.
7. Let the Wicked
forsake his Way,
and the Unrighteous Man
his Thoughts:
and let him return
unto The LORD,
and He will have Mercy
upon him;
and to our God,
for He will abundantly pardon.

8. "FOR MY THOUGHTS
(ARE) NOT YOUR THOUGHTS,
NEITHER ARE YOUR WAYS
MY WAYS," Saith The LORD.
9. "FOR (AS) THE HEAVENS
ARE HIGHER
THAN THE EARTH,
SO ARE MY WAYS
HIGHER THAN YOUR WAYS,
AND MY THOUGHTS
THAN YOUR THOUGHTS.' "


. 2^nd CHRONICLES 16:9.

9. "For The Eyes of The LORD
run to and fro throughout
the whole Earth,
to show Himself strong
on behalf of those
whose heart
is perfect toward Him.
Herein thou hast done foolishly:
therefore from henceforth
thou shalt have wars.”


. AMOS 3:3.

3. Can two walk together,
except they be agreed?"

. ZECHARIAH 4:10.

10. For who hath despised
The Day of Small Things?
For they shall rejoice,
and shall see the plummet
in the hand of Zerubbabel
with those seven;
they are The Eyes of The LORD,
Which run to and fro
through the whole Earth.

A HEBREW Y'SRAELITE BEGAN THEIR DEDICATION TO GOD BY AGE 13 (BAR/BAT MITZVAH). EACH SPIRIT OF GOD SHOULD TAKE A YEAR TO ATTAIN.

. EXODUS 21:1-6.

"Now these are the Judgments
Which thou shalt set before them.

2. "If thou buy
an Hebrew servant,
six years He shall serve:
and in the seventh
he shall go out free for nothing.
3. "If he came in by himself,
he shall go out by himself:
if He were married,
then his wife
shall go out with him.
4. "If his master have
given him a wife,
and she have born him
sons or daughters;
the wife and her children
shall be her master's,
and He shall go out by himself.
5. "And if the servant shall plainly say,

"I LOVE MY MASTER,
MY WIFE, AND MY CHILDREN;
I WILL NOT GO OUT FREE:"

6. "Then his master
shall bring him unto the judges;
he shall also bring him
to the door
or unto the door post;
and his master
shall bore his ear
through with an aul;
and He shall serve him for ever."

. DEUTERONOMY 24:5.

5. When a man hath
taken a new wife,
he shall not go out to war,
neither shall he be charged
with any business
but he shall be free
at home one year,
and shall cheer up his wife
which he hath taken.

.   2^nd PETER 1:5-9.

5. And besides this,
giving all diligence,
add to your Faith Virtue,
and to Virtue Knowledge,
6. And to Knowledge Temperance,
and to Temperance Patience,
and to Patience Godliness,
7. And to Godliness Brotherly Kindness,
and to Brotherly Kindness Charity.
8. For if these things be in you,
and abound,
they make you
that ye shall neither be
barren nor unfruitful
in The Knowledge
of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9. But he that lacketh
these things is blind,
and cannot see afar off,
and hath forgotten
that he was purged
from his old Sins.

.    REVELATION 4:5.

5. And out of The Throne
proceeded Lightnings
and Thunderings and Voices:
and there were
seven Lamps of Fire
burning before The Throne,
Which are
The Seven Spirits of God.

.    REVELATION 5:6.

6. And I beheld, and, lo,
in the midst of the Throne
and of the four Beasts,
and in the midst of the Elders,
stood a Lamb
as it had been slain,
having seven Horns
and seven Eyes,
which are The seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the Earth.

oaroloye:


THE FOUR SPIRITUAL CATEGORIES ENERGY EACH HAVE THEIR OWN SIGNATURE MODE OF PERCEPTION:

. REVELATION 22:11-12.

11. "He that is UNJUST,
let him be Unjust still:
and he which is FILTHY,
let him be Filthy still:
and he that is RIGHTEOUS,
let him be Righteous still:
and he that is HOLY,
let him be Holy still.
12. "And, behold,
I come quickly;
and my Reward is with me,
to give every man According
as his Work shall be."

. MATTHEW 13:1-23.

THE same day went Jesus out of the house,
and sat by the sea side.
2. And great multitudes
were gathered together
unto him,
so that he went into a ship,
and sat;
and the whole multitude
stood on the shore.
3. And he Spake many things
unto them in Parables,
Saying,

"Behold, a sower
went forth to sow;
4. "And when he sowed,
some seeds
fell by the way side,
and the fowls came
and devoured them up:
5. "Some fell
upon stony places,
where they had
not much earth:
and forthwith they sprung up,
because they had
no deepness of earth:
6. "And when
the Sun was up,
they were scorched;
and because they had
no root,
they withered away.
7. "And some fell
among thorns;
and the thorns sprung up,
and choked them:
8. "But other fell
into good ground,
and brought forth fruit,
some an hundredfold,
some sixtyfold,
some thirtyfold.
9. "Who hath ears to hear,
let him hear."

10. And the Disciples came,
and said unto him,

"Why speakest thou
unto them in Parables?"

11. He Answered and Said
unto them,

"Because it is given unto you
to know The Mysteries
of The Kingdom of Heaven,
but to them it is not given.
12. "For whosoever hath,
to him shall be given,
and he shall have
more abundance:
but whosoever hath not,
from him shall be taken away
even that he hath.
13. "Therefore Speak I
to them in Parables:

'BECAUSE THEY SEEING
SEE NOT;
AND HEARING
THEY HEAR NOT,
NEITHER DO THEY
UNDERSTAND.'

14. "And in them is fulfilled
the Prophecy of Esaias,
which saith,

'BY HEARING YE SHALL HEAR,
AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND;
AND SEEING YE SHALL SEE,
AND SHALL NOT PERCEIVE:
15. 'FOR THIS PEOPLE'S HEART
IS WAXED GROSS,
AND THEIR EARS
ARE DULL OF HEARING,
AND THEIR EYES
THEY HAVE CLOSED;
LEST AT ANY TIME
THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND SHOULD UNDERSTAND
WITH THEIR HEART,
AND SHOULD BE CONVERTED,
AND I SHOULD HEAL THEM.'

16. "But Blessed
are your eyes,
for they see:
and your ears,
for they hear.
17. "For verily I Say unto you,

'THAT MANY PROPHETS
AND RIGHTEOUS MEN
HAVE DESIRED TO SEE
THOSE THINGS
WHICH YE SEE,
AND HAVE NOT SEEN THEM;
AND TO HEAR THOSE THINGS
WHICH YE HEAR,
AND HAVE NOT HEARD THEM.'

18. "Hear ye therefore
The Parable of the Sower.

19. 'WHEN ANY ONE HEARETH
THE WORD OF THE KINGDOM,
AND UNDERSTANDETH IT NOT,
THEN COMETH
THE WICKED ONE,
AND CATCHETH AWAY
THAT WHICH WAS SOWN IN HIS HEART.
THIS IS HE WHICH
RECEIVED SEED
BY THE WAY SIDE.

20. 'BUT HE THAT
RECEIVED THE SEED
INTO STONY PLACES,
THE SAME IS HE
THAT HEARETH THE WORD,
AND ANON WITH JOY
RECEIVETH IT;
21. 'YET HATH HE NOT
ROOT IN HIMSELF,
BUT DURETH FOR A WHILE:
FOR WHEN TRIBULATION OR PERSECUTION
ARISETH BECAUSE OF THE WORD,
BY AND BY HE IS OFFENDED.

22. 'HE ALSO THAT RECEIVED
SEED AMONG THE THORNS
IS HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD;
AND THE CARE OF THIS WORLD,
AND THE DECEITFULNESS OF RICHES,
CHOKE THE WORD,
AND HE BECOMETH UNFRUITFUL.

23. 'BUT HE THAT RECEIVED SEED
INTO THE GOOD GROUND
IS HE THAT HEARETH THE WORD,
AND UNDERSTANDETH IT;
WHICH ALSO BEARETH FRUIT,
AND BRINGETH FORTH,
SOME AN HUNDREDFOLD,
SOME SIXTY, SOME THIRTY.' "

MEDITATION IN THE LAW OF MOSES IS HOW THE SOUL IS CHARGED WITH SPIRITUAL ENERGY- LIKE A BATTERY.

oaroloye:

. JOSHUA 1:8.

8. "This Book of The Law
shall not depart
out of thy mouth
but thou shalt meditate
therein day and night,
that thou mayest do
according to all
that is written therein:
for then thou shalt
make thy way prosperous,
and then thou shalt have
Good Success."

IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER WAY TO ACHIEVE "GOOD SUCCESS," GOD WOULD HAVE TOLD US!

. PSALM 119:97-105.

97. O how I love Thy Law!
It is my meditation all the day.
98. Thou through Thy Commandments
hast made me Wiser
than mine enemies:
for They are ever with me.
99 I have more Understanding
than all my teachers:
for Thy Testimonies
are my meditation.
100. I understand
more than the Ancients,
because I keep Thy Precepts.
101. I have refrained my feet
from every Evil Way,
that I might keep Thy Word.
102. I have not departed
from Thy Judgments:
for Thou hast taught me.
103. How sweet are Thy Words
unto my taste!
yea, sweeter than honey
to my mouth!
104. Through Thy Precepts
I get Understanding:
therefore I hate
every False Way.
105. Thy Word is a Lamp
unto my feet,
and a Light unto my path.

UNDERSTANDING IS ACHIEVED THROUGH KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THEN MEDITATING UPON THE LAW OF GOD BY MOSES.

Obedience alone is not enough.

oaroloye:

. THE 40 LEVELS OF AWARENESS.

40. SERENITY
30. POSTULATES
22. GAMES
20. ACTION
8.0 EXHILARATION
6.0 AESTHETICS

4.0 ENTHUSIASM
3.5 CHEERFULNESS
3.0 CONSERVATION
2.5 BOREDOM

2.0 OVERT HOSTILITY
1.8 PAIN
1.5 ANGER
1.4 HATE
1.2 NO SYMPATHY
1.1 COVERT HOSTILITY
1.0 FEAR
0.9 SYMPATHY
0.5 GRIEF
0.1 APATHY
0.0 BODY DEATH.

. THE EIGHT DYNAMICS.

1. SELF; 2. FAMILY; 3. GROUPS; 4. ALL MANKIND; 5. ALL LIVING THINGS; 6. THE MEST (Matter, Energy, Space, Time - PHYSICAL) UNIVERSE; 7. SPIRITS; 8. GOD.

. AWARENESS LEVELS REQUIRED TO COMMAND THE DYNAMICS.

8. SELF; 12. GROUPS; 15. ALL MANKIND; 22. MEST UNIVERSE; 32. SPIRITS; 40. GOD.

. THE SIX LEVELS OF EXISTENCE.

1. BELIEFS; 2. THOUGHTS; 3. WORDS; 4. PHYSICAL ACTIONS; 5. POSTULATES; 6. TOTAL UNDERSTANDING.

. THE FOUR LEVELS OF PERCEPTION.

4. DIFFERENTIATION: The sane and intelligent ability to perceive the differences between similar things.

3. ASSOCIATION: The sane and intelligent ability to perceive the similarities between different things.

2. IDENTIFICATION: The insane and stupid inability to perceive the differences between different things.

1. DISSOCIATION: The insane and stupid inability to perceive the similarities between similar things.

0. DEATH: The Complete Failure of the ability to perceive anything.

. THE SIX NAGUALISM WARRIOR ATTRIBUTES.

1. CONTROL; 2. DISCIPLINE; 3. FORBEARANCE; 4. TIMING; 5. WILL; 6. COMPLIANCE.

[See: THE FIRE FROM WITHIN, by Carlos Castaneda.
SCIENTOLOGY 0-8: The Book of Basics, by L. Ron Hubbard.
THE DYNAMICS & TONE SCALE, by L. Ron Hubbard.
THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THOUGHT, by L. Ron Hubbard.]

AWARENESS IS A MEASURE OF AFFINITY (LIKING), REALITY (AGREEMENT), COMMUNICATION, KNOWLEDGE (ORGANIZATION OF SENSE DATA), RESPONSIBILITY (THE WILLINGNESS TO BE CAUSE), AND CONTROL (THE ABILITY TO START, TO CHANGE, AND TO STOP), aka. LIFE.

MaxInDHouse post=......]
Before i was a Muslim and that's exactly what our clerics always say about the Bible but fortunately for me it's one of them who told me that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES .. the book more than others that's why i began questioning JWs on those things that seems contradicting only to find out that the understanding of the book was given to just one Chosen group and whoever wants to read this book without the help of this group will be lost in thought! Daniel 12:10

[/quote]

I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE LYING ABOUT BEING A MUSLIM- A MAN WHO GREW UP WORSHIPPING ALLAH FIVE TIMES DAILY WILL HAVE LEARNED THE SIX WARRIOR ATTRIBUTES.

You show no evidence of having any of them, nor recognizing them.

[quote author=JooEeL:

See them still believing in cock and bull stories when herdsmen and boko haram are killing people even inside their safe haven... sorry churches.

I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE VERY INSENSITIVE, POLITICALLY-INCORRECT, AND RUDE FOR GETTING TO THE POINT!

How can people enjoy the debate, when you are telling them what the real problem is?

You are very inconsiderate, and I have to warn you that if you do not take care, you might save the country, instead of allowing- metaphorically-speaking- the car owners to die peacefully in their sleep, unlike their screaming passengers!

Muyiwaipere:
No he was not lieing did you read 1 John 5 vs 19?
Immediately Adam and even rebelled against God,they made the decision to follow Satan lie and accusation that God can’t rule them well

But soon Jehovah God is going to use his Som to take back the control of the world and rule it as the rightful owner

WHY WOULD GOD WANT TO CONTROL THE WORLD, WHEN THE WORLD DOES NOT BELONG TO HIM?

That statement will be completely incomprehensible to the layman, who believes that Christians believe that "GOD CREATED THE WORLD."

CHRISTIANS know that God did not create the World.

The JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES^® organization is built on the Prophecy of Charles Taze Russell that Lord Yeshua had already returned to the Earth in 1874, and would End the World in 1914.

The JEHOVAH'S WITLESSES^® taught that the World ended in 1914- since they use "kalokalo" Russian-Roulette Doctrines, I don't know whether they still teach that or not, because they changed It several times Judge Rutherford prophesied the End of the World in 1925, and other dates.

[See: THIRTY YEARS A WATCHTOWER SLAVE, by William J. Schnell.]

Being mentally-immature, thinking themselves superior for knowing minor things others do not- they won't explain that the modern Anglophone conflates the terms "WORLD," and "EARTH" as if they meant the same thing.

They don't.

It is childishly simple: "THE EARTH" means this supposed Planet (which may be FLAT, or CONCAVE, rather than CONVEX,) while "WORLD" means "THE CIVILIZATIONS on the Earth."

Oyinbo Fundamentalist Christianity has given the impression that Lord Yeshua is going to do World War Suya.

The reality may be like that- or it could be relatively quiet.

LORD YESHUA WILL DESTROY THE WORLD BY HIS SERVANTS IMPLEMENTING HIS WORD IN THE EARTH, MAKING THE KINGDOM OF SATAN- THE WORLD- COMPLETELY REDUNDANT.

PrincessGlow:

U r programmed by your genes, how your rain works, your environment, etc. That's what the subconscious is - you programming. It is 30,000 times more powerful than your conscious mind. It is what determines who you are and you have no control over it.

You have no knowledge about human making so you're entitled to your personal opinion!

The main hallmark of cult is that they isolate you from the rest of society by consuming most of your time in the cults activities. So that all your life is in the cult:
if you ever dare leave you'd have no one. See below

The truth of the matter is most of you only hear of Cultism but you don't know how real CULTISTS operates. It's the baby cultists in your Schools that you're using to quantify real CULTS!

FREEWILL!

PrincessGlow:

BTW in Adam and Eve there is one big elephant everyone carefully ignores: how did Adam and Eve acquire a rebellious spirit

MaxInDHouse:

You have no knowledge about human making so you're entitled to your personal opinion!



The truth of the matter is most of you only hear of Cultism but you don't know how real CULTISTS operates. It's the baby cultists in your Schools that you're using to quantify real CULTS!

Nope. Those things in school are gangs not cults. That's what they are called everywhere except Nigeria.
JW, Adventist, etc are mild cults unlike serious cults like Branch Davidians or Heavens Gate.

MaxInDHouse:
FREEWILL!

Ok, walk me through it: you are created and given a certain mindset and thinking faculty. You had no hand in choosing them but u must use them to make all your decisions - you can't override them. Explain to me, where exactly is the free will

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted!

Peter has finished all apostates with just one question:

If you leave the person or group claiming the only way, to whom will you go?

Please ask any apostate which group have they found performing like JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization? John 6:68

So let them present a better performing group than God's organization!

Nice one there bro

Krismas:
Tank u for taking time to read my referred scripture. I wanted u to see that, 1. The Vineyard is the kingdom of the earth. 2 The owner is God himself who planted it 3. After which HE LEASED it out to MEN not satan. 4 HE went to a FAR COUNTRY. Heaven. So the kingdom of earth is in leasehold of men. Next, i want us to harmonize our understanding of biblical terminologies. When the new testament say WORLD, It means SOCIAL/POLITICAL SYSTEM prevailing on the earth, not the earth itself. In the leasehold of earth in dat parable, there was the murderous culture, fueled by greed prevalent among the tenants. Which is not the culture of God. The earth is full of strange cultures emanating from satan. Thats why he is the prince of the world, thats why he is the ruler of the WORLD. NO sooner God gives a man an ability, a talent etc, he diverts it towards impure ends to the glorification of satan. thats how human give their authority to the Devil. By getting into his system and doing the will of the devil

At the bolded, it is clear that we are on the same page.
Which is: Satan is the ruler of the world.
Thank you so much for your time. Have a good night rest.

PrincessGlow:


I've never had anything to do with JW. I am only stating FACTS everyone can see for themselves.

See my post above. Argue it with logic. Here again:

I don't know why you can't see that your thoughts and therefore your decisions and choices are based ENTIRELY on how your brain works, your genes, where you were born, the environment you were raised in, etc. NONE of which you chose. If any of those things were changed your choices would change. So your choices were pre-determined by things you never chose. So where's the free will?
----------------
As for the rest, the apostles never gave end of world prediction based on a specific year. JW's did - many times. See below

What you presented here is never a fact but propaganda.
I should be the one telling you what Jehovah's Witnesses had said in the past not any newspaper or any other source for that matter.
The Watchtower or Awake and other publications are there to refer to what the JW's have said in past.
If you're looking for the eye of a fish, you go to the head.

I mentioned earlier that the Witnesses NEVER said CATEGORICALLY that the world will end in 1975.
But some persons including your likes took what was said about 1975 to mean that the world will end that year.

So the question now is, what exactly was said about 1975?
See the attachments below and stop the propaganda.
What i presented here was published in the October 15,1966 Watchtower page 627 with the topic....Rejoicing over “God’s Sons of Liberty” Spiritual Feast, 9 years b4 the year 1975.
You can get the Watchtower on jw.org

Please after reading it, tell me where the falsehood you're spreading emanates from.

PrincessGlow:


Nope. Those things in school are gangs not cults. That's what they are called everywhere except Nigeria.
JW, Adventist, etc are mild cults unlike serious cults like Branch Davidians or Heavens Gate.

Just say that you and your likes are the ones branding them as cultists.
I have been to 9 European, 4 South American, 5 North America, 3 Asian and 15 African countries and Australia.
The way they're known here, that's how they're known elsewhere.
Get that fact.

ospido:




What you presented here is never a fact but propaganda.
I should be the one telling you what Jehovah's Witnesses had said in the past not any newspaper or any other source for that matter.
The Watchtower or Awake and other publications are there to refer to what the JW's have said in past.
If you're looking for the eye of a fish, you go to the head.

I mentioned earlier that the Witnesses NEVER said CATEGORICALLY that the world will end in 1975.
But some persons including your likes took what was said about 1975 to mean that the world will end that year.

So the question now is, what exactly was said about 1975?
See the attachments below and stop the propaganda.
What i presented here was published in the October 15,1966 Watchtower page 627 with the topic....Rejoicing over “God’s Sons of Liberty” Spiritual Feast, 9 years b4 the year 1975.
You can get the Watchtower on jw.org

Please after reading it, tell me where the falsehood you're spreading emanates from.

I don't know why u r fixated on 1975 when the JW have predicted other years, the biggest being 1914.
These are verbatim quotations:


Some specific predictions by Russell:

"And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy." Studies In The Scriptures, Vol. III, (1897) 2
bullet "...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (1889). 3

bullet "In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. II, (1889) 2
However, in 1912, he back-pedalled somewhat:

bullet "...he wrote that, while the prophecy remains valid, the power of the Gentiles could end either in October 1914 or in October 1915." 4
"Russell's movement expanded rapidly" in the years leading up to 1914. 1

However, the year 1914 came and passed without the visible appearance of Christ, the massive genocide, and the new Kingdom of God. The WTS regarded the start of the World War 1 as confirmation that the process leading to TEOTWAWKI, and to Christ's return, had started. They decided that 1914 was the year that Jesus invisibly began his rule from heaven.

1915, 1918, & 1920
In 1914-NOV, immediately after Russell's prophecy had failed, he wrote that the period of transition could run a "good many years." 4

The Watchtower magazine suggested that the destruction would happen "...shortly after 1914 with the utter destruction" of other Christian denominations and the inauguration of Christ's millennial reign. They first predicted that this would happen in 1915. Drawing a parallel with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Army in 70 CE, the authors of the 1915 Edition of "The Time Is At Hand" wrote:

"The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overthrown about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity." 5

After Russell's death in 1916, the WTS rewrote large portions of his Studies in the Scriptures to reflect the new belief that the year 1914 was merely the beginning of the end of Gentile times. 4
The WTS later delayed the millennium to 1918. 6 A 1917 WTS publication, "The Finished Mystery" stated:

"...in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity." 7

That year also passed uneventfully, except for the end of World War I.

The WTS introduced the concept that Christ would establish his millennial kingdom on earth "before the generation who saw the events of 1914 passes away." With many humans achieving a life span of over 90 years, this could place the War of Armageddon at any time between 1914 and the early 21st century

I know your type, when you see misinformed churchgoers you reason normally but when you come in contact with a real Christian you'll start arguing blindly!

Freewill is doctor, engineer, tailor, carpenter, lawyer: professionalism that has to do with choice.
People choose what they'll eat or drink, the type of person they'll marry, where they want to dwell on the surface of the planet and so on.
If Adam and Eve never sinned this would have been the situation till today but after the event in Eden humans became desperate to manage the limited time they had to acquire everything they want, that's why life is like this now.
God promised to bring back PARADISE so that we can continue to live with freewill again unlike now that circumstances shapen our thinking.
So learn from true Christians how God arranged everything before man decided to take God's place and brought hardship upon himself!

PrincessGlow:

Ok, walk me through it: you are created and given a certain mindset and thinking faculty. You had no hand in choosing them but u must use them to make all your decisions - you can't override them. Explain to me, where exactly is the free will

The Bible belongs to JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES so if you want to understand the book go and ask JWs the meaning of what was recorded about Adam and Eve.
They both perfectly knew the difference between good and evil Sir.
What they wanted is the authority to set standards for themselves and their progenies, this is the tree that does not include in what they can eat!
For instance when someone says you've beaten more than what you can chew it doesn't mean we're talking about bread and butter but starting what you can't finish!
That's what happened Sir.
Till today Adam's descendants are still chewing the forbidden fruit that's why the world's problems keep escalating. Humans aren't supposed to rule humans with their own thinking, for peace to reign we all must find out the standard God set and live by it. That's why only JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES have LOVE, JOY and PEACE permeating their gathering while all others are fighting and killing one another as they're trying to RULE one another using the standards they set by themselves!

BluntTheApostle:

Remember Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil. It was God's sole responsibility to remove Evil from their midst since they could not tell good from evil. Even if God warned them severally, the fact is that they could not tell good from evil. Anyway, the Creation Story sounds more like a Jewish fable than a reality.

I must say, i'm enjoying the debate and thank God there's no our usual tribe drama here. My take on this is; when we talk of fact or truth, where do we get them from? If we have the understanding that our knowledge of this world are handed over to us by parents, teachers and those we trust and hold in high esteem in the society, which beg the question how can we affirm or deny all that we were/are taught? So when you debate how about we do it with an open mind instead of from a place of certainty, many of us focus on being right than: what if there's some truth to what the other person is saying. I like what Socretes said: i know i am intelligent because i know nothing. Also i see us as people born with different lens, the interpretation of the things we see lies with the colour of our lenses which beg the question what if we are wrong? what if your pastor, teacher or that writer is wrong? when u wake from your sleep, u say u had a dream, but did u call it a dream while in ur dream land?

Krismas:
Adam and eve had no knowledge of good and evil. wot i understand from that is they have not EXPERIENCED the difference. U need to EXPERIENCE hunger to appreciate the blessedness of filled-stomach.

If that is the case, Adam and Eve had to experience misery to appreciate the life they had at Eden. Then, why was God so mad? And why have you accused the Devil of telling a half-truth, when his intention had driven man to acquire the knowledge to appreciate the goodness of Eden?

It doesnt mean they didnt have an intellectual understanding of the concept of good and evil.

How could they have had an intellectual understanding of the concept of Good and Evil when they had experienced neither of them either through reading or from the experiences of other people? No one acquires knowledge from birth. We acquire knowledge through experiences (either from formal and/or informal education). If Adam and Eve had an intellectual understanding of even the simplest concepts, then they would not be different from the humanity that came through them. It was after they ate from the tree that they actually became enlightened.

I for instance have never been struck by lighting, but i certainly dont want to experience it.

But you have read about lightning and the damage they can do if they strike a human being. But can a newborn baby care about experiencing it or not?

If you warn a baby not to touch fire, do you think the baby will listen? The baby will only learn when it experiences being burnt by fire. We learn from experience. Adam and Eve were inexperienced. The opening of their eyes was not merely for the sake of seeing their unclothedness. It is akin to growing up and becoming fully conscious.

soo i heed all the advice about conduct during a thunderstorm.

Yes, because you know about thunderstorm. Adam and Eve had never sinned before nor had they ever seen someone getting punished for sinning. There was nothing to learn from.

Why will Adam want to experience suffering? They cud tell the difference btw the realities theoretically.

Without the knowledge of two things, how can you even tell the difference? You can't tell Africa from North America, so how can you even begin to tell the difference when you don't even know one from the other?

Having said all this, i believe the real answer lie in the fact that GOOD and EVIL are opposite sides of the same coin. u cant define one without the other. until one suffers or see others suffer, he cant appreciate enjoyment.

Which means it was necessary for Adam to sin to understand and appreciate the blessedness of Eden?

So, both realities are in God, and makeup creation and can't be removed. I merely wish Adam had closed the door on evil permanently. Then once more, permit me to believe the creation story is not mere Jewish fable

Unfortunately, it is a Jewish fable. It was only ever mentioned once or thereabouts in the Bible. For something so huge to have very little connections with the rest of the Bible speaks volumes of its lack of true connection.

Test your faith!

vanvino:
I must say, i'm enjoying the debate and thank God there's no our usual tribe drama here. My take on this is; when we talk of fact or truth, where do we get them from? If we have the understanding that our knowledge of this world are handed over to us by parents, teachers and those we trust and hold in high esteem in the society, which beg the question how can we affirm or deny all that we were/are taught? So when you debate how about we do it with an open mind instead of from a place of certainty, many of us focus on being right than: what if there's some truth to what the other person is saying. I like what Socretes said: i know i am intelligent because i know nothing. Also i see us as people born with different lens, the interpretation of the things we see lies with the colour of our lenses which beg the question what if we are wrong? what if your pastor, teacher or that writer is wrong? when u wake from your sleep, u say u had a dream, but did u call it a dream while in ur dream land?

MaxInDHouse:
Test your faith!

I don't understand

BluntTheApostle:


If that is the case, Adam and Eve had to experience misery to appreciate the life they had at Eden. Then, why was God so mad? And why have you accused the Devil of telling a half-truth, when his intention had driven man to acquire the knowledge to appreciate the goodness of Eden?



How could they have had an intellectual understanding of the concept of Good and Evil when they had experienced neither of them either through reading or from the experiences of other people? No one acquires knowledge from birth. We acquire knowledge through experiences (either from formal and/or informal education). If Adam and Eve had an intellectual understanding of even the simplest concepts, then they would not be different from the humanity that came through them. It was after they ate from the tree that they actually became enlightened.



But you have read about lightning and the damage they can do if they strike a human being. But can a newborn baby care about experiencing it or not?

If you warn a baby not to touch fire, do you think the baby will listen? The baby will only learn when it experiences being burnt by fire. We learn from experience. Adam and Eve were inexperienced. The opening of their eyes was not merely for the sake of seeing their unclothedness. It is akin to growing up and becoming fully conscious.



Yes, because you know about thunderstorm. Adam and Eve had never sinned before nor had they ever seen someone getting punished for sinning. There was nothing to learn from.



Without the knowledge of two things, how can you even tell the difference? You can't tell Africa from North America, so how can you even begin to tell the difference when you don't even know one from the other?



Which means it was necessary for Adam to sin to understand and appreciate the blessedness of Eden?



Unfortunately, it is a Jewish fable. It was only ever mentioned once or thereabouts in the Bible. For something so huge to have very little connections with the rest of the Bible speaks volumes of its lack of true connection.

Adam’s story resound thruout d Bible so I don know where u got d untrue dat it’s an isolated case in Genesis, I tink u are trying to justify d position of the devil in d argument, I.e it is cool to come to d experiential knowledge of suffering to better understand d benefits of pleasure. It’s a lie. Adam was reliably informed by God abt the consequences of unpleasant experiences. He had first class information, dats knowledge enough. U do not have to be a cow to know abt hay. I also have never seen an atom or d famed rings around Jupiter but instructions regarding dem is wot I run wit. Remember too dat d intellectual capacity of humans have shrunk since d fall, they cud mentally tell and had no need to seek d experience Satan promised dem Wud be superb

I'm just a guy with the quesions; On the Adam & Eve+Freewill, i want to talk about the war in heaven that brought Adam&Eve the Devil. He was most loved by God, so why was he not forgiven? or hold a prisoner in heaven. He was not bad while living on earth but while in heaven, but u who has done bad on earth want to go to heaven & live peaceful, really? It was because of pride...so where did pride come from since he didn't creat himself. oh, Freewill: when did we have this freewill? Before or after birth? Dad & Mom enjoyed themself, after 9month here you are, but they said they did u a favour for bringing u here, how? Which part did u play in ur coming? You are suffering, ur family is victimized cause u are poor the devil said give me ur soul & be rich but God said if u do no heaven for u. So one Being take advantage of your desire live forever another Being your desire to be succesful on earth. I enjoy what Lucky Dube said; somewhere(it doest exist) between heaven & earth that's where u will find real freedom.

A god is meant to be worshiped by a multitude so to ascertain the effect of a god we need to consider the positive effect of such a deity in the midst of the worshipers.
So whatever you've heard from your dad, mum, Uncle, teacher or others regarding the God they introduced to you. If you want to know the truth then try to thoroughly examine the outcome of the tenets of such God in the gathering of the worshipers.
Each God is presented with a THEORY: How the God came about the earth and the relationship between the God and his/her worshipers. In this case you don't need to give yourself any headache, just allow each to say whatever they want since it's about the spirit realms and we can't see the spirit.

Then think about the PRACTICAL APPLICATION of what the worshipers say after their THEORY. This has to do with way people deal with their God, fellow worshipers and neighbours who have nothing to do with their God.

The last is BENEFIT of the PRACTICAL APPLICATION.
There's only one group that passed this test all others failed after the first and second test they can't progress to the last stage!

vanvino:
I don't understand

Mr MaxinDhouse, nice view; my question, since non of us has seen "god" but his worshippers views, claiming god's words, how did u know that a god is meant to be worship? How did u come about such knowledge? Is a "god" god cus he's worship or meant to be worship? Or its by worshiping him that makes him a god to the worshipper? lets say, for instance Buhari has a positive effect on my community (multitude) can i tell my great-grand-children that he is a god? Lets say they put it to test and it didn't turn out as i told them, does that make Buhari no longer a "god" to me who has experienced it or to them who didn't? so the "positive effect" does that lies with the god or the worshipper?... Thoroughly examind whose tools (knowledge) am i going to use? I search for the truth about God/Allah, i read Bible i interview christians, Quran & Muslim what do u think the "truth" will be? god/allah is bad?

In Ancient biblical times the Creator of heaven earth is the one in charge but choose men/priests to guide his people. Anytime his people break his commands and go into Idolatry which He hates, He sends other wicked nations to take them as captives and rule them with iron hands until they wake up one day and start crying out to their Creator. He only uses the wicked nations to teach them lesson and when his people wake up and seek him, He punishes those nations too and save his people. So our Creator allowed everything that happened in those times and therefore the ruler of the world (Psalm 24:1)

After the war in heaven that led to the throwing down of the devil and his friends, the devil took control. Rev 12:12 vividly captured it, It says WOE TO THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH....for the devil is come down unto you. Since then the devil is the ruler of the world. His seeds are all over the world and control it thru science, politics, religion etc. All your religions Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc they are the hidden one who control it all but you people don't know. Rev 12: 9 says the devil was cast out into the earth and he will DECEIVE THE WHOLE WORLD. The only solution is to keep the Creator's commands and believe in the true Messiah( the Messiah who rule the world today is the fake cos you all are decieved). The true Messiah is one who brings the true salvation and in his coming shall all the wickedness of the world and the one who rules it will end. He is the rightful heir and comes to take back power and save his people who the devil came to devour and always persecute -AFRICANS (Rev 12:17)

The devil rule this present world and if the true Messiah didn't come, there is no salvation cos they (the devil and his seeds) have deceived the entire world. They control everything. Just live right and wait on your salvation(the true Messiah). Very soon, it will be glaring with way things are going now.

MaxInDHouse:
I know your type, when you see misinformed churchgoers you reason normally but when you come in contact with a real Christian you'll start arguing blindly!

Freewill is doctor, engineer, tailor, carpenter, lawyer: professionalism that has to do with choice.
People choose what they'll eat or drink, the type of person they'll marry, where they want to dwell on the surface of the planet and so on.
If Adam and Eve never sinned this would have been the situation till today but after the event in Eden humans became desperate to manage the limited time they had to acquire everything they want, that's why life is like this now.
God promised to bring back PARADISE so that we can continue to live with freewill again unlike now that circumstances shapen our thinking.
So learn from true Christians how God arranged everything before man decided to take God's place and brought hardship upon himself!

I only told you to walk through and show me where free will comes in. You couldn't. Ok, let me walk you through. Example, choice to become a doctor, what led to it:
1) How the person's brain works, how he thinks, his mindset, the type of person he is - which he did NOT choose
2) The type of genes he has - which he did NOT choose.
3) His birth circumstances and upbringing - which he did NOT choose
4) The type of parents he had - which he did NOT choose
5) The type of people and environment he was exposed to, growing up - which he did NOT choose

So you see, he appears to make a choice, when infact his choice was pre-determined by things he never chose.