He didn't kill the Clippers cos they never met in the playoffs. That was an expectation. I seriously doubt your basketball knowledge for bringing this up.
You don't get it man. You can be great and still not be the GOAT. That means there are levels to greatness.
Ofcourse, AD can dominate on both ends of the court and still not be the finals MVP. Domination is not equal to MVP, especially when you have another dominant player beside you.
You are making it seem as if you are making some solid fresh arguments, with your "embelebe treatment" and friendly-slaps. No you are not man.

nairamaniac:


Are you saying that him leading his teams to 10finals is overrated as a point of aguement to emphasize his greatness?

I wish we could just meet in real life so I can give you the embelebe treatment he gave to that woman that burnt a 5year old child's head.
Well, just kidding with the violent act.

But somehow you deserve some friendly-slaps if that's what you meant.

Azin, some of those finals were kind of easy, cos east was weak.


But some where very very difficult.

Last year, no one expected lakers as at beginning of season to beat the clippers of the west.

Yet, after killing clippers, most haters came on to say "he wouldn't have succeeded without AD".
YET, lebron got the mvp.
Then haters came on to say AD Dominated both ends of court.

You guys gotta give props when it's due bro.

Let's forget all these many talks, we are both pulling this thread several pages behind.

I'm enjoying this thread more than all these our many talks.

Take care bros

benji93:
First bolded: For someone who's intelligent, i find it hard to understand why you would use that. When I say you are confused now you will complain. What has Kobe got to do with this?[\b]

Second bolded: You have literally not done anything. Bringing Kobe and Durant into this is unnecessary. Most won't consider
[b]Kobe GOAT, not even Jabar,

not when he played alongside a point guard who's easily top 5.
He's not competing with Kobe.
Your "you've not stated anything he does wrong enuf or not good enuf" is quite childish. I am sorry to say that. In the GOAT conversation people bring up the 9 straight argument. Nice but losing 6 of them doesn't help your case. Second best is what you are.
In the Cleveland series in 2015,

your guy averaged almost 36 points/game with [b]40% FG%.[/b] You would assume he was spectacular until you look at the FG%.
All you have done here is sing his praises, which is expected. It doesn't help him in the GOAT conversation though. Sorry, it is what it is.

First bolded; kobe has a lot to do with it becos most of you that abuse lebron's lagacy, praise kobe for winning almost as much finals as he appeared in.
5victories in 7 attempts.
Also cos he is more clutch than Lebron.

Meanwhile you abuse lebron cos he won 3finals at some point in like 9attempts.

So kobe is my reference to your hipocracy.

That's what he has to do with it.

Let's assume that neither of them is the GOAT, cos jordan owns that crown.

KOBE AND JABAR are in that conversation on lots of people's lips.
Also pls jabar had a lot more better career than both magic and lebron. I place him above both.

I finally agreed to place him far ahead of LeBron.

How many team leader's would score above 40% FG with his best 2 teammates being injured against a team that had 4allstars, if you add IGUODALA and Draymond to Klay and Steph.

All four top players had reasonable roles against Only lebron in that series both offensively and defensively and you expected him to make more that 40% FG.

I watched every minute of that 2015 series life and to me it was the hardest finals that any top player had ever faced.

Also mind you, lebron's strongest-hold isn't SCORING-INDEX.
HE has never been a TOP5 to TOP7 best natural scorers in the NBA.


But when you look at other areas of his game, he has been the best in general for past 10years.

benji93:
He didn't kill the Clippers cos they never met in the playoffs. That was an expectation. I seriously doubt your basketball knowledge for bringing this up.
You don't get it man. You can be great and still not be the GOAT. That means there are levels to greatness.
Ofcourse, AD can dominate on both ends of the court and still not be the finals MVP. Domination is not equal to MVP, especially when you have another dominant player beside you.
You are making it seem as if you are making some solid fresh arguments, with your "embelebe treatment" and friendly-slaps. No you are not man.

He killed the team that killed the clippers. Everyone expected the clippers to dominate la out of the west.

benji93:
Not as good as Hakeem i am afraid. Sorry, for me nobody touches Hakeem. . He would be in the GOAT conversation if not for the sparsely talented pool of players he played with. And please when comparing people, do not use as good as, then to an extent. I have no idea what that means. Besides, i am not arguing those points on Durant. The series is looking like a sweep, i am only hoping Giannis gets angry enough to make it interesting.

See, the legwork and post works snt a signature move by durant.

Make do it like once in 5games

But when he doesn't it, it could be as good as hakeem.

I'm not talking of how many times he does it, I'm saying how based on few times he did it, he did it soo well like it's a signature move.


I can say TO AN EXTENT and AS GOOD AS, cos everything here is based of opinions of several people.

It's SUBJECTIVE.


I can say TO ENTENT, DURANT has postmoves as good as Hakeem when needed


Or scores as EFFICIENTLY AS PRIME MCGRADY.

No you are not listening. I am saying do not use as good as and to an extent in the same sentence. To an extent is kind of "not as good as". But well when he does it, it looks really good and fluid. No argument.

nairamaniac:



See, the legwork and post works snt a signature move by durant.

Make do it like once in 5games

But when he doesn't it, it could be as good as hakeem.

I'm not talking of how many times he does it, I'm saying how based on few times he did it, he did it soo well like it's a signature move.


I can say TO AN EXTENT and AS GOOD AS, cos everything here is based of opinions of several people.

It's SUBJECTIVE.


I can say TO ENTENT, DURANT has postmoves as good as Hakeem when needed


Or scores as EFFICIENTLY AS PRIME MCGRADY.

First bolded: Most of who? If what you were saying was true, Kobe would be in the GOAT conversation. But wee he isn't. I do not know where you got that from. Perhaps you heard or saw that somewhere and assume it was an argument of most.

I am trying to avoid insulting you man. Kobe is not in the GOAT conversation, so using him as a reference is not useful here. You are not listening and that's quite sad.
Second bolded: Abuse? Please use you the correct words in this context. Saying someone lost 6 finals is not an insult. A knock perhaps.
Third bolded: Which lots of people? Man in which world do you live in? And please do not use some too? It's not a useful word. The question is what does an average NBA fan, reporter, journalist think? You could call ten people randomly and no single one of the will take KOBE as the both.

4th Bolded: Iguodala wasn't an All-NBA player at that point. Properly contextualize your words/statements. Elite defensive player perhaps. Besides Klay and Curry only made it into their second All-NBA selection that year and Draymond his first. They were not Perennial all NBA players then.

Last bolded: Ofcourse most people think is saying he's not been the best player for at least half of the last 10 years. That's not the argument. I have made that very clear. The argument is that he's not the GOAT. I don't know why you cannot udnerstand this.

nairamaniac:


First bolded; kobe as a lot to do with it becos most of you that abuse lebron's lagacy praise kobe for wining as almost as much finals as he appeared in.
5victories in 7 attempts.
Also cos he is more clutch than Lebron.

Meanwhile you abuse lebron cos he won 3finals at some point in like 9attempts.

So kobe is my reference to your hipocracy.

That's what he has to do with it.

Let's assume that neither of them is the GOAT, cos jordan owns that crown.

KOBE AND JABAR are in that conversation on lots of people's lips.
Also pls jabar had a lot more better career than both magic and lebron. I place him above both.

I finally agreed to place him far ahead of LeBron.

How many team leader's would score above 40% FG with his best 2 teammates being injured against a team that had 4allstars, if you add IGUODALA and Draymond to Klay and Steph.

All four top players had reasonable roles against Only lebron in that series both offensively and defensively and you expected him to make more that 40% FG.

I watched every minute of that 2015 series life and to me it was the hardest finals that any top player had ever faced.

Also mind you, lebron's strongest-hold isn't SCORING-INDEX.
HE has never been a TOP5 to TOP7 best natural scorers in the NBA.


But when you look at other areas of his game, he has been the best in general for past 10years.

You said he killed the Clippers. That was false information. Do not distort a fact to suit your argument.

nairamaniac:


He killed the team that killed the clippers. Everyone expected the clippers to dominate la out of the west.

benji93:
First bolded: Most of who? If what you were saying was true, Kobe would be in the GOAT conversation. But wee he isn't. I do not know where you got that from. Perhaps you heard or saw that somewhere and assume it was an argument of most.

I am trying to avoid insulting you man. Kobe is not in the GOAT conversation, so using him as a reference is not useful here. You are not listening and that's quite sad.
Second bolded: Abuse? Please use you the correct words in this context. Saying someone lost 6 finals is not an insult. A knock perhaps.
Third bolded: Which lots of people? Man in which world do you live in? And please do not use some too? It's not a useful word. The question is what does an average NBA fan, reporter, journalist think? You could call ten people randomly and no single one of the will take KOBE as the both.

4th Bolded: Iguodala wasn't an All-NBA player at that point. Properly contextualize your words/statements. Elite defensive player perhaps. Besides Klay and Curry only made it into their second All-NBA selection that year and Draymond his first. They were not Perennial all NBA players then.

Last bolded: Ofcourse most people think is saying he's not been the best player for at least half of the last 10 years. That's not the argument. I have made that very clear. The argument is that he's not the GOAT. I don't know why you cannot udnerstand this.

I just realized that me and you agree on somethings

Like "LEBRON NOT BEING THE GOAT".

But the fact that he isn't the Goat, doesnt mean he is Leflop or Lebum.

If he has been a flop or bum for past 10yeard, then every other player has been worse than a flop or bum for past 10seasons.

My reference to iguodala and draymond were not for that 2015 season alone.

They both made the all stars at some certain points in their careers.
And they played some significant minuites along with 2 of the best shooters nba had ever had in klay and curry against Lebron who carried the majority of the offence on behalf of kyrie and kelvin Love.


Loosing 6finals is not a knock.

He only undeniably flopped in one finals he met the mavs. Having not developed a jumpsuit.

Last Last, we are both right about one thing; He is not the Goat.


But neither is he a bum or flop as you depict him, irrespective of if it's just once in a lifetime or a million times.

First bolded: You referred to 2015. Man you cannot define what happened in 2015 by what happened after that year, at least in terms of All-NBA selection. Why would anyone do this. Quite disappointing. Besides most of the Leflop argument is with respect to the fact that he unnecessarily exaggerates hits. You clearly do not understand the history behind some of the names people call Lebron here. Read and understand. O pari.

nairamaniac:


I just realized that me and you agree on somethings

Like "LEBRON NOT BEING THE GOAT".

But the fact that he isn't the Goat, doesnt mean he is Leflop or Lebum.

If he has been a flop or bum for past 10yeard, then every other player has been worse than a flop or bum for past 10seasons.

My reference to iguodala and draymond were not for that 2015 season alone.

They both made the all stars at some certain points in their careers.
And they played some significant minuites along with 2 of the best shooters nba had ever had in klay and curry against Lebron who carried the majority of the offence on behalf of kyrie and kelvin Love.


Loosing 6finals is not a knock.

He only undeniably flopped in one finals he met the mavs. Having not developed a jumpsuit.

Last Last, we are both right about one thing; He is not the Goat.


But neither is he a bum or flop as you depict him, irrespective of if it's just once in a lifetime or a million times.

nairamaniac:
. Giannis is only more physical and athletic than durant.

But durant is the most efficient, most versatile, most fluet scorer since kobe and jordan.

Also, he occupies more space defensively that 90% of players in the nba with his heght and wingspan.

He has more as much scoring moves as Prime-Tracy-Mcgrady.

Shoots as good as Curry to an extent.


Legwork from a post as good as olajuwon.

Leap as high as lebron with that wingspan


Durant would have gotten at least 4 regular season mvp if he had stayed with OKC at the rate he was going.

First time i saw KD, i just thought he was Tmac, with an extra 4 inches plus better shooting. He is the most complete offensive weapon (just scoring) that the league has ever seen.

benji93:
First bolded: You referred to 2015. Man you cannot define what happened in 2015 by what happened after that year, at least in terms of All-NBA selection. Why would anyone do this. Quite disappointing. Besides most of the Leflop argument is with respect to the fact that he unnecessarily exaggerates hits.] You clearly do not understand the history behind some of the names people call Lebron here. Read and understand. O pari.

I clearly said they were ALLSTARS. NOT ALL NBA.

MEANING they had all been allstars at some point or another.

If someone says *the last year lakers had more than 3 all-stars*

U should know he is also refferin to rondo, dwight that had been allstars at some point in their careers, albeit them to have come from the bench.

All the same, u know what I mean. We shouldn't take anything from lebron for averaging 38points pergame in that finals without kyrie and kelvin Love.
The entire firepower from the warriors and their Defence was just too much for him or anyone in his shoes.
After all we all saw his much much better field goal percentage in miami in those seasonfinals when he had healthy Dwane wade and bosh next to him.

I don't think I'm the only one to misunderstand it this way. I always understood it to mean that most people who say this mean *he has flopped in finals at those moments he should have done much better*.

Or it means he isn't as great as his direct fans place him.

Pls someone else should correct me of I'm wrong.

Are those not the reasons some guys here call him Lebum and Leflop.

Khanben:



First time i saw KD, i just thought he was Tmac, with an extra 4 inches plus better shooting. He is the most complete offensive weapon (just scoring) that the league has ever seen.

Totally agree with u.


Just that there was a certain mr. Jordan who I watched in real time from like his 5th season in the nba.


He could easily have averaged 38points per season all thru his career facing double teams, if not some necessary adjustment that needed to be made.

nairamaniac:


Totally agree with u.


Just that there was a certain mr. Jordan who I watched in real time from like his 5th season in the nba.


He could easily have averaged 38points per season all thru his career facing double teams, if not some necessary adjustment that needed to be made.

With the way refereeing is soft nowadays, He'll average almost 50 per game.

Rephidimhomes:


With the way refereeing is soft nowadays, He'll average almost 50 per game.

I swear down.

nairamaniac:


Totally agree with u.


Just that there was a certain mr. Jordan who I watched in real time from like his 5th season in the nba.


He could easily have averaged 38points per season all thru his career facing double teams, if not some necessary adjustment that needed to be made.

He will have to shoot 3s and play against zone defense , double, triple and four box in 1 more often than not That is what coaches now will do to MJ force him to shoot by deploying bigger athletes against him, the simple fact is the average nba player are bigger and faster now.
He will still get his numbers but he will not average 40

nairamaniac:


Totally agree with u.


Just that there was a certain mr. Jordan who I watched in real time from like his 5th season in the nba.


He could easily have averaged 38points per season all thru his career facing double teams, if not some necessary adjustment that needed to be made.

MJ is greatest player, but in the 80s defense were very porous, sometimes you watch games and you do not even understand what they were doing. As for double teams i beg to differ apart from bad boys pistons most teams left him 1v1. Check all of his great shots he never got double teamed because of the illegal defense rules

Khanben:


MJ is greatest player, but in the 80s defense were very porous, sometimes you watch games and you do not even understand what they were doing. As for double teams i beg to differ apart from bad boys pistons most teams left him 1v1. Check all of his great shots he never got double teamed because of the illegal defense rules

I totally disagree.
The pistons were both rough and defensive. That pistons team can't do the same shit in today's nba.

Some teams from late 80's and early 90's were purely and neatly defensive already, like the cavs(late 80's with Ron harper) , celtics,
rockets (with Ralph samson and olajuwan) portland(entire team of 1991/92), rockets and knicks(early 90's).

Jordan was mostly double teamed by all teams with a lot of hand checking being allowed back then.

Fine, he always had a primary defender on him, but the help-defenders were never far away.

And all eyes from the opposing defense were on jordan rather than any of his teammates in his early years.

I personally don't think any player has been has marked as much as jordan and iverson in the history of NBA.

You can add shaq to the mix of jordan and iverson.

But shaq wasnt to prevent his scoring. It was to get him to the freethrow line so he misses his shots.

@nairamarley abi Na nairamaniac, you have proven to me that the pinnacle of your cognitive intelligence can’t lace the sole of my presumed stupidity. Rather than ask questions or read about the positions of people, you jumped on my mention like an emotionally traumatized Bum all day..

It may have taken the entire day but I am grateful to @benji93 for going through the pains of educating you and helping you finally understand some of your construed thoughts. Like he said “ read and learn”.. Rather than being emotional about something you have 0 understanding about, ask questions, research positions before jumping into mentions. Just when I thought I had encountered the most emotional and effeminate member of the Bum squad, this one pops his head out. In the words of the great John Herik Clarke “I only debate my equals, the rest I teach”.

I try very hard to keep my debates and conversations on this forum very civil and respectable because we never know who is behind the other screen. I will resist the temptation to reel in the gutters of mediocrity with you. I have engaged the best heads of the Bum squad on this thread on numerous topics including minds like @Weissvonner and his numerous handles…

This thread is big enough, I respectfully ask that you miss my mentions going forward if you can’t keep your rabid emotional tantrums in check!

Udo!

nairamaniac:


I totally disagree.
The pistons were both rough and defensive. That pistons team can't do the same shit in today's nba.

Some teams from late 80's and early 90's were purely and neatly defensive already, like the cavs(late 80's with Ron harper) , celtics,
rockets (with Ralph samson and olajuwan) portland(entire team of 1991/92), rockets and knicks(early 90's).

Jordan was mostly double teamed by all teams with a lot of hand checking being allowed back then.

Fine, he always had a primary defender on him, but the help-defenders were never far away.

And all eyes from the opposing defense were on jordan rather than any of his teammates in his early years.

I personally don't think any player has been has marked as much as jordan and iverson in the history of NBA.

You can add shaq to the mix of jordan and iverson.

But shaq wasnt to prevent his scoring. It was to get him to the freethrow line so he misses his shots.

Hand checking was only effective against wing players who used post up moves. If you put a Steph or Dame in the 80s with their current skill sets, how do you hand check them? They do not post up at all.

Khanben:



Hand checking was only effective against wing players who used post up moves. If you put a Steph or Dame in the 80s with their current skill sets, how do you hand check them? They do not post up at all

I just watched MJs 55pts game against the Knicks at MSG. Truth of the matter is, a lot of those arguments about how the old timers were allowed to hand check is a lie. They called those things fouls as well. The only major difference is the severity of the punishment. There were a lot of ticky-tacky fouls in the 80s and 90s. MJ is the current GOAT but people should not use propaganda to make him what he was not. Summary is, I agree with you.

Android17:


I just watched MJs 55pts game against the Knicks at MSG. Truth of the matter is, a lot of those arguments about how the old timers were allowed to hand check is a lie. They called those things fouls as well. The only major difference is the severity of the punishment. There were a lot of ticky-tacky fouls in the 80s and 90s. MJ is the current GOAT but people should not use propaganda to make him what he was not. Summary is, I agree with you.

Thank you. Another thing, this narrative that losing to the Jordan rules piston 2x is a positive for MJ never ceases to amaze me. I have watched at least 3 of those games and for the life of me i never understood why he did not pass the ball especially when he gets 3 guys coming at him(IMHO it shows his inability to see the bigger picture for 2 whole seasons). The truth is if Magic or Lebron was in that team instead of MJ the bulls probably beats the Pistons at least once in those 2 series

W. Barton makes such a big difference for this Nuggets team.

At some point the league has to do something about the barrage of 3 PTS attempt we are seeing in the league today.

This Suns team are not joking..They have continued to play with a lot of pace on both ends.

Congratulations to R. Gobert as he wins his 3rd defensive player of the year..

Well deserved, Mark Eaton will be proud and smiling from the heavens.

The help defense by the Suns is stifling the Nuggets..

CP3 is a big PROBLEM! Man is just ripping the Nuggets into shreds..

The Nuggets need to solve the CP3 problem else this series will be over in Denver, worst case game 5. He is cutting them into bits and it almost looks like he has drugged the entire. If gets team.

The Suns/ CP3 are seeking MPJ out with the P/R switch. He absolutely has to improve his defense because this is not the first time opponents are seeking him out..

When it rains, it pours!

The entire state of Colorado have to show up for the Jazz in game 3.. They are going to need all the home support and noise they can generate because this Suns arena has stayed loud from the tip off..

Big credit to Coach M. Williams..