emae009:


Going back to the history of Ballon d'Or, they always prioritize individual performancea over collective. In the past if you check, you'd see people that won a lot with their clubs but were snubbed for the award because individually the winner was better.

In the 21st century, if that patterned was followed, Messi would have been winning it almost every time so after partnering with FIFA to award the FIFA Ballon d'Or, their priority changes as FIFA awards gives more weight to international competitions.
If we leave sentiment asides and judge squarely based on facts, France Football are actually tweaking the system to afford other players a chance to win the award.

Just take a look at the 3 criterias they use to judge. There's no one season that Messi wouldn't have a legitimate claim to the award base on those criterias

The underlined is not exactly true.

If FIFA prioritized International Competitions, Messi won't win the 2010 FIFA Ballon d'Or where he didn't score a goal at the World Cup...at the expense of Sneijder/Iniesta.

paulolee:

ballon d or is a brand thats bigger than any individual player, team or league and their boycott means nothing bcox they are million players dt are dieing to win one..
the whole of Africa with his talents n footballs since inception gat only one winner tells u how prestigious d award is..
EPL is the best league and its players hardly wins or even get nominated n dey would gladly lead dt boycott bt dey dnt care about it bcox its an individual award n all award gat flaws since it involves sentiments..
for ur info, leo gat 54 goals in 2016 bt lost to cr7 with 48 goals bcoz he won d UCL and leo kept silent..
also in 2018 Leo had an insane 51 goals n 26 assit in just 54 games n still finished 5th below cr7, modric, mbappe, n even griezman which looked like a joke to his performance bt he jus ignored DM n didn't blast d organizers or mention boycott...
d point is dt, if u dnt like how d system works wen it dnt favors you, jus ignore them bcox table do turn it can work for u tomorrow...
cr7 also enjoyed d controversial system in 2013 wen e won with d help of blatter without a trophy ahead of Ribery dt won all trophies....dey wan less noise n we all moved on

oga, what you don't know is that there is chances for bias of even among the organizers, the award was won by Ronaldo in 2016 because he won the champions league and euro along with his individual performance, in 2018 modric won it even when Ronaldo and modric were team mates at real, both won the champions league and Ronaldo had more stats but modric was exceptional at the world cup helping his team to the finals, if messi could win it with poor champions league and laliga performance last season by fc Barcelona surely one must conclude that the award fell into wrong hands a and just like 2010 the same person benefited from the wrongness associated with the organisers.

naija1stnigar:
Despite the heroics of Wesley sneidger in 2010 he wasn't even named among the top 3 the award went to messi who lost in the champions league semis to sneidger's inter Milan who eventually became the champion, messi's Argentina were baldly defeated 4-1 by Germany in the quarter finals of the 2010 world cup while sneidger's Netherlands were runners up, now, the same is almost repeating itself all to messi's favour, this is an indication that the award has lost his credibility and no serious player should judge his performance on whether or not he was nominated.

you cry about Sneijder when all he did was be in the team that won. Milito that was scoring goals don't get the recognition.
2018. Like you said the gave to Modric exactly like the 2010 scenario and you guys complained Ronaldo was cheated.
what do you people really want

emae009:


you cry about Sneijder when all he did was be in the team that won. Milito that was scoring goals don't get the recognition.
2018. Like you said the gave to Modric exactly like the 2010 scenario and you guys complained Ronaldo was cheated.
what do you people really want

I can see you are a little boy, who was the king of assists in the whole of Europe in 2010, did you know what sneidger did with Netherlands at the world cup? Did milito even played at the world cup at all? Go and find out more about these before you come and argue.

fergie001:

I will take both together....
Messi is a great whether or whether not he had won the Copa, but he can never be Maradona. Maradona is a god, even in Argentina you will be told that. Ronaldo is a great and a legend in the game as well....take nothing from it.

Those three you mentioned won something neither Messi nor Ronaldo has won.

The Ballon d'Or is an European Award that was expanded in 1995. It is open to only Journalists from member nations and the fact remains that in the last years, it has been at the discretion of the Journalists because Messi and Ronaldo defies logic.

There is no requirement(s) for winning a Ballon d'Or tbf. UEFA Cup Winners Cup can give you Ballon d'Or.

If Rivaldo's Copa gave him Ballon d'Or in 1999, you forget he won the La Liga as the second highest goalscorer with 24 goals.

Again, Owen won the UEFA Cup with Liv in 2001 and won the BD'Or..he beat Raul who won the league with Real and beat Kahn who won the UCL and Bundesliga in same year.

Ronaldo who won the 2013 edition defeated Ribery who won the treble. NB: He didn't win the la Liga same year.

Just like many others including those who played the game, I believe the winner should have gone to Lewy.....but it has been given to Messi, no one needs to cry about it. One thing I know for free is that Lewy will be top 2 next year again.

Even Barca Great, and a former winner- Johan Cruyff said back in 2012 or 2013; that it has become a popularity contest where Journalists vote for their friends.

I will leave you with Nedved's statement when he was asked to make a speech after winning the BD'Or in 2003....."If I am voting, I will vote Thierry Henry, I think he deserves it."

Klopp just called AFCON that have more teams a "little tournament".....

Ballon d'Or since it's inception was always for individual performance above the collective.
If they had still follow that priority in the 21st century, Messi would have won more than 7. By now, people won't even be attending the show.
The whole crinkum crankum scenario we're seeing now is that they try to tweak the system of criterias they now use so that others have a fair chance of winning.
In 2021 which is under review, without sentiment, Messi deserved to be crowned the winner.
Lewandowski was the sure bet in 2020 and there's no argument from anybody. But it was canceled. Messi didn't caused it. It wasn't something that was pre-planned.
Saying Lewandowski should be given this year for last year unfortunate scenario is just a sympathy scenario.
You don't stop giving the kid that top his class the first position simply because he has topped the class one too many times..
If Lewandowski doesn't win it next year or isn't given last year as France Football are contemplating, then he will just be one of the unfortunate ones not to win. There are a lot of all time greats in that category.

[quote author=OJEEMAH post=108103864]As long as they are still putting on their sentimental lenses, they will never understand why Messi deserved to win.

Always talking shit as if Messi doesn't have the stats and trophies to back his win.

If Messi was a European and he won La liga Top scorer, Copa Del Rey, Euros, Player of the Tournament & Top scorer, would the hypocrite had spew this crap??

When Ronaldo De Lima & Rivaldo won FIFA Best by winning Copa America 97 & 99, it wasn't a 10 teams tournament but anything Messi wins automatically becomes irrelevant..................jokers!!

Messi & Lewy fumbled in the UCL. Messi covered his abysmal performance in UCL with his CA win and performances while Lewy couldn't do same with Poland, knowing its a year for int'l tournaments and it will play a major role in deciding the winner.

Balon D'or should look for a way to present 2020 award to him cos most people dey confuse his 2020 achievements with 2021.

same people that didn't question why Messi f

naija1stnigar:
I can see you are a little boy, who was the king of assists in the whole of Europe in 2010, did you know what sneidger did with Netherlands at the world cup? Did milito even played at the world cup at all? Go and find out more about these before you come and argue.

please back your statements with facts abeg.
so assists should be considered too when judging for the winner right.
Please let's continue because I can bet you anything that when we get to the bottom of this gist, the only outcome will be that Messi deserved his 7th Ballon d'Or

OJEEMAH:
Yes, I have seen it and i am sorry to disappoint you as i happen to find myself in this category of people you just referred to as zombie here.

Zombie cos we share different view

No hard feelings.....nothing personal just my decision

You found yourself?


How?


I wish there was a God that my brother could get help from at least....


He was wrongly detained last year and he's been suffering a lot ever since....



I think these things show life doesn't make sense....

If confused is a person it definitely will be Darren Bent for sure. Man is bringing up the past two seasons of Lewandowski into his argument and still comfortably said it is not robbery that Messi won it. No be juju be that?

emae009:

I don't know the collective you talk about but....

Even if we bring same scenario.....You still think Messi was better than Lewandowski this year?

...because you think he didn't win anything at the Euros after clearing out domestic titles?

I will reference you to 2004... EUROS took place same year.

If you think it is individual.....Justify why Ribery didn't win Ballon d'Or in 2013?

Fact is Ronaldo and Messi have re-defined the criteria...and Journalists are prone to their own biases.

emae009:


please back your statements with facts abeg.
so assists should be considered too when judging for the winner right.
Please let's continue because I can bet you anything that when we get to the bottom of this gist, the only outcome will be that Messi deserved his 7th Ballon d'Or

what was the rationale behind modric's win in 2018? Assists for both club and country, he scored lesser goals compared to Ronaldo and messi but through his assists he took real and croatia on his shoulders to both the champions league trophy and world cup finals.

When football is mentioned England should not put mouth

naija1stnigar:
what was the rationale behind modric's win in 2018? Assists for both club and country, he scored lesser goals compared to Ronaldo and messi but through his assists he took real and croatia on his shoulders to both the champions league trophy and world cup finals.

There was no rationale

That is wrong

There were hundreds of rationales
because hundreds of people voted from over 100 countries
Each person had their own rationale
This year 3 people voted from Nigeria including Rohr the coach and Ahmed Musa
They are all different with different preference
To try to reduce it to one rationale is dishonest and futile
Let us not us not pretend that there is any rationale to choosing Eba over Semo

It is just human preference

aribisala0:


There was no rationale

That is wrong

There were hundreds of rationales
because hundreds of people voted from over 100 countries
Each person had their own rationale
This year 3 people voted from Nigeria including Rohr the coach and Ahmed Musa
They are all different with different preference
To try to reduce it to one rationale is dishonest and futile
Let us not us not pretend that there is any rationale to choosing Eba over Semo

It is just human preference

if there is no rationale then the award has no value, probably that was why messi won in 2010 and this year.

naija1stnigar:
oga, what you don't know is that there is chances for bias of even among the organizers, the award was won by Ronaldo in 2016 because he won the champions league and euro along with his individual performance, in 2018 modric won it even when Ronaldo and modric were team mates at real, both won the champions league and Ronaldo had more stats but modric was exceptional at the world cup helping his team to the finals, if messi could win it with poor champions league and laliga performance last season by fc Barcelona surely one must conclude that the award fell into wrong hands a and just like 2010 the same person benefited from the wrongness associated with the organisers.

bros we know say ojoro go always dey am...my point be say why una de blind wen e favor cr7 but dey shout wen e turn to messi?

[quote author=fergie001 post=108114044]
I will take both together....
Messi is a great whether or whether not he had won the Copa, but he can never be Maradona. Maradona is a god, even in Argentina you will be told that. Ronaldo is a great and a legend in the game as well....take nothing from it. Those three you mentioned won something neither Messi nor Ronaldo has won.

The Ballon d'Or is an European Award that was expanded in 1995. It is open to only Journalists from member nations and the fact remains that in the last years, it has been at the discretion of the Journalists because Messi and Ronaldo defies logic.

Remember, the decision to expand was because FIFA World Best was more recognized.

There is no requirement(s) for winning a Ballon d'Or tbf. UEFA Cup Winners Cup can give you Ballon d'Or.

Like you said, there's no requirement for winning the Balon D'or. If UEFA Cup Winners Cup is enough to win Balon D'or, why not Copa America??

If Rivaldo's Copa gave him Ballon d'Or in 1999, you forget he won the La Liga as the second highest goalscorer with 24 goals.

How did he manage to defeat Beckham that won treble, if it wasn't Copa America??

Again, Owen won the UEFA Cup with Liv in 2001 and won the BD'Or....he beat Raul who won the league with Real and beat Kahn who won the UCL and Bundesliga in same year.

and who was recognized as the World Best Player in that year? Figo!
If UEFA Cup Winner Cup was prestigious then, why didn't FIFA crown or even nominate Owen? Raul lost the Balon D'or to owen but got FIFA nomination for World Best and Owen didn't even make top 3......This shows UEFA Cup cannot determine who emerges FIFA Best.

Ronaldo who won the 2013 edition defeated Ribery who won the treble. NB: He didn't win the la Liga same year.

which means there's no pattern to this thing even though some of us have limited it to winning trophies and goals.

Just like many others including those who played the game, I believe the winner should have gone to Lewy.....but it has been given to Messi, no one needs to cry about it. One thing I know for free is that Lewy will be top 2 next year again.

2020 was Lewandoski's award to win and i also do not have any iota of doubt about him winning or making top 2 next year.

Even Barca Great, and a former winner- Johan Cruyff said back in 2012 or 2013; that it has become a popularity contest where Journalists vote for their friends.

You and i know this award is by vote, if Messi emerges winner, should the organizers switch vote to favour Lewandoski??

I will leave you with Nedved's statement when he was asked to make a speech after winning the BD'Or in 2003....."If I am voting, I will vote Thierry Henry, I think he deserves it."

Good..... In 2004, Ronaldinho defeated Henry to win FIFA World Best. He didn't win the UCL. He won La liga just like Henry won the EPL unbeaten and statistically, Henry absolutely had no match in Europe. Fergie, by now you should know, you are one of the few persons in this section whose opinion i respect so much. What will you say about that??

fergie001:

The underlined is not exactly true.

If FIFA prioritized International Competitions, Messi won't win the 2010 FIFA Ballon d'Or where he didn't score a goal at the World Cup...at the expense of Sneijder/Iniesta.

Cannavaro in 2006 with Ronaldinho not making the top 10.

OJEEMAH:
As long as they are still putting on their sentimental lenses, they will never understand why Messi deserved to win.

Always talking shit as if Messi doesn't have the stats and trophies to back his win.

If Messi was a European and he won La liga Top scorer, Copa Del Rey, Euros, Player of the Tournament & Top scorer, would the hypocrite had spew this crap??

When Ronaldo De Lima & Rivaldo won FIFA Best by winning Copa America 97 & 99, it wasn't a 10 teams tournament but anything Messi wins automatically becomes irrelevant..................jokers!!

Messi & Lewy fumbled in the UCL. Messi covered his abysmal performance in UCL with his CA win and performances while Lewy couldn't do same with Poland, knowing its a year for int'l tournaments and it will play a major role in deciding the winner.

Balon D'or should look for a way to present 2020 award to him cos most people dey confuse his 2020 achievements with 2021.

same people that didn't question why Messi finished 5th in 2018 despite having the best individual stats dey complain as if anybody told them the award is for any player that scored the highest number of goals

See 2016 & 2018 stats and Messi lost

You said nothing but pure thrash. Lewy has been magnificent in the last 2 years and deserves it. He scored more goals than messi and trophy wise he got more trophies this year than Messi. Don't try to make it poland and Argentina comparison.

Numerouno94:


That snake guy is the numba culprit. Check out most Obembet's posts against Messi, she tags him alone nd
as soon as she tags him boom!! it's on frontpage.

What are they scared of? if not inferior complex, why do they have to hide Messi thread just to promote Ronaldo??

This is a silent vendetta against Messi fans by the MODs

emae009:


Cannavaro in 2006 with Ronaldinho not making the top 10.

Yes, that means you agree with me that .....Messi and Ronaldo define the criteria;

2010 and 2014 are examples.

fergie001:

I don't know the collective you talk about but....

Even if we bring same scenario.....You still think Messi was better than Lewandowski this year?

...because you think he didn't win anything at the Euros after clearing out domestic titles?

I will reference you to 2004... EUROS took place same year.

If you think it is individual.....Justify why Ribery didn't win Ballon d'Or in 2013?

Fact is Ronaldo and Messi have re-defined the criteria...and Journalists are prone to their own biases.

Your last statement might be truth probably.
But a lot of people keep confusing 2020 with 2021.
Chelsea won UCL in 2021
Dortmund won the DFB Pokal Cup in 2021
what Bayern won was the Bundesliga league title and the German Super Cup for this year.
So Lewandowski didn't clear out the domestic titles.
The way I see it, in an international competition year, the international tournament carries more weight than the UCL which carries more wight than League titles which carries more weight than domestic cups.

Lewandowski won league title and domestic cup while scoring more goals which is the only individual statistics he's better than Messi.

Messi won a domestic cup with an international tournament while beating others in every individual stats bar goals.
so yes it was a close call but Messi was just better in the end.

There was an argument about this on ESPN, four pundits where going on about how Lewandowski deserved it until an international journalist joined them and he said something in the line of, each journalist chosen to vote have to present their Top 5 with each position getting a piont value. Then he revealed that an English Journalist chosen to represent English chose Jorginho as his #1. The reason he revealed that was to point out that not everyone just went with Messi or Lewandowski as their top pick.
Afterwards these journalists are gathered together in Paris and the points of each player is tallied. The highest tally wins.

so if we drop sentiment and sympathy of Lewandowski not winning last year which was canceled due to Covid, Messi fully deserved to win

Numerouno94:


The Mods re running this forum like a one man's show nd like it's their personal property. Give an average Nigerian power nd he bcoms tyrannical over night. I don't really blame them, i blame Seun for giving them such a free hand to run Nairaland like it's their personal business.

same technically bias people go still dey blame Buhari for their misfortune......hypocrisy at its peak

I tink the only way this ugly trend culd b nipped in the bud is to have a periodic change of mods.

I jux hope Seun is not really a part of this show of shame. I really hope so.

Hopefully

KillIgbohoN0W:
[s][/s]

Lewandowski outperformed Messi in every tournamment they participated in.

He won more titles. He won his league, outscored Messi too.

What else do you want to know?

.

fergie001:

Yes, that means you agree with me that .....Messi and Ronaldo define the criteria;

2010 and 2014 are examples.

To some extent yeah. Because of how good they are individually which is one point I was trying to make. If Ballon d'Or is still solely on individual performance as it was in the early days, each year will feature both of them so to give others a fair chance emphasis of what to look for the most is flexible each year.

if we want to dissect both year. The opinion that the rightful people were overlooked for the awards will just be pure sentiment.

paulolee:

bros we know say ojoro go always dey am...my point be say why una de blind wen e favor cr7 but dey shout wen e turn to messi?

as if Rinaldo was even among the best 3 this year, now, please mention to me one time Ronaldo received the award out of corruption and I will mention 3 times messi did.

You can also download to get latest I.T tools
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naija1stnigar:
what was the rationale behind modric's win in 2018? Assists for both club and country, he scored lesser goals compared to Ronaldo and messi but through his assists he took real and croatia on his shoulders to both the champions league trophy and world cup finals.

I was looking for Sneijder stats from 2010.
anywho,
it's not a fact per say but in an international competition year, those tournaments takes priority. Each year when Messi was overlooked the rationale behind it was he didn't perform with Argentina and was popularly accepted.
So Ronaldo didn't perform with Portugal.
Modric "captained" Croatia to the World Cup final (that's sentimental in football, David fighting against Goliath sort of). His stats wasn't great either.
They both won the UCL.
If you look at 2018, the line up was greatly influenced by the world Cup and people were happy to accept it.

so I don't see why when we had Copa America and Euros, the importance given to those tournaments should change because Messi won finally

naija1stnigar:
if there is no rationale then the award has no value, probably that was why messi won in 2010 and this year.

You are entitled to your opinion
One could argue that Football as a whole has no value (another opinion)
That is the nature of human existence , most of it does not have any clear rationale
What is the rationale of a comedy show?
What is the rationale of sport?
The point is there is NO ONE RATIONALE. there are as many rationales as there are people for much of what people do
With respect your opinion makes no difference to what has been done

OJEEMAH:
Remember, the decision to expand was because FIFA World Best was more recognized.

The decision to expand the BD'or was because it was exclusive to Europeans...the reason the likes of Pele, Maradona didn't win it.
It changed in 1995....first recipient was George Opong Weah, who won both the world player of the year and BD'Or.

Even in South America today, if you are not playing in the South American league, you can never win the South America Player of the Year. The likes of Ronaldinho, Tevez won it before they headed for Europe. Messi can't win it because he doesn't play there.

The BD'Or is a thing of prestige but to me, I might be biased, won't outshine the world player of the year... The BD'or is respected because it started in the 50s, you won't compare that to FIFA's that started in 1991.

Like you said, there's no requirement for winning the Balon D'or. If UEFA Cup Winners Cup is enough to win Balon D'or, why not Copa America??

I don't belittle the Copa. You answered the question yourself, as you regard the AFCON as a little tournament. You do the same thing you accuse me of. Weah was crowned Africa' best player in 1989 and 1995.

How did he manage to defeat Beckham that won treble, if it wasn't Copa America??

Again, Utd's win in 1999 was a team sport and not Beckham's team. He had absolutely no stat in that Competition, unlike Rivaldo who single-handedly carried that team. I gave you an example of Owen years later. Even Jorginho won the UCL & Euros, yet nobody see am.

and who was recognized as the World Best Player in that year? Figo!
If UEFA Cup Winner Cup was prestigious then, why didn't FIFA crown or even nominate Owen? Raul lost the Balon D'or to owen but got FIFA nomination for World Best and Owen didn't even make top 3......This shows UEFA Cup cannot determine who emerges FIFA Best.

That is why the Ballon d'Or is different from FIFA's award.
Ballon d'Or is for selected journalists while FIFA is by Club Captains and Coaches.
Even the Ballon d'Or in 2001....Figo wasn't top 3 either. Figo instead won in 2000 when Barca didn't win anything (lost the league, lost icl, Portugal lost the Euros).
What about Ronaldo who won Ballon d'Or & fifa best in 2014 without winning nothing. No league, no UEFA Cup, no UCL.

which means there's no pattern to this thing even though some of us have limited it to winning trophies and goals.

There was some pattern until Ronaldo & Messi came around.

You and i know this award is by vote, if Messi emerges winner, should the organizers switch vote to favour Lewandoski??

Votes by journalists, and we know how those in the media make things their own way.

Was it not the same way....FIFA re-opened votes, months after it had closed, after Ribery had clearly won in 2013?

Good..... In 2004, Ronaldinho defeated Henry to win FIFA World Best. He didn't win the UCL. He won La liga just like Henry won the EPL unbeaten and statistically, Henry absolutely had no match in Europe. What will you say about that??

There is so much that is attached to a winner. The PR itself is massive so FIFA will tell you they have no regrets not giving it to a Sneijder, Iniesta, Nedved, Shevchenko or Henry.

I am happy you are asking the question, Barca were at the UEFA Cup in 2004, lost out. Lost the league to Valencia yet Ronaldinho was FIFA best.

Will you compare Arsenal to a Barcelona?

If Carnavaro had remained with Juve after Calciopoli, will he have won the World Best?

If Modric had remained with Tottenham after that fantastic World Cup performance, will he have won the fifa best and Ballon d'Or?

You can answer these questions yourself. Messi won this award because he is Messi who plays for Barcelona (and not PSG).

naija1stnigar:
Despite the heroics of Wesley sneidger in 2010 he wasn't even named among the top 3 the award went to messi who lost in the champions league semis to sneidger's inter Milan who eventually became the champion, messi's Argentina were baldly defeated 4-1 by Germany in the quarter finals of the 2010 world cup while sneidger's Netherlands were runners up, now, the same is almost repeating itself all to messi's favour, this is an indication that the award has lost his credibility and no serious player should judge his performance on whether or not he was nominated.

Are you for real? what exactly did Sneijder do? abi you just join people wey think say Sneijder deserve Balon D'or cos inter won treble??

Have you ever asked why his teammate, Milito won Inter, Seria A & UEFA Player of the Year ahead of Sneijder?

Sneijder's performance was barely average with 4 league, 3 UCL and 3 or 4 Wc goals.

Most people are not aware of his average performance..........their opinion is based on the treble inter won.

In 2010, Messi was UCL and European Golden Boot winner and he also won La liga Player of the Year. He lost UEFA Player of the Year to Milito not because Milito was better but he won the competition with Inter.

He won La liga, Copa Del Rey, UEFA Super Cup & Club World Cup with Barcelona.

On individual stats (Goals + Assists), Sneijder was no match for Messi.......Messi wonn everything he won except the UCL.

His stats were poor thats why he didnt make top 3........Iniesta is the only person that could have challenged Messi not Sneijder.

You can research more on Sneijder and you will discover how average he was.

Balon d'or should find a way and gift lewandowski his 2020 award Biko.
Penaldians are spreading confusion upandan, especially to those huu no sabi play n' no sabi watch.

emae009:



The way I see it, in an international competition year, the international tournament carries more weight than the UCL which carries more wight than League titles which carries more weight than domestic cups.

Is that how those that vote see it?

From Nigeria 3 people voted one of whom was the coach Rohr and another Ahmed Musa


There is no point trying to rationalize the emotional
It is like trying to rationalize falling in love

First reconcile with the fact that

The award was determined by voting
There is nothing rational or systematic about how the hundreds of people who voted made their choice
This year there was 7 points between 1st and 2nd which underlines the fact that people were voting based on preference and not any criteria that you imagine. It was a close vote but ultimately it came down to sentiments and you cannot legislate for that