Precolonial map of Benin kingdom/empire:


https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin%20royaume?rk=107296;4

Also it is getting tiring to see the unrelenting efforts of Yoruba and Igbo to devide the Edo people. Let me make this clear: Benin Kingdom/empire was a large country and its capital is Benin city, there are many other cities in it.

Edit. "Devide" not "decide"

So it is completely stupid to attempt to seperate the people of Benin city (capital of Benin kingdom/empire), from the people from other parts of Benin kingdom/empire. In case you don't know, the people in the capital of any country are related to all those in every corner of the country, indeed in every country in this world, the capital is a melting pot of people from all over the country. Just take a look at Abuja, Paris, Berlin, London...

Reminder: Oba is to Benin kingdom/mpire what Oni is to Ife kingdom. Oba is to Benin empire what king is to the UK. Oba is to Benin kingdom/empire what Roi is to the kingdom of France... Oni title belongs to Ife, Alafin title belongs to oyo, and Oba title belongs to ... Benin !

Christistruth03:



The Crown with the Cross on it was a gift from the King of Portugal to Olu Domingo in the 17th Century
Olu Sebastian was the first known Nigerian Graduate.He Graduated from university in Portugal in the 17th Century he was also the Acting Ambassador for Benin and Warri Kingdoms to Portugal at the same time

The Itsekiri have had at least 5 Catholic Kings including Olu Domingo (Atunwase1) who was half Portuguese and his Son (Domingo 2)

If not for the Slave Trade the Itsekiri were supposed to be at the forefront of Christianity in Nigeria

Olu Sebastian's Son, Olu of Warri Domingo 1 was Sincere in his Christian faith and appealed to the King of Portugal to send him Missionaries that were not distracted by the filthy Business of the Slave Trade but were Truly out for Purely Soul winning alone
But the Missionaries sent from Portugal missed the road and ended up in Benin Instead of Warri, and the Oba of Benin politely sent them back

Benin had the oldest church in Nigeria as a whole and a street named at the Pope (Via Papa) now called Akpakpava Street in Benin. When did Prince Ginuwa leave Benin to become Ogiame of Ewere/Iwerre/Warri?

When did Europeans first reach Benin? Oba Esigie was baptised by 1504 just upon becoming king. He was a Christian nominally before that already. Esigie son (Orhogbua) was at Portuguese Royal military Academy in Lisbon, educated and was a Christian. He learned naval sailing from the Portuguese.

Domingo was in Lisbon by 1600. Orhogbua was in Portugal almost 100 years earlier.

By 1480s, King John II of Portugal already established strong links with Oba Ozolua of Benin. Oba Ewuare had already welcomed the Portuguese even before that.

Why do you think Oba Esigie had muskets (guns) from Portugal to fight Idah people in 1515-1516 War? Only Christian Kings/foreign rulers were given the new deadly weapon to use in war.

Oba sent them back politely in which year? Please be careful what you write in a public forum.

Dancebreaker:


Benin had the oldest church in Nigeria as a whole and a street named at the Pope (Via Papa) now called Akpakpava Street in Benin. When did Prince Ginuwa leave Benin to become Ogiame of Ewere/Iwerre/Warri?

When did Europeans first reach Benin? Oba Esigie was baptised by 1504 just upon becoming king. He was a Christian nominally before that already. Esigie son (Orhogbua) was at Portuguese Royal military Academy in Lisbon, educated and was a Christian. He learned naval sailing from the Portuguese.

Domingo was in Lisbon by 1600. Orhogbua was in Portugal almost 100 years earlier.

By 1480s, King John II of Portugal already established strong links with Oba Ozolua of Benin. Oba Ewuare had already welcomed the Portuguese even before that.

Why do you think Oba Esigie had muskets (guns) from Portugal to fight Idah people in 1515-1516 War? Only Christian Kings/foreign rulers were given the new deadly weapon to use in war.

Oba sent them back politely in which year? Please be careful what you write in a public forum.

Benin accepted Christianity just for the idah war ,
Esigie with few chief's were hurrily baptised, the acceptance of Christianity was for the Portuguese military support
The Portuguese refuse to give benin guns until benin is a fully converted to a Christian kingdom, esigie who was willing to, but majority of the chief's frowned at the moves, they eventually baptised oba esigie and some few chiefs on the promise that after the war his full royal cabinet wil be converted and guns will be given to beninas to protect themselves, but after the war many other Europeans started visiting benins were willingly to give benin guns and the project was abandon

Dancebreaker:


Benin had the oldest church in Nigeria as a whole and a street named at the Pope (Via Papa) now called Akpakpava Street in Benin. When did Prince Ginuwa leave Benin to become Ogiame of Ewere/Iwerre/Warri?

When did Europeans first reach Benin? Oba Esigie was baptised by 1504 just upon becoming king. He was a Christian nominally before that already. Esigie son (Orhogbua) was at Portuguese Royal military Academy in Lisbon, educated and was a Christian. He learned naval sailing from the Portuguese.

Domingo was in Lisbon by 1600. Orhogbua was in Portugal almost 100 years earlier.

By 1480s, King John II of Portugal already established strong links with Oba Ozolua of Benin. Oba Ewuare had

already welcomed the Portuguese even before that.

Why do you think Oba Esigie had muskets (guns) from Portugal to fight Idah people in 1515-1516 War? Only Christian Kings/foreign rulers were given the new deadly weapon to use in war.

Oba sent them back politely in which year? Please be careful what you write in a public forum.

How many Oba of Benin were Christians

There have been at least 5 some even say 8 Olu of Warri that were Catholics

Including Olu Sebastian, Olu Domingo 1 and Olu Domingo 2 and it was genuine

Christianity not just for show

Just read the letter of Olu Domingo pleading for Missionaries to be sent to him so his People could be converted to Christ

It was a very genuine appeal

Oba of Benin was more interested in Purchasing Firearms from the Portuguese and the Portuguese

had Laws that prevented them from selling firearms to none Christians

If you read Olu Domingo’s letter he mentions the Episode that the Missionaries the king of Portugal

Sent him went to Benin instead of Warri and were Politely sent back by the Oba of Benin

Olu Domingo mentioned that by the time he heard about it they had already left Benin and returned to Portugal

Then he went on to mention that the Kingdom of Warri was often confused with the kingdom of Benin

Which was a very true Statement, because even their Yoruba brethren saw the Warri Kingdom as an a outpost of Benin
even though the Itsekiri were Yoruba Speaking

though the Kingdom of Warri was an independent kingdom in its own right

Christistruth03:




How many Oba of Benin were Christians

There have been at least 5 some even say 8 Olu of Warri that were Catholics

Including Olu Sebastian, Olu Domingo 1 and Olu Domingo 2 and it was genuine

Christianity not just for show

Just read the letter of Olu Domingo pleading for Missionaries to be sent to him so his People could be converted to Christ

It was a very genuine appeal

Oba of Benin was more interested in Purchasing Firearms from the Portuguese and the Portuguese

had Laws that prevented them from selling firearms to none Christians

If you read Olu Domingo’s letter he mentions the Episode that the Missionaries the king of Portugal

Sent him went to Benin instead of Warri and were Politely sent back by the Oba of Benin

Olu Domingo mentioned that by the time he heard about it they had already left Benin and returned to Portugal

Then he went on to mention that the Kingdom of Warri was often confused with the kingdom of Benin

Which was a very true Statement, because even the Yorubas saw the Warri Kingdom as an a outpost of Benin
even though the Itsekiri were Yoruba Speaking

though the Kingdom of Warri was an independent kingdom in its own right

What led to the inter-regnum in the Oluship from 1856-1936? That will help towards shedding more light on the independence that you mentioned. Why did Oba Akenzua and grandfather of this current Olu place a curse on Itsekhiri people that this current Olu said he was reversing during his coronation? Why was that same Olu (granddad of current one) given 14 coronation beads by Oba Akenzua to crown the next 14 Olus of Warri, something current Olu used to partly claim validity when the old crown was stolen? Watch his coronation speech.

Dude, today we all do our own things independently but let's not twist history. It is well-known.

As for Christianity, you judge that Benin's own was for show. Many people became Christian in Iberia due to Spanish Inquisition. By force. Christianity became established in the West due to politics. Emperor Constantine wanted to use the religion of very obedient people (innocent people ready to die for their faith without much resistance, just the type of citizens ready to die him that he desired) to control Roman Empire.

The same people appealing to Domingo were the same that brought big time slave trade, so how genuine were even the Portuguese as Christians, never mind those they were converting?
Like Constantine, European kings at the time used Christianity for politics. Obas of Benin probably saw through that. They were in Portugal before anyone else.

Some argue that Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313 stopped killing and persecution of Christians, returned their seized assets to say how genuine his faith was. No experts/scholars believes that.

Breaking news: Constantine unbanned all religious sects, cults and groups. Not just Christianity. It was a much wider political move.

Oh by the way, as far as we can tell, Oba of Benin is the only King in West Africa who is also head of a native Christian Church, the Holy Aruosa Cathedral in Benin. Like King Charles II is the head of the Anglican church. Benin's long history means it has found ways to indigenise Christianity. Long before Aladura, Cele and others came along.

An indigenous church that has existed for centuries, long after guns for battles matter have gone, stand as a testament like a rock.
You know black man trying to be holier than the pope, like you have indicated in your post will also find another excuse.

Dancebreaker:


What led to the inter-regnum in the Oluship from 1856-1936? That will help towards shedding more light on the independence that you mentioned. Why did Oba Akenzua and grandfather of this current Olu place a curse on Itsekhiri people that this current Olu said he was reversing during his coronation? Why was that same Olu (granddad of current one) given 14 coronation beads by Oba Akenzua to crown the next 14 Olus of Warri, something current Olu used to partly claim validity when the old crown was stolen? Watch his coronation speech.

Dude, today we all do our own things independently but let's not twist history. It is well-known.

As for Christianity, you judge that Benin's own was for show. Many people became Christian in Iberia due to Spanish Inquisition. By force. Christianity became established in the West due to politics. Emperor Constantine wanted to use the religion of very obedient people (innocent people ready to die for their faith without much resistance, just the type of citizens ready to die him that he desired) to control Roman Empire.

The same people appealing to Domingo were the same that brought big time slave trade, so how genuine were even the Portuguese as Christians, never mind those they were converting?
Like Constantine, European kings at the time used Christianity for politics. Obas of Benin probably saw through that. They were in Portugal before anyone else.

Some argue that Constantine's Edict of Milan in 313 stopped killing and persecution of Christians, returned their seized assets to say how genuine his faith was. No experts/scholars believes that.

Breaking news: Constantine unbanned all religious sects, cults and groups. Not just Christianity. It was a much wider political move.

Oh by the way, as far as we can tell, Oba of Benin is the only King in West Africa who is also head of a native Christian Church, the Holy Aruosa Cathedral in Benin. Like King Charles II is the head of the Anglican church. Benin's long history means it has found ways to indigenise Christianity. Long before Aladura, Cele and others came along.

An indigenous church that has existed for centuries, long after guns for battles matter have gone, stand as a testament like a rock.
You know black man trying to be holier than the pope, like you have indicated in your post will also find another excuse.

I dont know what you both are trying to pride on

But the pride of benin came from that western influence couldn't infiltrate our culture not until nigeria started demonzing our religion


Our forefathers stood against western influence, they didnt welcome their writing of text we got ours artworks for documentation, we used them for our wars, we traded as equal men , Christianity
Couldnt penetrate us until after independence


So if you guys are priding on mediocrity then i am sorry you both are just not well read

If europe had influenced benin you think even the white men would cherish our culture today

So why are you both priding on who the whitemen influenced with Christianity the most

Edeyoung:



I dont know what you both are trying to pride on

But the pride of benin came from that western influence couldn't infiltrate our culture not until nigeria started demonzing our religion


Our forefathers stood against western influence, they didnt welcome their writing of text we got ours artworks for documentation, we used them for our wars, we traded as equal men , Christianity
Couldnt penetrate us until after independence


So if you guys are priding on mediocrity then i am sorry you both are just not well read

If europe had influenced benin you think even the white men would cherish our culture today

So why are you both priding on who the whitemen influenced with Christianity the most

That is what you don't get. Every great empire did not live in a vacuum but adapted. Religiously, technologically, socially, etc. The Greeks took good things like knowledge, art, medicine from Egypt, the Romans took from the Greeks and Rome spread education and culture to Western Europe as we now know it worldwide. So your talk of pride in Western influence is due to poor knowledge because the trinity story and creation story began in Egypt. That is where Moses (educated by the best scholars in Pharoah's palace) learnt everything he later wrote. Trinity story built on that by Christians later.
So don't use your shallow knowledge to judge other's underlying thoughts.

Constantine adopted Jewish religion. Jews were not white as they came to be mixing with Europeans after 70AD.
May be you are the one obsessed with white people.

Whatever outside influence came, use of musket guns to overpower enemies, or whatever, Benin knew how to retain own history and culture. Like any truly great nation.

Dancebreaker:

That is what you don't get. Every great empire did not live in a vacuum but adapted. Religiously, technologically, socially, etc. The Greeks took good things like knowledge, art, medicine from Egypt, the Romans took from the Greeks and Rome spread education and culture to Western Europe as we now know it worldwide. So your talk of pride in Western influence is due to poor knowledge because the trinity story and creation story began in Egypt. That is where Moses (educated by the best scholars in Pharoah's palace) learnt everything he later wrote. Trinity story built on that by Christians later.
So don't use your shallow knowledge to judge other's underlying thoughts.

Constantine adopted Jewish religion. Jews were not white as they came to be mixing with Europeans after 70AD.
May be you are the one obsessed with white people.

Whatever outside influence came, use of musket guns to overpower enemies, or whatever, Benin knew how to retain own history and culture. Like any truly great nation.

Youre just talking of how europe influenced themselves, if europe influenced themselves what pride would a black man get from that

If africans influenced themselves the pride would be for Africans only the black skin ....


You speak of egypt that is not purely a black man civilzation ,

Is either you're a teenager or you dont know how the world works and youre obviously mentally enslaved


Stop priding with a whiteman thing youre just downgrading yourself and your people

The benin comes from the fact they never saw the whitemen above them , they fought them traded with them as equal , never accepted their religion

But here you're trying to downgrade them, with your pride for who got more influence the most

I would assume youre a teenager, if youre not sorry

Edeyoung:



Youre just talking of how europe influenced themselves, if europe influenced themselves what pride would a black man get from that

If africans influenced themselves the pride would be for Africans only the black skin ....


You speak of egypt that is not purely a black man civilzation ,

Is either you're a teenager or you dont know how the world works and youre obviously mentally enslaved


Stop priding with a whiteman thing youre just downgrading yourself and your people

The benin comes from the fact they never saw the whitemen above them , they fought them traded with them as equal , never accepted their religion

But here you're trying to downgrade them, with your pride for who got more influence the most

I would assume youre a teenager, if youre not sorry

I actually consider that an honour to be seen as a teenager. But I wish our teenagers knew Graeco-Roman and Egyptian history, To understand your African history (especially as much was not written down) you need to understand how others operated contemporarily because a king as an Ogiso or whatever they actually called themselves in Benin in 313 AD faced many similar challenges as Constantine in Rome. You have clearly never done comparative history.

Your rather shallow understanding is that Africa had nothing in common with other races back then. Simply because you seem not to know.

You said Egypt was not purely black. What is pure black? Charcoal black like many Sudanese Nubians? Those fair skinned people from Igboland and Edo, fairer than many ancient Egyptians, are impure blacks?

The more you argue, the more you reveal a warped notion of being black that is very narrow and ultimately a disservice to Afrocentrism.

Black Pharaohs and their families are clearly represented in statues. If you haven't been there, go and visit and learn. Whatever the hue of their skin, they were Africans and black. Arabs from Saudi or some place now living in African lands will not tell me otherwise.

Dancebreaker:


I actually consider that an honour to be seen as a teenager. But I wish our teenagers knew Graeco-Roman and Egyptian history, To understand your African history (especially as much was not written down) you need to understand how others operated contemporarily because a king as an Ogiso or whatever they actually called themselves in Benin in 313 AD faced many similar challenges as Constantine in Rome. You have clearly never done comparative history.

Your rather shallow understanding is that Africa had nothing in common with other races back then. Simply because you seem not to know.

You said Egypt was not purely black. What is pure black? Charcoal black like many Sudanese Nubians? Those fair skinned people from Igboland and Edo, fairer than many ancient Egyptians, are impure blacks?

The more you argue, the more you reveal a warped notion of being black that is very narrow and ultimately a disservice to Afrocentrism.

Black Pharaohs and their families are clearly represented in statues. If you haven't been there, go and visit and learn. Whatever the hue of their skin, they were Africans and black. Arabs from Saudi or some place now living in African lands will not tell me otherwise.

I never said anything about the density of eyptian blackness, egypt civilzation isnt just black africans
Alone its a mixture of greek, romians and african
That is what i mean about Egyptian not a pure black african civilization, because you can as well see atatue of white look pharaoh Egyptian

All what you wrote up there wasnt necessary

Stop downgrading benin or any african civilzation by on how far the western influence penetrated society


See as the both of you up there rushing to fight over who first accepted western Christianity between edo and itsekiri
Damn

ufotunang:
...speed wetin?...I reject it 🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️

That's like basic mode of transportation in riverine areas. You'll enjoy it. Quite cheap too. Like 3k you're good to go.

Edeyoung:



I never said anything about the density of eyptian blackness, egypt civilzation isnt just black africans
Alone its a mixture of greek, romians and african
That is what i mean about Egyptian not a pure black african civilization, because you can as well see atatue of white look pharaoh Egyptian

All what you wrote up there wasnt necessary

Stop downgrading benin or any african civilzation by on how far the western influence penetrated society


See as the both of you up there rushing to fight over who first accepted western Christianity between edo and itsekiri
Damn

Did the whole of Africa not eventually adopt Christianity and Islam? Benin used it to its advantage including securing vital modern weapon with it to beat the enemy. And then indigenise it and set the terms of how to worship in it, not from Rome or anywhere else.
Today Muslim kings across 9ja are religiously under the Sultan. Oba of Benin has own Church, not under Rome, not under Canterbury. So your trying to be woke as if you are so proud of African religion while others are not is childish. It shows a poor understanding of political and war strategy of the kings of Benin in the South Eastern part of West Africa/Bight of Benin from the second half of the 15th century.

Every argument you come up with just shows how little you understand it. Come off your high horse attempt and wokeness.
Obas were way smarter, they thought ahead before others even back then.

NothingDoMe:
That's like basic mode of transportation in riverine areas. You'll enjoy it. Quite cheap too. Like 3k you're good to go.

....no does delta shark and crocodile in the water will chop me..🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️

ufotunang:
....no does delta shark and crocodile in the water will chop me..🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️🏃🏿‍♂️

Mostly deep sea. Na mangrove creek we go follow.

Theplotter:


Yeah
That is what we made you believe.
But we know that a yoruba man is ruling you.

The day you accept that he is a Yoruba man, you will no longer see him as your king. You will try to reinstate the ogiamen(descendants of the Ogisos) and we Yorubas will never let that happen.

We will rule Benin till Jesus come.

What you just said might be the most twisted statement which. I have ever heard.

1) there is nobody on earth whom is more Edo than the Oba of Benin, indeed unlike most Nigerians, the Oba of Benin's ancestors were witnessed by Europeans in the 1400's. And the Oba was already sitting on his imperial throne in his capital (Benin city). His vassal (Olu of Warri) was actually the first to meet the Europeans, but sent them to the emperor from whom the Olu derived his authority.
2) ogiamen is a well known imposter and traitor, indeed the ogimens collaborated with the British during the 1897 war between Benin and Britain which resulted in the looting and burning of Benin city. One of the very few houses in Benin city which didn't get burnt by the British was that of their ogiamen collaborators.
3) ogiamen has clearly alligned himself with Yoruba supremacists who claim the Oba of Benin is a Yoruba. The Yoruba supremacists boost the ogiamen claim and the ogiamen boosts the Yoruba supremacist claim.
4) our ancestors couldn't read or write and had no access to papers and pens, so how in god's name was any treaty signed between us?
5) it is only people with very poor education who can actually believe that the Oba of Benin could be anything other than an Edo, does your ancestry go back 600 years ? Well, only the Oba of Benin and perhaps two other monarchs in Nigeria have an ancestry which goes back 600 years. So it is foolish for you to claim "Oba of Benin is Yoruba". His ancestry of more than 600 years clearly says he is the most Edo man on earth.
6) how far does the Oni of Ife's ancestry go ?
7) how far does your ancestry go ?
8 ) you don't even know your true origin nor that of the Oni of ife (slave descendent, Sudanese migrant, indigenous local...), what is known, however, is the origin of the Oba of Benin, and it is Benin empire, in the capital of the empire.