InvertedHammer:
/
The difference is clear especially in the scope of practice.

The author is mainly pandering to nurses.

Did you read where he compared the experience of floor Nurse to "interns"? Unbelievable!

If need be, the author should compare interns and nursing students because both groups are still under training.

\

I thought I was the only one that noticed that.
Talk about grasping at the straw.

ItsMeAboki:


What the article was clearly trying to say was that in recent times there is an increasing convergence in the roles of nurses and doctors, especially in view of enhancements in the academic content of their training, where some can even become Phd holders.
The article also gave experience as another factor for this convergence of roles, citing examples of task shifting e.g. giving prescription, surgical intervention etc.

Much as you may want to disagree; experience certainly always counts in any profession or life activity and can't be dismissed as you flippantly did.

It won't even surprise me, if by chance you are doctor, that you might have learnt a thing or two from some of the nurses in the ward during your housemanship - the fact is, no body has a monopoly of knowledge, even the teacher sometimes learns from his student.

Remember, the story of Dr. Christian Bernard, the first to successfully transplant the human heart (a white South African during Apartheid regime); well it was later revealed that towards the end of his career he was secretly allowing his black attendant (who had no formal medical training whatsoever) to assist him and eventually take over some the transplant operations.
Dr. Bernard was having difficulty moving his fingers due to arthritis and felt confident enough to entrust such procedures to his attendant because the latter had acquired the required skill, over the years through the practical experience of watching and gradually assisting - and there are similar parallels here too in Nigeria.

Why not compare a nurse intern to a doctor intern, and experienced nurse to an experienced doctor? Everything is wrong with comparing Sb in the lowest cadre to another in the highest cadre, in different professions.
Again, if a nurse likes, let her get PhD, it's still not the same content as to what the doctor studies. Different curriculum, roles, etc.

Many nurses learn stuff from doctors too.

DollyParton1:

Y'all like to butter up things though.
Pharmacists help Doctors choose the appropriate drugs? Really

Are you actually a practicing doctor?

Whichever way you look at it, pharmacists determine to a large extent the drugs that the doctor prescribes.

Most of the drugs they prescribe are recommended to them by pharmacists who are medical reps of pharmaceutical companies.
All it takes is for the pharmacist to organise a Powerpoint presentation for the doctors, introduce a drug to them or tell them why they should prescribe a particular drug and the next day, you see them prescribing it.
For instance, a doctor may have been used to prescribing erythromycin for a particular illness but along the line a med. rep comes and tells him that azithromycin is a better choice since it is an improvement upon erythromycin with better pharmacokinetic profile and better tolerated, then he starts prescribing azithromycin. I have seen this times without number.
Now tell me, who influenced the doctor's choice? Is it not the pharmacist?

I have seen doctors asking the pharmacists opinion on the best drug to use for certain patients.
Also, the pharmacists influence to a large extent the content of essential medicine list in the hospital

There are also situations where pharmacists design the drug regimen for cancer treatment (chemotherapy) with the doctor.
You obviously haven't heard of that i guess.

One major problem with Nigerian healthcare system is lack of exposure among the members of the team and ignorance of the capabilities of each member of the team by the other members.
Our healthcare system needs to grow up!

mumumugu:
doctors have bad hanwritin

nurses have good handwriting

lol

eleojo23:


Are you actually a practicing doctor?

Whichever way you look at it, pharmacists determine to a large extent the drugs that the doctor prescribes.

Most of the drugs they prescribe are recommended to them by pharmacists who are medical reps of pharmaceutical companies.
All it takes is for the pharmacist to organise a Powerpoint presentation for the doctors, introduce a drug to them or tell them why they should prescribe a particular drug and the next day, you see them prescribing it.
For instance, a doctor may have been used to prescribing erythromycin for a particular illness but along the line a med. rep comes and tells him that azithromycin is a better choice since it is an improvement upon erythromycin with better pharmacokinetic profile and better tolerated, then he starts prescribing azithromycin. I have seen this times without number.
Now tell me, who influenced the doctor's choice? Is it not the pharmacist?

In a sane clime, a drug rep cannot just walk into your office and recommend a drug to you and you just take it like that. The example you gave is a marketing/advertising strategy.
I think it's better to always clarify things from the go. Based on your initial post, an average person would think Doctors run their prescribing decisions through the pharmacists most time.

I have seen doctors asking the pharmacists opinion on the best drug to use for certain patients.
Also, the pharmacists influence to a large extent the content of essential medicine list in the hospital

It is appropriate for a doctor to ask for a pharmacists or nurses opinion if the need for it arises. That's why it called an health team.

Yea Pharmacists can influence the contents of essential medicine in an hospital because it is part of their job description

There are also situations where pharmacists design the drug regimen for cancer treatment (chemotherapy) with the doctor.
You obviously haven't heard of that i guess.

One major problem with Nigerian healthcare system is lack of exposure among the members of the team and ignorance of the capabilities of each member of the team by the other members.
Our healthcare system needs to grow up!

In reply to your last two paragraphs, I had my medical training in an European country. So yea, I do know and I have been involved in what you are talking about.

And yea I know of cases where only the pharmacists can give the go ahead on a doctors prescription (I actually thought you would use that as a point in your argument, but maybe you have not heard of it )

Definitely a "myopic" write up--- I won't agree to this just like most of my colleagues won't --- it's well known that other health professionals, paramedics and even quacks do a lot of treatments and even surgeries these days -- buh doctors that know their onions always know who is who, ot[b][/b]her health professionals aswell know who is who-- they eventually refer to doctors or run to doctors for help once they run into trouble, I've seen enough of these in my 3 years of medical practice -- [/b]note pls, Medicine is both art and science, the art could be easily learnt and practiced by anyone, but the science is always exclusive to doctors [b]-- in summary, no one is and island, we should all work together to Bettter our patients health -- shalom

Before you guys start reaching a different conclusion on this article, an article is only meaningful within the context it was written.

Nigeria does not have Nurse Practitioners, unlike in the US where it is an advanced nursing degree.

Also despite what the writer tries to portray,nurse practitioners work under a supervising doctor. There are many procedures that doctors perform that they are not licensed to perform.

Being a doctor is not just about examining a patient and writing medications.

panasharp:
Definitely a "myopic" write up--- I won't agree to this just like most of my colleagues won't --- it's well known that other health professionals, paramedics and even quacks do a lot of treatments and even surgeries these days -- buh doctors that know their onions always know who is who, ot[b][/b]her health professionals aswell know who is who-- they eventually refer to doctors or run to doctors for help once they run into trouble, I've seen enough of these in my 3 years of medical practice -- [/b]note pls, Medicine is both art and science, the art could be easily learnt and practiced by anyone, but the science is always exclusive to doctors [b]-- in summary, no one is and island, we should all work together to Bettter our patients health -- shalom

You are quite empty and it is embarrassing that you call yourself a doctor. You lack knowledge,exposure and humility and your grammar is terrible.

Lagusta:
You all should remember that this article is talking about AMERICAN NURSES and NURSE PRACTICIONERS, who are nurses that have undergone advanced training to the extent that they can now diagnose common ailments and prescribe drugs, since doctors are scarce everywhere....

Please NEVER compare a foreign trained nurse to one nurse that finished from school of nursing.....

The only nurses I really give respect and regards are the graduate nurses, they went to the university, did a five year course, learned the real art and practice of nursing, there their training can be at par with the American nurses...

All other auxiliaries and those lazy "school of nursing" nurses need to take a chill pill......

This is an unfortunate block head. Can you just appreciate and respect the efforts of someone in life at least for once! Imagine how you took a swipe at someone who burnt the midnight oil to become a nurse; too bad. You have to learn and show respect to everyone in their respective fields. The nurse needs the doctor just as the doctor needs the nurse. Please do not demoralize one for the other.

What a piece!!

TheSuperNerd:
"The Experienced Floor Nurse knows way more about medicine than the average Intern"
...........

Yep.... I have always supported that thought because it's so true generally.

I'm no nurse but I have come to appreciate the whole perspective of healthcare.

...........


Doctors need nurses. Nurses need Doctors too. It's a whole team effort.

You wanna know a very good and awesome doctor? It's that Doctor that the nurses have genuine respect (not fear) for.

If as a doctor, your nurses don't really regard you, then my friend, you gotta problem.

..........

The "in-depth knowledge" and in some cases "Theatre and in-depth diagnosis skills" is what actually separates the doctors from the nurses.... But nurses with advanced degrees and very good experience can also give great diagnosis as good as any super knowledgeable doc... #Fact

Well trained Nurses also are generally very good researchers and can sometimes put up a better research approach to a medical case than some doctors.

And hey! In Nigeria for instance, what we see most times is the Doctor rolling in, taking a look at the patient chart, spending few minutes with the patient to observe and then he jots a few notes and gbam!!! Off he goes... Sometimes it works good but at other times, that's just plain silly.

It is the Nurse who spends time observing and watching changes in the patient and alerts the doctor to those changes.
In Intensive care, it's the nurse taking note of changes in levels of different blood parameters and more in the patient's system.... What most doctors do is just act on what the nurses have observed.

WE SHOULD BE APPRECIATIVE OF THE NURSES AND THE STRESS THEY GO THROUGH TO PROVIDE CARE FOR THE WHOLE MAN.
...............


Here's a final drop to ponder:

Nurses are taught most of the Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology, Pathology and many more just like we Doctors/young Docs..... And then they are taught actual "Nursing" as pertaining whole/complete patient care.

But Docs are taught Anatomy all the way up to medical ethics and surgery, medicine and more BUT NO SINGLE CLASS ON "NURSING" as pertaining whole patient care... #foodForThought

Let's learn to appreciate the role of all in healthcare... We are a team even though we know the Specialist Doctor is the leader of any healthcare team as pertaining patient care.... But let's not always make it so obvious. IT'S FOR HUMANITY WE TOOK THIS OATH, NOT FOR POWER TUSSLE.

#peace

God bless you!

I think it's better to always clarify things from the go. Based on your initial post, an average person would think Doctors run their prescribing decisions through the pharmacists most time.

I think you did not get what I wrote initially. I said the pharmacist CAN help the doctor choose the appropriate medication. I didn't say that the pharmacist ALWAYS helps the doctor to choose...
I think anyone who understands English should know that the two doesn't mean the same thing so don't worry that people will think less of doctors because of that statement

DollyParton1:


And yea I know of cases where only the pharmacists can give the go ahead on a doctors prescription (I actually thought you would use that as a point in your argument, but maybe you have not heard of it )

Regarding this last point of yours, I am aware of that. I just don't have all the time to spell out all the job descriptions of a pharmacist here.

Anyway, it's good to know that you are aware of most of the things I mentioned in my post.
Pardon my hasty conclusion on the status of your exposure.

Have a good day.

Spirit1:
Before you guys start reaching a different conclusion on this article, an article is only meaningful within the context it was written.

Nigeria does not have Nurse Practitioners, unlike in the US where it is an advanced nursing degree.

Also despite what the writer tries to portray,nurse practitioners work under a supervising doctor. There are many procedures that doctors perform that they are not licensed to perform.

Being a doctor is not just about examining a patient and writing medications.

Nurse practitioners do not always work under a supervising doctor that is not true.Some are independent totally and make or receive referrals. Your assertion

an article is meaningful ONLY within the context it was written

Look at those words again and reflect on them. The word ONLY defines that sentence and makes it ridiculous.
Is a textbook meaningful ONLY within the context within which it was written.

The entire evidence base of medicine would collapse without WRITTEN ARTICLES that often transfer across "contexts".
One thing I know about Nigerian doctors especially those still in Nigeria or recently left is they make very categorical and assertive statements that are often false and lack scientific underpinning and they do not understand the concept of intellectual humility, the practice of saying "I don't know" and admitting that while doctors may know a lot(there are others who do too) , there is a lot more that they do not know. The Nigerian doctor gets most of his knowledge from READING and not from research or any scientific endeavours ,as such the quality of knowledge is as good as the quality of the read material and yet there is no culture of inquiry about how stuff gets into books. coupled with exams that ask TRUE or FALSE questions many fall into the trap of believing everything they read like robots with little capacity for reflection or critical thinking.
The truth is MBBS is just a paper. You have to sharpen the knife every day and if you don't you lose your edge and RELEVANCE.There is a turf war going on in the health industry and the reality is the sum total of what most doctors do can be broken down in bits and done by someone else. It is not impossible to imagine a world without doctors as we know them. Certainly those doctors whose daily practice only involve prescribing, ordering investigations and examination should be very worried about their future

nurses are most important group in hospital. no hospital can function without nurses.

McDoe:


This is an unfortunate block head. Can you just appreciate and respect the efforts of someone in life at least for once! Imagine how you took a swipe at someone who burnt the midnight oil to become a nurse; too bad. You have to learn and show respect to everyone in their respective fields. The nurse needs the doctor just as the doctor needs the nurse. Please do not demoralize one for the other.

And who are you to call me a block head??

Did I abuse or insult anyone here

Please dont insult me again please, respect yourself....

DollyParton1:

You know nothing about what you are writing on.
You post reeks of ignorance.

Oya come and school me Missy....

See, I have worked with all nurses in the cadre; mention them. I know what they can do and what they cannot do....

So don't say my post reeks of ignorance, experience talks more....

lebete3000:


And the funny thing is that the graduate nurses dont even give doctors problems at all...They are very cooperative and respectful to docs...it's only the auxiliary nurses and school of nursing dat claim equality with doctors...something about empty barrels making tha loudest noise....

Bro abeg lemme call you so you can hit me up on some I do jarey. ...

Thank you jare, dear colleague....

Imagine someone above me saying my post reeks of ignorance.... LOOOLZ!!!

Abeg I got patients to see....

Felincous:


The wrte up is for d mature mind nd nt for those who do nt even knw d diff btwn anatomy nd physiology

Haaaaa, see this one

You don't know me and you're throwing assumptions....

Please go and drink some orijin bitters......

Lagusta:


Thank you jare, dear colleague....

Imagine someone above me saying my post reeks of ignorance.... LOOOLZ!!!

Abeg I got patients to see....

Twas 9ice talking with you....

DeRay98:


Not all doctors can perform heart surgery, only advanced trained doctors who are usually specialists and consultants in cardiology do.

cardiologist don't perform heart surgeries.

DollyParton1:

Y'all like to butter up things though.
Pharmacists help Doctors choose the appropriate drugs? Really

Yes really, your remark just reveals ignorance or lack of exposure. Really!

FredBloggs:
cardiologist don't perform heart surgeries.

Depends on how you define "surgery"

omonnakoda:
Yes really, your remark just reveals ignorance or lack of exposure. Really!

Errmmm. ... just go take several seats please.

omonnakoda:
Depends on how you define "surgery"

Surgery has many definitions?
Oh say more.

DollyParton1:

Surgery has many definitions?
Oh say more.

I just wondered about YOUR definition because the last time I checked cardiologists do do a few surgical procedures so maybe you have a new definition of what surgery is

....

omonnakoda:
I just wondered about YOUR definition because the last time I checked cardiologists do do a few surgical procedures so maybe you have a new definition of what surgery is

Yea.... In nigeria every doctor is a surgeon.

DollyParton1:

Yea.... In nigeria every doctor is a surgeon.

I am not talking about Nigeria do not change the subject, Is it part of the job description of a cardiologist to perform surgery YES or NO??

omonnakoda:
I am not talking about Nigeria do not change the subject, Is it part of the job description of a cardiologist to perform surgery YES or NO??

There are two types of cardiologists.
No it is not for a cardiologist.
But it is for an interventional cardiologist.

DollyParton1:

There are two types of cardiologists.
No it is not for a cardiologist.
But it is for an interventional cardiologist.

kikikikiki
Go and ask the person who usually beats you at this time to get busy,you need it!!

eleojo23:


Are you actually a practicing doctor?

Whichever way you look at it, pharmacists determine to a large extent the drugs that the doctor prescribes.

Most of the drugs they prescribe are recommended to them by pharmacists who are medical reps of pharmaceutical companies.
All it takes is for the pharmacist to organise a Powerpoint presentation for the doctors, introduce a drug to them or tell them why they should prescribe a particular drug and the next day, you see them prescribing it.
For instance, a doctor may have been used to prescribing erythromycin for a particular illness but along the line a med. rep comes and tells him that azithromycin is a better choice since it is an improvement upon erythromycin with better pharmacokinetic profile and better tolerated, then he starts prescribing azithromycin. I have seen this times without number.
Now tell me, who influenced the doctor's choice? Is it not the pharmacist?

I have seen doctors asking the pharmacists opinion on the best drug to use for certain patients.
Also, the pharmacists influence to a large extent the content of essential medicine list in the hospital

There are also situations where pharmacists design the drug regimen for cancer treatment (chemotherapy) with the doctor.
You obviously haven't heard of that i guess.

One major problem with Nigerian healthcare system is lack of exposure among the members of the team and ignorance of the capabilities of each member of the team by the other members.
Our healthcare system needs to grow up!

Sharrrap.
What pharmacists suggest to doctors are brand names that they market.
Design drug regimens with doctors indeed. In which village?

omonnakoda:
I am not talking about Nigeria do not change the subject, Is it part of the job description of a cardiologist to perform surgery YES or NO??

If a doctor is employed as a cardiologist specifically esp in a teaching hospital , he won't perform surgeries because there will be consultant surgeons to take care of surgery cases while he concentrate on heart diseases.
Before becoming a cardiologist, the resident doctor undergoes rotational trainings in different departments including surgery, there and then, you learn the surgeries and even perform some of them.
So, he is actually equipped to perform it and can do if everywhere and anywhere.
He also graduated with mbbs giving him the license to be able to perform surgeries as far as he can learn the skills.
But no matter what, a non doctor is not licensed to do anything doctors do.
So, compare likes for likes.
So, yeah, a cardiologist is empowered to do anything plus surgeries if the opportunity comes up