My previous blog post is the direct cause of this present rant.

I realize something I seemed to have forgotten in my last post: Atheist and Agnostics demand proof. They cite the lack of self-satisfying empirical proof of God, as the reason why there is no proof of God. And therefore, if there is no proof of a God, then there is no God.

Or at best, no one can know that there is (a) God.

Alas, this shall have to be a short post.

Not because there isn’t much to say, but because saying it usually doesn’t do much good of convincing the atheist/agnostic. My words will be considered a fallacious appeal-to-authority: “its true because so-and-so said its true.” I can see the logic. But I am a Christian in this modern world because I live by a different kind of logic.

(Cue hissing and eye-rolling) The Bible says and I quote:

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

There were two types of Jews surrounding Jesus that day: those who doubted he was the prophesied Christ, and those who believed he was the Christ. The statement was directed at those who had believed. Jesus was encouraging them to stay believers, and pay no attention to the doubters and mockers, unless their faith will wither.

The gospel writer John makes very clear the fact that both the believers and non-believers were often vocal in arguing or disputing that Jesus was the Christ. The writer records some of the things both groups said. In the midst of their lively or heated debate, Jesus would show up and pitch in a word or two of his own. It was against this backdrop that he spoke to those who had decided, seeing the things that he’d done, that he was the savior of the world. He said to them, now that you believe, keep believing, THEN you will know the truth.

Take note of my emphasis. He said you will know the truth if you stay firm in your faith. If you let go of my teaching however (stop believing/waver), you lose out.

You have to steadfastly decide that you will believe God in spite of reason, logic or plausible doubt. Then you will be truly set free.
“… for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord” - James 1:6,7 (edited for emphasis).

So here’s more fallacy to my fallacy. God says, if you don’t firmly believe me (without proof), you will have no proof (none that will impress you anyways). I know. Nobody said it was going to be easy.

When a scientist develops a theory, he begins to experiment, doesn’t he, seeking to prove his theory. So here is a great, low-cost experiment for your scientific mind: Believe. Steadfastly, like a good, non-violent Christian fanatic. Set your own observation parameters. One month, one year, whatever you like. Take a chance with God and believe. “Then you will know the Truth, and He will set you free.”

What do you have to lose by believing?

.

'You have to steadfastly decide that you will believe God in spite of reason, logic or plausible doubt.' - lele007
Says it all.

I sure wish you would give the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER a chance. There is no proof of him either but if you just believe then the beer and blessings will flow in your household.

onetrack:
I sure wish you would give the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER a chance. There is no proof of him either but if you just believe then the beer and blessings will flow in your household.

how dare you say there's no proof for Flying Spaghetti Monster?

the proof is staring you in the face

The OP should give atheism a try. Try to not be biased about your bible, look at Yahweh rationally without making excuses. Let's see if you'll come back to Christianity.
Most atheist were once religious, we've already given God a try. Do the same for atheism.

HCpaul:
I was once a Christian but I left Christianity after testing the [size=14pt]rational status[/size] of your god and come to discover that he ain't qualified and that everything are just devising fables.

Always hiding under the word of rational when in reality they lack rationality.

onetrack:
I sure wish you would give the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER a chance. There is no proof of him either but if you just believe then the beer and blessings will flow in your household.

So you actually believe in something.

Emusan:


Always hiding under the word of rational when in reality they lack rationality.

Na you rational pass Sir

lepasharon:


Na you rational pass Sir

Where did I claim to be

If you Christians can just try and look at your logic nd reasoning you would know how ridiculous you sound.

Mr. A comes with a claim about something

Mr.B says he needs evidence to believe

Mr. A says he must believe that thing is true first before he sees the evidence. Not just believing that it is true for a while but believing it consistently forever.

Now lets examine this scenario

You come to me with a claim about Jesus and your god. I ask for proof and you tell me to believe and that's when proof will be available to me.
Lets say I agree and I now believe for just a while lets say 1 week. I believe wholeheartedly but I don't see proof , then I come back to you for proof and you tell me to never stop believing cos that's when I will see proof.

Can't you see that you are not actually offering any proof but belief now stands in the place of evidence. Belief is not evidence, anything that stems from prior belief is not evidence. That's why its better for you Christians to come out honestly and say that you want people to believe without evidence but just because of the fear of hell.

This is called circular reasoning.
What you are doing is offering me a bet on the afterlife. I should bet on a position with nothing more than confidence or blind faith. In reality, over 4 billion people are also taking their own bets with other gods with just insufficient proof. You Christians are no different.
When you argue with a christian, initially he brings little proof but when you throw more light on it and nail him to an indefensible position, the only thing the Christian can do is to appeal to your blind faith and also threaten you with hell.

Am sorry christards am not a gambler . In life I take calculated risks not ridiculous bets.

Ah, LiberaDeus, how can I deny that I do not see your logic? It makes sense, period.

But.

Recall that there were people who believed in Jesus before they saw a single miracle. All they needed was for john the baptist to point him out: "See, the Lamb of God!", and they followed him. Then there were the Nicodemus types, WHO WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED IF THEY HADN'T SEEN MIRACLES. Nicodemus came to him secretly, because he'd probably criticized him publicly, saying "I know no one can do what you do if it isn't God, but I'm confused" (I paraphrase).

Now here's the thing. God wants you to believe without seeing any miracles, but he has provided for miracles and supernatural signs as well just in case. Jesus said, "believe me when I say that I am in the father and the father is in me, OR AT LEAST BELIEVE ON THE EVIDENCE OF THE MIRACLES THEMSELVES" (John 14:11). I think it is impossible, for anyone who doubts or disbelieves there is a God, to try and carefully and without bias, study claims of supernatural miracles, be it healing or some other manifestation, who will not come to the conclusion that there is life beyond the physical realm.

I suppose you are not familiar with the "Scole Experiment"? You can google it if you truly want to test for the truth about what is out there; I highly recommend it just for your academic stimulation (but take note that what you see there are manifestations of what scriptures call demons, though the experimenters and scientists themselves do not know it).

Bottom line, i believe (sorry) that if an atheist or agnostic, with a truly unbiased mind, calls out to God, he will get satisfactory proof. Because there is so much that God has provided which is not attributable to anything else other than supernatural/superhuman intervention, available in the world today, for the precise purpose of proving that what God says in the Bible is true.

And I dare say there is more to being a Christian than just being afraid of hell. Ha ha!

hopefulLandlord:


how dare you say there's no proof for Flying Spaghetti Monster?

the proof is staring you in the face

You are so right! That is amazing!!!! Thank you for confirming my belief in His Noodliness. The pasta will surely be flowing in my house tonight!

But will the truly lost souls believe? The ones who doubt and deny Him?

lele007:
Ah, LiberaDeus, how can I deny that I do not see your logic? It makes sense, period.

But.

Recall that there were people who believed in Jesus before they saw a single miracle. All they needed was for john the baptist to point him out: "See, the Lamb of God!", and they followed him. Then there were the Nicodemus types, WHO WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED IF THEY HADN'T SEEN MIRACLES. Nicodemus came to him secretly, because he'd probably criticized him publicly, saying "I know no one can do what you do if it isn't God, but I'm confused" (I paraphrase).

Now here's the thing. God wants you to believe without seeing any miracles, but he has provided for miracles and supernatural signs as well just in case. Jesus said, "believe me when I say that I am in the father and the father is in me, OR AT LEAST BELIEVE ON THE EVIDENCE OF THE MIRACLES THEMSELVES" (John 14:11). I think it is impossible, for anyone who doubts or disbelieves there is a God, to try and carefully and without bias, study claims of supernatural miracles, be it healing or some other manifestation, who will not come to the conclusion that there is life beyond the physical realm.

I suppose you are not familiar with the "Scole Experiment"? You can google it if you truly want to test for the truth about what is out there; I highly recommend it just for your academic stimulation (but take note that what you see there are manifestations of what scriptures call demons, though the experimenters and scientists themselves do not know it).

Bottom line, i believe (sorry) that if an atheist or agnostic, with a truly unbiased mind, calls out to God, he will get satisfactory proof. Because there is so much that God has provided which is not attributable to anything else other than supernatural/superhuman intervention, available in the world today, for the precise purpose of proving that what God says in the Bible is true.

And I dare say there is more to being a Christian than just being afraid of hell. Ha ha!

Oga the bible doesn't want you to believe without signs. It is unscriptural.
Jesus wanted Thomas to believe because he had seen signs and wonders.

Jesus even gave his disciples a great commission and told them to perform signs and wonders

In the book of acts of apostles, Paul performed miracles that converted many. Him and silas broke out from a maximum security prison miraculously which led to the conversion of the jailer.

When Israel began worshipping Baal, Elijah made fire come down to convince the Israelites that Yahweh was greater

When Yahweh met Moses he gave him the sign of the burning bush and many other miracles.

Yahweh parted the red sea to convince the Israelites.

I can list many other examples to show you that totally blind faith is not biblical.

The only unfortunate thing is that all the aforementioned stories are mythical. But if they were true and your god was real then its clear that he wants you to show signs and wonders to convince people not urge them with blind faith.

I am an agnostic, if I call out to god with an unbiased mind I will receive no answer. But you can bring tangible proof that shows that it's your god that is the god of this world.

I find this........ Oddly touching.

onetrack:


You are so right! That is amazing!!!! Thank you for confirming my belief in His Noodliness. The pasta will surely be flowing in my house tonight!

But will the truly lost souls believe? The ones who doubt and deny Him?

we just have to keep spreading the gospel FSM told us to spread

save as many souls as possible

may the holy sauce he sent to reveal all things to us continue to give us strength

R'Amen