johnw74:



Jesus angel didn't only show John things, he also gave John witness to the Word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, you are such a deceiver leaving that out




in your rejection of God's word you are lying yet again, and adding to God's word
it is not said John was standing next to an angel when he heard a voice behing him

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:




you mr lie are wallowing in a sea of lies false accusing and confusion

johnw74:


you just say whatever suits you at the time
a liar has no part with God:

1Jn 5:10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.



Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

johnw74:
Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

God gave Jesus revelation, and Jesus sent it to John by His angel


Rev 22:16  I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things ....

Jesus had sent His angel to testify-witness Jesus's God given revelation to John



Rev 1:12  And I turned to see the voice that spake with me ....

when John turned around to see who was talking to him
according to God's word it was Jesus angel

what did Jesus angel testify-witness to John?
A. the revelation that God gave to Jesus, and that Jesus sent to John by His angel

one would think even a blind man could see it, but no, false accusers, liars, and the like, cannot:

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

brocab:
At first this is what I wanted to believe, but with your so called attitude recently mouthing off-I just don't believe it.
I give everybody ago-but calling me a satanist-when I myself believe, I can't be bothered with people like you..
You aren't worth a argument.

brocab:
I had ask you to explain it in your own words-about Revelation-It may have given me some understanding how you see the scriptures, and why you believe John didn't see Christ after turning around. And why don't you believe John had a vision of Christ? All I received from you was your abuse, and gave me no explanation to explain why you believe John didn't see Christ, but only an angel.
By your reactions-I can see you can't explain the scriptures like others can.
I didn't give you a shotgun to shoot me down, I only asked a simple question-could you explain the scripture in your own words.
Ok you aren't a person who can explain words, that's all you had to say, "arguing over nothing-is truly pointless-Your interpretations are right out of hand, Try sitting back, think before you write anything and listen, I could act like you-jumping up and down screaming across the valley, but i would ratter sit down and listen to your abuse and insults you have installed for me, lying to yourself convincing yourself-everyone is your enemy.
Try understanding someone else who are trying to reach out-this isn't the case, it's all about you-you believe no-one understand your level of understanding, try reaching out to somebody, this could help you see something you have never experience nor seen, nor heard, about the Lord.
Abuse is like meeting people on the street, who are really frighten within themselves-they find ways to stop their fear, abuse is to act to protect, putting down the people, is their way, they feel they had won.
You are only upsetting yourself, to be honest is it worth it-abusers are liars-Angry you may feel-didn't the Lord teach you in your bible you must be patient and slow to anger?
Listen if you can't explain the scriptures in your own words don't. I see Revelation as I understand it-John seen Christ in his vision. You believe otherwise, please don't tell me! Jesus is Micheal the archangel.

brocab:
Then stop your lying-and have part with the Lord with all believers, I will sit beside you on the way up into heaven..

brocab:
Come on blind man explain the bible?
{Revelation 1:12-18} you don't because John had a vision of Christ?
Show me in word where John seen the angel standing in the midst of the lambstands and while John was with the angel-who was the other angel that spoke behind John" that sounded like a trumpet-and John fell down as dead, But "He" laid His right hand on John saying do not be afraid I am the first and the last {Verses 18} I am He who lives and was dead and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Hades and of death. In my bible it doesn't say the angel said it is the Lord that said these last words.
Am I hearing you right? you believe John at no time had seen Jesus in Revelation at anytime-the voice behind John wasn't Jesus but an angel of Jesus? And everything that was said: in Revelation isn't Jesus?

johnw74:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

God gave Jesus revelation, and Jesus sent it to John by His angel


Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things ....

Jesus had sent His angel to testify-witness Jesus's God given revelation to John



Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me ....

when John turned around to see who was talking to him
according to God's word it was Jesus angel

what did Jesus angel testify-witness to John?
A. the revelation that God gave to Jesus, and that Jesus sent to John by His angel

one would think even a blind man could see it, but no, false accusers, liars, and the like, cannot:

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

johnw74:


i haven't twisted any of God's word mr lie
and the way of twisters of God's word, liars and false accusers is not up

Rev_20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

brocab:
Is there any love left in you at all?
Maybe you need to read the bible, instead of playing with yourself. Man of fear..

johnw74:


ha ha, lies just flow through you now continually,
i have shown the truth of the scriptures very well, just read back through my posts mr lie,
even though explanation is not necessary, they are very clear, but you mr lie reject God's word for your own

and the rest of your post is just more lying and accusing, and all because i dared to point out you are
rejecting Gods word
well such is the way of satanists as you like to say it, and I do agree with you on that though.

johnw74:


now there is the demonic mind of mr liecab

johnw74:



u mr lie are completely blinded from rejecting the truth,
most people if they didn't understand would at least believe God, but not you

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.



here is just one of the posts where i showed the truth of the verses
go back and read the others to, which you lie and say i never wrote





denying God's word is denying God, and you mr lie are among the worst God deniers in these forums
most are atheists, but you claim to be a child of God, oh blinded and deceived one

johnw74:


i haven't twisted any of God's word mr lie
and the way of twisters of God's word, liars and false accusers is not up

Rev_20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

brocab:
I am now reading this from Revelation made Clear, it say's seeing Jesus and what John saw in {Revelation 1:12-20}
And since you haven't any desire in understanding anything I have said: then to put this all to rest I believe the truth will always reveal itself.
John turns and see who is speaking, when he turns John see's the seven lambstamds.
Verse 1 recalls that these images represent something. This is the book that is written in symbols and we must under stand what the symbols mean, In verse 20 we are told that the seven lambstands present the seven Churches, who were to receive this letter. In the middle of the seven lambstands is one like the Son of Man, {Revelation made Clear} mentioned in there last lesson that the voice of trumpets remind them of {Exodus 19} When there was aloud sound like trumpets as God came to mount Sinai to give the 10 commandments. WE know that the divine is speaking with the additional statement that John see's one like the Son of Man, we know that John see's the Messiah Jesus, recall in {Daniel 7:9-14} we read about the Messiah "called one like the Son of Man who come in the clouds to the Father "called the Ancient of days, The one like the Son of Man Jesus is standing in the middle of the lambstands wearing a long robe with a golden sash around His chest.
This is clothing that is similar to the description of the clothing of Angels when they appear in a vision {Daniel 10:5-6, Ezekiel 9:2} This clothing is also similar to the priestly attire of the old covenant, this makes for an interesting combination since these cloth were worn by the high priest, but also warn by dignitaries, rulers and Heavenly beings, This is the image of authority in all cases, Jesus is pictured in the midst of these seven Churches.Christ is not absent but stands in the middle of these Churches.
This was written by Revelation made Clear"
O Bible.org. Says the same {Revelation 1:12-13} After hearing the voice of the Lord, John turned and saw seven golden lambstands.
Got Questions also says: John the apostle see's the glorified Christ in a vision Jesus is standing among seven golden lambstands. {Revelation 1:13,16}
Same with Bible Gateway it say the Vision of the Son of Man.
Question are they wrong too? Are we all your enemies because we all read the same verses. You did say a blind man could see this-then how come you can't see what everybody else see's.?

brocab:
I wouldn't have never guess Johno-underneath it all, this is really you-a accuser of lies and wonders, you haven't stopped accusing and abusing me over John in Revelation. is this the way-to treat other believers, or is this your way. Rrrright?
I wouldn't be surprised if you were bullied at school
Your behaviour is child's play, you accuse me of false conduct-This must be taring your insides apart, I don't have to agree with you?
Just in these last few's days, I can't believe your attitude, "Wow' how you have changed-Just over John and who he seen in his vision.
I am not your enemy-I have tested and I have read other views from other sources about {Revelation}
And they all see, what I see, John turned and seen Christ in the midst of the lambstands. John didn't see an angel, as you have argued, John seen Christ Himself.
There's nothing I can say-I don't believe you are truly a believer-you aren't acting like one, you either believe in the bible-or you don't.

brocab:
It's common sense men that act as you do-is a man of fear.

brocab:
Is there any love left in you at all?
Maybe you need to read the bible, instead of playing with yourself. Man of fear..

brocab:
denying God's word is denying God, and you mr lie johno are among the worst God deniers in these forums
most are atheists, but you claim to be a child of God, oh blinded and deceived one

brocab:
i haven't twisted any of God's word mr lie
and the way of twisters of God's word, liars and false accusers is not up

brocab:
Johnw74 denies yet the Word of God, that says: the apostle John turned and seen one like the Son of Man standing in the midst of the lambstands.

brocab:
I had ask you to explain it in your own words-about Revelation-It may have given me some understanding how you see the scriptures, and why you believe John didn't see Christ after turning around. And why don't you believe John had a vision of Christ? All I received from you was your abuse, and gave me no explanation to explain why you believe John didn't see Christ, but only an angel.
By your reactions-I can see you can't explain the scriptures like others can.
I didn't give you a shotgun to shoot me down, I only asked a simple question-could you explain the scripture in your own words.
Ok you aren't a person who can explain words, that's all you had to say, "arguing over nothing-is truly pointless-Your interpretations are right out of hand, Try sitting back, think before you write anything and listen, I could act like you-jumping up and down screaming across the valley, but i would ratter sit down and listen to your abuse and insults you have installed for me, lying to yourself convincing yourself-everyone is your enemy.
Try understanding someone else who are trying to reach out-this isn't the case, it's all about you-you believe no-one understand your level of understanding, try reaching out to somebody, this could help you see something you have never experience nor seen, nor heard, about the Lord.

Abuse is like meeting people on the street, who are really frighten within themselves-they find ways to stop their fear, abuse is to act to protect, putting down the people, is their way, they feel they had won.
You are only upsetting yourself, to be honest is it worth it-abusers are liars-Angry you may feel-didn't the Lord teach you in your bible you must be patient and slow to anger?

brocab:
Listen if you can't explain the scriptures in your own words don't. I see Revelation as I understand it-John seen Christ in his vision. You believe otherwise, please don't tell me! Jesus is Micheal the archangel.

brocab:
After reading the bible hub commentary, it says this {Revelation 1:12-16} And I turned to see the voice {That is to see Him who's voice it was} And I turned I saw-it seems the vision presented itself gradually, first he heard a voice, and upon looking behind him he saw the golden candlesticks, and than, in the midst of the candlesticks, he saw one like the Son of Man-that is one in a human form, as a man.
Likewise our Lord doubtless appears in Heaven, for not exactly in His symbolical manner, wherein He presents Himself as the head of the Church. John next observed that our Lord was clothed with a garment down to His foot and gird with a golden girdle.

Revelation made Clear, Got questions, Bible org and bible hub can't be all wrong, like you have accused me to be.
I see what they see-John turned and John seen one like the Son of Man in the midst of the golden lambstands.
You believe otherwise-you believe John seen a angel standing in the midst of the lambstands, I had asked you kindly to explain your theory to me, and you had insulted me with great pride, refusing to explain Revelation how you see it.
We all have choices-and obviously you have made yours, your beliefs are your own-I have tested, and I have read Revelation over and over-to find what you found-and still I can't see, what you see.
{Your refusal had led me to find other resources, so I have searched for other bible scholars, to see what they see, and what I see-is what they see, "I couldn't find what you see?
As I had said: we are all learning from each other about the Word of God. Obviously you don't believe that...

johnw74:


liecab, are you frightened and upset, an abuser, liar and Angry?

as for me, i enjoy putting liars etc. in their place, you haven't noticed by now?

but then lying and accusing comes naturally to you, a follower of the father of lies:

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



ha ha, what a weak assertion, but typical of you

oh what a tangled web you weave

johnw74:


you are the one who doesn't believe the word of God, but you can't stop lying

i don't believe you, you should have said, if you were honest
and i don't believe any rejector of God's word

these are just two verses you reject, i'm sure there would be many more that don't line up with liecab's word that you would reject also:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

brocab:
So you enjoy putting lairs in place-just look yourself in the mirror-that will solve your mental nature.
It upsets you-I am not responding to your evil ways-you claim you are a believer, but your evidence proves otherwise-I don't disagree with you in Word, but I disagree with you, how you believe your ways insulting and abusing me with bad language-is a believers deed to another believer in Christ.
If I was to act your way towards another believer, without reason-Jesus would say-I never knew you-get away from Me.
You had fooled me, and you had pulled this off really well-Satan is up to his old tricks again-I believed you were a believer, by the likes of you, you have surely changed my thoughts really fast-a false prophet I do believe.
Satan always uses others so called believers-just like you, he also hides behind the Word of God-using God's Word to try and trap the believers, to follow after him, and of course and you. Isn't this the truth-by their fruit we will know them.
Satan chooses who he works through, he pick you...you sure know how to show your true colours.
I will pray for you-that the Lord will show you things, you have never experience, nor seen, nor heard, that lines up with the Word of God.

brocab:
Well in your own words did John see Jesus in the midst of the lambstands-or did he see an angel?

brocab:
So you enjoy putting lairs in place-just look yourself in the mirror-that will solve your mental nature.
It upsets you-I am not responding to your evil ways-you claim you are a believer, but your evidence proves otherwise-I don't disagree with you in Word, but I disagree with you, how you believe your ways insulting and abusing me with bad language-is a believers deed to another believer in Christ.
If I was to act your way towards another believer, without reason-Jesus would say-I never knew you-get away from Me.
You had fooled me, and you had pulled this off really well-Satan is up to his old tricks again-I believed you were a believer, by the likes of you, you have surely changed my thoughts really fast-a false prophet I do believe.
Satan always uses others so called believers-just like you, he also hides behind the Word of God-using God's Word to try and trap the believers, to follow after him, and of course and you. Isn't this the truth-by their fruit we will know them.
Satan chooses who he works through, he pick you...you sure know how to show your true colours.
I will pray for you-that the Lord will show you things, you have never experience, nor seen, nor heard, that lines up with the Word of God.

brocab:
So you enjoy putting lairs in place-just look yourself in the mirror-that will solve your mental nature.
It upsets you-I am not responding to your evil ways-you claim you are a believer, but your evidence proves otherwise-I don't disagree with you in Word, but I disagree with you, how you believe your ways insulting and abusing me with bad language-is a believers deed to another believer in Christ.
If I was to act your way towards another believer, without reason-Jesus would say-I never knew you-get away from Me.
You had fooled me, and you had pulled this off really well-Satan is up to his old tricks again-I believed you were a believer, by the likes of you, you have surely changed my thoughts really fast-a false prophet I do believe[/b].
Satan always uses others so called believers-just like you, he also hides behind the Word of God-using God's Word to try and trap the believers, to follow after him, and of course and you. Isn't this the truth-by their fruit we will know them.
Satan chooses who he works through, he pick you...you sure know how to show your true colours.
I will pray for you-that the Lord will show you things, you have never experience, nor seen, nor heard, that lines up with the Word of God.

brocab:
I am trying to help you bro-I am also trying to get to the bottom of all this-and all I have been receiving from you is more hatred against me-I felt it is best we see the scriptures together-but you are causing problems between us, your abusive behaviour isn't helping at all. I am not here to judge you in anyway-like I said we learn of each other, this is the way Jesus expects us to learn, maybe you have other idea's, but I am not going down your road to hate one another. All along I have been searching for the answer-everybody I have come across all said: the same-they see, what I see in the scriptures, John see's Jesus in His vision.
I have asked you for your support and all i had received from you was your beloved Christian insults and abuse-so of course I am looking elsewhere to sort your little problem out into the open. This is what the Amplified bible, say's {Revelation 1:12} Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me.
And turning I seen seven golden lambstands, and in the midst of the lambstands I saw someone like the Son of Man dressed in a robe reaching to His feet, and with a golden sash wrapped around His chest, His head and His hair were white like white wool {Glistening white} like snow and His {all seeing} eye's like {Flashing} like a flame of fire, {piercing into my being} His feet were like burnished {White hot} bronze refined in a furnace, and His voice was {Powerful} like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and from His mouth came a sharp two edged sword {Of Judgement} and His face {Reflected His Majesty and the Shekinah Glory} was like the sun shining in {All} its power {At midday}
I still can't see what you see-if this description belongs to an angel-he must be one powerful angel, to have all Jesus's authority, God did say in which of the Angels did He say, you sit here at My right side. And because you refuse to share your views about this verse-I have no-more to say to you-you are just a lair and a deceiver-who causes disputes among the brethren.

johnw74:
you must find comfort in copy catting things i said liecab
but from you it's just lies, which of course though, is your way of talking

taking after your father:

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

i know you don't like what i say when putting a liar like you in your place
but to bad liecab, what i say pointing out your lies, false accusing, copy catting, rejecting God's word, etc. etc. is the truth

i'm glad you don't like it, that's my point oh God hater

Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 

Jesus doesn't know you liecab, or others who reject His word.