stupid post am sorry to say
please post sensible topics as muslims so the xtians would not have an avenue of insulting our religion
who is the God of wealth if not Allah swt

Empiree:
^^^

Question is, did those gods and goddesses exist?. Absolutely not. They are fictional characters. It is the same way pre-islamic arabs had many gods for Allah. Whoever believes "aje" is an entity or goddess that provides wealth, it is our collective responsibility to condemn that. The article you posted doesnt even shy away from saying aje is wealth. Those people formed gods and goddesses in their heads, that a god in in charge of water. Another god is in charge of war, another god is in charge of wealth. All these are nonsense. It is the same one God in charge of it all. We simply need to correct them about that. Aje means owo (money) to me. Nothing else. I have no doubt about that. This is why my grandpa cut off any relationship in our family with many Yoruba cultural practices. That's he cut off our kingship lineage when it was his turn.

The question now is, can you proof your claim these gods and goddess don't exist and Allah exist?

And was Allah among the Arabian pagan gods or not?

Nothing is bad in using the word "Aje". Aje means wealth, who provides wealth? Allah.
Some people are mixing up "Orisha Aje" for "Aje".
Orisha Aje: is the God of wealth while,
Aje: means wealth.

Empiree:
I still don't know what's the big deal here. Aje is MONEY for crying out loud. What people thought about it culturally those days is practically and literally irrelevant now.

Christians Arabs misconstrue ALLAH as well, does that stop Muslims from using ALLAH?. Remember Wasiu Ayinde''s song where he sings "owo owo...aje aje". He wasn't referring any deity but money. Even money ritualists, if they succeed in their ritual plans and money is gotten from it, they scream 'aje re (owo re)'. They aren't refering to deity.

If culturally some believe Aje is an entity for the provision of wealth, that's their definition. That's their palava.

And yoruba name for Monday is "òjó ájé". In this context it is referring to "business day". Some people sing 'waka' like "àjé wa mi wa", simply means "chasing bag". None of these have god or deity or supernatural connotations. So I don't know what the big deal here.

Aje as in "god of wealth" is fictional character. To believe in that is kufr. If you don't feel comfortable using AJE, that's you. There are many synonymous words use for something. Aje is one of them for money.

And no one here relegates Islamic given names for these things which are sunnah. Islam is not against culture for as long as it is not in conflict with it. If you live in the West where your phone or Internet activities may be easily tapped, say for instance you are talking about money on the phone and you don't want authority know what your conversation is about, the first thing you do is you don't speak English. This doesn't mean they don't know your language. They most likely know owo means money, owo is common word for money.

In that case, you want to use "ijinle" yoruba or a more complicated word for money. You can easily use Àjé to confuse them because when it comes to "moving money", authority most likely listen to your conversations. This is why people who do fraud to get immigration paper use the word "pali" instead of documents or papers.

If I get you well, Aje is another word for money in Yoruba? Did I get you right?

Empiree:
I think from linguistic angle it is okay. Allah created every nation with their own palava. Surah Haj 67

"To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way".


I simply don't believe in the idea of "god of Wealth" in Yoruba sense. There is no need to argue this either because, from muslim perspective 'God of wealth' is Allah. He is the Provider, The Sustainer and The Source of wealth. I believe the Yorubas at the time simply got it wrong the way Arab multiplied their gods in those days, believing that when calamities befell them, another god was responsible for that. When they bore a child, anther god was responsible for that. When they were rich another god was responsible for that etc. But we know Allah alone is responsible for all.


So there is no need for any Alfa to start arguing about whether the use if "Aje awa oo" is acceptable or not, and the youths start causing problems and creating nuisance around town over this.


Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. (Al-Baqarah 2:255)


It is the same scenario with "olugbohun". Allah lo n je be in the sense that there is "kun fa yakun" in the Qur'an.

Wallahu Allam


Ps, i actually thought you were talking about Aje (witches) when i read the title

A Muslim with good brain. Africans cannot allow Islam to overrule their names & culture. That's why I smh for people changing names to Quranic ones at the expense of their indigenous given ones.
But Muslim fanatics won't hear. Until they stab or burn someone, they won't learn.

Issues like this should be returned to the specialists of the language.

What do Yoruba people intend when they say Aje. Note: we may need to ask researchers or conc village people in places like Oyo etc.

If they say Aje basically means wealth, then there's no problem even if the idolators use it for their idols.

But if they say it is the name of Yoruba idol of wealth, then there's every problem even if they later use it for wealth.

Take the word Ogun for example. Using it to refer to iron clearly contradicts Islam because it basically is the name of Yoruba god of iron.

But the word irin is permissible to use for iron even if some people use it to refer to their idol. Because irin is the Yoruba word for iron and other metals.

Allaah knows best.

Empiree:
I still don't know what's the big deal here. Aje is MONEY for crying out loud. What people thought about it culturally those days is practically and literally irrelevant now.

Christians Arabs misconstrue ALLAH as well, does that stop Muslims from using ALLAH?. Remember Wasiu Ayinde''s song where he sings "owo owo...aje aje". He wasn't referring any deity but money. Even money ritualists, if they succeed in their ritual plans and money is gotten from it, they scream 'aje re (owo re)'. They aren't refering to deity.

If culturally some believe Aje is an entity for the provision of wealth, that's their definition. That's their palava.

And yoruba name for Monday is "òjó ájé". In this context it is referring to "business day". Some people sing 'waka' like "àjé wa mi wa", simply means "chasing bag". None of these have god or deity or supernatural connotations. So I don't know what the big deal here.

Aje as in "god of wealth" is fictional character. To believe in that is kufr. If you don't feel comfortable using AJE, that's you. There are many synonymous words use for something. Aje is one of them for money.

And no one here relegates Islamic given names for these things which are sunnah. Islam is not against culture for as long as it is not in conflict with it. If you live in the West where your phone or Internet activities may be easily tapped, say for instance you are talking about money on the phone and you don't want authority know what your conversation is about, the first thing you do is you don't speak English. This doesn't mean they don't know your language. They most likely know owo means money, owo is common word for money.

In that case, you want to use "ijinle" yoruba or a more complicated word for money. You can easily use Àjé to confuse them because when it comes to "moving money", authority most likely listen to your conversations. This is why people who do fraud to get immigration paper use the word "pali" instead of documents or papers.

You are spot on. Many of them are mixing up "Orisa Aje" for "Aje". The former is the god of wealth while the latter means wealth

The way we youth are practising Islam especially in Nigeria...May Allah forgive us all...juma'at mubarak to y'all...

Gaddafithe2nd:

You are spot on. Many of them are mixing up "Orisa Aje" for "Aje". The former is the god of wealth while the latter means wealth

You make sense.

I just need some proof.

For instance, when you something like this in Arabic language. You will be asked for verse of the Quran, Arab poem or proverb etc to support your claim.

If I could just find one reliable proof.

I like your opinion.

Empiree:
I think from linguistic angle it is okay. Allah created every nation with their own palava. Surah Haj 67

"To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way".


I simply don't believe in the idea of "god of Wealth" in Yoruba sense. There is no need to argue this either because, from muslim perspective 'God of wealth' is Allah. He is the Provider, The Sustainer and The Source of wealth. I believe the Yorubas at the time simply got it wrong the way Arab multiplied their gods in those days, believing that when calamities befell them, another god was responsible for that. When they bore a child, anther god was responsible for that. When they were rich another god was responsible for that etc. But we know Allah alone is responsible for all.


So there is no need for any Alfa to start arguing about whether the use if "Aje awa oo" is acceptable or not, and the youths start causing problems and creating nuisance around town over this.


Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. (Al-Baqarah 2:255)


It is the same scenario with "olugbohun". Allah lo n je be in the sense that there is "kun fa yakun" in the Qur'an.

Wallahu Allam


Ps, i actually thought you were talking about Aje (witches) when i read the title

Now I think you got this wrong sir.

The names of those Arab idols should never be used for Allah. Allaah told us His names and attributes in the Quran.

Moreover, language is a terminology. When the Arabs use the word Allaah they mean nothing else but The One and Supreme. Same thing for Yoruba when they use Olohun, Olorun. Every language has its word for The One Supreme deity. That also proves that the creed of Islamic monotheism is a natural instinct.

So we don't need the names of their idols because even the polytheists don't use it for their creator.

Allaah knows best.

Newnas:
Issues like this should be returned to the specialists of the language.

What do Yoruba people intend when they say Aje. Note: we may need to ask researchers or conc village people in places like Oyo etc.

If they say Aje basically means wealth, then there's no problem even if the idolators use it for their idols.

But if they say it is the name of Yoruba idol of wealth, then there's every problem even if they later use it for wealth.

Take the word Ogun for example. Using it to refer to iron clearly contradicts Islam because it basically is the name of Yoruba god of iron.

But the word irin is permissible to use for iron even if some people use it to refer to their idol. Because irin is the Yoruba word for iron and other metals.

Allaah knows best.

Jazakallahu kayran

nisai:
Jazakallahu kayran

Aameen Wa iyyaakum

tintingz:
The question now is, can you proof your claim these gods and goddess don't exist and Allah exist?

And was Allah among the Arabian pagan gods or not?

wallahi, I was thinking of you when I typed that.
I expected you would ask me this and you didn't disappoint

Your question can be easily refuted by telling you now that if there are many gods as you claimed, we as humans and other creatures can not live in peace. As in, all these gods of yours could have been fighting for powers and controls.

For example, a god would want sun at sunset, another god wants sun at night, another god wants both at the same time. Another god wants summer in the winter, another god wants winter in summer. The whole planet would have crumbled. That's why Allah said that He has no partners to compete with HIM. Allah ilahu waidu La ilaha ila Allah

Newnas:


You make sense.

I just need some proof.

For instance, when you something like this in Arabic language. You will be asked for verse of the Quran, Arab poem or proverb etc to support your claim.

If I could just find one reliable proof.

I like your opinion.

From the Yoruba dictionary that I have on my phone. Ajé is defined as money and as a goddess. It now depends on the way individual uses it.

Newnas:


Now I think you got this wrong sir.

The names of those Arab idols should never be used for Allah.

what are you taking about? I guess you don't understand my point. Christians still use Allah but in the wrong context.

Moreover, language is a terminology.

So we don't need the names of their idols because even the polytheists don't use it for their creator.

linguistic is what I'm dealing with here. I don't believe in Aje the so "god of wealth". That's crap

Gaddafithe2nd:

From the Yoruba dictionary that I have on my phone. Ajé is defined as money and as a goddess. It now depends on the way individual uses it.

See what I found

on 03 May 2011
A Speech Delivered by DR. DIPO KALEJAIYE at the OLOKUN FESTIVAL At the Palace Square of His Royal Majesty, The Monarch of Onigbongbo in Ikeja Lagos, Oba Yususf Olatunji

The crux of my discussion today is that religion permeates all facets of traditional Yoruba life, that Aje in traditional Yoruba religion is a goddess and therefore must be venerated. Also, that an individual’s effort towards amassing wealth is only physical and that the spiritual aspect of Yoruba life is the guiding force for seeking physical wealth. I will also posit that without...

[quote author=Gbemishile1 post=63915669]stupid post am sorry to say
please post sensible topics as muslims so the xtians would not have an avenue of insulting our religion
who is the God of wealth if not Allah swt[/quote]my point

[quote author=Empiree post=63864397] Aje is idol's name in Yoruba so, it wrong to be callin Aje and the verse you quoted does not mean what you think. The verse is talkin about previous prophets that each was given method of worship. I think from linguistic angle it is okay. Allah created every nation with their own palava. Surah Haj 67
"To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow: let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord: for thou art assuredly on the Right Way".I simply don't believe in the idea of "god of Wealth" in Yoruba sense. There is no need to argue this either because, from muslim perspective 'God of wealth' is Allah. He is the Provider, The Sustainer and The Source of wealth. I believe the Yorubas at the time simply got it wrong the way Arab multiplied their gods in those days, believing that when calamities befell them, another god was responsible for that.

This thread is educating

Unwanted arguments all in the name of dialect

لَا تَدْخُلُونَ الْجَنَّةَ حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَا تُؤْمِنُوا حَتَّى تَحَابُّوا أَوَلَا أَدُلُّكُمْ عَلَى شَيْءٍ إِذَا فَعَلْتُمُوهُ تَحَابَبْتُمْ أَفْشُوا السَّلَامَ بَيْنَكُمْ

You will not enter Paradise until you believe and you will not believe until you love each other. Shall I show you something that, if you did, you would love each other? Spread peace between yourselves.

Source: Sahih Muslim 54, Grade: Sahih

Do we love one and others

tintingz:
Albaqir, can you tell us about Olorun/Olohun origin?

# I have promised you a dedicated thread on the subject of "God". Just wait for your time. Have been extra busy these days. In sha Allah, it will come soon.

Arabic: الله
“Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures. Some English translations of the Qu’ran (Koran) use the name “God,” others use “Allah.” This sometimes comes as a surprise to Christians who were raised in Western cultures. Among former Muslims, many converts to Christianity commonly refer to God as “Allah.” (This is despite the fact that they recognize clear differences in the character of God as described by the Bible compared to Islamic writings. For example, although both Christians, Muslims and Jews firmly believe there is only one God, Christians have the additional doctrine of the Trinity.)
Of course, the word “God” does not actually appear in the original Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible, accepted as Holy by both Christians and Muslims. “God” is an old English word which developed from an Indo-European word, meaning “that which is invoked,” which is also the ancestor of the German word Gott (meaning: God).

Empiree:
wallahi, I was thinking of you when I typed that.
I expected you would ask me this and you didn't disappoint

Your question can be easily refuted by telling you now that if there are many gods as you claimed, we as humans and other creatures can not live in peace. As in, all these gods of yours would have been fighting for power and control.

For example, a god would want sun at sunset, another god wants sun at night, another god wants both at the same time. Another god wants summer in tree winter, anther god wants winter in summer. The whole planet would have crumbled. That's why Allah said that He has no partners to compete with HIM. Allah ilahu waidu La ilaha ila Allah

These are just assumptions, what evidence do you have that all Gods will have conflicts, you never thought of all Gods uniting together to create the universe?

Shaykh Aadam KamaaludDeen ArRushdiy

Islamic Lectures according to the Qur'aan, Sunnah, and the consensus of the scholars.

1, Alh. KamalDeen Mustapha Street, Ikorodu, Lagos, Nigeria.
+2348143928252
+2348099047131
aadamarrushdiy@gmail.com
arrushdiy.

AlBaqir:


# I have promised you a dedicated thread on the subject of "God". Just wait for your time. Have been extra busy these days. In sha Allah, it will come soon.

Ok.

So can we now discuss the use of "Olorun" by Yoruba Muslims, is it acceptable or not?

Well so much opinions and counter opinions have been flying all over the read from those who have deficit understanding of the Yoruba language and from those who believe anything Yoruba is idolatory(this happened in a post I made last year).
Take note of this hadith:

عَنْ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ، – رضى الله عنه – قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ “‏ إِنَّمَا الأَعْمَالُ بِالنِّيَّةِ وَإِنَّمَا لاِمْرِئٍ مَا نَوَى فَمَنْ كَانَتْ هِجْرَتُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَإِلَى رَسُولِهِ فَهِجْرَتُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَإِلَى رَسُولِهِ وَمَنْ كَانَتْ هِجْرَتُهُ إِلَى دُنْيَا يُصِيبُهَا أَوِ امْرَأَةٍ يَنْ


إِلَيْهِ ‏“‏ ‏.‏

 On the authority of Omar bin Al-Khattab, who said : I heard the messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam say : “Actions are but by intention and every man shall have but that which he intended. Thus he whose migration was for Allah and His messenger, his migration was for Allah and His messenger, and he whose migration was to achieve some worldly benefit or to take some woman in marriage, his migration was for that for which he migrated.” ~ Related by Bukhari and Muslim

What is your intention when saying aje a wa o(sales will come) some of us even say aje a wa insha Allah(Sales will come if Allah wishes).Is your intention premised around what you think is Yoruba goddess of wealth or just a simple prayer?
Everyone will be judged according to his/her intention.
Having said the above, the Yoruba goddess of wealth is not Aje, the Yorubas believed Olokun to be the goddess of riches back in the days and Aje as what Olokun possessed.
Hence they would say Aje Omo Olokun (not in the child sense) but they believed Olokun can send riches to you hence the above phrase.
In conclusion, you will be judged according to whatever your intention is and speaking linguistically Aje is not the goddess of wealth.
Salam Alaykum .

tintingz:
These are just assumptions, what evidence do you have that all Gods will have conflicts, you never thought of all Gods uniting together to create the universe?

There are always parables or illustrations for us on this planet. So there are plenty of examples for you to read. Let me share with you just a few.

Boyfriend and girlfriend. You see your girl talking to another dude, how do you feel?. You dont need to lie about this. Your feeling is to rage and war with the dude, correct?. Why dont you want this rival or coequal?

How about husband and wife?. You see your wife kissing another man at supermarket or you caught your wife with another man in your matrimonial bed. How do you feel sir?. I am sure if you have a gun, you gonna gun down both of them or the man. Why would you do that?. It is your natural instincts at work. Meaning, you do not want co-equal, right?

Exactly how Allah feels (astaghfirullah) when His creature set up partners with Him. These are micro examples. How about macro?

Let's take presidential race for example. Why do you have one president?. Why not two?. If you have two presidents in the same country, they not gonna gree. If a president decides to go to war, the other may want dialogue. They gonna have to trash and fight themselves off first before facing the enemies. Why do the politicians kill their opposition party?. The answer is they do not want rivals

Another example is world power. They want no rival. You can take US for instance. Why does the US always sanction any nation that goes against her policies?. Why does the US has the right to launch and test rockets but others cant?. Why is US agitate with NK and Iran over nuclear arsenal?. The answer is she wants no rivals. This is called POWER which can not be challenged by anyone.

Now, Allah is saying to you that He alone is the OWNER of the universe. He created and fashioned it. He created you and I and all that exist. He gives us sun and the moon at their appropriate time without any conflict. If there had been more than one God, there would have been conflicts btw the sun and the moon needless to say other galaxies He created and other unseen and unknown.

There are tips of iceberg to get you to use your thinking capacity and thinking faculty that Allah gave to you. Enough said

Empiree:
There are always parables or illustrations for us on this planet. So there are plenty of examples for you to read. Let me share with you just a few.

Boyfriend and girlfriend. You see your girl talking to another dude, how do you feel?. You dont need to lie about this. Your feeling is to rage and war with the dude, correct?. Why dont you want this rival or coequal?

How about husband and wife?. You see your wife kissing another man at supermarket or you caught your wife with another man in your matrimonial bed. How do you feel sir?. I am sure if you have a gun, you gonna gun down both of them or the man. Why would you do that?. It is your natural instincts at work. Meaning, you do not want co-equal, right?

Exactly how Allah feels (astaghfirullah) when His creature set up partners with Him. These are micro examples. How about macro?

Let's take presidential race for example. Why do you have one president?. Why not two?. If you have two presidents in the same country, they not gonna gree. If a president decides to go to war, the other may want dialogue. They gonna have to trash and fight themselves off first before facing the enemies. Why do the politicians kill their opposition party?. The answer is they do not want rivals

Another example is world power. They want no rival. You can take US for instance. Why does the US always sanction any nation that goes against her policies?. Why does the US has the right to launch and test rockets but others cant?. Why is US agitate with NK and Iran over nuclear arsenal?. The answer is she wants no rivals. This is called POWER which can not be challenged by anyone.

Now, Allah is saying to you that He alone is the OWNER of the universe. He created and fashioned it. He created you and I and all that exist. He gives us sun and the moon at their appropriate time without any conflict. If there had been more than one God, there would have been conflicts btw the sun and the moon needless to say other galaxies He created and other unseen and unknown.

There are tips of iceberg to get you to use your thinking capacity and thinking faculty that Allah gave to you. Enough said

Excellent analysis!!!

Jazakhallahu khairan for this beautiful reply.

Long time bro...how are things?

Aje is best left out of our vocabulary although the meaning might also mean "business" or "commerce" but its roots make it undesirable.

Empiree:
There are always parables or illustrations for us on this planet. So there are plenty of examples for you to read. Let me share with you just a few.

Boyfriend and girlfriend. You see your girl talking to another dude, how do you feel?. You dont need to lie about this. Your feeling is to rage and war with the dude, correct?. Why dont you want this rival or coequal?

How about husband and wife?. You see your wife kissing another man at supermarket or you caught your wife with another man in your matrimonial bed. How do you feel sir?. I am sure if you have a gun, you gonna gun down both of them or the man. Why would you do that?. It is your natural instincts at work. Meaning, you do not want co-equal, right?

Exactly how Allah feels (astaghfirullah) when His creature set up partners with Him. These are micro examples. How about macro?

Let's take presidential race for example. Why do you have one president?. Why not two?. If you have two presidents in the same country, they not gonna gree. If a president decides to go to war, the other may want dialogue. They gonna have to trash and fight themselves off first before facing the enemies. Why do the politicians kill their opposition party?. The answer is they do not want rivals

Another example is world power. They want no rival. You can take US for instance. Why does the US always sanction any nation that goes against her policies?. Why does the US has the right to launch and test rockets but others cant?. Why is US agitate with NK and Iran over nuclear arsenal?. The answer is she wants no rivals. This is called POWER which can not be challenged by anyone.

Now, Allah is saying to you that He alone is the OWNER of the universe. He created and fashioned it. He created you and I and all that exist. He gives us sun and the moon at their appropriate time without any conflict. If there had been more than one God, there would have been conflicts btw the sun and the moon needless to say other galaxies He created and other unseen and unknown.

There are tips of iceberg to get you to use your thinking capacity and thinking faculty that Allah gave to you. Enough said

Assumption assumption assumption!

The epistle you posted is not close to any evidence for the Gods, the thing is you're not with the Gods!

Your epistle only show that Gods have Human behavior and character including Allah(the reason they are called personal gods in philosophy), this shows Gods are limited in intelligent even humans that are said not to be perfect in intelligence knows a peace committee is needed in every society, the reason UN was created, so Gods are dumb to create a peace committee to unite every Gods?

So the question is never answered as you haven't provide evidence how Gods will conflict each other, you only support my argument that Gods are limited and bound to human behavior(Anthropomorphism).

The premise question still not yet refuted.

Dindondin:
A Muslim with good brain. Africans cannot allow Islam to overrule their names & culture. That's why I smh for people changing names to Quranic ones at the expense of their indigenous given ones.
But Muslim fanatics won't hear. Until they stab or burn someone, they won't learn.

Actually,a Muslim with a good brain should allow Islam to overrule their names and culture. Do u know that the most beloved names to Allah are Quranic names(As u call it) which are Abdullah and Abdul Rahmon.And besides, why should I be calling my Daughter names like Bola,Shalewa etc when I can be calling them a more beautiful names like Fatimo,Aisha etc and d same goes for d males too.Tradition is man made and it is full of flaws..Islam is from Allah and it is perfect. U do something because of tradition, am not sure u will be rewarded. But if u do something for Allah/Islam sake sure u will be rewarded

tintingz:
Assumption assumption assumption!

The epistle you posted is not close to any evidence for the Gods, the thing is you're not with the Gods!

Your epistle only show that Gods have Human behavior and character including Allah(the reason they are called personal gods in philosophy), this shows Gods are limited in intelligent even humans that are said not to be perfect in intelligent knows a peace committee is needed in every society, the reason UN was created, so Gods are dumb to create a peace committee to unite every Gods?

So the question is never answered as you haven't provide evidence how Gods will conflict each other, you only support my argument that Gods are limited and bound to human behavior(Anthropomorphism).

The premise question still not yet refuted.

You are not using thinking capacity Allah gave to you at all.