winner01:
Isn't it remarkable that atheists, who did virtually nothing to oppose slavery, condemn Christians, who are the ones who abolished it?

Consider atheist Sam Harris, who blames Christianity for supporting slavery. Harris is right that slavery existed among the Old Testament Jews, and Paul even instructs slaves to obey their masters. During the civil war both sides quoted the Bible. We know all this. (Yawn, yawn.)

But slavery pre-dated Christianity by centuries and even millennia. As we read from sociologist Orlando Patterson's work, all known cultures had slavery. For centuries, slavery needed no defenders because it had no critics. Atheists who champion ancient Greece and pre-Christian Rome somehow seem to forget that those empires were based on large-scale enslavement.
Atheist Michael Shermer says Christians are "late comers" to the movement against slavery. Shermer advanced this argument in our Cal Tech debate in December. That debate is now online, and you can watch it at michaelshermer.com.
But if what Shermer says is true, who were the early opponents of slavery who got there before the Christians did? Actually, there weren't any. Shermer probably thinks the Christians only got around to opposing slavery in the modern era.

Wrong. Slavery was mostly eradicated from Western civilization--then called Christendom--between the fourth and the tenth century. The Greco-Roman institution of slavery gave way to serfdom. Now serfdom has its problems but at least the serf is not a "human tool" and cannot be bought and sold like property. So slavery was ended twice in Western civilization, first in the medieval era and then again in the modern era.

In the American South, Christianity proved to be the solace of the oppressed. As historian Eugene Genovese documents in Roll, Jordan, Roll, when black slaves sought to find dignity during the dark night of slavery, they didn't turn to Marcus Aurelius or David Hume; they turned to the Bible. When they sought hope and inspiration for liberation, they found it not in Voltaire or D'Holbach but in the Book of Exodus.
The anti-slavery movements led by Wilberforce in England and abolitionists in America were dominated by Christians. These believers reasoned that since we are all created equal in the eyes of God, no one has the right to rule another without consent. This is the moral basis not only of anti-slavery but also of democracy.
Jefferson was in some ways the least orthodox and the most skeptical of the founders. Yet when he condemned slavery he found himself using biblical language. In Notes on the State of Virginia Jefferson warned that those who would enslave people should reflect that "the Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest." Jefferson famously added, "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep for ever."


But wasn't Jefferson also a man of science? Yes he was, and it was on the basis of the latest science of his day that Jefferson expressed his convictions about black inferiority. Citing the discoveries of modern science, Jefferson noted that "there are varieties in the race of man, distinguished by their powers both of body and of mind...as I see to be the case with races of other animals." Blacks, Jefferson continued, lack the powers of reason that are evident in whites and even in native Indians. While atheists today like to portray themselves as paragons of equal dignity, Jefferson's scientific and skeptical outlook contributed not to his anti-slavery sentiments but to his racism. Somehow Harris and Shermer neglect to point this out.
In the end the fact remains that the only movements that opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West, and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians. Sadly the West had to use force to stop slavery in other cultures, such as the Muslim slave trade off the coast of Africa. In some quarters the campaign to eradicate slavery still goes on.
So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while everyone else generally stood by and watched.



https://townhall.com/columnists/dineshdsouza/2008/01/14/how-christians-ended-slavery-n962085

Guy your brain is literally smoking hot.

winner01:
I wonder what gives an atheist the moral grounds to blame anyone.

Superhumanist, in case you haven't noticed, you and a terrorist in this "accidental universe" have equal rights. That you choose to borrow from the christian morality and live like a normal human being is your business, a terrorist has all the rights to crack open the heads of other accidental beings. You do not have the right to call him to order. He's acting in his own interest.

Who is agreeing with you that the universe is accidental?

You just assume and presuppose nonsense.


And by the way, morality existed long before judaism and christianity.

winner01:
Okay. What is Christianity?

guy, what is in your bible?

You are asking me what is christianity. lol

winner01:
Isn't it remarkable that atheists, who did virtually nothing to oppose slavery, condemn Christians, who are the ones who abolished it?

Consider atheist Sam Harris, who blames Christianity for supporting slavery. Harris is right that slavery existed among the Old Testament Jews, and Paul even instructs slaves to obey their masters. During the civil war both sides quoted the Bible. We know all this. (Yawn, yawn.)

But slavery pre-dated Christianity by centuries and even millennia. As we read from sociologist Orlando Patterson's work, all known cultures had slavery. For centuries, slavery needed no defenders because it had no critics. Atheists who champion ancient Greece and pre-Christian Rome somehow seem to forget that those empires were based on large-scale enslavement.
Atheist Michael Shermer says Christians are "late comers" to the movement against slavery. Shermer advanced this argument in our Cal Tech debate in December. That debate is now online, and you can watch it at michaelshermer.com.
But if what Shermer says is true, who were the early opponents of slavery who got there before the Christians did? Actually, there weren't any. Shermer probably thinks the Christians only got around to opposing slavery in the modern era.

Wrong. Slavery was mostly eradicated from Western civilization--then called Christendom--between the fourth and the tenth century. The Greco-Roman institution of slavery gave way to serfdom. Now serfdom has its problems but at least the serf is not a "human tool" and cannot be bought and sold like property. So slavery was ended twice in Western civilization, first in the medieval era and then again in the modern era.

In the American South, Christianity proved to be the solace of the oppressed. As historian Eugene Genovese documents in Roll, Jordan, Roll, when black slaves sought to find dignity during the dark night of slavery, they didn't turn to Marcus Aurelius or David Hume; they turned to the Bible. When they sought hope and inspiration for liberation, they found it not in Voltaire or D'Holbach but in the Book of Exodus.
The anti-slavery movements led by Wilberforce in England and abolitionists in America were dominated by Christians. These believers reasoned that since we are all created equal in the eyes of God, no one has the right to rule another without consent. This is the moral basis not only of anti-slavery but also of democracy.
Jefferson was in some ways the least orthodox and the most skeptical of the founders. Yet when he condemned slavery he found himself using biblical language. In Notes on the State of Virginia Jefferson warned that those who would enslave people should reflect that "the Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest." Jefferson famously added, "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep for ever."


But wasn't Jefferson also a man of science? Yes he was, and it was on the basis of the latest science of his day that Jefferson expressed his convictions about black inferiority. Citing the discoveries of modern science, Jefferson noted that "there are varieties in the race of man, distinguished by their powers both of body and of mind...as I see to be the case with races of other animals." Blacks, Jefferson continued, lack the powers of reason that are evident in whites and even in native Indians. While atheists today like to portray themselves as paragons of equal dignity, Jefferson's scientific and skeptical outlook contributed not to his anti-slavery sentiments but to his racism. Somehow Harris and Shermer neglect to point this out.
In the end the fact remains that the only movements that opposed slavery in principle were mobilized in the West, and they were overwhelmingly led and populated by Christians. Sadly the West had to use force to stop slavery in other cultures, such as the Muslim slave trade off the coast of Africa. In some quarters the campaign to eradicate slavery still goes on.
So who killed slavery? The Christians did, while everyone else generally stood by and watched.



https://townhall.com/columnists/dineshdsouza/2008/01/14/how-christians-ended-slavery-n962085

Copy and paste.......


Just look at the long post you made about christianity and slavery. Not once in this long post was it accepted that christianiy played a huge role in the transatlantic slavery of black people.

It only focuses on the fact that christianity also played a huge role in stopping slavery (while still conveniently forgetting that other sets of christians fought to keep slavery)

Butterflyleo:


Guy your brain is literally smoking hot.

Stop being a cheerleading shitstain

superhumanist:



Copy and paste.......


Just look at the long post you made about christianity and slavery. Not once in this long post was it accepted that christianiy played a huge role in the transatlantic slavery of black people.

It only focuses on the fact that christianity also played a huge role in stopping slavery (while still conveniently forgetting that other sets of christians fought to keep slavery)

THIS!

and those that fought to keep slavery had their stand backed by the folklore BuyBull while the abolitionists don't

check out the famous quotes by Christians in support of slavery during the fight for its abolition

Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.


the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.

CuteMadridista:


THIS!

and those that fought to keep slavery had their stand backed by the folklore BuyBull while the abolitionists don't

check out the famous quotes by Christians in support of slavery during the fight for its abolition

Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.

Jefferson Davis , President, Confederate States of America

the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.

Richard Furman , President, South Carolina Baptist Convention

Gbam!!

Okay, butterflyleo ati winner01, come and explain how is it that there are christian who fought to keep slavery as well? Also, why did they have backing of the scripture.

superhumanist:


Gbam!!

Okay, butterfl.yleo ati winner01, come and explain how is it that there are christian who fought to keep slavery as well? Also, why did they have backing of the scripture.

Now let's have a look at the abolitionists and see if they referred to the Bible at all

Wilberforce wrote in his diary "God Almighty has set before me two great objects, the suppression of the Slave Trade and Reformation of Morals."
Nothing but his own personal shiii, not reference to the Bible at all, obviously whatever influenced him to fight for abolition had NOTHING to do with the Bible, probably his common sense overriding the rubbish book

John Wesley who founded Methodist too never used the Bible to support his abolitionist movement neither did Charles Finney nor Theodore Weld nor Harriet Beecher

Basically, if Christianity is based on the Bible like Christians are fond of saying then it wasn't what abolished slavery but it was abolished inspite of it as it goes against the Bible. Heck you could even call the Christians who are abolitionists "Sinners" and you wouldn't be wrong! they could be burning in hell forever for daring to go against Yahweh's Hole-ly and perfect instructions

superhumanist:



Who is agreeing with you that the universe is accidental?

You just assume and presuppose nonsense.


And by the way, morality existed long before judaism and christianity.

Okay so the universe was not accidental? Clearly state how it came about.

superhumanist:



Who is agreeing with you that the universe is accidental?

You just assume and presuppose nonsense.


And by the way, morality existed long before judaism and christianity.

Slavery existed long before Christianity you retard.

Christians took the initiative to end slavery while atheists did nothing.

superhumanist:


guy, what is in your bible?

You are asking me what is christianity. lol

What is Christianity?

superhumanist:



Copy and paste.......


Just look at the long post you made about christianity and slavery. Not once in this long post was it accepted that christianiy played a huge role in the transatlantic slavery of black people.

It only focuses on the fact that christianity also played a huge role in stopping slavery (while still conveniently forgetting that other sets of christians fought to keep slavery)

What did atheists do about slavery?

CuteMadridista:


THIS!

and those that fought to keep slavery had their stand backed by the folklore BuyBull while the abolitionists don't

check out the famous quotes by Christians in support of slavery during the fight for its abolition

Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.

Jefferson Davis , President, Confederate States of America

the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.

Richard Furman , President, South Carolina Baptist Convention

Slavery did not begin with Christianity.

Christians ended slavery no matter what you say.

What did atheists do about slavery?

superhumanist:


Gbam!!

Okay, butterflyleo ati winner01, come and explain how is it that there are christian who fought to keep slavery as well? Also, why did they have backing of the scripture.

What did atheists do about slavery?

I think I should open a thread on this.

CuteMadridista:


Now let's have a look at the abolitionists and see if they referred to the Bible at all

Wilberforce wrote in his diary "God Almighty has set before me two great objects, the suppression of the Slave Trade and Reformation of Morals."
Nothing but his own personal shiii, not reference to the Bible at all, obviously whatever influenced him to fight for abolition had NOTHING to do with the Bible, probably his common sense overriding the rubbish book

John Wesley who founded Methodist too never used the Bible to support his abolitionist movement neither did Charles Finney nor Theodore Weld nor Harriet Beecher

Basically, if Christianity is based on the Bible like Christians are fond of saying then it wasn't what abolished slavery but it was abolished inspite of it as it goes against the Bible. Heck you could even call the Christians who are abolitionists "Sinners" and you wouldn't be wrong! they could be burning in hell forever for daring to go against Yahweh's Hole-ly and perfect instructions

These are Christians performing great feats. I see no atheists in your quotes. Wilberforce acknowledged that God (which you don't believe in) told him to suppress slavery.

Other great Christians you mentioned reformed age-long acts that existed long before Christianity.
Those men were used by God to reform morality.

I'm wondering why you haven't mentioned what atheists did concerning slavery. Or were there no atheists during the slavery era?

Butterflyleo:


Okay so the universe was not accidental? Clearly state how it came about.

This is how I know you never read what intellignent people post to you.

Atheists have been telling you that no one knows how the universe came about. It is better to be agnostic than to claim one thing or the other.

What caused the big bang? No one knows. It could have been a knock off effect from another bang, it could be an exploding flying tea pot.....no one knows.


You never learn.

winner01:
Slavery existed long before Christianity you retard.

Christians took the initiative to end slavery while atheists did nothing.

Christianity participated in slavery. Please admit that first and stop dodging.

There were freethinkers in the abolition movement. Do your research.

winner01:
What did atheists do about slavery?

I think I should open a thread on this.

Please, open a thread and make a fool of yourself.

There were freethinkers in the abolition movement. Do some research before talking nonsense

winner01:
Slavery did not begin with Christianity.

Christians ended slavery no matter what you say.

What did atheists do about slavery?

winner01:
These are Christians performing great feats. I see no atheists in your quotes. Wilberforce acknowledged that God (which you don't believe in) told him to suppress slavery.

Other great Christians you mentioned reformed age-long acts that existed long before Christianity.
Those men were used by God to reform morality.

I'm wondering why you haven't mentioned what atheists did concerning slavery. Or were there no atheists during the slavery era?

A Christian is someone who is like Christ, Christ NEVER saw anything Wrong in slavery so any "Christian" against slavery is not a Christian. if a group of "Christians" band together and start fighting in support of legalising stealing, you'd be (one of) the first to shout "they're not Christians cuz Christ never stood for the right to steal". Wilberforce was most likely being deceived by the devil into going against something his god ordained

abolitionists cannot be Christians so Christians had nothing to do with abolitionist movement just like Christians have nothing to do with gay rights movement. claiming to be a Christian does not make you one

superhumanist:




Please, open a thread and make a fool of yourself.

There were freethinkers in the abolition movement. Do some research before talking nonsense

Mention their names.

CuteMadridista:


A Christian is someone who is like Christ, Christ NEVER saw anything Wrong in slavery so any "Christian" against slavery is not a Christian. if a group of "Christians" band together and start fighting in support of legalising stealing, you'd be (one of) the first to shout "they're not Christians cuz Christ never stood for the right to steal". Wilberforce was most likely being deceived by the devil into going against something his god ordained

abolitionists cannot be Christians so Christians had nothing to do with abolitionist movement just like Christians have nothing to do with gay rights movement. claiming to be a Christian does not make you one

Wilberforce said God gave him instructions to suppress slavery. Its funny that does not matter to you. The Bible is not the way only way a Christian hears from God.

Because this good thing has come from Christianity, you desperately wish to dissociate it from Christianity. You even go as far as claiming that the abolitionists are not Christians and claiming to be a christian does not make you one . You also claim he was being deceived by the devil simply because this seems to be a good thing

I understand you perfectly.
Christians took the step to end slavery. What did atheism do about slavery?.

winner01:
Mention their names.

Ogbeni, go and research for yourself. I know this tiresome game you are trying to play.

Robert Ingersoll
He was a staunch abolitionist who served honorably for the Union in the Civil War, and went on to advocate progressive causes like free speech, women's rights, anti-racism and the abolition of corporal punishment.

superhumanist:



This is how I know you never read what intellignent people post to you.

Atheists have been telling you that no one knows how the universe came about. It is better to be agnostic than to claim one thing or the other.

What caused the big bang? No one knows. It could have been a knock off effect from another bang, it could be an exploding flying tea pot.....no one knows.


You never learn.

So atheists don't know yet they wish others to become "I don't Knowers" like them? You are simply showing how unintelligent atheism is. You never learn.

What has atheism ever offered humanity besides scepticism? Tell me

superhumanist:


Ogbeni, go and research for yourself. I know this tiresome game you are trying to play.

Robert Ingersoll
He was a staunch abolitionist who served honorably for the Union in the Civil War, and went on to advocate progressive causes like free speech, women's rights, anti-racism and the abolition of corporal punishment.

Let me make a fool of you now.
Slave trade was abolished in the United States in 1865 ----- how?

When did ingersoll start advocating for free speech, women's rights, and the rest? I want you to use your own hand and kill your own argument.

You never learn.

Butterflyleo:


So atheists don't know yet they wish others to become "I don't Knowers" like them? You are simply showing how unintelligent atheism is. You never learn.

What has atheism ever offered humanity besides scepticism? Tell me

Just admit that I educated you and you were wrong instead of asking silly questions.

superhumanist:


Just admit that I educated you and you were wrong instead of asking silly questions.

Ogbeni you that cannot even educate yourself now wants to educate me. LMAO chief jokester of nairaland

Let me make a fool of you now.
Slave trade was abolished in the United States in 1865 ----- how?

When did ingersoll start advocating for free speech, women's rights, and the rest? I want you to use your own hand and kill your own argument.

You never learn.

Superhumanist come and educate yourself with this little assignment

Butterflyleo:


Let me make a fool of you now.
Slave trade was abolished in the United States in 1865 ----- how?

When did ingersoll start advocating for free speech, women's rights, and the rest? I want you to use your own hand and kill your own argument.

You never learn.

I'm not going down this route with you. A simple research on his biography will show you that he had many liberal causes on his plate.

Go and read. Cure your ignorance

superhumanist:



I'm not going down this route with you. A simple research on his biography will show you that he had many liberal causes on his plate.

Go and read. Cure your ignorance

Hahahahaha oga answer my question and see your stupidity being made manifest to you like a slap to your face.

So now you cannot present facts to buttress your point despite me pointing you in the right direction?

Lmao I am beginning to think you are Jackbizzle reborn.

Butterflyleo:


Hahahahaha oga answer my question and see your stupidity being made manifest to you like a slap to your face.

So now you cannot present facts to buttress your point despite me pointing you in the right direction?

Lmao I am beginning to think you are Jackbizzle reborn.

First, the argument started from you and winner01 trying to deny that there were atheists/freethinkers who worked against slavery.

I gave you ingersoll who as an agnostic campaigned against slavery. You are here still asking me about Ingersoll. You cannot read the man's biography for yourself? You dey mad?