budaatum:

Yes 9inches. When people say they believe, that is just it - they simply believe, and without really thinking about or understanding or considering any alternative to what they believe.

And yes, I must understand before I believe. Believing what one does not understand implies childhoodness, which one is not anymore, and stupidity, in an adult - neither of which buda is.

The chance that you understand the root of the hierarchical values system and memes you act out/portray is almost zilch! This scientist says, "You think you're an atheist? You're a christian, judeo-christian... to the core. You just don't understand it, you just don't realize it."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enduikARwRw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjYQ48t4C8U

budaatum:
The truth does not have to be good or bad. The truth is simply validity, as in, it corresponds to fact.

How did this come about then?

budaatum:
Meanwhile, if there truly was an "absolute truth", and it was good....

budaatum:
As to research, try the first chapter of Brief History, Truth and [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universality_%28philosophy%29?wprov=sfla1]wiki[/url].

Read most Hawking's books many many years ago. I probably have read more science books than you, and I'm not including talking textbooks.

By the way, you said this,

budaatum:
Meanwhile, if there truly was an "absolute truth", and it was good, what makes you think you would be the one to have it to spread?

That was why I said this,

9inches:
I wonder what you think absolute truth is. Does truth have to be good or bad?

budaatum:

He accuses atheist of nothing from nothing belief. Did this thread not start with that idea being debunked? Are you in fact, not the one claiming some creator came from nothing preceeding it!? Is the argument not that something always precedes something?

He accuses atheists of something from nothing.

The argument is that something always come from something.

What idea was debunked here where you cited yourself?

budaatum:
I cite buda. Something had to exist to go bang (assuming there was a bang). It must have been a big thing that existed, hence big bang. And even if there were no bang and gods did it. They'd have had to have existed in order to create what didn't exist. And something must have existed to create the gods themselves, and something must have existed to create whatever created whatever created the gods, and something must have existed to create whatever created whatever created whatever created the gods, and something must have existed........ad infinitum.

That did not get to the root of the matter which I presented again.

9inches:
In short, when was the beginning of "something"?

budaatum:
Are you in fact, not the one claiming some creator came from nothing preceeding it!?

Not my exact word, but yeah...kinda. Although, there's problem with your word "preeceding". My sister preceded me but I did not come out of my sister. Got it?

"beget", "Come from" or other variants could properly fit.

"Nothing preceding (comes from) Something" means, that Something is

1. timeless... right?
2. always there... right?
3. ever existing... right?
4. self existing... right!?

[quote author9inches post=74649995]He accuses atheists of something from nothing?

What idea was debunked here where you cited yourself?
That did not get to the root of the matter which I presented again.[/quote]
So,you are still on this.

HellVictorinho:

Time can't be formed.

Who else believed this as you? Any scientist or atheist you could mention?

HellVictorinho:

Who is he?

This guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNP10IbzaBI

LordReed:


3. He doesn't say this was definitely how the universe came about but that this could have been a mechanism to bring it about. Besides these are occurring at quantum levels which do not translate to the same effect at the macro level.

His argument was that nothing isn't really nothing. Am I right?

9inches:
His argument was that nothing isn't really nothing. Am I right?

Yes

9inches:
Who else believed this as you? Any scientist or atheist you could mention?

TIME limits.
It can't be limited..
So the formation of time is an absurd concept.

9inches:
He accuses atheists of something from nothing?

The argument is that something always come from something.
What idea was debunked here where you cited yourself?
That did not get to the root of the matter which I presented again.

Which we agreed on, and I note the correction. The dude is claiming atheist believe something comes from nothing. This is not an atheist view.

9inches:

Not my exact word, but yeah...kinda. Although, there's problem with your word "preeceding". My sister preceded me but I did not come out of my sister. Got it?

"beget", "Come from" or other variants could properly fit.

Yeah, got it. Try with mother.

9inches:
"Nothing preceding (comes from) Something" means, that Something is

1. timeless... right?
2. always there... right?
3. ever existing... right?
4. self existing... right!?

And your creator of things comes from where?

LordReed:


Yes

Do you agree with him?

HellVictorinho:

TIME limits.
It can't be limited..
So the formation of time is an absurd concept.

According to who?

9inches:
How did this come about then?

It is true that I, buda wrote what you just read. It is absolutely true in fact, since no one else could have written it. And there is nothing good or bad about it. It's just simply the truth.

9inches:
Read most Hawking's books many many years ago. I probably have read more science books than you, and I'm not including talking textbooks.

That could also be true, though if it were true, I'd have to question your understanding of your reading! Why did you claim Hawking said "something from nothing" when he actually wrote "turtles all the way down"?

9inches:
By the way, you said this,That was why I said this,

Your point being?

9inches:

The argument is that something always come from something.

I believe we are still in agreement with this, as I pointed out with my citation from buda.


Though one of us seems to have an exception where something is believed to come from a timeless existing uncreated creator which came from nothing!

9inches:
Do you agree with him?

I don't have the expertise to agree or disagree but I accept the premise because it is based on observation.

budaatum:

Which we agreed on, and I note the correction. The dude is claiming atheist believe something comes from nothing. This is not an atheist view.

What's the atheist's view then?

budaatum:
Yeah, got it. Try with mother.

That's why I "kinda" agreed but I'm sure you've seen the problem with the word in this context.

And your creator of things comes from where?[/quote]He did not "come", he has always "been". The reality whose very nature is 'to be'.

budaatum:

It is true that I, buda wrote what you just read. It is absolutely true in fact, since no one else could have written it. And there is nothing good or bad about it. It's just simply the truth.

So you stand corrected?

budaatum:
That could also be true, though if it were true, I'd have to question your understanding of your reading! Why did you claim Hawking said "something from nothing" when he actually wrote "turtles all the way down"?

Because I provided evidence showing he said that.

budaatum:
Your point being?

The point that you were talking about "an" absolute truth rather than [the] absolute truth.

9inches:
What's the atheist's view then?

That is this atheist's view, that everything must come from something. Hence the "something must have existed to create the gods themselves, and something must have existed to create whatever created whatever created the gods, and something must have existed to create whatever created whatever created whatever created the gods, and something must have existed........ad infinitum."

However, all atheists have different views on the subject since we are not indoctrinated to hold the same views. But most who have considered it would, and will argue against the "something from nothing" view which is more the theists position.

9inches:

So you stand corrected?

Corrected at what? Was it not true that I wrote what your response above was to, just as much as it is absolutely true that you will be reading this, that I am about to post?

9inches:
Because I provided evidence showing he said that..

If you'd read his books, you'd know he didn't literally mean that.

9inches:
The point that you were talking about "an" absolute truth rather than [the] absolute truth.

Explain to me what "[the] absolute truth", is.

budaatum:

I believe we are still in agreement with this, as I pointed out with my citation from buda.


Though one of us seems to have an exception where something is believed to come from a timeless existing uncreated creator which came from nothing!

That would be you I guess. Am I right?

9inches:
That would be you I guess. Am I right?

That was me. We clarified that!

LordReed:


I don't have the expertise to agree or disagree but I accept the premise because it is based on observation.

Your observation?

9inches:
He did not "come", he has always "been". The reality whose very nature is 'to be'.

So, your creator of things came from nothing?

9inches:
Your observation?

No

budaatum:

That is this atheist's view, that everything must come from something. Hence the "something must have existed to create the gods themselves, and something must have existed to create whatever created whatever created the gods, and something must have existed to create whatever created whatever created whatever created the gods, and something must have existed........ad infinitum."

However, all atheists have different views on the subject since we are not indoctrinated to hold the same views. But most who have considered it would, and will argue against the "something from nothing" view which is more the theists position.

Does any other atheist share this your view of ad infinitum chain of existence?

9inches:


Does any other atheist share this your view of ad infinitum chain of existence?

There's sufficient sample for you to poll. Set up a thread and ask.

budaatum:

Corrected at what? Was it not true that I wrote what your response above was to, just as much as it is absolutely true that you will be reading this, that I am about to post?

Attributing an adjective (good) to absolute truth.

budaatum:
If you'd read his books, you'd know he didn't literally mean that.

Perhaps you haven't read The Grand Design.
Did he say anything different here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ88kC2Nx8M

budaatum:
Explain to me what "[the] absolute truth", is.

"the" means truth is without variables.

budaatum:

That was me. We clarified that!

Okay

budaatum:

So, your creator of things came from nothing?

No

LordReed:


No

Oh. Whose observation?

budaatum:

There's sufficient sample for you to poll. Set up a thread and ask.

A simple name would do here.

9inches:
No

Did your creator of things come from somewhere?