₦airaland Forum

mabea:
Guy the point you are making is very clear but people dont want to reason

The problem, i guess, is that people are ULTIMATELY not in support of realistic deregulation.

Nigerians, and their politicians prefer to use subsidy as a political football. Add the fact that most Nigerians want to pay low prices for fuel...no matter how much it costs to keep those prices low.

tactius:
Here is an explanation

In 2016, fuel cost 132 naira per liter to import.

We were selling it at 87 naira per liter

And we had low. Oil. Prices. Oil was selling at. 30 dollars per barrel.. We needed it to be above 100.dollars per barrel to earn enough to meet our needs.

Buhari raised prices to 145.Subsidy ended.

But when oil prices rose, landing.costsrose to 150 and kept rising.

Government then made NNPC the sole importer of fuel, and paid them money called under recovery, aka subsidies by another name.

The 10trillion is money paid from 2006 to 2018 for subsides.

By the way, paying subsidy is bad economics. But because Bubu wants to. Keep winning, he keeps paying.

you haven't still explain the fraud behind this current subsidy payment.... why re we paying subsidy higher dan when oil when oil was above $100. It means that by the time oil is 100$ we'll be paying in hundreds of billion... all the explanation you gave there are just normal English dey told us but the real tin is they re all scam

tactius:
To all those who complain about fuel subsidies and how Buhari is paying a scam.

If Buhari had stopped paying subsidies, and had stopped controlling the price of fuel and had allowed marketers to set prices.

Fuel would be selling at 220 and above by now.

And you people would be calling the government anti people.

But the truth is, subsidizing fuel needs to stop. The 10trillion we have spent since 2006 could have been used for other things.

Nawa for you ooooo,Buhari appointee .MINISTER OF DEFENCE

ojobek:
Nawa for you ooooo,Buhari appointee .MINISTER OF DEFENCE

You did not read the last line of the comment you quoted.

You know, the bit where i called subsidy a waste....which is an implied critique of Buhari.

In my opinion, Buhari should stop paying subsidy, and allow marketers set prices. But Buhari is a good poltician, and not necessarily a good leader.

A good leader would have removed subsides completely, which means increased investment.

But because people like you don't want to pay N200 and above for fuel, subsidy keeps on being paid.

I don't like APC. And their decison not to deregulate is one of many reasons why I did not back them in 2015 and this year. And neither is the PDP too commited to deregulation.

bilulu:
you haven't still explain the fraud behind this current subsidy payment.... why re we paying subsidy higher dan when oil when oil was above $100. It means that by the time oil is 100$ we'll be paying in hundreds of billion... all the explanation you gave there are just normal English dey told us but the real tin is they re all scam

I am not giving you the explanation to defend subsidy, I am giving you the reason why it should go.

It has to go because, as you said, it is a scam, and we need the money for other things like health, education and railways.

And I won't or can't answer your question, since I don't back subsidy payments, and never did since 2012.

tactius:
So, what is your alternative solution?

If we deregulate, sell Nnpc, prices would shoot up, but investment, local and foreign would. Increase, which. Would. Mean prices fall.

We. Saw this in the GSM industry

I particularly hate these type that speak English to try to cover our eyes the most! they see the obvious truth but are bound by some code not to acknowledge it.

You are not making sense my guy... Not at all.

Crude was over $100 and when Gej pushed for full subsidy removal, fuel could have been around 120 naira per litre. Yet he was attacked and vilified. I still shudder at the kind of propaganda that was launched against the man each time I remember it. He was called all sorts of names and that was how we became people who drag our president in the media. Apc taught us that!

Later a "Saint" comes in and Says subsidy payment is a scam. He took fuel to 145 naira per litre claiming we were no longer paying subsidy and there were no protests. All dissenting voices were shut down and threatened by the dss, police and the armed forces.

Today a barrel of crude is less than 100 usd which ordinarily should make petrol cheaper as the raw material crude oil is cheaper now. But instead, the government now says it pays more as subsidy even as we pay more for petrol. So who's fooling whom?

The whole process is now so shrouded in secrecy and it's even worse than when Gej was there and all you can say is this weak argument? We've paid more subsidizing fuel in buhari's 4 years than we did throughout Gej's tenure yet these senile ramblings are all you could conjure?

Your Mai gaskiya never had an ounce integrity, and never will. The joke is on y'all who actually believed him!

Peace!

Pamatips:
At the backdrop of the continued comatose state of the Nigeria’s local refining capacity, the country may have spent about N10 trillion in the provision of pump price subsidy on imported petroleum products from 2006 to 2018. fuel-pump A research report by BudgIT, a public finance focused Non-Governmental Organisation, NGO, said this amount came from the price shocks in the international energy market as well as the exchange volatility. However, the report also indicated that the subsidy regime has opened Nigeria’s public finance to huge corruption and illegal exportation of petroleum products to neighboring countries.

The report titled, “Nigeria’s Petrol Subsidy Regime: Dilemma of the World’s Most Populous Black Nation”, stated: “Nigeria currently imports an average of 91 percent of its daily petrol needs, thus disproportionately exposing local petrol prices to price shocks from international factors of production and exchange rate volatility. “There is a near perfectly inverse relationship between the fall in the value of Naira and the rise in the cost of imported petrol. That is, when next the Naira is devalued, Nigeria’s subsidy bill can be expected to jump.” It stated further: “The continuation of petrol price regulation perpetuates safety nests for exceptional forms of corruption within the country’s subsidy regime. Import subsidy creates petrol price arbitrage – the differential between the regulated price in Nigeria and the high petrol prices in neighbouring countries – which is big enough to incentivise smuggling of subsidized products to neighbouring border towns.” On the implication of the adverse development, the report stated: “BudgIT notes with dismay that fuel subsidy deprive Nigeria of funds needed for critical socio-economic development as it discourages investors, who generally prefer a deregulated industry, from investing in the downstream sector especially in the area of refinery construction and operation.

For instance, the 10 trillion consumed by the subsidy regime is sufficient to construct 27,000MW of electricity or build about 2,400 units of 1000-bed standard hospitals across 774 local government areas of Nigeria, found our research. “We equally note that the Nigerian masses worship low oil prices. More so, the political class fears that increases in petrol price (and in the cost of living by extension), occasioned by a deregulated price regime, and could become a flashpoint for mass uprisings and political instability. Nonetheless, we can never shy away from the opportunity cost of the corrupt subsidy regime.” Related NIGERIA’S FUEL SUBSIDY: A palliative, a burden

Source: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/04/nigeria-spends-n10trn-on-petrol-subsidy/

God will punish all ye hypocrites dat imposed this dullard on us..

tactius:
So, should Buhari stopg paying subsidy?

Big Yes n nnpc should stop d monopolizing ot selling fuel.. open d market to anyone that wants to do business . Den watch how price will drop on its own...
.Wat we need is the total deregulation of the downstream system of the oil and gas.

bishopkay:
I particularly hate these type that speak English to try to cover our eyes the most! they see the obvious truth but are bound by some code not to acknowledge it.

You are not making sense my guy... Not at all.

Crude was over $100 and when Gej pushed for full subsidy removal, fuel could have been around 120 naira per litre. Yet he was attacked and vilified. I still shudder at the kind of propaganda that was launched against the man each time I remember it. He was called all sorts of names and that was how we became people who drag our president in the media. Apc taught us that!

Later a "Saint" comes in and Says subsidy payment is a scam. He took fuel to 145 naira per litre claiming we were no longer paying subsidy and there were no protests. All dissenting voices were shut down and threatened by the dss, police and the armed forces.

Today a barrel of crude is less than 100 usd which ordinarily should make petrol cheaper as the raw material crude oil is cheaper now. But instead, the government now says it pays more as subsidy even as we pay more for petrol. So who's fooling whom?

The whole process is now so shrouded in secrecy and it's even worse than when Gej was there and all you can say is this weak argument? We've paid more subsidizing fuel in buhari's 4 years than we did throughout Gej's tenure yet these senile ramblings are all you could conjure?

Your Mai gaskiya never had an ounce integrity, and never will. The joke is on y'all who actually believed him!

Peace!

I have believed in deregulation sice 2012.

And i backed GEJ BACK THEN over deregulation. I was not his supporter...but when you see a good idea...forget about the bearer of the idea and accept it.

Now, apologize for your mistaken ideas. I also don't support APC since they won't deregulate.

Pavarottii:
Big Yes n nnpc should keep up selling fuel.. open d market to anyone that wan dc to do business . Den watch how price Droping

One million likes for your post.

Too bad Nigerians can't see that.

tactius:
You did not read the last line of the comment you quoted.

You know, the bit where i called subsidy a waste....which is an implied critique of Buhari.

In my opinion, Buhari should stop paying subsidy, and allow marketers set prices. But Buhari is a good poltician, and not necessarily a good leader.


A good leader would have removed subsides completely, which means increased investment.

But because people like you don't want to pay N200 and above for fuel, subsidy keeps on being paid.

I don't like APC. And their decison not to deregulate is one of many reasons why I did not back them in 2015 and this year. And neither is the PDP too commited to deregulation.

Oga u be mumu

Heffe:
Oga u be mumu

Good morning, and good luck to you.

tactius:
So, should Buhari stop paying subsidy?

if someone says subsidy is a scam, what is he then paying for. why paying for a scam

tactius:
So, you agree government should let fuel prices rise by ceasing the payment of under recovery?

I think they should, but you people don't want to pay 200 per liter and above re fuel. That's why government is paying under recovery.

Bros that’s not the solution, the solution is to build a functional refinery here.

geefasee:
if someone says subsidy is a scam, what is he then paying for. why paying for a scam

So, you would accept Buhari doing the right thing, and ending payment for the scam...because it is a scam....and allowing prices to increase to N200 AND above per liter of fuel.

Me, I think that the scam should have gone since 2012., if not earlier.

tactius:
I have believed in deregulation sice 2012.

And i backed GEJ BACK THEN over deregulation. I was not his supporter...but when you see a good idea...forget about the bearer of the idea and accept it.

Now, apologize for your mistaken ideas. I also don't support APC since they won't deregulate.

Haha I apologize friend. My bad. Your earliest posts didn't seem in that direction so I thought you were one of our resident BMC guys.

I just want what's best for the country and I hate hypocrisy.

tactius:
So, should Buhari stop paying subsidy?

Yes his a fraudster remember they increase fuel from 87 to 145 so that subsidy will over so why are they still paying now Despite d increase !!! Scam govt

Kfed4ril:
Bros that’s not the solution, the solution is to build a functional refinery here.

Actually the only way refinereis can be built is by deregulation.

We need 4 new Dangote type refineries to take care of our fuel needs. A new refinery costs $10billion USD. Our reserves are around 40 billion USD.

Oil is selling at $68 per barrel, and we need it to be selling at $140 per barrel to meet all our needs without taking loans.

And it isn't just building refineries, we have to maintain them

Truth is, by removing subsidies, we attract investment, local and foreign that means more refienries, and eventually prices of fuel fall.

Subsidy removal means government stops setting prices, and stops paying subsidy, ans uses the money for funding things like educaiton, etc.

maxzzo1:
Yes his a fraudster remember they increase fuel from 87 to 145 so that subsidy will over so why are they still paying now Despite d increase !!! Scam govt

YES, that is why subsidy should go.

If subsidy had gone in 2012...or even in 2006 when it was proposed by the Obasanjo government, we would not be having all these issues by now.

(I have explained why prices went up from N87 TO N145 earlier....see some of my earlier posts. ).

Pamatips:
At the backdrop of the continued comatose state of the Nigeria’s local refining capacity, the country may have spent about N10 trillion in the provision of pump price subsidy on imported petroleum products from 2006 to 2018. fuel-pump A research report by BudgIT, a public finance focused Non-Governmental Organisation, NGO, said this amount came from the price shocks in the international energy market as well as the exchange volatility. However, the report also indicated that the subsidy regime has opened Nigeria’s public finance to huge corruption and illegal exportation of petroleum products to neighboring countries.

The report titled, “Nigeria’s Petrol Subsidy Regime: Dilemma of the World’s Most Populous Black Nation”, stated: “Nigeria currently imports an average of 91 percent of its daily petrol needs, thus disproportionately exposing local petrol prices to price shocks from international factors of production and exchange rate volatility. “There is a near perfectly inverse relationship between the fall in the value of Naira and the rise in the cost of imported petrol. That is, when next the Naira is devalued, Nigeria’s subsidy bill can be expected to jump.” It stated further: “The continuation of petrol price regulation perpetuates safety nests for exceptional forms of corruption within the country’s subsidy regime. Import subsidy creates petrol price arbitrage – the differential between the regulated price in Nigeria and the high petrol prices in neighbouring countries – which is big enough to incentivise smuggling of subsidized products to neighbouring border towns.” On the implication of the adverse development, the report stated: “BudgIT notes with dismay that fuel subsidy deprive Nigeria of funds needed for critical socio-economic development as it discourages investors, who generally prefer a deregulated industry, from investing in the downstream sector especially in the area of refinery construction and operation.

For instance, the 10 trillion consumed by the subsidy regime is sufficient to construct 27,000MW of electricity or build about 2,400 units of 1000-bed standard hospitals across 774 local government areas of Nigeria, found our research. “We equally note that the Nigerian masses worship low oil prices. More so, the political class fears that increases in petrol price (and in the cost of living by extension), occasioned by a deregulated price regime, and could become a flashpoint for mass uprisings and political instability. Nonetheless, we can never shy away from the opportunity cost of the corrupt subsidy regime.” Related NIGERIA’S FUEL SUBSIDY: A palliative, a burden

Source: https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/04/nigeria-spends-n10trn-on-petrol-subsidy/

'
'Nigeria is subsidizing inefficiency'- Peter Obi

tactius:
To all those who complain about fuel subsidies and how Buhari is paying a scam.

If Buhari had stopped paying subsidies, and had stopped controlling the price of fuel and had allowed marketers to set prices.

Fuel would be selling at 220 and above by now.

And you people would be calling the government anti people.

But the truth is, subsidizing fuel needs to stop. The 10trillion we have spent since 2006 could have been used for other things.

You people should stop all this hypocrisy.

How many of you reasoned and said the same during Goodluck regime??

Most people trying to justify Buhari payment of subsidy came all out to condemn Goodluck for this same reason. ..

Truly we've all seems to lost our senses.

So, should Buhari stop paying subsidy?

Did he acknowledge that it was legit?

tactius:
Here is an explanation

In 2016, fuel cost 132 naira per liter to import.

We were selling it at 87 naira per liter

And we had low. Oil. Prices. Oil was selling at. 30 dollars per barrel.. We needed it to be above 100.dollars per barrel to earn enough to meet our needs.

Buhari raised prices to 145.Subsidy ended.

But when oil prices rose, landing.costsrose to 150 and kept rising.

Government then made NNPC the sole importer of fuel, and paid them money called under recovery, aka subsidies by another name.

The 10trillion is money paid from 2006 to 2018 for subsides.

By the way, paying subsidy is bad economics. But because Bubu wants to. Keep winning, he keeps paying.

I still don't get your logic... if we needed oil price too be $100 when it was $30... how come when it increased nothing changed??

GolDRoger:
I remember buhari saying that
subsidy is a scam
that his government will remove it, that was in 2015

can i shock you??
Buhari's government has ended up paying more in fuel subsidy that GEJ did

#Hypocrite If something is a scam why venturing into it? Then if you knew that it was not scam and you said it in order to gain something for your self then that is hypocrisy and lies and therefore all about your government is nothing but scam

samintegrity:
You people should stop all this hypocrisy.

How many of you reasoned and said the same during Goodluck regime??

Most people trying to justify Buhari payment of subsidy came all out to condemn Goodluck for this same reason. ..

Truly we've all seems to lost our senses.

Have been following this subsidy thing since 1993, and intially, I was a supporter of subsides. Until 2012...when GEJ came along with his plan

If you remember , there were a series of adverts which explained what GEJ was trying to do with subsidy removal. Those adverts, as well as my own personal research, convinced me that removing subsidy was a good idea (and mind you I was and still am a PDP opponent. Did not make me support APC either...especially when Tam David-West came up with is riddiculous N40 per liter suggestion...).

Since 2012, I have been a supporter of subsidy removal.

Buhari? He did partially right when he increased prices from N87 to N145. (at a time when we were importing fuel at N132 per liter.). But even I knew that the subsidy was still there because...Buhari was still setting the price...and because what he did is something that Nigerian leaders have been doing since the 1970's....when subsidy becomes unsustainable...raise the price, take off pressure...till it becomes unsustainable again.

And true...when landing costs went up to N150...AND KEPT going up....the subsidy reappeared (wow...dejavu).

Government pays subsides because Nigerians don't want to pay higher for fuel. See how Nigerians portested GEJ's price raise, despite all the explaining? See how Nigerians complain about Bubu's partial removal too? Under a situation of true subsidy removal..there would be a revolt.

So we keep on paying subsidy because politicians prefer power to sensible decisions.

emae009:
I still don't get your logic... if we needed oil price too be $100 when it was $30... how come when it increased nothing changed??

Because the government is not practicng true subsidy removal.

If they were, there would have been an icnrease in investment, an intial price hike...but eventually prices would have fallen

If Nigerians and the APC (CPC and ACN ) HAD supported fuel subsidy removal in 2012...we would have been seeing the benefits by now

tactius:
To all those who complain about fuel subsidies and how Buhari is paying a scam.

If Buhari had stopped paying subsidies, and had stopped controlling the price of fuel and had allowed marketers to set prices.

Fuel would be selling at 220 and above by now.

And you people would be calling the government anti people.

But the truth is, subsidizing fuel needs to stop. The 10trillion we have spent since 2006 could have been used for other things.

Oga I remembered that subsidy was removed last time under this government, that was why we are buying fuel now at #145

tactius:
To all those who complain about fuel subsidies and how Buhari is paying a scam.

If Buhari had stopped paying subsidies, and had stopped controlling the price of fuel and had allowed marketers to set prices.

Fuel would be selling at 220 and above by now.

And you people would be calling the government anti people.

But the truth is, subsidizing fuel needs to stop. The 10trillion we have spent since 2006 could have been used for other things.

also remember, that in one year of ineffectual buffoon, 2.6 tr naira subsidy scam is part of the 10tr in 12yrs,
and buhari has paid upto 1.5tr naira in 4yrs of the total 12yrs of 10tr naira.

buhariguy:
also remember, that in one year of ineffectual buffoon, 2.6 tr naira subsidy scam is part of the 10tr in 12yrs,
and buhari has paid upto 1.5tr naira in 4yrs of the total 12yrs of 10tr naira.

And the buffon and the lifeless one would have saved that money if subsidy had gone in 2012...and if Nigerians had been wise enough to see the benefits of subsidy removal in 2012.

tactius:
I am not giving you the explanation to defend subsidy, I am giving you the reason why it should go.

It has to go because, as you said, it is a scam, and we need the money for other things like health, education and railways.

And I won't or can't answer your question, since I don't back subsidy payments, and never did since 2012.

My brother i guess we are on same page, subsidy need to go because it's been used to defraud Nigerians. We missed it when it was removed in 2011 when life was still a bit fair. Now these guy dat protested it den are paying more dan what the previous paid. This govt should come out clean but i doubt they won't because they are fraud personified.

tactius:
Have been following this subsidy thing since 1993, and intially, I was a supporter of subsides. Until 2012...when GEJ came along with his plan

If you remember , there were a series of adverts which explained what GEJ was trying to do with subsidy removal. Those adverts, as well as my own personal research, convinced me that removing subsidy was a good idea (and mind you I was and still am a PDP opponent. Did not make me support APC either...especially when Tam David-West came up with is riddiculous N40 per liter suggestion...).

Since 2012, I have been a supporter of subsidy removal.

Buhari? He did partially right when he increased prices from N87 to N145. (at a time when we were importing fuel at N132 per liter.). But even I knew that the subsidy was still there because...Buhari was still setting the price...and because what he did is something that Nigerian leaders have been doing since the 1970's....when subsidy becomes unsustainable...raise the price, take off pressure...till it becomes unsustainable again.

And true...when landing costs went up to N150...AND KEPT going up....the subsidy reappeared (wow...dejavu).

Government pays subsides because Nigerians don't want to pay higher for fuel. See how Nigerians portested GEJ's price raise, despite all the explaining? See how Nigerians complain about Bubu's partial removal too? Under a situation of true subsidy removal..there would be a revolt.

So we keep on paying subsidy because politicians prefer power to sensible decisions.

God bless your wisdom sir.