tintingz:


It's a believe system, like I said it's an illusion.

So, Muslims believe "Allah laws is the absolute authority" but they ignore it because it is an illusion?

Good for you.

[img]https://images./2KqCjPGOGL6Ky01TRGdFVC.jpg[/img]

[img]https://images./5gE43z2Hhc7tv09O1PxEtG.jpg[/img]

tartar9:

Did I say they are still practiced
That they no longer practice it still doesnt changes the fact that it exists in their religions.The same way Israel and other xtian countries recognize gay marrriages and are actively promoting it.
We Muslims shall remain true to our faith.

Sick people with sick brains

budaatum:

So, Muslims believe "Allah laws is the absolute authority" but they ignore it because it is an illusion?

No, they did not ignore it, it just cannot be put in practice, why do you think Muslim terrorists and non-terrorists are fighting for Sharia law to be all over the places?

tintingz:


No, they did not ignore it, it just cannot be put in practice, why do you think Muslim terrorists and non-terrorists are fighting for Sharia law to be all over?

Tingz! Do "terrorists and non-terrorists fighting for Sharia law" believe, think, see, "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

I better help you here before you rush to respond as you so often do. Please consider carefully, I have immense faith in you.

Is anything a terrorist does "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

budaatum:

Tingz! Do "terrorists and non-terrorists fighting for Sharia law" believe, think, see, "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

I better help you here before you rush to respond as you so often do. Please consider carefully, I have immense faith in you.

Is anything a terrorist does "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

Have you read Muslim terrorists manifesto like the Boko Haram?

Ask any Muslim if he/she hold Sharia to be absolute authority and wish Sharia law to prevail everywhere.

tintingz:


Have you read Muslim terrorists manifesto like the Boko Haram?

Ask any Muslim if he/she hold Sharia to be absolute authority and wish Sharia law to prevail everywhere.

Is terrorism "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

budaatum:

Is terrorism "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

Nope.

Muslim terrorists just want it to prevail using violent/force.

The past Muslims did it by conquest and establishing caliphates in regions.

tintingz:


Nope.

Muslim terrorists just want it to prevail using violent/force.

The past Muslims did it by conquest and establishing caliphates in regions.

So, just so we are clear, whatever terrorists do has nothing to do with "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

budaatum:

So, just so we are clear, whatever terrorists do has nothing to do with "Allah laws is the absolute authority"?

One of the tenets in Islam is to believe Allah's law is the absolute authority.

So basically every Muslims believe in this, but some Muslims want to use violent to make this happen.

tintingz:
One of the tenets in Islam is to believe Allah's law is the absolute authority.

So basically every Muslims believe in this, but some Muslims want to use violent to make this happen.

I can be a Muslim, "believe Allah's law is the absolute authority" and be an armed robber, murderer or a terrorist. Please tell me if my belief that "Allah's law is the absolute authority" is a valid belief of mine.

budaatum:

I can be a Muslim, "believe Allah's law is the absolute authority" and be an armed robber, murderer or a terrorist. Please tell me if my belief that "Allah's law is the absolute authority" is a valid belief of mine.

It's valid if you're doing it for that cause (Allah's law is the absolute authority).

Budatuum and tintingz, what are you guys talking about?

tintingz:


It's valid if you're doing it for that cause (Allah's law is the absolute authority).

If I an armed robber, murderer or a terrorist, you tingz, will accept that "Allah's law is the absolute authority" to me if I claim it is?

JeromeBlack:
Budatuum and tintingz, what are you guys talking about?

Read from where we started. We need help understanding each other.

budaatum:

Read from where we started. We need help understanding each other.

Actually it started Here

Cc. JeromeBlack

tintingz:


Actually it started Here

Cc. JeromeBlack

Indeed it did. Ta.

budaatum:

If I an armed robber, murderer or a terrorist, you tingz, will accept that "Allah's law is the absolute authority" to me if I claim it is?

Yes, If you are Muslim of course I will take it that Allah's law is the absolute authority in your belief.

I think we're going in circle. I've responded to your questions accordingly.

tintingz:


Yes, If you are Muslim of course I will take it that Allah's law is the absolute authority in your belief.

I think we're going in circle. I've responded to your questions accordingly.

Allah's law says one must not kill. How can a person to whom "Allah's law is absolute authority" kill?

budaatum:

Allah's law says one must not kill. How can a person to whom "Allah's law is absolute authority" kill?

There's sin and breaking the Sharia law.

tintingz:


There's sin and breaking the Sharia law.

So, one can believe "Allah's law is the absolute authority" and sin against the "Allah's law is the absolute authority". I'll agree. I'm imperfect after all and will often sin despite my "Allah's law is the absolute authority", but rob, murder and terrorise" tingz? Perhaps it's I that sees improperly.

If I were a Muslim, as in a person who lives their life according to the understanding that "there is no god/God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet" , and if that understanding truly did, which it ought to, lead me to acknowledge "Allah's law is the absolute authority", I would live according to my understanding of that "Allah's law is the absolute authority" which would include 'do not "rob, murder or terrorise".

I also think that anyone who has any understanding of Islam and being a Muslim who sees me robbing, murdering or a terrorising, would say "buda, despite claiming to believe "Allah's law is the absolute authority", most definitely does not live according to said "Allah's law is the absolute authority", and is either deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant or trying to deceive others, and is evil!"

There is absolutely no way I, or any reasonable person who has any knowledge of Islam and being a Muslim and living their life according to the understanding that "there is no god/God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet", and understands that "Allah's law is the absolute authority", could accept that "robbing, murdering or terrorising" is "Allah's law is the absolute authority", is my point here tingz.

What do you think?

budaatum:

So, one can believe "Allah's law is the absolute authority" and sin against the "Allah's law is the absolute authority". I'll agree. I'm imperfect after all and will often sin despite my "Allah's law is the absolute authority", but rob, murder and terrorise" tingz? Perhaps it's I that sees improperly.

If I were a Muslim, as in a person who lives their life according to the understanding that "there is no god/God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet" , and if that understanding truly did, which it ought to, lead me to acknowledge "Allah's law is the absolute authority", I would live according to my understanding of that "Allah's law is the absolute authority" which would include 'do not "rob, murder or terrorise".

I also think that anyone who has any understanding of Islam and being a Muslim who sees me robbing, murdering or a terrorising, would say "buda, despite claiming to believe "Allah's law is the absolute authority", most definitely does not live according to said "Allah's law is the absolute authority", and is either deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant or trying to deceive others, and is evil!"

There is absolutely no way I, or any reasonable person who has any knowledge of Islam and being a Muslim and living their life according to the understanding that "there is no god/God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet", and understands that "Allah's law is the absolute authority", could accept that "robbing, murdering or terrorising" is "Allah's law is the absolute authority", is my point here tingz.

What do you think?

You're mixing things up.

The main purpose of Allah giving absolute laws is because he's said to be the source of morality and humans are not perfect and can err, now to control this he gave laws and consequences.

If Allah said don't steal and you steal, there's consequences according Sharia and in afterlife.

There are good Muslims and there bad Muslims, if terrorists can find justification from Allah's law to terrorize the society then they see themselves good and doing the will of Allah.

Now the reason I said absolute law from Allah is an illusion is because In reality laws are subjective or let's say intersubjective.

tintingz:
You're mixing things up.

The main purpose of is because he's said to be the source of morality and humans are not perfect and can err, now to control this he gave laws and consequences.

If Allah said don't steal and you steal, there's consequences according Sharia and in afterlife.

There are good Muslims and there bad Muslims, if terrorists can find justification from Allah's law to terrorize the society then they see themselves good and doing the will of Allah.

Now the reason I said absolute law from Allah is an illusion is because In reality laws are subjective or let's say intersubjective.

You've done this before tingz, create an illusory idea of a reality in your own head then claim it is the reality in other people's head. Go through our history, you'll see I mentioned it at the time.

Laws are indeed subjective, whether you decide to call or know them as subjective or attempt to objectify them by claiming they are "Allah giving absolute laws" or not, but I am absolutely certain most places laws are against terrorism whether you decide some stupid ignorant understanding of God was involved or not.

Sharia law itself is human made subjective law, and not, Allah's, and even calling what could stand so close to be Allah's Law, the Quran, is not "Law", but so much more than just "Law". Read it written in Surah Al-Fatihah

"Guide us (O' Lord) on the Straight Path."
"The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed Thy bounties, not (the path) of those inflicted with Thy wrath, nor (of those) gone astray."

A "guide", so you don't go "astray". And not only in action, tingz, but in thought and reasoning and very most especially in speech and in what one writes, a lesson taught to you very early in the five times a day wudu to imprint in you guidance on the Straight Path.

That guidance is not an illusion except to those who didn't learn it properly. To those who learnt not the proper lesson of wudu and who turn to terrorism do most definitely not live according to "Allah's law is the absolute authority", and are "deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant or trying to deceive others, and evil", and I now add, should be shot!

Terrorists has no justification from Allah's law to terrorize the society tingz. Nothing about Allah is so subjective nor intersubjective that terrorist is Allah's anything except to the deluded as you rightly state. You should think of them as led by shaitan in fact, the exact opposite of following Allah!

budaatum:

You've done this before tingz, create an illusory idea of a reality in your own head then claim it is the reality in other people's head. Go through our history, you'll see I mentioned it at the time.

Sigh. Here we go again.

Laws are indeed subjective, whether you decide to call or know them as subjective or attempt to objectify them by claiming they are "Allah giving absolute laws" or not, but I am absolutely certain most places laws are against terrorism whether you decide some stupid ignorant understanding of God was involved or not.

During the caliphates era, terrorizing people's land is normal. Same for the British colonial era. They use God to justify their actions.

Sharia law itself is human made subjective law, and not, Allah's, and even calling what could stand so close to be Allah's Law, the Quran, is not "Law", but so much more than just "Law". Read it written in Surah Al-Fatihah

"Guide us (O' Lord) on the Straight Path."
"The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed Thy bounties, not (the path) of those inflicted with Thy wrath, nor (of those) gone astray."

A "guide", so you don't go "astray". And not only in action, tingz, but in thought and reasoning and very most especially in speech and in what one writes, a lesson taught to you very early in the five times a day wudu to imprint in you guidance on the Straight Path.

You presented the Sharia law definition, can you again define where Sharia law is derive from?

Yes Sharia law is man-made so also other Islamic manuscripts, but Muslims believe they are divine and absolute.

That guidance is not an illusion except to those who didn't learn it properly. To those who learnt not the proper lesson of wudu and who turn to terrorism do most definitely not live according to "Allah's law is the absolute authority", and are "deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant or trying to deceive others, and evil", and I now add, should be shot!

Who then learned it properly?

Hope you're not committing "no true Scotsman fallacy" here?

Terrorists has no justification from Allah's law to terrorize the society tingz. Nothing about Allah is so subjective nor intersubjective that terrorist is Allah's anything except to the deluded as you rightly state. You should think of them as led by shaitan in fact, the exact opposite of following Allah!

Have you read Muslim terrorists speech?

They justify their actions with the Qur'an and hadiths, that it's Allah's will they are doing and any Muslim that is against them or doesn't join them are their enemies and not true Muslims, infact the Muslims that didn't join them are with Shaitan a.k.a government, the west etc.

Read Shekau the Boko Haram leader speech here.

tintingz:

Have you read Muslim terrorists speech?

They justify their actions with the Qur'an and hadiths, that it's Allah's will they are doing and any Muslim that is against them or doesn't join them are their enemies and not true Muslims, infact the Muslims that didn't join them are with Shaitan a.k.a government, the west etc.

Read Shekau the Boko Haram leader speech here.

"Muslims that didn't join terrorist are with Shaitan" according to Allah Law, tingz, or according to the subjective opinion of "deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant or trying to deceive others and evil", and I now add, should be shot", terrorists?

budaatum:


"Muslims that didn't join terrorist are with Shaitan" according to Allah Law, tingz, or according to the subjective opinion of "deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant or trying to deceive others and evil", and I now add, should be shot", terrorists?

It has to do with the interpretations of the Islamic texts.

tintingz:


It has to do with the interpretations of the Islamic texts.

No! Tingz! It has nothing to do with any false subjective interpretations that any individual chooses to place on top of the Islamic text!

It has to do with a proper understanding of those Islamic texts!

It is for this very reason that we say, "I believe that there is no god/God but Allah, and that only God is according to the understanding handed to me through the Prophet", and not as subjectively interpreted by some deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant deceiving others, evil, should be shot, terrorist!

budaatum:

No! Tingz! It has nothing to do with any false subjective interpretations that any individual chooses to place on top of the Islamic text!

It has to do with a proper understanding of those Islamic texts!

It is for this very reason that we say, "I believe that there is no god/God but Allah, and that only God is according to the understanding handed to me through the Prophet", and not as subjectively interpreted by some deluded, mentally deranged, just plain stupid and ignorant deceiving others, evil, should be shot, terrorist!

Interpretations are subjective, each parties will never accept they are wrong as long as they keep interpreting the Islamic texts to justify their beliefs.

tintingz:


Interpretations are subjective, each parties will never accept they are wrong as long as they keep interpreting the Islamic texts to justify their beliefs.

There is a standard by which intelligent people get to ensure they do not lead themselves and others astray with false justifications based of subjective interpretations tingz, or did you not learn the meaning of "Peace be upon The Prophet Muhammad" when you were a Muslim?

It is precisely to remove invalid subjective understandings that immense critical scholarship arose in Islam. If you knew anything about such scholarship you would understand its influence on western thought. But nothing! You present the entirety of Islam as the most fundamental of possible beliefs with disregard that people here are educated and have brains.

The unfortunate thing here is that you rubbish that which you lack knowledge of tingz. You measure against an understanding of all that you know as Islam and presume that your own limited understanding is everyone elses understanding. Surely there must be some to whom run means run much slower than your run and its possible some's run is faster than your own run, a fact you fail to consider.

My point is made and I know it is clearly seen it, so until there is something positive to be gained by further responding on this, the Graces of Allah be upon you and Peace.

budaatum:

There is a standard by which intelligent people get to ensure they do not lead themselves and others astray with false justifications based of subjective interpretations tingz, or did you not learn the meaning of "Peace be upon The Prophet Muhammad" when you were a Muslim?

It is precisely to remove invalid subjective understandings that immense critical scholarship arose in Islam. If you knew anything about such scholarship you would understand its influence on western thought. But nothing! You present the entirety of Islam as the most fundamental of possible beliefs with disregard that people here are educated and have brains.

The unfortunate thing here is that you rubbish that which you lack knowledge of tingz. You measure against an understanding of all that you know as Islam and presume that your own limited understanding is everyone elses understanding. Surely there must be some to whom run means run much slower than your run and its possible some's run is faster than your own run, a fact you fail to consider.

My point is made and I know it is clearly seen it, so until there is something positive to be gained by further responding on this, the Graces of Allah be upon you and Peace.

Lol.

It seems you didn't get my premises well.

As for run is run, it's not about maybe one should run fast or slow but changing the statement into another thing, like saying "oh believers run" in a verse and they interpret to "oh believers increase in your faith or to think fast." That is what I meant by interpretations.

Saucyxo:


Hmm. Revelation of age usually leads to assumptions about my ability to understand and be open minded.

Where are you?

tintingz:


Lol.

It seems you didn't get my premises well.

As for run is run, it's not about maybe one should run fast or slow but changing the statement into another thing, like saying "oh believers run" in a verse and they interpret to "oh believers increase in your faith or to think fast." That is what I meant by interpretations.

Context, and individual understanding, is what determines meaning. In particular contexts, "oh believers run" may mean "oh believers increase in your faith and think fast." You know this tingz. It's the only reason you'd even suggest it. I'm absolutely certain we'd argue if anyone interpreted it as "oh believers sit on your ass and refuse to use your brain". It's all about intention see. For scriptural interpretation to be right it has to abide by certain principles.

Let me try out an interpretation on you. Genesis 1:28 reads:

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Pretty straightforward you'd say. Now try this: Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground. And God will bless you.

Would you argue that my interpretation is not true or that that is precisely not how things actually work? Is it not true that if one does not "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." No God will bless one? If you think not, you try it and see. It's however not how many see it though, with most thinking they can sit on their ass and feed on manna.

Let's try another more controversial one.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

One would think eating the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil ought to make one know what good and evil tastes like and help one know the difference between the two. But here is God allegedly stating that if you remain ignorant you will live. Imagine if I claimed that's not God speaking and what's happened here is:

A group among them have twisted their tongues with the book, that you may suppose it to be from the book. But it is not from the book. And they say, “It is from God,” though it is not from God. And they knowingly speak a lie against God. Sura 3:78

After all, we go on to read that they did not certainly die, and "when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Now tell, would you not claim I am advocating the worship of a snake?

Yet, hear Jesus himself stating:

"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. John 14:11

Essentially, if you can't believe what you read at least do not deny the evidence that is before your eyes.

So, let's check the evidence. Did Adam and Eve's eyes not open when they ate of the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil so they saw they were naked? Did they die?

Now imagine I twist the meaning of words to such an extent to imply that Adam and Eve's eyes did not open and they died when they ate of the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil, would I not be lying, or at the very least, be twisting God into my own ignorant understanding? Yet I bet you that's the understanding many get from the text, which if you doubt can be tested by posting this in the Christian section and watch how many stone me.

And yet here is Jesus parroting Satan and [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+82%3A6&version=KJV]Psalm 82:6[/url] saying:

is it not [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+10%3A34-38&version=NIV;KJV]written in your law[/url], I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Sounds like what a snake said to me. Or is there no similarity between the above and "when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Or would one argue that one can be like God if one does not know what good and evil tastes like? Jesus sure went about opening [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+20%3A29-34%2CMark+10%3A46-52%2CLuke+18%3A35-43&version=NIV]eyes[/url] and teaching the difference between good and evil!

I've repeatedly pointed out to you, God did not write the Quran. The Angel Gabriel told the Prophet Mohammad who could not write who then recited it to his followers who eventually wrote it down on camel bones. You're going to have to forgive me for assuming a snake who could meddle with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden would not have meddled with whatever we may understand to be the Word of God. For in truth, that which we call God's Word is no better than mere mud until one breaths the breathe of understanding in to it. It is for us therefore to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil so we can determine the difference between the two or our understanding would be wonky to say the least and we remain stupid and ignorant and most certainly die!

As to what the fruit of a tree of knowledge of good and evil might be, I just love how Christ put it, or rather, my own interpretation of how Christ put [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A4&version=KJV]it[/url]:

Thou shalt not just accept one single view that some people give of things or one will be malnourished!

It's why we have brains tingz. And it's why I discuss with you too. For in all honesty, "use your brain" is what you are asking people to do in just about every post of yours that I've read and its why most treat you as we treat Jesus Christ. Except you yourself are not as smart in your doings thank God. Or we would have crucified you by now and made you god tingz!