shadeyinka:

You are NOT a disciple of Christ. You are a disciple of the governing body of the Jehovah's Witness/Watchtower Organisation!

The Unity and Love is the one and only evidence of Christ's backing Sir. John 13:34-35, 17:20-23

So those Governing Body are TRUE servants of the one and only spirit son of God that can unite stubborn descendants of Adam and turn them to one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers in this end time Sir! Luke 12:42-44

Maximus69:


The Unity and Love is the one and only evidence of Christ's backing Sir. John 13:34-35, 17:20-23

So those Governing Body are TRUE servants of the one and only spirit son of God that can unite stubborn descendants of Adam and turn them to one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers in this end time Sir! Luke 12:42-44

Your cult and affiliation is useless to God. God cares more about YOU than your association
John 3:16:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Whosoever has no connection to your manmade organisation

shadeyinka:

Your cult and affiliation is useless to God. God cares more about YOU than your association
John 3:16:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Whosoever has no connection to your manmade organisation

Whosoever believe

Do you believe Jesus' followers must have deep love amongst themselves and be united AS HE SAID?

Òpònú Olódo!

What exactly do you believe in the person you can't see?

Is it not for you to be diligent and observe the fulfilment of his words?

Jesus said blessed are those who didn't have the opportunity to see him in person but believe him through the words of his followers {John 17:20} so neither you nor i have seen Jesus, i believe in the words pen down by his followers that Jesus' true followers will be united in love, but you've been arguing profusely against the idea, yet you say you're for the same Jesus, when you don't have anything similar to all that he promised except the deceptive signs that Jesus himself said Satan's agents will be exhibiting to deceive people!

Maximus69:


Whosoever believe

Do you believe Jesus' followers must have deep love amongst themselves and be united AS HE SAID?

Òpònú Olódo!

What exactly do you believe in the person you can't see?

Is it not for you to be diligent and observe the fulfilment of his words?

Jesus said blessed are those who didn't have the opportunity to see him in person but believe him through the words of his followers {John 17:20} so neither you nor i have seen Jesus, i believe in the words pen down by his followers that Jesus' true followers will be united in love, but you've been arguing profusely against the idea, yet you say you're for the same Jesus, when you don't have anything similar to all that he promised except the deceptive signs that Jesus himself said Satan's agents will be exhibiting to deceive people!

Thank you!

By their FRUIT ye shall know them!

shadeyinka:

Thank you!

By their FRUIT ye shall know them!

Jehovah's Witnesses have that FRUIT in abundance and everyone can see it!

Maximus69:


Jehovah's Witnesses have that FRUIT in abundance and everyone can see it!

Maximus69:

....
Òpònú Olódo!
...

Matt 5:22:
"but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

I say again, By their FRUIT ye shall know them!

shadeyinka:



Matt 5:22:
"but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

I say again, By their FRUIT ye shall know them!

First of all you are NOT my brother!

Secondly the quotation specifically say WITHOUT A CAUSE

You are insulting my commander in Chief by saying he has no VISIBLE army! Jesus is the commander in Chief of all the heavenly host, his heavenly angelic armies are the ones organizing and directing his spiritual soldiers on planet earth.

Ordinary human army commanders are rated by the force they command, but you are saying Jesus the commander in Chief of all the armies of God has no physical soldiers that are well organized for recognition!

Of course you're worse than a Confused Dullard (Òpònú Olódo), if there could be anything worse than that, you're Sir.

Maximus69:


First of all you are NOT my brother!

Secondly the quotation specifically say WITHOUT A CAUSE

You are insulting my commander in Chief by saying he has no VISIBLE army! Jesus is the commander in Chief of all the heavenly host, his heavenly angelic armies are the ones organizing and directing his spiritual soldiers on planet earth.

Ordinary human army commanders are rated by the force they command, but you are saying Jesus the commander in Chief of all the armies of God has no physical soldiers that are well organized for recognition!

Of course you're worse than a Confused Dullard (Òpònú Olódo), if there could be anything worse than that, you're Sir.

A pig will always be a pig.
See him justifying unrighteousness!

Mat 5:22:
"But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

You should cover your head in shame. Justifying unrighteousness is a characteristic of the unregenerated!

shadeyinka:


A pig will always be a pig.
See him justifying unrighteousness!

Mat 5:22:
"But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

You should cover your head in shame. Justifying unrighteousness is a characteristic of the unregenerated!

My friend, Jesus was giving his obedient followers who are UNITED IN FAITH that rule, not some CONFUSED DULLARD who do not have any attachment to an organized group.

That's why you will never find JWs call one another "FOOL" unlike you and your cohorts that has used all sorts of degrading words for one another yet claiming brothers and sisters in Christ.

So you're not my brother Sir, that's why i can call you FOOL for insulting my commander in Chief!

TruthHurts100:


Hmmm poor understanding is harsh but let's see who has a very poor understanding here.

Explain this scripture Act 24:15

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Who are the Just and who are the Unjust?
Why will the unjust be resurrected?

Or will those wicked ones now, who are hearing the word of God everyday will be resurrected?

Remember, the wages that sin pays Death. So after paying for one's sin with death... God will resurrect an already judged and convicted person back to life to kill him again? So, God is that unjust abi?

Pls go back to study what judgement really is in the Bible. You can know how to quote Genesis to Revelation but insight is more important.

You proved my perceptions right.
The unjust will be resurrected inorder to face judgment and to receive their punishment called the second death.

Wages of sin is death, thats the death the unjust will face in the lake of fire.

The death which everyone dies now is not the second death which only the unjust will receive .
If so why are just and righteous men such as David,Abraham,Jacob,Moses dead?

shadeyinka:

Depending on the context, hell could mean grave or abode(holding place/prison) of unholy souls after death.


Ps16:10
"For You will not leave My soul in hell; You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption."

Mat 18:9:
"And if your eye offends you, pluck it out and throw [it] from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire."
Ps 9:17:
"The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the nations that forget God."


Lake of Fire is empty as of now for it will only be populated after the resurrection.
Rev 20:10:
"And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [were]. And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Rev 20:15:
"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."

In fact, Hell too will be cast into the lake of fire

Rev 20:13-14:
"And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death."

True, but it still does not prove your argument.

Maximus69:


Obviously you don't know the meaning of kingdom my friend.

It simply means GOVERNMENT, where the rulers have their governmental seat in the central or capital of the city/country, while other citizens living in harmony with the constitution of the government are in other places under the jurisdiction of the government.

So it's not two Kingdoms Sir, it's still the same kingdom having the governmental seat where the King lives!

But this is not what your said before.

shadeyinka:

Depending on the context, hell could mean grave or abode(holding place/prison) of unholy souls after death.


Ps16:10
"For You will not leave My soul in hell; You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption."

Mat 18:9:
"And if your eye offends you, pluck it out and throw [it] from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire."
Ps 9:17:
"The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the nations that forget God."


Lake of Fire is empty as of now for it will only be populated after the resurrection.
Rev 20:10:
"And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [were]. And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Rev 20:15:
"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."

In fact, Hell too will be cast into the lake of fire

Rev 20:13-14:
"And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death."

Our interest is the lake of fire or Gehenna translated as Hell fire.
They are one and the same thing.

blueAgent:


But this is not what your said before.

You're the one who got me wrong, God's Kingdom is the same.

Subjects live forever on planet Earth as God planned it in the beginning, NO access to Heaven because Heaven is not for fleshy creatures. Psalms 37:9-11, 29 Proverbs 2:20-22, Isaiah 65:21-25

Rulers chosen from amongst Christians are transformed and taken live forever in Heaven as spirit beings with the King (Jesus) who has also return to his spirit form after his earthly mission. John 14:1-4

Maximus69:


You're the one who got me wrong, God's Kingdom is the same.

Subjects live forever on planet Earth as God planned it in the beginning, NO access to Heaven because Heaven is not for fleshy creatures. Psalms 37:9-11, 29 Proverbs 2:20-22, Isaiah 65:21-25

Rulers chosen from amongst Christians are transformed and taken live forever in Heaven as spirit beings with the King (Jesus) who has also return to his spirit form after his earthly mission. John 14:1-4

All this is your reasoning not God's word.

Maximus69:


You're the one who got me wrong, God's Kingdom is the same.

Subjects live forever on planet Earth as God planned it in the beginning, NO access to Heaven because Heaven is not for fleshy creatures. Psalms 37:9-11, 29 Proverbs 2:20-22, Isaiah 65:21-25

Rulers chosen from amongst Christians are transformed and taken live forever in Heaven as spirit beings with the King (Jesus) who has also return to his spirit form after his earthly mission. John 14:1-4

Paul says we be caught up to meet Christ in the Air.

Where are the Saved taken to when Christ returns?

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

blueAgent:



Paul says we be caught up to meet Christ in the Air.

Where are the Saved taken to when Christ returns?

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Think of a senatorial candidate discussing with his fellow senatorial candidate from another part of Nigeria about where they'll be staying after they've won the senatorial seat!

Of course one will be telling the other,

we will all be taken to Abuja to commence our duties as senators of the Federal Republic of Nigeria

But that's not where the remaining millions of Nigerians will stay!

So Paul was directing this statement to his spirit anointed brothers (Born Again Christmas) chosen by God to rule with Jesus in heaven. Revelations 14:1
But the place where people will enjoy all the benefits of that heavenly government is here on Earth! Revelations 14:6

blueAgent:



Our interest is the lake of fire or Gehenna translated as Hell fire.
They are one and the same thing.

I only answered the question of whether Hell and Lake of Fire are the same!

blueAgent:



True, but it still does not prove your argument.

If the second death is annihilation and death is supposed to be a state of no consciousness, how then can God pay each one according to his "evil works".

Do you believe that Christians will be rewarded in paradise according to their works? If this is true, is the same expected for the unrighteous ones? Will the state of annihilation of Adolf Hitler be different from that of Gen Abacha? Will the state of annihilation of Satan differ from the state of a petty thief who died from an accident while fleeing capture?

Maximus69:


My friend, Jesus was giving his obedient followers who are UNITED IN FAITH that rule, not some CONFUSED DULLARD who do not have any attachment to an organized group.

That's why you will never find JWs call one another "FOOL" unlike you and your cohorts that has used all sorts of degrading words for one another yet claiming brothers and sisters in Christ.

So you're not my brother Sir, that's why i can call you FOOL for insulting my commander in Chief!

You are JW, I am ECWA, I don't even know the denomination of my "so called cohorts" for denominations DOES not matter. The centrality of Christ is.
Hear what Jesus Himself said:
Luk 9:49-50:
"And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in your name; and we forbade him, because he follows not with us. And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

Anyone who honours Christ and live by His rules is my Brother even if we differ in our comprehension of the scriptures.

But like I said, a "pig" will be a pig no matter what. A "pig" will justify iniquity by so many excuses like " he's not my brother"!

Maximus69:


First of all you are NOT my brother!

Secondly the quotation specifically say WITHOUT A CAUSE

You are insulting my commander in Chief by saying he has no VISIBLE army! Jesus is the commander in Chief of all the heavenly host, his heavenly angelic armies are the ones organizing and directing his spiritual soldiers on planet earth.

Ordinary human army commanders are rated by the force they command, but you are saying Jesus the commander in Chief of all the armies of God has no physical soldiers that are well organized for recognition!

Of course you're worse than a Confused Dullard (Òpònú Olódo), if there could be anything worse than that, you're Sir.

I am not surprised!

Matt 5:22:
"but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Angry@ without a cause
Thou Fool@ "no conditionality"

Do you want to know why!!??

The person you call FOOL is made in God's own very image.

A sinful nature will justify sin

shadeyinka:

You are JW, I am ECWA, I don't even know the denomination of my "so called cohorts" for denominations DOES not matter. The centrality of Christ is.
Hear what Jesus Himself said:
Luk 9:49-50:
"And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in your name; and we forbade him, because he follows not with us. And Jesus said to him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

Anyone who honours Christ and live by His rules is my Brother even if we differ in our comprehension of the scriptures.

But like I said, a "pig" will be a pig no matter what. A "pig" will justify iniquity by so many excuses like " he's not my brother"!

If you're not a jw i've told you as i've always told you that you're not my brother!

Brotherhood can be based on just tree things~

(1) If we're into the same business.

(2) If we're from the same blood.

(3) If we're of the same faith.

You and I aren't related in anyway, so Mr ECWA I am not your brother!

shadeyinka:

I am not surprised!

Matt 5:22:
"but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Angry@ without a cause
Thou Fool@ "no conditionality"

Do you want to know why!!??

The person you call FOOL is made in God's own very image.

A sinful nature will justify sin

You failed woefully again Sir!

Jesus called Jews born of the same tribe like himself as "FOOLS" Matthew 23:17

Just tell me that Jesus don't know that they were humans created in God's image!

Òpònú Olódo!

Maximus69:


You failed woefully again Sir!

Jesus called Jews born of the same tribe like himself as "FOOLS" Matthew 23:17

Just tell me that Jesus don't know that they were humans created in God's image!

Òpònú Olódo!

What have I to do with wolves in sheep skin.

Maximus69:


If you're not a jw i've told you as i've always told you that you're not my brother!

Brotherhood can be based on just tree things~

(1) If we're into the same business.

(2) If we're from the same blood.

(3) If we're of the same faith.

You and I aren't related in anyway, so Mr ECWA I am not your brother!

That's not my point. Jesus doesn't care on bit about any church denomination including JW and Olumba Olumba. Jesus cares about the individual souls!

blueAgent:



You proved my perceptions right.
The unjust will be resurrected inorder to face judgment and to receive their punishment called the second death.

Wages of sin is death, thats the death the unjust will face in the lake of fire.

The death which everyone dies now is not the second death which only the unjust will receive .
If so why are just and righteous men such as David,Abraham,Jacob,Moses dead?

You're more wrong.

Let me explain the first and second death to you.

The death now is as a result of the sin we inherit from Adam and Eve.

Now, there are people who never heard about the gospel till they died, these ones are the unjust that will be resurrected with the just.

Do you remember that Satan will be imprisoned for a thousand years.... During these period, the just who are resurrected will teach the unjust the way of the lord.

I'm sure you know that at the end of the one thousand reign... Satan will be let loose to test people for the last time. Anyone, be it the just or the resurrected unjust who falls for Satan this time around will be destroyed forever... No more hope for any resurrection. This is the second death. Revelation likened it to something destroyed in the lake of fire.
Read Revelation 20:13&14

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
See, if this fire is a literal fire, can death and hell fire be thrown into the same hell?

It's clear the second death is likened to something burnt in fire.

You should also check the root meaning of hell. It means to hide or cover... Other translations calls it grave.

We are yet to know those who made hell (grave) a place of torment.

If we are to follow Revelation 20:14 literally then we will say hell was thrown into hell, it doesn't make sense. Does it?

What do you think?

The main people who sinned in Eden. Did God sent them to hell? How come humans that inherited the sin are to be sent to hell? Is that the kind of unjust God you are serving?

Let's even say we committed the original sin and we live for 70 or 80 years... Will God now punish us forever for a sin of 80years? God does not punish more than the sin committed. Death is the wages of sin. The same applied to Adam and Eve.

shadeyinka:

What have I to do with wolves in sheep skin.

Wolves that are so humble to the point of subjecting themselves to orderliness globally! Matthew 7:16

I wonder what qualities your so called sheep will have to be more qualified as sheep that these "wolves"! Matthew 5:14-16

shadeyinka:

That's not my point. Jesus doesn't care on bit about any church denomination including JW and Olumba Olumba. Jesus cares about the individual souls!

Of course that's what he cares about, but the individual soul must become SUBMISSIVE to his appointed servants {Act 2:42} and also imitate their faith! Hebrew 13:7

You are not ready to be submissive to his chosen ones and you're not ready to imitate anybody's faith, so you are alone as in ON YOUR OWN SIR, Oyo lo wa! Luke 11:23

TruthHurts100:


You're more wrong.

Let me explain the first and second death to you.

The death now is as a result of the sin we inherit from Adam and Eve.

Now, there are people who never heard about the gospel till they died, these ones are the unjust that will be resurrected with the just.

Do you remember that Satan will be imprisoned for a thousand years.... During these period, the just who are resurrected will teach the unjust the way of the lord.

I'm sure you know that at the end of the one thousand reign... Satan will be let loose to test people for the last time. Anyone, be it the just or the resurrected unjust who falls for Satan this time around will be destroyed forever... No more hope for any resurrection. This is the second death. Revelation likened it to something destroyed in the lake of fire.
Read Revelation 20:13&14

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
See, if this fire is a literal fire, can death and hell fire be thrown into the same hell?

It's clear the second death is likened to something burnt in fire.

You should also check the root meaning of hell. It means to hide or cover... Other translations calls it grave.

We are yet to know those who made hell (grave) a place of torment.

If we are to follow Revelation 20:14 literally then we will say hell was thrown into hell, it doesn't make sense. Does it?

What do you think?

The main people who sinned in Eden. Did God sent them to hell? How come humans that inherited the sin are to be sent to hell? Is that the kind of unjust God you are serving?

Let's even say we committed the original sin and we live for 70 or 80 years... Will God now punish us forever for a sin of 80years? God does not punish more than the sin committed. Death is the wages of sin. The same applied to Adam and Eve.

Excellent!

Maximus69:


Of course that's what he cares about, but the individual soul must become SUBMISSIVE to his appointed servants {Act 2:42} and also imitate their faith! Hebrew 13:7

You are not ready to be submissive to his chosen ones and you're not ready to imitate anybody's faith, so you are alone as in ON YOUR OWN SIR, Oyo lo wa! Luke 11:23

See double standard.

You say Jesus only empowered his apostles to cast out demons. Okay!
If your governing board should be obeyed like the apostles, where is the proof of their empowerment?

Acts 2:42:
"And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Submissive to the Lord Jesus rather to men and doctrines of men.

Maximus69:


Wolves that are so humble to the point of subjecting themselves to orderliness globally! Matthew 7:16

I wonder what qualities your so called sheep will have to be more qualified as sheep that these "wolves"! Matthew 5:14-16

I'm glad at least you acknowledge that you are a humble wolf.

shadeyinka:

See double standard.

You say Jesus only empowered his apostles to cast out demons. Okay!
If your governing board should be obeyed like the apostles, where is the proof of their empowerment?

Acts 2:42:
"And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Submissive to the Lord Jesus rather to men and doctrines of men.

There are signs to identify the chosen in each generation.
Abel's own was the acceptance of his sacrifice.

Noah's own was that all animals were going to meet him in the ark.

Moses asked for signs to help the people believe him and he did so many.

Elijah called down fire on sacrifice.

John only baptised people.

Jesus performed the greatest of all signs.

The Apostles performed to help the Israelites identify them back then.

All the signs aren't the same!

What is the sign Jesus himself foretold will serve as identifying mark of his end time group?

He said "when all the earth is in chaos as to find LOVE and UNITY in any society, his own followers will be identified by the LOVE and UNITY permeating their midst! John 13:34-35, 17:20-23

So real Bible students don't expect the same SIGNS all the time, we search the scriptures to know the IDENTIFYING MARK given for our own generation.
That's why Jesus said "a crooked and twisted generation is demanding for a sign (of course people with crooked minds will always demand for the same kind of signs from God's servants) but none of what they're expecting will be given them" Matthew 12:29

Jesus performed so many signs yet he said this same thing about his own generation. Luke 11:29
For your information my friend there will always be identifying mark of pure worship but it will never be what unbelievers like you are demanding, that's what Jesus meant!