Hahjascho:
[s]Lol.....I guess you've been misinformed.
Anyway, no man has power to change anyone except God, through deep, self revelation.... reasons why most who are lucky to experience near-death experience eventually acknowledge God's existence..... For as long you maintain your stand and justification while not ready to submit your old convictions, I guess it won't ever make any meaning to you...

But you know what, it's the real universal truth of which even many chronic un -believers chose to believe eventually.[/s]

butterfly777:
Does God exist?

I used to believe that God does not exist, until one day. That day, I read an article which opened my eyes.

That article was about the design in nature. It explains that behind the simless ways our body functions and the organs interact with each other, there is an entity that programmed the operation.

Let's look at the digestive system alone. When. You want to eat, the mouth is designed to salivate. Something triggers the body to secret the hormones or enzymes necessary for digestion. Then you start putting the food in your mouth. The mouth is designed by that person to function like a grinding machine, with different types if teeth and your saliva functioning as liquid to mix the food.

Right there in the mouth, some enzymes will also be secreted to aid the breaking down of the food in your body. From the mouth, the entity that designed it has made a conduit - the lungs- to carry the food from the mouth to the intestines. Some food will go through the small intestine, some, will go to the large intestine. Yet, the food does not miss road. The engineering made by someone in our body to takes care of that.

Lest I forget, remember that there are two passages from the mouth area to the internal organs, yet the food knows which passage is its own. It doesn't take the passage meant for oxygen.

The food goes down through our intestines, and the maker has kept some enzymes inside there to further digest that food. After doing that, the engineer who made the body has made some sieves or organs like foam in the body to absorb the nutrients the body will use, and sieve away unwanted food substances.

The way the body absorbs and converts nutrients from food into useful forms is another highly technical process, that cannot happen by accident. Someone or something arranged it to function seamlessly.

Then, the body transports the rejected food waste through some organs ( I'm not a scientist, so don't mind my layman explanation) that will lead it to the anus.

At this stage, the person's brain is made by the maker to make the person feel he wants to pass out the food waste - faeces. The person looks for a nearby restroom and pours out the food materials rejected by the body.

Hence, the body has successfully taken from food, the energy it needs to stay alive, and has removed the rest from the body, so that it doesn't cause problem inside the body.

This is just one of the many highly complex arrangements somebody put in our body for it to work well. You may choose to call that somebody creator, or any name you like. But it is clear that someone somewhere made this human body and arranged how it will work.

kingxsamz:
Only bigger FOOl will accept that nothing can exist without a creator but turn around to say that the creator cannot be created.
If you believe the world was created by a God and you choose to believe that that god was never created, then you're a compound fool.

Reality11:


So the universe is so complex it needs a creator. God is more complex than the universe but it doesn't need a creator?

So God just appeared from nowhere and started creating things?

Christians and logic

gensteejay:
Lols. The same scam. These Christian folks and deceit

masterP042:
Something as complex as the universe couldn't exist from nothing, but something more complex than the universe, something that created the complex universe came from nothing, abi? Christians check the logic.
If you guys can't answer who created God, you shouldn't ask about the origin of things.

onlyfacts:


Going by your theory your belief in evolution will not hold. Scientists believe the universe came about by the BIG BANG THEORY.

When asked how those energy that created the universe where formed before the Big Bang, science doesn't have any conclusive answers. It simply believes those elements SOMEHOW where there leading to the Big Bang. PS: both Big Bang and evolution are both called THEORIES and not FACTS because it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Still an element of FAITH is required to believe it happened that way!

Now to God existence without creation. I once had a discussion with a friend who wanted to know God's origin. He owns a pet dog. I asked him if his dog was intelligent, he said yes! I asked him if his dog could obey simple and some complex commands, he said yes! I asked him, if his son and his dog were trained from infancy in the same things, like they were both going to school who would come out tops? Who would graduate to become a lawyer, doctor, engineer etc? He said his son! I asked him why, he said because his son has higher reasoning capacity than a dog! And he was right!

Truth is no matter how smart an animal is, explaining complex things that humans can easily understand will be difficult for an animal to grasp. An animal can never grasp how to build an airplane or a computer program no matter how intelligent it is or how hard you try to explain it. Of cause they are intelligent in their own way but all animals have a limit to their intelligence even man!
To God we are like that dog or any other animal. Even if he tried to explain his origin we will never fully understand it, because human knowledge is limited by what he or she can experience( it is limited to the physical universe of which we still don't fully understand).

God is a higher being that transcends both the physical and spiritual universe, God doesn't need to explain in details His origin, instead He says in the Bible "He has no beginning and ending".

gensteejay:

You're only arguing with assumptions in your head as I never told you I'm an atheist or someone that considers science as the ultimate or infallible.

onlyfacts:


God is a higher being that transcends both the physical and spiritual universe, God doesn't need to explain in details His origin, instead He says in the Bible "He has no beginning and ending".

kingxsamz:


You came here, using logic to butress your point and at the end, you failed to do justice to that same logic.
If you claim that a complex being (which no one can prove exists) created the universe, then you must apply that same logic that this complex being was also created.
It's one thing to believe that there's a higher intelligence. It's also another thing to know what this higher being wants...
It'd be foolish to just believe that there's a God who wants to punish people for everlasting if they don't fulfill his will. How did you know? Because a 2000 year old book said so?
Same way you can have faith that there's a God, is the same way one can have faith that Zeus created the universe...

If you agree that there's a higher intelligence that created us, then you must also agree that that same higher intelligence was also created by another higher being. If not, there's no need continuing this conversation.
Till you have proof, the belief in God remains dumb.

onlyfacts:


Sorry about that, I tailored my response to one person but decided to copy all of you.

I'm curious though if you aren't an atheist, what's your belief?

onlyfacts:


You didn't argue like a scientist. I gave you series of proof in my previous right up. Evolution and big bang isn't conclusive yet you believe it!

You haven't bothered proving that beyond all reasonable doubt yet you are quick to insist on God must be created.

gensteejay:
.

And there's no evidence or tangible reason to believe God Almighty doesn't exist.

Reality11:


So the universe is so complex it needs a creator. God is more complex than the universe but it doesn't need a creator?

So God just appeared from nowhere and started creating things?

Christians and logic

kingxsamz:


Wrong...
You can't expect evidence or proof for the non-existence of something if it hasn't been proven in the first place.
You cannot disprove what hasn't been proved.

gensteejay:

I'm just a human. I strive to do less of beliefs but more of seeking knowledge, so I have no fixed philosophy and beliefs.

Knowledge requires evidence while beliefs only requires faith.

I know there's God Almighty, and I feel all the higher beings worshipped in religions as gods and goddesses, including Olohun, Allah, Jehovah, Yeshua, etc. are elements or divine aspects of God Almighty that's not meant to be worshipped.

As far as I'm concerned (based on the traits of these gods in their holy books), no evidence shows that any of Jehovah, Olohun, Allah, or Jesus, is God Almighty. Also, no evidence that shows the gods and goddesses of religions didn't exist on Earth in history.

And there's no evidence or tangible reason to believe God Almighty doesn't exist.

onlyfacts:


Interesting view, first time I'm actually hearing of it. Good news is you believe in God almighty, even if you don't believe in the versions people claim today are God almighty.

But then I want to point out something. In most decent religion, God is usually a MORAL GUIDE, A STANDARD FOR UPRIGHTNESS, AN UP HOLDER OF JUSTICE and what ever GOOD VIRTUE you can think of.

Different religious group claim theirs is the most upright, if not the best. Charity is said begins at home. A good test to know the almighty would be to examine it's religious members to see how many of them allow the "charity" their religion teaches to begin with them. That is but a start. Who says you can't put various religions to this test and many more... I'm willing to help though with more test

gensteejay:

Atheism has little answers to life's big questions, so a wise doesn't pitch their tent with such a narrow philosophy?

As an atheist, how do you think the Universe came about? Do you've another answer other than the Big Bang theory or evolution?

Let me know your thoughts on those questions.

kingxsamz:


please mention where I said I'm a scientist, and I believe in evolution and the big bang theory. I'm waiting.


I'm not insisting that he must be created.
I'm telling you that he doesn't exist. And if you want to use the "something cannot come from nothing" logic, then you must also apply that logic to your God's existence.
Abeg it's too early to be delusional.

kingxsamz:

First of all, I'm not an atheist.
And also, not all atheists believe in the big bang theory.
Atheism doesn't have answers to all questions, neither does any religion.
Atheism is just a lack of belief of any god, due to lack of evidence from those who make such claims.
Truth is, no one really knows.
Not scientists, not atheists, not Christians or Muslims. And no one can ever know.
Anyone who claims he knows how the universe was created, who or what created the universe, is delusional.

onlyfacts:


So what do you believe, if you are not for God then automatically you are against him-atheism is against him. But please tell me your belief? I don't want to be judgemental.

[s] My logic in explaining God's existence in case you havent noticed has nothing to do with "something cannot come from nothing" but rather "God is a higher being and as lower beings even if God explains his origin we will still not understand". [/s]

gensteejay:

Ok.

Modified: I see the Big Bang theory as an important scientific discovery, just like evolution is.

But there are still many things in the universe that remain undiscovered and unknown. So, I follow the scientific progress on the limitations of the Big Bang model and other related ones like the Standard Model that seek to explain the origin of the universe.

I feel science is the best way to understand life's countless mysteries and God Almighty (I see this as a distinct concept than what we've in religions).

gensteejay:

Is God the same entity as Olohun and the same as Allah, and the same as Jehovah? Maybe we can start from there?

kingxsamz:


There's no logic in that.
How do you know God is a higher being?
What if what created the universe was something which doesn't possess human attributes? What if what caused the existence of the universe was long dead?
How did you arrive to the conclusion that this god has some paradise in the sky that awaits you?
Because the bible said so?

kingxsamz:


Thing is... At least science makes effort everyday in trying to find more answers prior to our existence, that's why the big bang remains a theory. But religion just sits back comfortably and concludes there's a God, and that God sent his son to die. And whoever refuses to believe would be put in everlasting fire. How did they arrive to such conclusion?

onlyfacts:


Going by your theory your belief in evolution will not hold. Scientists believe the universe came about by the BIG BANG THEORY.

When asked how those energy that created the universe where formed before the Big Bang, science doesn't have any conclusive answers. It simply believes those elements SOMEHOW where there leading to the Big Bang. PS: both Big Bang and evolution are both called THEORIES and not FACTS because it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Still an element of FAITH is required to believe it happened that way!

Now to God existence without creation. I once had a discussion with a friend who wanted to know God's origin. He owns a pet dog. I asked him if his dog was intelligent, he said yes! I asked him if his dog could obey simple and some complex commands, he said yes! I asked him, if his son and his dog were trained from infancy in the same things, like they were both going to school who would come out tops? Who would graduate to become a lawyer, doctor, engineer etc? He said his son! I asked him why, he said because his son has higher reasoning capacity than a dog! And he was right!

Truth is no matter how smart an animal is, explaining complex things that humans can easily understand will be difficult for an animal to grasp. An animal can never grasp how to build an airplane or a computer program no matter how intelligent it is or how hard you try to explain it. Of cause they are intelligent in their own way but all animals have a limit to their intelligence even man!
To God we are like that dog or any other animal. Even if he tried to explain his origin we will never fully understand it, because human knowledge is limited by what he or she can experience( it is limited to the physical universe of which we still don't fully understand).

God is a higher being that transcends both the physical and spiritual universe, God doesn't need to explain in details His origin, instead He says in the Bible "He has no beginning and ending".

gensteejay:
Great thread. The simple truth is life is far, far deeper than atheism paints it. Atheism has little or no answers to the big questions of life and existence, and no single religion does as well.

So, it's better one reads wide and keeps an open mind.