LordReed:


I don;t argue for argument sake which is why terms need to be clear. When I asked him for a source for PHILOSOPHY OF ATHEISM it was a sign to show I need clarification. I don't ask questions of what I know.

Well I believe its sorted out now. I learnt from the argument too

onlyfacts:


Going by your theory your belief in evolution will not hold. Scientists believe the universe came about by the BIG BANG THEORY.

When asked how those energy that created the universe where formed before the Big Bang, science doesn't have any conclusive answers. It simply believes those elements SOMEHOW where there leading to the Big Bang. PS: both Big Bang and evolution are both called THEORIES and not FACTS because it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Still an element of FAITH is required to believe it happened that way!

Now to God existence without creation. I once had a discussion with a friend who wanted to know God's origin. He owns a pet dog. I asked him if his dog was intelligent, he said yes! I asked him if his dog could obey simple and some complex commands, he said yes! I asked him, if his son and his dog were trained from infancy in the same things, like they were both going to school who would come out tops? Who would graduate to become a lawyer, doctor, engineer etc? He said his son! I asked him why, he said because his son has higher reasoning capacity than a dog! And he was right!

Truth is no matter how smart an animal is, explaining complex things that humans can easily understand will be difficult for an animal to grasp. An animal can never grasp how to build an airplane or a computer program no matter how intelligent it is or how hard you try to explain it. Of cause they are intelligent in their own way but all animals have a limit to their intelligence even man!
To God we are like that dog or any other animal. Even if he tried to explain his origin we will never fully understand it, because human knowledge is limited by what he or she can experience( it is limited to the physical universe of which we still don't fully understand).

God is a higher being that transcends both the physical and spiritual universe, God doesn't need to explain in details His origin, instead He says in the Bible "He has no beginning and ending".

”Scientific” theories unlike any other theories are explanation of facts.

Atomic, cell and evolution theories are facts

ThinkFreely:
”Scientific” theories unlike any other theories are explanation of facts.

Atomic, cell and evolution theories are facts

Science is presented as trafficking in absolute truths. On the contrary, science is a framework for interpreting, systematizing, and predicting nature based on empirical observations that is "facts". That is to say, a well accepted ‘theory’ (framework for understanding/predicting nature) can always be upended with sufficiently compelling contrary evidence.

Perhaps the best known example of a debunked ‘theory’ among physics students is the aether, once thought to be the medium which light propagated through. This theory seemed logical in the late 1800s with the newly developed understanding that light was an electromagnetic wave and the prior knowledge that all other waves propagate through a medium. The aether was famously disproved by the Michelson–Morley experiment.

Another example that is a bit more obscure is in crystallography, where it was once thought that crystalline solids could only be composed of repeating blocks (unit cells) that could be used to tile all of space. This was upended with the discovery of Quasicrystals (1982; Nobel prize in chemistry 2011) by Dan Shechtman, a finding that had a very loud and famous detractor in Linus Pauling.

You’ve heard of our greatest scientific theories: the theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, you’ve also heard of the concept of a proof, and the claims that certain pieces of evidence prove the validities of these theories. Fossils, genetic inheritance, and DNA prove the theory of evolution.

Except that’s a complete lie. While they provide some evidence for those theories, they aren’t proof. In fact, when it comes to those theories scientists can't seem to agree on a single path. Scientist don't agree on how the matter that formed and exploded in the big bang came about (that's even the easy part, up till now they haven't been able to prove through any mathematical model that explosion would cause "creation of life from nothing" and not "destruction" ), neither can evolutionist agree about how life first came on earth, how it survived the harsh environment of primitive earth and how it evolved into complex life forms (evolutionary theory is more of stories about how life came to be than any hard mathematical or fossil facts- always missing links in the chain of evolution).

onlyfacts:


Going by your theory your belief in evolution will not hold. Scientists believe the universe came about by the BIG BANG THEORY.

When asked how those energy that created the universe where formed before the Big Bang, science doesn't have any conclusive answers. It simply believes those elements SOMEHOW where there leading to the Big Bang. PS: both Big Bang and evolution are both called THEORIES and not FACTS because it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Still an element of FAITH is required to believe it happened that way!

Am not an evolutionist or a scientist. Am an atheist.

Now to God existence without creation. I once had a discussion with a friend who wanted to know God's origin. He owns a pet dog. I asked him if his dog was intelligent, he said yes! I asked him if his dog could obey simple and some complex commands, he said yes! I asked him, if his son and his dog were trained from infancy in the same things, like they were both going to school who would come out tops? Who would graduate to become a lawyer, doctor, engineer etc? He said his son! I asked him why, he said because his son has higher reasoning capacity than a dog! And he was right!

Truth is no matter how smart an animal is, explaining complex things that humans can easily understand will be difficult for an animal to grasp. An animal can never grasp how to build an airplane or a computer program no matter how intelligent it is or how hard you try to explain it. Of cause they are intelligent in their own way but all animals have a limit to their intelligence even man!
To God we are like that dog or any other animal. Even if he tried to explain his origin we will never fully understand it, because human knowledge is limited by what he or she can experience( it is limited to the physical universe of which we still don't fully understand).

God is a higher being that transcends both the physical and spiritual universe, God doesn't need to explain in details His origin, instead He says in the Bible "He has no beginning and ending".

So God has an origin?
He or she or it told you?
Ok where is it? From nowhere abi?

And an all powerful God can't explain it the way humans would grasp Lol

What if I told you that scientist won't tell you how the universe originated because you won't understand it. Do you think it's an answer?

gensteejay:
Great thread. The simple truth is life is far, far deeper than atheism paints it. Atheism has little or no answers to the big questions of life and existence, and no single religion does as well.

So, it's better one reads wide and keeps an open mind.

Theist try to give answers to the bolded.

Science also try to give answers to the bolded.

Atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Please where and when did atheism tried to give any answer?

onlyfacts:


neither can evolutionist agree about how life first came on earth, how it survived the harsh environment of primitive earth and how it evolved into complex life forms (evolutionary theory is more of stories about how life came to be than any hard mathematical or fossil facts- always missing links in the chain of evolution).

You could be on a long thing if you think an established model like the Big Bang will be dumped.

It's a cosmological model that explains the origin and evolution of the observable universe.

What will most likely happen is, some aspects could be disproved and the core aspects will be upheld when more breakthroughs are made and the model will then be modified.

Either way, science advances. And the advancement of science means today's religions are getting close to their death since a number of their superstitious claims, upon which the religions are built, will be laid bare by science as bogus.

The more science and technology advances, the more people, especially science-savvy individuals and smart youth, realize they need no god or deity to lead a good life.

Reality11:


Am not an evolutionist or a scientist. Am an atheist.



So God has an origin?
He or she or it told you?
Ok where is it? From nowhere abi?

And an all powerful God can't explain it the way humans would grasp Lol

What if I told you that scientist won't tell you how the universe originated because you won't understand it. Do you think it's an answer?

In case you missed the obvious answer at the end, let me recap: He has no beginning and ending.

Like animals too our brains have it's limitations, God has none of such limitations being the creator.

gensteejay:

You could be on a long thing if you think an established model like the Big Bang will be dumped.

It's a cosmological model that explains the origin and evolution of the observable universe.

What will most likely happen is, some aspects could be disproved and the core aspects will be upheld when more breakthroughs are made and the model will then be modified.

Either way, science advances. And the advancement of science means today's religions are getting close to their death since a number of their superstitious claims, upon which the religions are built, will be laid bare by science as bogus.

The more science and technology advances, the more people, especially science-savvy individuals and smart youth, realize they need no god or deity to lead a good life.

Do I sound scientific enough to you?

Well I should cause I love experiment and research but while I do love all these things I'm not blinded by the limitations of my tools and theories I base my research on.

We are still taking about God. Science doesn't go against God and vice versa. And I can prove it.

Reality11:


Theist try to give answers to the bolded.

Science also try to give answers to the bolded.

Atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Please where and when did atheism tried to give any answer?

Of what use is atheism if it has no answers to life's big questions? As an irreligious person, I don't mind embracing atheism if it sufficiently answers most of those questions.

But atheism has little or no answers to give.

By following scientific research and researching these concepts in different religions (especially older religions as all these Abrahamic religions are shallow and stole most of their concepts from older paganistic religions) and philosophies, one can find some good explanations on some of these essential issues (mysteries) about life.

As a person, I've no fixed philosophy and I always keep an open mind.

I only seek the benefits and what I can learn backed with evidence in science, religions, atheism, and other philosophies, and I will discard the rest, and where atheism is beneficial to me is how it helps in evaluating claims logically.

But at some point, logic isn't enough as I don't think trying to understand life or the universe is an intellectual exercise.

onlyfacts:


In case you missed the obvious answer at the end, let me recap: He has no beginning and ending.

Any proof?

What if I say
The universe has no beginning or end. It needs no creator. Hope we are okay?

Like animals too our brains have it's limitations, God has none of such limitations being the creator.

So an all powerful God can't explain his origin to humans at a level they can understand? Lol

Reality11:


Any proof?

What if I say
The universe has no beginning or end. It needs no creator. Hope we are okay?




So an all powerful God can't explain his origin to humans at a level they can understand? Lol

I gave you simple logic. I have more. Read my write up on this link. https://www.nairaland.com/5802230/designs-nature-handiwork-chance-god




How do you break down computer programming or complex maths problem to a 2 year old child as an adult? We are children in God's sight and something's we can't understand like that child.

gensteejay:

Of what use is atheism if it has no answers to life's big questions? As an irreligious person, I don't mind embracing atheism if it sufficiently answers most of those questions.

But atheism has little or no answers to give.

By following scientific research and researching these concepts in different religions (especially older religions as all these Abrahamic religions are shallow and stole most of their concepts from older paganistic religions) and philosophies, one can find some good explanations on some of these essential issues (mysteries) about life.

As a person, I've no fixed philosophy and I always keep an open mind.

I only seek the benefits and what I can learn backed with evidence in science, religions, atheism, and other philosophies, and I will discard the rest, and where atheism is beneficial to me is how it helps in evaluating claims logically.

But at some point, logic isn't enough as I don't think trying to understand life or the universe is an intellectual exercise.

Atheism is simply disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Please stop embarrassing yourself

onlyfacts:


Science is presented as trafficking in absolute truths. On the contrary, science is a framework for interpreting, systematizing, and predicting nature based on empirical observations that is "facts". That is to say, a well accepted ‘theory’ (framework for understanding/predicting nature) can always be upended with sufficiently compelling contrary evidence.

Perhaps the best known example of a debunked ‘theory’ among physics students is the aether, once thought to be the medium which light propagated through. This theory seemed logical in the late 1800s with the newly developed understanding that light was an electromagnetic wave and the prior knowledge that all other waves propagate through a medium. The aether was famously disproved by the Michelson–Morley experiment.

Another example that is a bit more obscure is in crystallography, where it was once thought that crystalline solids could only be composed of repeating blocks (unit cells) that could be used to tile all of space. This was upended with the discovery of Quasicrystals (1982; Nobel prize in chemistry 2011) by Dan Shechtman, a finding that had a very loud and famous detractor in Linus Pauling.

You’ve heard of our greatest scientific theories: the theory of evolution, the Big Bang theory, you’ve also heard of the concept of a proof, and the claims that certain pieces of evidence prove the validities of these theories. Fossils, genetic inheritance, and DNA prove the theory of evolution.

Except that’s a complete lie. While they provide some evidence for those theories, they aren’t proof. In fact, when it comes to those theories scientists can't seem to agree on a single path. Scientist don't agree on how the matter that formed and exploded in the big bang came about (that's even the easy part, up till now they haven't been able to prove through any mathematical model that explosion would cause "creation of life from nothing" and not "destruction" ), neither can evolutionist agree about how life first came on earth, how it survived the harsh environment of primitive earth and how it evolved into complex life forms (evolutionary theory is more of stories about how life came to be than any hard mathematical or fossil facts- always missing links in the chain of evolution).

Evolution is fact, there’s no medicine or biology without evolution. It won’t work, the evidences and applications are overwhelming.

No proof for any god

onlyfacts:


I gave you simple logic. I have more. Read my write up on this link. https://www.nairaland.com/5802230/designs-nature-handiwork-chance-god




How do you break down computer programming or complex maths problem to a 2 year old child as an adult? We are children in God's sight and something's we can't understand like that child.

If am all powerful and I can do all things, this won't be a problem. I should be able to explain it even to a fetus

Reality11:



Atheism is simply disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Please stop embarrassing yourself

Shallow still. Merely justifying what I stated earlier that the atheistic philosophy (highlighted) lacks any depth.

It's easy to prove all religions are scam at least the Bible and Qur'an make that easy with their errors and inconsistencies. What's next after that?

If all religions are scams, that doesn't mean this Universe has no source or beginning, and thinking it doesn't is not reasonable.

And if religions are a tool for mind control, that doesn't mean there are not many mysterious happenings in life which some call supernatural or spiritual.

Life is much more complex than atheists paints it or the simplistic way it's portrayed in holy books.

Reality11:


If am all powerful and I can do all things, this won't be a problem. I should be able to explain it even to a fetus

Then you don't understand the position of God. You want him to be at the same level as you.

gensteejay:

Of what use is atheism if it has no answers to life's big questions? As an irreligious person, I don't mind embracing atheism if it sufficiently answers most of those questions.

But atheism has little or no answers to give.

By following scientific research and researching these concepts in different religions (especially older religions as all these Abrahamic religions are shallow and stole most of their concepts from older paganistic religions) and philosophies, one can find some good explanations on some of these essential issues (mysteries) about life.

As a person, I've no fixed philosophy and I always keep an open mind.

I only seek the benefits and what I can learn backed with evidence in science, religions, atheism, and other philosophies, and I will discard the rest, and where atheism is beneficial to me is how it helps in evaluating claims logically.

But at some point, logic isn't enough as I don't think trying to understand life or the universe is an intellectual exercise.

And you claimed to know about atheism? What you have is a strawman version of atheism that when you attack it it makes you feel good. You should learn what atheism is and drop the strawman.

onlyfacts:


Then you don't understand the position of God. You want him to be at the same level as you.

If god is all powerful he should be able to explain it without making us be at his level na and in such a way we would understand.

LordReed:


And you claimed to know about atheism? What you have is a strawman version of atheism that when you attack it it makes you feel good. You should learn what atheism is and drop the strawman.

Still saying nothing tangible. Atheism as a concept in philosophy is all over the web, Mr strawman.

Reality11:


If god is all powerful he should be able to explain it without making us be at his level na and in such a way we would understand.

You run a parent-children relationship with God. You don't order your parent as a child to go against their sound judgement. Such peer pressure works amongst similar age groups. All man needs to know about him he has revealed.

onlyfacts:


You run a parent-children relationship with God. You don't order your parent as a child to go against their sound judgement. Such peer pressure works amongst similar age groups. All man needs to know about him he has revealed.

Not all, remaining his/her/it origin.

But you said god won't do it because as humans we can't comprehend it even if he tells us because it is too complex for our understanding.

An all powerful God should be able to do it to the extent we can even understand.

gensteejay:

Still saying nothing tangible. Atheism as a concept in philosophy is all over the web, Mr strawman.

Drop your strawman atheism, you are only using it to massage your ego.

Reality11:


Not all, remaining his/her/it origin.

But you said god won't do it because as humans we can't comprehend it even if he tells us because it is too complex for our understanding.

An all powerful God should be able to do it to the extent we can even understand.

You know God has the ability to foretell the future? He knows a futile venture when he sees one cause guess what?... He made our brains limited like animals in understanding. There should be a distinction between God and man.

onlyfacts:


You know God has the ability to foretell the future? He knows a futile venture when he sees one cause guess what?... He made our brains limited like animals in understanding. There should be a distinction between God and man.

But you didn't answer my question

LordReed:


Drop your strawman atheism, you are only using it to massage your ego.

What's strawman atheism?

I have never been an atheist at any point in my life as it doesn't look reasonable to me how a person can see myriads of complexities of life and the universe and feels all these have no source or origin.

Reality11:


But you didn't answer my question

I have done that.

ThinkFreely:
Evolution is fact, there’s no medicine or biology without evolution. It won’t work, the evidences and applications are overwhelming.

No proof for any god

You just spoke like you are still learning in school. It is not a fact, and I have opened your eyes to it. Facts that cant be proven, is that facts

ThinkFreely:
Evolution is fact, there’s no medicine or biology without evolution. It won’t work, the evidences and applications are overwhelming.

No proof for any god

You just spoke like you are still learning in school. It is not a fact, and I have opened your eyes to it. Facts that cant be proven, is that facts

gensteejay:

What's strawman atheism?

I have never been an atheist at any point in my life as it doesn't look reasonable to me how a person can see myriads of complexities of life and the universe and feels all these have no source or origin.

I mean the strawman you have of atheism.

That you have never been one does not mean you can't understand what it is and what it is not.

LordReed:


I mean the strawman you have of atheism.

That you have never been one does not mean you can't understand what it is and what it is not.

Your opinion. Ok

.