Nauttyprof:


I don't avoid Bible talk. I delight in revealing God's own truth alone. I know what I talk about it is you just defending what you have not taken time to ask questions on.

Study your Bible and not just what you were told. Be like the Berean Christians. Bible recognised them because it had a lesson for us. Ask the Holy spirit to guide you as this is very important to interpret right. He can speak directly to you.

NO CHURCH WILL TAKE YOU TO HEAVEN INCLUDING IJO MIMO.

Live and let live...that is the way of peace.

I have watched like two videos where Oschoffa himself said the exact same thing...all denominations belong to God and na your actions go judge you last last.

noble2faith:
Nauttyprof and others .. It is of no use arguing with those guys. From their comments, I could deduce that they are not ready to accept the biblical truth. They are the type that are being spoon-fed with heresies, without verifying from the Bible. They accept everything their shepherds/pastors give to them hook, line and sinker.

I was born into Celestial Church. Out of my siblings, I was the first person that left the church. My being so close to the Bible enlightened me. I left the church during my teenage years. I observed that most of their doctrines might be biblical but they are unchristian. Calling the name of Angel Michael when praying is absolutely unbiblical. Angel Michael is never part of the Trinity.

My elder bro had left too. He witnessed something shocking when he was attending a Celestial Church in his locality. He shared the experience with me and I wasn't surprised when I heard it. I will not share it here. Mind you this my bro was a very dogged person in Celestial but he eventually left the church.

As for my other siblings that are still attending the church, one thing I observe about them, even in Celestial Church members, they don't have good knowledge about the Bible. Hardly you see them studying the Bible. This is the reason they don't know that most of their practices/doctrines are unchristian.

You are right. They are just being defensive of what they should search further for in the Bible.

They believe so much in the laid down practices believing Oshoffa was right in everything without knowing that knowledge is progressive and never stagnant. They are the type who keep defending everything without taking time to even study their Bibles.

I weep when their prophets give messages and they don't even have understanding of the Bible. It's really sad. Many celebrate the gift than the Giver.

They just pick from the Bible without reading in its completeness to understand what the Bible truly says.

May God help the body of Christ

otipoju:


You make me laugh. You are saying that some parts of the bible should not be taken for what it is while some should be taken in a different manner.

Okay going by your logic:

Can you show me anywhere in the bible where God told the founder of Redeemed Christan Church of God to name his church by that name?....that name was found in Revelation right.

Or where God told Pastor Kumyyi in the bible to name his church Deeper life.

Or show me in the bible where you are told to use microphones to worship God...in bringing up these because it would sound foolish to you because that is exactly what how your assertions sound to me.

I am mirroring your logic.

Did you see me talk about name? Please, don't divert and stay on the topic of discussion.

If I may comment on names, I believe many names appeared based on the encounter they had with God. Remember, I used the word 'many' which does not mean 'all'.

On how to read the Bible, read the old and confirm it in the new. The new will either explain, emphasise or exchange. Explain further on the old, emphasise by a way of upholding the old or exchange by a way of replacement.

I hope you understand this.

otipoju:


Lol. Me I have not attended church for two years for valid personal reasons. I explained my reasons to God and look forward to the day I can go to another parish again.

My Dad stopped going to church for like ten years because of church politics, it did not stop him from having his altar at home and praying to God. Nobody disturbed him.

Cele no be cult ooo abeg. If you no come nobody send you message.

Where did I mention it being cult? Stop shooting yourself in the leg.

Kallmerb:
I don't know where you worshipped maybe it's the parish but I can clearly tell you most of what you wrote are totally False ...also claiming you understand the Bible and still wrote this is really disappointing ..I don't know the lies you are feed but if truly you want to learn the Bible locate a good Celestial church....or else pray at home for urself and tell God to open ur inner eyes and mind to understand his Word.


Truth is there are Good and bad in all churches,sects and denomination...some people have had bad and awful experience in some bad parishes doesn't mean all celestial church are bad ....

Imagine You were Born in Celestial church and doesn't even understand why Angel Micheal is included in our prayer structure .. are you sure you even read your Bible to Daniel 10

What has your family been doing in Celestial church if you dont understand the church or God in the church

Daniel 10 holds no basis for including Michael rather Jesus' statements (which is above Daniel or Angel Michael) on the importance of His name suffice.

otipoju:


It means:

Kindle the lights
The Holy lights from heaven above.

It is a second song at the beginning of the service and sung for the duration the seven candle sticks on the altar are being lit by the person designated to do so.

The song after that is :

Yah rah man hi ya ra man.
Yah rah man
Yah man Yah ra man .

Translated
Oh come unto the Lord,
Oh come unto the Lord


As the song starts we all kneel down and once it ends, we bow down our heads 3 times in submission to God our creator .

Beautiful sight i tell you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58oQSbZqls

otipoju:


Abi no be una? Even after Moses died, the Satan was still dragging with Angel Michael over his dead body until Angel Michael rebuked him again in the name of the Lord in Jude 1 verse 9.

Una think sey this world na joke? Wake up people !!!

From my experience sir, other part of the world might be a joke, but this part of the world where I happened to find myself, Yorubaland, is a serious 'yoke', if you 'walk alone'.

I rest my case.

Hmm @ some comments.

Built2last:


Where did Jesus tell us to light it when we need concentration or purification. Where. You were told so and you believed without asking yourself why do I practice this. Why didn't Christ or paul or any of the disciples make reference to use of candles. Its human doctrine introduced by your church founders and it's not from God.

Did Apostlicsm end with Paul or any of the disciples? Did God stop giving man/mankind instructions after the Bible? Is the compilation we know as the Holy Bible the beginning and end of God's word for mankind?

The problem the Jews had with Jesus is similar to what most have with Celestial Church -they can't comprehend Jesus according to what Moses had taught them -Jesus is being blasphemous to the Almighty God -God doesn't have a Son -it's not in the book Moses gave them.

You're asking where Jesus tell us to light? Do you do all Jesus asks? Would you do all Jesus asks? Jesus asked a man to go have a bath in a stream to have his sight (after rubbing mud He he had made on his face), Jesus o, the Son of God, that all things were created through Him. Can you ever go do a stream bath? You would even say, it's not Biblical. Or said, 'it's so old testament, like Elisha did that, but this is new testament, just say a word'. Like Jesus condemned the old testament or when pastors want to hammer their campaign for tithes, they don't use the old testament to their advantage.

Who are we to box God on His machinations? How dare us think God can only work in certain ways and not in His way He chooses when He chooses?

Still, John of Patmos would write his Revelation of what Heaven is like in chapter 4. Celestial as the names depicts, is the representation of Heaven on earth.

#Cheers!

tiredoflife:

He dey fear
Cele good yet u comot

A question non of the previous comments could ask

Kallmerb:
I don't know where you worshipped maybe it's the parish but I can clearly tell you most of what you wrote are totally False ...also claiming you understand the Bible and still wrote this is really disappointing ..I don't know the lies you are feed but if truly you want to learn the Bible locate a good Celestial church....or else pray at home for urself and tell God to open ur inner eyes and mind to understand his Word.


Truth is there are Good and bad in all churches,sects and denomination...some people have had bad and awful experience in some bad parishes doesn't mean all celestial church are bad ....

Imagine You were Born in Celestial church and doesn't even understand why Angel Micheal is included in our prayer structure .. are you sure you even read your Bible to Daniel 10

What has your family been doing in Celestial church if you dont understand the church or God in the church

I still stand on my point! You guys don't really study the Bible to the fullest understand cos if you do most of your practices/doctrines would have been abolished!

Tell us why Michael is included in your prayer structure. Remember, angels are not meant to be worshipped or prayed to.

otipoju:


How is it that in the book of Revelation when John was shown a vision of the heavens and the end of the ages, as he was imprisoned on the island of Patmos...The altar IS there. Incense burning IS there. Bowing heads down in worship IS there. The redeemed dressed in white robes IS there.
Because what was shown to Moses to copy centuries before Jesus Christ was born on earth is the same place John was shown in the beginning.

As it was in the beginning , it is now and ever shall be.

Those things exist independent of the testaments/covenants God entered into with the Israelites on the mountain and the new testament he entered into with believers in the salvific work of Christ by his death and resurrection.

Moses copied what was he was shown in heaven. The alter of God existed before God entered into the old mosaic covenant with the Israelites, it was existing while he made the new covenant with those who would believe in christ and forever continues to exist even after the new covenant

It is independent of it.

A lot of you say things you guys say are what you either half understand or dont even have a clue about.

What exactly do you mean when you say you worship God? What exactly is a practice? It means something you do repeatedly isnt it? Now Jesus broke bread and told his disciples to do it in memory of him...the continued observance of this act by Christian's is it not a religious practice where God is worshipped?

Now if worship and religious practices are inseparable how then can you say God wants you to worship him and not carry out religious practices.?

What if I tell you Jesus Christ had long been visiting planet earth and helping the Israelites in battle, commanding the spiritual army long before the appointed time for him to be born in a manger as a child
Read Joshua chapter 5 for this info. We know it was him because Angel's do not accept the worship from man as evidenced by bowing of heads down to the ground in (Revelation 19:10 and 22:8–9).

Sir, thanks for your contribution on this topic. I will contact you personally on the research work I started last year October on Celestial Church of Christ. There is no perfect Church on Earth except those established by Christ himself. Explaining Bible from known to unknown to a person will always lead to argument and wastage of time. It takes a divine spirit for a church started by an uneducated poor man (Pa SBJ Oshoffa) in a poorly built wooden house beside Lagoon to attract a person in the 70s who later became General Superintendent (GS) of one of the largest Pentecostal churches in Africa. When they leave CCC to establish other churches they complain of the bad side of the church, what about the spiritual empowerment and revelations which they got? What about the Prophetic Spirit and school of the Holy Spirit which they passed through?

While I don't want to talk about C & S here, I will like to point out that Prophet Josiah Akindayomi, the founder of Redeemed Christian Church was a member and a great prophet of C & S before he left and later established RCCG. The Spirit of Prophet does not just leave a person because it does not know church or operates by Church. Baba carried the spirit till death and his Prophetic Staff (Opa Woli) was with him till death, It is even likely that staff was handed over to his successor. I believed Baba with his wives (until very few years before his death) have altar at home where they pray and God answered and the prophetic spirit was very powerful the way it had been right from C & S.

Talking about Old Testament and New Testament will bring a lot of argument by people who don't know much. The Catholic Church has explained so many things about sacramental but Pentecostal church will not agree. When you talk about Angels, they will blindly quote Bible, but Christ himself believe in the Ministry of the Angels and nearly all their G.Os believe in the Ministry of the Angels. The Feast of the Arch Angels (September 29) is just to remind Christians of the Ministry of the Angels. The G.O of a popular Pentecostal Church who was surprised by a big Thanksgiving Offering from his prominent member and wanted to know how the Miracle happened until the man told him he secretly visited a Celestial prophet when the Sickness was getting worse and got healed. The G.O asked him to return the offering to the Celestial Prophet and also requested to see the Prophet. They (GO) know there are diverse spiritual ways. Apostle Thomas Ministry in India will be different from Apostolic Ministry to Turkey.

The Holy Spirit raises prophets for particular area because of the peculiarity of the situation in that area. Despite various radical and aggressive evangelism by different Pentecostal churches with abracadabra and miracles crusade, the Celestial Church despite various crisis after the transition of Pa SBJ Oshoffa has remained very vibrant and dynamic. There is a Spiritual Force propelling that Church.

otipoju:


This is an open forum bring up your concerns and let us thrash them out here. I dont know what your brother saw but I know it can never be as savage as the Redeemed Pastor that impregnated a young female church member and then hired Assassins to kill her right there on the church premises.

1. Have you ever bothered to ask why the name of Angel Michael is called during prayers. Do you know the biblical basis for that. If yes, does it not make perfect sense to you especially if you remember that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and rulers of darkness. Also how or what does the Kingdom of God look like in terms of administration? Is Angel Michael ever worshipped or praised in Celestial?

Did I hear you say Cele beliefs are biblical but they are unchristian...how contradictory?

2. Let me hold a mirror to you so that you see yourself. I dont know if you are male or female or wether you are married or not but the question still applies have you ever had premarital sex severally ? I am sure the answer is YES. Is that action biblical and Christian like. Definetely NO...so humble yourself abeg and stop sounding like you have a ench beside God where you sit day and night.

I would be glad if you can tell my why Angel Michael is included in your prayer structure.

Saying an act is biblical and unchristian is contradicting really portrays your little knowledge and understanding about the Bible. At the surface, it is indeed paradoxical but look beyond the surface. Most of your practices are biblical because they are gotten or they originated from the old testament. Some of which are burning of incense, not putting on foot wear, making sacrifices and the likes. They are unchristian because Christ's death put an end to all those Mosaic and old-testamentary practices. Take time to study the New Testament very well. That's my advice for you.

Virginnn:
hian
And they just pushed this post to front page hurriedly.
This must be a paid advertisement.
My own advice is that we should not consider doctrines but read our Bible to ascertain if the doctrines of our denomination is in tandem with biblical principles.
True worshippers according to Jesus worship God in spirit and in truth. The spirit here means cultivating the fruitage of the spirit as outlined in Galatians 5:21 -23. The truth here has to do with abiding by the word of God as stated in the Bible.
Christianity is supposed to be a very simple religion. But people tend to complicate it with spurious doctrines as if each one trying to give their denomination a brand.
If I attend church A and you attend church B. There must be differences in doctrines, yet we all claim to be reading the same Bible. Is our God a God of division? Just like some worshippers in the first century were alligning with Paul and some with Appolos. Paul promptly rebuked them. Our God is one God.

Gbam in fact gbamest

Good piece, CCC is clearly the last ship of salvation. Take it to the bank. A place you worship and grow spiritually, if you are sincere and anyone that is evil fears you. Mind you he that fears you, can't hurt you. Hallelluia somebodyyyyyyyyy

Askme2020:

how much.

0 8 0 64 9 4 32 9 7 whatsapp me

BitmapStudios:


Did Apostlicsm end with Paul or any of the disciples? Did God stop giving man/mankind instructions after the Bible? Is the compilation we know as the Holy Bible the beginning and end of God's word for mankind?

The problem the Jews had with Jesus is similar to what most have with Celestial Church -they can't comprehend Jesus according to what Moses had taught them -Jesus is being blasphemous to the Almighty God -God doesn't have a Son -it's not in the book Moses gave them.

You're asking where Jesus tell us to light? Do you do all Jesus asks? Would you do all Jesus asks? Jesus asked a man to go have a bath in a stream to have his sight (after rubbing mud He he had made on his face), Jesus o, the Son of God, that all things were created through Him. Can you ever go do a stream bath? You would even say, it's not Biblical. Or said, 'it's so old testament, like Elisha did that, but this is new testament, just say a word'. Like Jesus condemned the old testament or when pastors want to hammer their campaign for tithes, they don't use the old testament to their advantage.

Who are we to box God on His machinations? How dare us think God can only work in certain ways and not in His way He chooses when He chooses?

Still, John of Patmos would write his Revelation of what Heaven is like in chapter 4. Celestial as the names depicts, is the representation of Heaven on earth.

#Cheers!

You are addressing this matter from reasoning and not Biblical point of view.

Jesus didn't instruct the blind man to do stream bath, he only said he should go to wash and judging from the context, it was his face since Jesus rubbed mud on his eyes. That Elisha did this does not suggest that it becomes a practice.

Tell me where emphasis was placed on practising stream bath.


Your shepherds also hammer on tithes telling you when you don't pay the 10%, it is 'idakuda' meaning anyhow payment. I first heard this in Cele back then. So, don't act as if it is not said in Cele too. Besides, knowledge is progressive and the basis of tithe has been exchanged for giving. We honour God by giving to him. So, it is more of value than law of 10%. We give God based on honour and how much we value Him and this is not bound by law of 10%. This is why I keep emphasising on studying the Bible to know more and allowing the Holy spirit to interpret His word.

Well, Cele makes us to believe God works in certain way as it is more of practice than being led by the Holy spirit. There should have been reforms if the Holy spirit is taken as priority as knowledge is never stagnant.

Celestial does not depicts the heavenly as if it does, are you then trying to say ALL CELESTIANS ARE THE REDEEMED AND SAINTS?

Even the Bible does not support this. Daily, we work out our salvation.

babaolofin:


Sir, thanks for your contribution on this topic. I will contact you personally on the research work I started last year October on Celestial Church of Christ. There is no perfect Church on Earth except those established by Christ himself. Explaining Bible from known to unknown to a person will always lead to argument and wastage of time. It takes a divine spirit for a church started by an uneducated poor man (Pa SBJ Oshoffa) in a poorly built wooden house beside Lagoon to attract a person in the 70s who later became General Superintendent (GS) of one of the largest Pentecostal churches in Africa. When they leave CCC to establish other churches they complain of the bad side of the church, what about the spiritual empowerment and revelations which they got? What about the Prophetic Spirit and school of the Holy Spirit which they passed through?

While I don't want to talk about C & S here, I will like to point out that Prophet Josiah Akindayomi, the founder of Redeemed Christian Church was a member and a great prophet of C & S before he left and later established RCCG. The Spirit of Prophet does not just leave a person because it does not know church or operates by Church. Baba carried the spirit till death and his Prophetic Staff (Opa Woli) was with him till death, It is even likely that staff was handed over to his successor. I believed Baba with his wives (until very few years before his death) have altar at home where they pray and God answered and the prophetic spirit was very powerful the way it had been right from C & S.

Talking about Old Testament and New Testament will bring a lot of argument by people who don't know much. The Catholic Church has explained so many things about sacramental but Pentecostal church will not agree. When you talk about Angels, they will blindly quote Bible, but Christ himself believe in the Ministry of the Angels and nearly all their G.Os believe in the Ministry of the Angels. The Feast of the Arch Angels (September 29) is just to remind Christians of the Ministry of the Angels. The G.O of a popular Pentecostal Church who was surprised by a big Thanksgiving Offering from his prominent member and wanted to know how the Miracle happened until the man told him he secretly visited a Celestial prophet when the Sickness was getting worse and got healed. The G.O asked him to return the offering to the Celestial Prophet and also requested to see the Prophet. They (GO) know there are diverse spiritual ways. Apostle Thomas Ministry in India will be different from Apostolic Ministry to Turkey.

The Holy Spirit raises prophets for particular area because of the peculiarity of the situation in that area. Despite various radical and aggressive evangelism by different Pentecostal churches with abracadabra and miracles crusade, the Celestial Church despite various crisis after the transition of Pa SBJ Oshoffa has remained very vibrant and dynamic. There is a Spiritual Force propelling that Church.

Biased conclusion even when we both know that there are abracadabra in Cele too. Do you know the driving force for the pentecostals? It is the power of Holyspirit at Pentecost which doesn't conform to practises.

God is not the God of methods.

Tankotanko:
Good piece, CCC is clearly the last ship of salvation. Take it to the bank. A place you worship and grow spiritually, if you are sincere and anyone that is evil fears you. Mind you he that fears you, can't hurt you. Hallelluia somebodyyyyyyyyy

No sir, a place you depend on prophecy without any personal growth and development and even clear understanding of the personal relationship God wants to have with you.

post=92383260:
Ghen ghen.. this gonna be one heck of a read.. especially as him add former so..

After reading.. i must admit wasn't what I was expecting.. anyway.. good one.. but you forget to add that some cele babes they get big yansh. Anyway come and buy your kids Educational Tablets now o

So true, sometimes I imagine if its anointed yansh

Nigerian Christians are the most ignorant followers I've ever come across, no wonder they're perishing in the hands of unbelievers.

All churches weren't ment to be the same, all the prophets in your bible (including Jesus Christ) had unique assignments, so why use your little brain, crowned with ignorance, decorated with hatred and tribalism to condemn another church?

I hate hypocrites.

Nauttyprof:


No sir, a place you depend on prophecy without any personal growth and development and even clear understanding of the personal relationship God wants to have with you.

You got it wrong, the church doesnt depend on prophecy but their dependency is in God in christ jesus. Again you are wrong to say there is not growth or development in the church because this church is one of the largest church in Nigeria today even after the death of d founder since 1985 , the church is the growing and winning souls for Christ.. Most importantly, those of you condemning this great church is not doing it because of God because God is capable of fighting His own battle or destroying anything evil as it so pleases him, rather are doing this things in d name of denomination or considering yours the best. leave it God to judge.

noble2faith:


I still stand on my point! You guys don't really study the Bible to the fullest understand cos if you do most of your practices/doctrines would have been abolished!

Tell us why Michael is included in your prayer structure. Remember, angels are not meant to be worshipped or prayed to.

I dont think even till now you still Understand the Bible

calabardick:
Nigerian Christians are the most ignorant followers I've ever come across, no wonder they're perishing in the hands of unbelievers.

All churches weren't ment to be the same, all the prophets in your bible (including Jesus Christ) had unique assignments, so why use your little brain, crowned with ignorance, decorated with hatred and tribalism to condemn another church?

I hate hypocrites.

the funny thing is Christ didn't even bring any religion ..we made Christ a religion

Kallmerb:
I dont think even till now you still Understand the Bible

Oga Ade answer question and stop playing smart!

Nauttyprof:


Daniel 10 holds no basis for including Michael rather Jesus' statements (which is above Daniel or Angel Michael) on the importance of His name suffice.

Still go back re read your Bible then come back and I will ask God to open your eyes....stop following hearsay ..pls Follow Christ...even Christ doesn't judge ..suddenly you are in a Pentecostal church and now u are judge and jury because you lack depth understanding of a church you claim you attended

noble2faith:


Oga Ade answer question and stop playing smart!

No he said he attended it I won't waste my time explaining what he lacked while there

excel222:
You got it wrong, the church doesnt depend on prophecy but their dependency is in God in christ jesus. Again you are wrong to say there is not growth or development in the church because this church is one of the largest church in Nigeria today even after the death of d founder since 1985 , the church is the growing and winning souls for Christ.. Most importantly, those of you condemning this great church is not doing it because of God because God is capable of fighting His own battle or destroying anything evil as it so pleases him, rather are doing this things in d name of denomination or considering yours the best. leave it God to judge.

that's So simple ....rather than condemning a church you don't understand why not just Focus on building your Spiritual life and work towards making Heaven...

Why do Christains find this Hard to Do?

This set of people are the set that will tell you Muslims won't make heaven..

Why all this judge and jury?

Kallmerb:
No he said he attended it I won't waste my time explaining what he lacked while there

Explain why Michael is included in your prayer structure when it is rightly and clearly stated in the Bible that angels are not to be worshipped.

Kallmerb:
Still go back re read your Bible then come back and I will ask God to open your eyes....stop following hearsay ..pls Follow Christ...even Christ doesn't judge ..suddenly you are in a Pentecostal church and now u are judge and jury because you lack depth understanding of a church you claim you attended

Hmmm..... I never made myself judge and jury. Get it right, you need depth of God's word to know more.

I detest even hearsay, I prefer knowing things myself. So, please don't judge me when you have no idea of the person.

You actually need to study your Bible for better insight. That's where you get it wrong when God wants to deal with an individual he does not ask another to be involved. So, you need to ask God for yourself.

excel222:
You got it wrong, the church doesnt depend on prophecy but their dependency is in God in christ jesus. Again you are wrong to say there is not growth or development in the church because this church is one of the largest church in Nigeria today even after the death of d founder since 1985 , the church is the growing and winning souls for Christ.. Most importantly, those of you condemning this great church is not doing it because of God because God is capable of fighting His own battle or destroying anything evil as it so pleases him, rather are doing this things in d name of denomination or considering yours the best. leave it God to judge.

I never said there is no growth or development in the church. Please, don't quote me wrongly as I am referring to personal growth experience.

I have had many encounters from not just one parish both the big and small.

So, please don't get me wrong

noble2faith:


I would be glad if you can tell my why Angel Michael is included in your prayer structure.

Saying an act is biblical and unchristian is contradicting really portrays your little knowledge and understanding about the Bible. At the surface, it is indeed paradoxical but look beyond the surface. Most of your practices are biblical because they are gotten or they originated from the old testament. Some of which are burning of incense, not putting on foot wear, making sacrifices and the likes. They are unchristian because Christ's death put an end to all those Mosaic and old-testamentary practices. Take time to study the New Testament very well. That's my advice for you.

John's vision of heaven in the book of heaven shown to him after the death of christ contain all these. What have you got to say to that? Moses was told to replicate some things he was shown a about heaven.

These means these things are independent of the old and new covenant. Do Celestians engage in animal sacrifice as an atonement for sin...definitely not. So how can you say Cele practices the old testament.

The problem is when you people say old and new testament...your mind goes to the books that were compiled at different eras.

You cant see grasp that testament means covenant as to what was required for the atonement for the sin of mankind. Celestians believe in the name and blood of Jesus christ as the restitution of sin, and reconciliation to the father. how then can you say then that Cele operates operating under the old testament?

The heavenly royal court and what goes on in it predates the first mosaic covenant, it predates the second covenant as well. It is independent of it. That is why what John saw several decades after the death of Christ is similar to what Moses, Daniel and Isaiah were shown.

Stop trying to put God in a box of your own making. God is the same today,yesterday and forever.

Its forvthecsamevreason that your Pastors are able to demand that your pay tithes because Abraham paid tithes....show me where it is in the new testament scriptures where Christians are commanded to pay tithes yet you do...tithes predated the Old Testament. Just like the heavenly court with its altar.