lyort:
korean engines usually don't have high integrity, he should just get a new one

diportivo:




who be dis Chairman? Promotervickky

chukel:
ignore that one shouting Vin check up and down. He thinks a vin check will tell a bad engine. Okpo.

adanny01:


You got my point right this time. Only that you don't think Kazeems can do it without veneer calipers or micrometer screw gauge.

If the conrod bearings are the usual weak spots, then I think it's worth a try since an 800k replacement no be beans. But I still won't advise him to drop off the engine for that. With a gear pump, it means the timing chain and pump must be removed first.

Engine is rotated to bring No 1 and 4 down and worked on and then later engine rotated to bring down No 2 and 3. That's how its done.

The packing is required if the journal is worn given too much clearance to the closest available bearing size. Papers have different thicknesses, so an appropriate one would be chosen and can be folded as required to adjust the thickness.

The packing is placed between the conrod and bearing so it works without hindering any oil flow since oil is needed on the moving face of bearing and journal only. Where a bearing has an oil hole, a hole is punched in the paper.

Every engine requires lubrication, 1ZZ requires it too. If done too tight, yes, 1getting required lubrication would pose a big threat to the crankshaft recreating the problem. This thing requires experience and with the right Mechanic, it can be done if its only conrod. Only that its stressful working under the car.

promotervickky:


I can prove you wrong with a lot of evidences

adanny01:


You will be surprised to know that it works and has been working for decades.

How does it work is the question you should be asking if you don't know.

For 2 yrs, the paper is still sitting inside the 1zz. The car has never stopped working 1 day or made any crankshaft noise since then. I prefer to put the paper than rebuild the engine. If i rebuilt that engine, something could have gone wrong by now.

And the paper is an 'if'.

If the paper can make the noise go away and work 100% with a 30k budget, would you prefer to rebuild the engine at say 200k or buy the engine at 800k? Meanwhile that rebuild is the worst option since there is no guarantees.

lyort:
not someone like me. i'll rather rebuild than manipulate. trust me, engines i rebuild perform better than the tokunbos in the market, unless the owner compromises on payment. i can't do anything less than what the factory recommends unless there's scarcity of parts then i can begin to think of a compromise

Inception:


I think you need to study the anatomy of that engine first before comparison to the Toyota 1zz or Honda k24 can be made.

Replacing the conrod bearings of all cylinders require the engine to be removed, due to a ladder frame used in the engine construction. It is similar to the 1az/ 2az series by Toyota.

If you have metal particles all over the place, it is pointless to just slap in conrod bearings and reuse oil pump/ balance shaft assy. The whole block must be torn apart and cleaned/ soaked in hot bath. Also in that scenario, The oil pump must be replaced, and with a new part to have peace of mind. The amount? 200k.

Now to bearing clearance. Your method depicts trial and error. I can say that being an Engineer, that would be unacceptable for a precision part. Like I said earlier, the precision levels involved here to get the right oil clearance is crazy. Get it wrong and your crank will either seize again due to oil starvation or excessive play that will lead to lack of oil pressure.

Truth is, that engine was poorly designed and manufactured. And Hyundai knows that. That is why till date they still replace the engines in these cars in the US and Canada.

GAZZUZZ:
450k plus loading....


Cc inception

GAZZUZZ:


It has turbo.... ₦800,000k plus

lyort:
not someone like me. i'll rather rebuild than manipulate. trust me, engines i rebuild perform better than the tokunbos in the market, unless the owner compromises on payment. i can't do anything less than what the factory recommends unless there's scarcity of parts then i can begin to think of a compromise

adanny01:


Initially you said only No 2 and 3 can't be removed but now all.

Ok o!

No be me get car o. No be me be mechanic so which one concern me. Op is following and should choose to either;

1. Slap in new bearings for 50k or less
2. Do your Engineer's rebuild at 400k or more
3. Get a toks engine at 800k

I was just saying that he has a choice but you say he has none.

I made my choice and with the 1ZZ. Even the mechanic who did it wanted me to rebuild but i said no. I never regretted my choice and even he is surprised.

One thing I must reiterate is that, even though Kazeems do a lot of shit, without them, most of us will not be driving cars.

Lastly, being an Engineer means you are a solution provider and doesn't mean you cannot use crude methods to achieve an acceptable result. What is the trial and error if you have a worn out bearing and you buy the same bearing (new) to replace?

If a new bearing as standard is 0.2mm (same as factory) and the crank shaft journal is measured with a micrometer gauge and found to be within factory spec, what trial and error would you say is done?

If the journal is worn by say 0.02mm and you can't find a 0.22mm bearing, can't you provide a solution? If you have a paper that is 0.02mm thick and use it to make up the difference, how much of guess work have you done?

Inception:


You are misunderstanding me @ the bolded.
I meant to remove all conrod bearings( including 2 and 3 which is not accessible because of the ladder frame) the engine must be dropped from the car , and the ladder frame removed.

First of all, you need to understand the root cause of why this engine failed, to avoid a similar failure after your band aid fix.This I listed and even explained in my prior posts. What if there are metallic particles scattered all over the place as you drop the pan? Do you honestly think slapping new bearings and adding paper to adjust clearance will solve the problem and not make it reoccur when the car is at top speed?

If you understand tolerance in machining and assembly, you will realise that the 0.02mm undersize from minimum required is enough to condemn a crankshaft in some engine designs and cause rod knock. Do you know that , due to high and unpredictable failures of this engine, the engine software of this particular car (2011- 2014 sonata ) was upgraded to make the knock sensors more sensitive to detect rod knock at its early stage? And once it is detected , you will have a flashing check engine light? Now you know.

As per your journal question, the solution is simple, measure , measure, measure! As engineers you were trained to use precision equipment like micrometers to guide you in descion making. There is a reason why engine manufacturers make oversize bearings. It is to cater for scenarios like this.
Once it is out of spec, it is best you replace crankshaft. Some engine designs are more forgiving to your crude methods. Some are not!

Why most people would buy a toks engine is because they want peace of mind . they want what would last, as they trust the process that put the engine together ( and has not been tampered with). An engine built with the right methods , tools and skill would last for years,( raking in thousands of miles) without problems.

There is a difference between a true engineer and an artisan.

Again i repeat, the engine in question must be built right, not patch patch work. You can get away with the band aid fix you did on the Toyota, but not on this Hyundai engine.

lyort:
low mileage is not proof a good car

lyort:
low mileage is not proof a good car

adanny01:


At the 1st bold, I did it before, didn't I. Why do you think its impossible.

What is the ladder frame exactly that blocks No 2 and 3 apart from the oil pump? How does it prevent you from losing the 2 bolts of the conrod cap from under the engine? Pls on your next post, please get some pics so that I will be convinced. At least, I will learn.

Talking about metallic particles, don't you think the 1zz had metallic particles too. There were actually metal particles. Why is an engine equipped with a filter and filter screens in certain places?

@ second bold, you honestly think that if you rebuild the engine, it will be indestructible, right?

The actual problem is that you are defeated by very knowledge you have. What you think is impossible is actually very possible but the truth is that you have decided not to acknowledge the possibility or at worst are limited by fear beyond the scope of your knowledge.

Who makes the choice here, its the op not you my friend. So why do you cling to your own method saying "no patch patch". Whatever the op decides is his own cross to bear, but you saying no to a possibility is just not acceptable.

I think (I stand to be corrected) slapping a conrod bearing will work, obviously not forever. You know it can work (you call it patch patch) but you still say it must be rebuilt. Can't you see the confusion, the choice isn't yours to make!

Remember, even my Kazeem told me to rebuild but now he does the same procedure on other cars earning money and saving clients from big expenses.

9icetoo:

They will never understand. Some low mileage cars haves idled for 50,000 hrs in stop and go traffic with oci of once a year. That's abuse. Yet they think 150k highway miles is high mileage. Others think that vin check will show a bad engine. I laugh.

Inception:


A ladder frame is basically the structural part of the engine block ( usually bolted on) that serves 2 purposes: housing the main crank journals /bearings and providing extra rigidity to the block itself. You can google that for more knowledge on the matter.

Saying I am defeated by my knowledge is quite unfortunate in this discourse. At no point did i say using your band aid fix was not possible, nor practical. I am only explaining here that for best results and peace of mind, work with factory specifications, particularly for the OP's engine. Working with your analogy could easily justify some of these practices our kazeems do ( e.g removal of thermostat and connecting the fans direct , a digression if you don't mind). we know that the car will still work, but not as intended from design. So in a nutshell it is what it is, a band aid fix , which must come with a caveat.

If you ask the owner , i bet he would ask for a solution that would give him peace of mind at the right cost, not one that his heart would be in his mouth throughout the period he owns the vehicle. Infact the only time he would love to cut corners is if he wants to sell the car asap and needs the car in ' run and drive ' condition . So if it is adding paper packing to the conrod bearing that gives him peace of mind, who am i to question him

As for kazeems, ask yours if he would attempt to rebuild this particular engine and hear his response

adanny01:


Finally you agree it will work.

Having gone through what op is going through, I tell you for a fact, after the first trip, he will celebrate and his confidence increases with every trip. There is no point putting fear in some one who is already scared of the worst which is engine replacement. Its not as if the engine will fall out of the vehicle.

Be positive for a change.

GAZZUZZ:


It has turbo.... ₦800,000k plus

iokpebholo:
This d singular reason I can never buy a Hyundai car with my money.A whole 800k for an engine that will still fail.Rubbish

adanny01:


Let me make this clear for the umpteenth time, the ability to follow factory specs is not what makes you good, but the ability to improvise when the factory specs have either failed or are unattainable.

Real engineers provide solutions to all problems not just provide solutions to those who can afford premium.

Will you still be a solution provider if your client does not have the finances to pay for your premium service? What new solution are you providing if all you do is follow factory specs.

As Engrs, we are trained to provide solutions using scientific methods. Following factory specs is not challenging enough, up your game. You make Kazeems look good.

Being a premium service provider is your choice. So don't make your choice every body else's.

If this op gets his engine back to full operation with 50k by a Kazeem and you quote him 500k, won't you be ashamed? At the end who solved a problem. Will it not be better if you provide the op a 30k, 500k and 800k solution for him to choose.

All these cars we buy cheap, why do you think we got them cheap? Next time you will tell op to buy a brand new car instead.

lyort:
i'm really disappointed, so you call yourself an engineer and you're saying all these.
tell me what improvisation that'll be carried out on a failed factory's design that'll cost less than the actual factory's cost of production or a repair that the factory's recommended systematic process of repair is unattainable according to the repair manual.

i provide solution to problems not based on how affordable it can be but based on my in-depth knowledge of how the motor works and what failure would occur whether minor or catastrophic if i make a certain compromise during my repair process

the paper parked bearing in your 1ZZ has not seen enough hard acceleration and speeds at full throttle on redline rpms that's why you're still beating your chest over such a crude manipulative repair process and my clients would've quit servicing their cars with me if they weren't satisfied with my service so this is how i define my class and distinguish myself from the kazeems whether they do the same job for 30k or even for free, my standard is my standard so there's nothing to be ashamed of, besides i don't repair engines that cost less than 200k to buy a toks in the market.

i make compromises only when there is scarcity of parts and cut down on my service charge if customers complain that the estimated cost of repair is too high and they can't afford but never will i go below my standard of repair

Doslop:
I bought a used car two days ago, Acura MDX 2003, before paying I took a good look at it, test drove and after two days I test drove again before paying, I have used this car with no issues, the only thing I was to replace was the AC compressor and condenser, which I planned to do onsaturday, the mistake I made was that I didn't test drive it on the high way, today I is the first day I drove it on the high way and noticed it doesn't go pass 90km/h. I have called the seller today, but he was driving I'll have to call him later to talk with him though but I need advise from the house, please help out.

Doslop:
I saw a Hyundai Sonata 2012 online and I liked the car so I called the seller and arranged for someone I know who is a driver he drives from Warri where I reside to Lagos every day so I told him to help me check out the car, since he’s a driver he should know about cars. So he got there checked the car and told me it is a perfect car that I should pay so I paid and he brought it to me.
When the car got home I started it and immediately I told him I don’t like the sound of the engine that it is too loud and he said it is fine I shouldn’t worry that’s how the car is.
When I drove it I discovered all the bearings on four legs were bad so I changed them the next day, and did lots of maintenance on it.
Fast forward exactly one week later which is yesterday I started hearing a metallic sound from the engine while I was driving so I quickly rushed to park the car. On calling a mechanic this morning he said the it is crankshaft and connecting rod noise that they have to dismantle the engine and change them or he’ll advise me to buy a new engine that if they repair the one on it it wouldn’t last at all.
I am here regretting my life who sent me to buy this car!

adanny01:


Trust me, most of my driving, I accelerate hard. I never ever get to redline but I always get up to 5krpm with AC on.

The message I am repeatedly trying to pass across to you is that, clients are not equal, some want cheap some prefer premium. From the sounds of you, you cannot service clients who can't afford premium service. What you do is not a crime but at least recognise the fact that not everyone wants premium car service irrespective of affordability.

A good Engr provides various solutions to a problem and recommends the best to the client. The client picks his choice knowing all the caveats you've put on the options.

What you do is provide one option, which is the factory repair manual. So what am telling you is that, take the factory manual away, what kind of Engr is left? You will be lost.

I have the factory repair manual of my car but when my car over heated in traffic due to a failed temp sensor, my manual says replace with exact same part but how do i get home. Should I leave the car there over night and risk losing it or connect fans direct. Does factory manual have process for direct fan connection? No. So the crude methods come to play.

If factory repair manual is the only thing you know, then am sorry to say, you are a mediocre Engr.

A good Engr knows both the factory repair manual and crude repairs. You are simply not good at your job if you don't know crude methods.

As for me, any rebuild that cost ½ of the cost of replacement is not worth it. If rebuilding is your main job, sorry me I just dey pity your clients. For me its either a 1cheap fix or outright replacement but nothing in between.

The bearing and paper I put in the 1zz was supposed to be a short fix for festive season which was 2 days before Christmas that year. It was to serve for a month before I buy the engine. Surprisingly, its been over 2yrs.

If paper is going to solve op's problem for a year, am 100% sure he will pick that option rather than the ridiculous cost of your premium rebuild that may not last 2yrs or the 800k toks engine that may not last a yr.

Come to think of it, do you even know that the paper's position doesn't make contact with a moving part? Have you ever seen the paper removed after say 2yrs of being in an engine? Until you see it, you should not talk.

adanny01:


Trust me, most of my driving, I accelerate hard. I never ever get to redline but I always get up to 5krpm with AC on.

The message I am repeatedly trying to pass across to you is that, clients are not equal, some want cheap some prefer premium. From the sounds of you, you cannot service clients who can't afford premium service. What you do is not a crime but at least recognise the fact that not everyone wants premium car service irrespective of affordability.

A good Engr provides various solutions to a problem and recommends the best to the client. The client picks his choice knowing all the caveats you've put on the options.

What you do is provide one option, which is the factory repair manual. So what am telling you is that, take the factory manual away, what kind of Engr is left? You will be lost.

I have the factory repair manual of my car but when my car over heated in traffic due to a failed temp sensor, my manual says replace with exact same part but how do i get home. Should I leave the car there over night and risk losing it or connect fans direct. Does factory manual have process for direct fan connection? No. So the crude methods come to play.

If factory repair manual is the only thing you know, then am sorry to say, you are a mediocre Engr.

A good Engr knows both the factory repair manual and crude repairs. You are simply not good at your job if you don't know crude methods.

As for me, any rebuild that cost ½ of the cost of replacement is not worth it. If rebuilding is your main job, sorry me I just dey pity your clients. For me its either a 1cheap fix or outright replacement but nothing in between.

The bearing and paper I put in the 1zz was supposed to be a short fix for festive season which was 2 days before Christmas that year. It was to serve for a month before I buy the engine. Surprisingly, its been over 2yrs.

If paper is going to solve op's problem for a year, am 100% sure he will pick that option rather than the ridiculous cost of your premium rebuild that may not last 2yrs or the 800k toks engine that may not last a yr.

Come to think of it, do you even know that the paper's position doesn't make contact with a moving part? Have you ever seen the paper removed after say 2yrs of being in an engine? Until you see it, you should not talk.

adanny01:


Trust me, most of my driving, I accelerate hard. I never ever get to redline but I always get up to 5krpm with AC on.

The message I am repeatedly trying to pass across to you is that, clients are not equal, some want cheap some prefer premium. From the sounds of you, you cannot service clients who can't afford premium service. What you do is not a crime but at least recognise the fact that not everyone wants premium car service irrespective of affordability.

A good Engr provides various solutions to a problem and recommends the best to the client. The client picks his choice knowing all the caveats you've put on the options.

What you do is provide one option, which is the factory repair manual. So what am telling you is that, take the factory manual away, what kind of Engr is left? You will be lost.

I have the factory repair manual of my car but when my car over heated in traffic due to a failed temp sensor, my manual says replace with exact same part but how do i get home. Should I leave the car there over night and risk losing it or connect fans direct. Does factory manual have process for direct fan connection? No. So the crude methods come to play.

If factory repair manual is the only thing you know, then am sorry to say, you are a mediocre Engr.

A good Engr knows both the factory repair manual and crude repairs. You are simply not good at your job if you don't know crude methods.

As for me, any rebuild that cost ½ of the cost of replacement is not worth it. If rebuilding is your main job, sorry me I just dey pity your clients. For me its either a 1cheap fix or outright replacement but nothing in between.

The bearing and paper I put in the 1zz was supposed to be a short fix for festive season which was 2 days before Christmas that year. It was to serve for a month before I buy the engine. Surprisingly, its been over 2yrs.

If paper is going to solve op's problem for a year, am 100% sure he will pick that option rather than the ridiculous cost of your premium rebuild that may not last 2yrs or the 800k toks engine that may not last a yr.

Come to think of it, do you even know that the paper's position doesn't make contact with a moving part? Have you ever seen the paper removed after say 2yrs of being in an engine? Until you see it, you should not talk.

adanny01:


Trust me, most of my driving, I accelerate hard. I never ever get to redline but I always get up to 5krpm with AC on.

The message I am repeatedly trying to pass across to you is that, clients are not equal, some want cheap some prefer premium. From the sounds of you, you cannot service clients who can't afford premium service. What you do is not a crime but at least recognise the fact that not everyone wants premium car service irrespective of affordability.

A good Engr provides various solutions to a problem and recommends the best to the client. The client picks his choice knowing all the caveats you've put on the options.

What you do is provide one option, which is the factory repair manual. So what am telling you is that, take the factory manual away, what kind of Engr is left? You will be lost.

I have the factory repair manual of my car but when my car over heated in traffic due to a failed temp sensor, my manual says replace with exact same part but how do i get home. Should I leave the car there over night and risk losing it or connect fans direct. Does factory manual have process for direct fan connection? No. So the crude methods come to play.

If factory repair manual is the only thing you know, then am sorry to say, you are a mediocre Engr.

A good Engr knows both the factory repair manual and crude repairs. You are simply not good at your job if you don't know crude methods.

As for me, any rebuild that cost ½ of the cost of replacement is not worth it. If rebuilding is your main job, sorry me I just dey pity your clients. For me its either a 1cheap fix or outright replacement but nothing in between.

The bearing and paper I put in the 1zz was supposed to be a short fix for festive season which was 2 days before Christmas that year. It was to serve for a month before I buy the engine. Surprisingly, its been over 2yrs.

If paper is going to solve op's problem for a year, am 100% sure he will pick that option rather than the ridiculous cost of your premium rebuild that may not last 2yrs or the 800k toks engine that may not last a yr.

Come to think of it, do you even know that the paper's position doesn't make contact with a moving part? Have you ever seen the paper removed after say 2yrs of being in an engine? Until you see it, you should not talk.

lyort:
you're nothing short of a charlatan if you mistake emergency repair for actual repairs. comparing a quick fix to your failed temp. sensor in traffic where all you need is just a temporal solution to keep you going to such an extensive repair such as an engine overhaul that should be carried out in a well equipped workshop. talk of emergency repairs, you're an infant to me.

i took off from ilorin in a 2008 camry and had a failed belt, thank God it happened close to a gas station that has a mechanic beside it. boda kazeem had only one used undersize belt that did not fit. what's more important here? water pump, alternator and power steering. i routed the belt to drive these three and left out the compressor and told my commuters, no ac for the rest of the journey

after driving a few miles, alternator failed in the middle of nowhere. i opened the bonnet, got to the fusebox and took out abs fuses and relays, headlamp fuses, trafficator fuses, went to the rear and took out all tail light bulbs, disconnected radiator fans. all that was left to run on battery power was the brainbox plus everything it controls and the fuel pump. i entered lagos after 2hours of driving and battery gave up just as i drove into the compound.

if crude repair is the only thing you can offer if you find yourself in a well equipped workshop, you're amore mediocre engineer. did you leave your car to keep running on the quick fix you did in traffic or you went to the workshop and did a proper replacement of the sensor afterwards.

quick fix can never take the place of actual repairs.