₦airaland Forum

I am holding my self from saying I regret being born in this country because of the above comments. I believe they are from people of a particular region. Instead of us to hold our politicians accountable and demand good governance, some unreasonable clowns are celebrating the mass exodus of corrupt politicians to another corrupt party. I wonder what is their problem here? Is it illiteracy or tribal bigotry 🤔

btoks:
No, it's faith and works. baptism apart from faith does not save. In the case of infants, the faith of the parents/ godparents stands in until the child can profess their own faith just as in the old covenant, infants were included through circumcision.Paul links to baptism in Col 2:11–12.

While there’s no verse that explicitly says “baptise infants,” we see strong clues here:

Acts 2:38–39 – “The promise is for you and your children.”

Acts 16:15,33 and 1 Cor 1:16 – Entire households were baptised. a typical jewish household would naturally include children

Mark10:14 Jesus welcomed children into God's Kingdom with no age limit.


Early Christians practiced infant baptism with no issues, in fact the main debate was whether to wait gor 8 days or not before baptism. While individual church leaders can be wrong, the entire church guided by the holy spirit cant be wrong. Early church affirmed infant bsptism.

Some qoutes from early church fathers:
Origen (c. 185–254 AD)

“The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants.”
– Commentary on Romans 5:9


Hippolytus of Rome (c. 170–235 AD)

“Baptize first the children; and if they can speak for themselves, let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them.”

Cyprian of Carthage (c. 200–258 AD)

“As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth... We all thought otherwise…that the mercy and grace of God should be denied to no person born.”
– Letter to Fidus, Epistle 64(59)

well, am going to leave you to your believe. though the scriptures you listed doesn't support infants being baptized because it has to be a conscious decision as there are no records of infants or children baptized.

btoks:
You may disagree, but I’ve stated early Church teaching, supported by patterns within Scripture as per refs in my previous post. In cases where children cannot profess faith themselves, the Church entrusts this responsibility to parents/ godparents, who then commit to raising the child in the faith.
The Holy Spirit is present and active in a valid baptism and this has been taught since the early church. Water and Spirit baptism are connected deeply.
You seem to be going against scriptures regarding baptisimal regeneration when you you state that baptism doesn't save -
Peter speaks directly to this in1 Peter 3:18–21, where he compares baptism to the waters of the flood.
“.......Baptism which corresponds to this ,now saves you not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

so one can be saved without believing and confessing Jesus but by baptism alone, Yes or no? Secondly, were in the scriptures is infant or children baptism illustrated or supported? Don't tell me church leaders because church leaders can be wrong.

btoks:
Thanks, however, we have different interpretations of what baptism is. The apostolic Churches teach that baptism is not just a symbol, as per John 3:5 and Peter 3:21, which show baptism is more than an outward act. Romans 6:3-4 also says we are united with Christ’s death and resurrection through baptism. This shows that the holy spirit is there at baptism

To show how important baptism is, from early Christianity even infants have been baptised with the parents/godparents professimg faith on the child’s behalf and takimg responsibility for raising them in the faith.
We see seeds of this in Colossians 2:11-12 which connects baptism to circumcision (infants were circumcised in the old convenabt), also whole households were baptised in Acts 16. So baptism is the new covenant way of entering God’s family.

Several Church Fathers also confirm that the apostles handed down this practice of baptising infants.
Therefore baptism, is a sacrament of grace not just a symbol.

ok, so one can just get baptized without believing and confessing Jesus as Lord and be saved? Because that is where your argument seems to be pointing to and this i disagree. Because you will always hear the people believed and were baptized. And you even don't seem to believe in the Holy Ghost baptism which is the real thing but the water is just a symbol. Please Baptism itself does not save, I guess you are Catholic.

btoks:
This isnt a new debate and the church has already dealt with this for centuries. It is Faith plus works when the whole bible is read in context not by plucking verses here and there to justify the protestant doctrine of sola fide!.

By quoting Romans 10:8-17 you can't go against Jesus' words in John 3: 5 or Peter words, 'baptism now saves you" in 1 Peter 3:21. Please also see James 2 24 - “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”

So, the apotolic Churches believe the teaching about faith in Christ but also emphasise that faith must be expressed through actions and obedience such as baptism.

We are saying the same thing from different view point. For one to be baptized, and mind you, water baptism is just a symbol of what transpired in the spirit. The true baptism is in the spirit, a baptism with the holy Spirit and fire
Luke.3.16 - John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

for one to be baptized in water, he/ she has to believe in their heart. That is why you will hear words like they believe and they baptized. Then the confession is a open proclamation. Maybe the disciples then before baptism will ask, do you believe that Jesus is the son of The most high God and God raised him from the dead? This they will affirm and are baptized.

btoks:
In this day and age, the born again person would likely have a baptimal certificate showing the date they were baptised. Being born again is from water and holy spirit = baptism. This is clearly taught in John 3:5 and affirmed by early Church Fathers like Justin Martyr and Irenaeus and still carries on to date in Catholic, Orthodox and even Lutheran churches. Evangelicals changed the meaning of being born again - this is a later development.

please read Romans 10:8-17 then come back let's talk.

EponObi:
This month just hard like two-day old fufu for the Obidients and ELON families

Back to back knocks and disappointments.

As the proprietress dey chop knock, na so the sheep dey chop disappointments too

why are you infatuated with obidients?

Delta Force. The first movie I rent with 20 or 30 naira

markidoo:
Next of Kin go turn poor Man pikin

😂😂😂😂😂 this got me laughing out loud in a bank.

pinkyng:
Ameri'lokan
https://naturex.carrd.co/

funniest thing online today

Hannahglobal:
Infact someone dashed me 10m but because he used gtb i returned the money

yes why did you return the money back to me

Quelme:
We attribute everything to pray, pray and prayer when it was a simple mistake which is not uncommon in all fields of life.

The backwardness in the mind of a black man is straight outta this universe.

This was simply a case of a mistake that was detected in time and corrected accordingly. Not unusual here.

I guess you're mentally blind. Didn't you read when she said she tried all avenue but it was not still corrected? They told her the only solution is to rewrite which means an extra year. She knows what she's talking about and she's giving God the glory so shut up

Putindbutt:
Tell your father to pray for it.

don't worry Old Roger will get up and give you a knock.

Putindbutt:
Why are Obidients running away from this thread?. Is Natasha no longer your new hero?. .

when you wake up in the morning always pray for God to give you sense

AZControversial:


Congratulations to guys.....!!!

I was hoping you all would have forgotten my comment.....

rapheal5:
I had erection during church service, the erection was as a result of the song ministration, I think it triggers something in my brain..

it triggered nothing. Your mind is not pure that's why. Although erections can happen anytime, any day, and anywhere. Women don't know what we are passing through 😁

seanfer:
Did Tinubu lose the 2023 election? All 3 major candidates lost some states, What matters is that Tinubu won with the highest number of votes as declared by INEC.

dey deceive yourself win indeed. If not for corrupt eyeneck the drug lord would have been sent to exile. You guys like supporting failures, I am ashamed of sharing this country with people like you 😡

NewHe:
That's how you guys will be painting the police bad? The story says someone alleged he's part of a street gangs terrorising neighbours and was on trial, so how did police frame him up?

then let the officer and DPO go and defend themselves.

OnionBandit:
The boy fit be creemeenal, but trust Peter Hoebi supporters to get emotional because he was their star boy when their fraud Messiah visited Lagos.

you are a fool. You and the 80 people that like your comments are big fools. Rubbish. After reading the whole posts your paralyzed brain still has the ability to construct this rubbish?

If your friends can't support you and encourage you to achieve your goals but rather laugh at you and mock you, then I dare say you are in the wrong click. Be wise

anonimi:
Luke 19: 1-9

Jesus Christ did not declare salvation until Zaccheus had promised restitution.

Luke.19.7 - And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
Luke.19.8 - And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
Luke.19.9 - And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

And Jesus asked him to restitute? The guy just did it willingly. And if you read verses 9 the last sentence, Jesus said he is also a Child of Abraham.

This is not the verses we should even be deliberating on. If restitution is so important as you guys claim. The Epistles would have done justice to it and it would have been stated as a necessity for salvation but the bible say

Rom.10.9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom.10.10 - For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Why do you guys like adding yoke on peoples neck

IbrahimSola:
When you're truly born again, OLD THINGS PASS AWAY. You become a NEW person because someone had already done the atonement on the cross.

That is why genuine repentance is KEY. Not like some pastors who preach but still hide to commit the same sin and go back to ask for forgiveness.

2 Timothy 2:19 says Let everyone who calls on the name of Jesus (or professes the name of Jesus) DEPART from evil. You can't be born again and still keep doing evil

The solution lies in DEPARTING from evil and not merely professing the name Jesus. Restituting is meaningless because someone had already paid for all your sins.

some people like the Op are Pharisees. Imagine him saying without restitution people will go to hell? That's adding to God's word. Abeg I want to go to church let nobody vex me this morning.

anonimi:
God speaking through Christ said that your repentance is incomplete without restitution.

Why do you want to make Him a liar

Oga give us the passage Jesus said so.

cutecommend:
If you have stolen money or things in your office, stole from friend or neighbour, forged certificate, had children from paternity fraud, committed adultery, lied against someone, falsely accuse someone, duped people, did internet fraud, slept with someone's wife, slept with someone's husband, slept with your EX few days/weeks etc. to your wedding, killed a neighbour and covered it up, slandered someone, used a close person for rituals, poisoned someone, tied someone's destiny with juju e.t.c, when you genuinely repent from sin, do you still need to go clear your conscience by apologising to those people or their loved ones, or are you to move forward?

When you repent genuinely, God forgives you totally and you begin to enjoy His presence. But as you begin to move on, the HolySpirit will begin to tell you of some things you need to go and make peace about, stolen things to return e.t c. It could be people you hurt so bad that you need to apologize to. At this moment if you snub such leading of the HolySpirit, you become disobedient and it is sin. The HolySpirit is willing to assist you if you pray to Him for grace to make peace with those you have offended.

When the HolySpirit reminds you of something to confess, restitute e.t.c, if you refuse to do it, you will not enter heaven. And yes, the HolySpirit helps a lot if you pray for His assistance in make peace with anyone. He is a Helper in many things.

Pray this morning: Lord Jesus Christ, please forgive me all my sins, come into my life and be my Lord and personal Saviour in Jesus name. Amen.
Attend a good church also.

Happy Sunday to you.

Sorry to say but this is just your opinion it's not a criteria for the kingdom of God neither is it a doctrine. The only criteria for God's kingdom is
Rom.10.9 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom.10.10 - For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Kog45:
The two late pastors,I meant pastor and pastor Mrs Odukoya failed in their children upbringing.

you are just saying rubbish. Do you know he was into ministry before he was made G.O. go and watch him preaching in 2016. You people just sit behind your keyboard and type whatever nonsense that comes to your mind

mannobi:
Another Samson has emerged from Nigeria.

😂😂😂😁

Ibkay32:
We’re genuinely doing our best here in Nigeria, but South Africa? E be like say them dey operate on a whole different frequency education and not in a good way.

Just ask Samantha a few simple logic questions. You’d honestly start to wonder if she even passed through basic education, because the kind of answers she gives? Pure comedy. It’s like watching someone freestyle confusion with confidence. You’ll be left speechless, trying to decide whether to laugh or cry.

😂😂😂😂😂 Watin Samantha do you na? You just finished the Sad Africa girl🥲

SultanOfPuna:
commentvwith facts. Not emotion.
Martin Luther was the creator of pentecistalism and he was a catholic but broke out of it to form pentecostal.
Once again comment with facts!!
Not emotions

Oga Martin Luther did not form Pentecostalism. The group he formed is referred to as protestants and there arestill standing until this day though they are known as Lutheran's

SultanOfPuna:
During the early church, pentecostals where radicals that broke off from catholic church to go and form their own doctrine.

Pentecostal churches twisted and twisted the gospel to favour them.

Now we have over 200 million pentecostal churches/business centers in Nigeria alone.

All they do is milking the gulliable
By twisting scriptures
Knowning fully well that people hardly read their bible.

your post is reeks of ignorance. Pentecostal churches didn't break or originate from Catholic Church. Catholic Church and her idolatrous practices is not recognized in the Bible. Go and read church history then you will appreciate the role of protestants in the early church