₦airaland Forum

candylips:
correct. an iterative waterfall method would suffice for such complex system. Agile will be a disaster.

am sure this will soon degenerate into an agile vs waterfall war . . .

there are situations whereby it makes absolute sense to use waterfall . . yes

and there are occasions whereby u will be daft to use waterfall

delomos:
While it's nice to learn terminologies, it's more important to learn practicalities and edges, and I'd quote again (just in case it's missed the 1st time):
Now back to regular programming:^^ I'm not sure if you're still talking agile here, for a bit, don't get to stuck on the name, think about the process.

Ghenghis:
An iteration usually has a recommended time frame (few weeks), what you do within iteration is a function of your teams size and run rate. You deliver complete use cases within iterations (Something the customer can test end to end). So debiting a customer is not one use case while crediting the recipient another.

Ghenghis:
Don't mix Test driven Development with unit testing, they are quite different.
Its good you're not a bank then (I have developed internet banking apps for many banks ,   

Ghenghis:
Lets take GTBank for instance (I didn't develop that). If you've used their internet banking new features come out all the time. It started with :
balance inquiry facilities.
Self account transfers.
Within GTBank Transfers
GTbank to other account using NEFT
GTBank to other accounts using NIBBS Instant Payment etc.

Are you saying these functionality can't be delivered in phases ? (They were , ) Why do you think you know everything upfront ? the bank doesn't, CBN doesn't and NIBBS certainly don't(there are 2 very different versions of the same functionality)

delomos:
What does *solid* mean to you?

delomos:
If you're designing an "academic" bank, your approach will work where most often you understand *all* the total requirement before you start building, in the real world, it doesn't work like so.

delomos:
^^ TDD/BDD == Agile BUT Agile != TDD/BDD

Ghenghis:
That very unlikely, are you talking about building a core banking system ? That's millions of dollars in software development, maybe less for a micro finance bank ,
Besides building the core does not absolve you of the responsibility to integrate. You'll almost always meet legacy systems. The bank must have been using something before you came on the scene, and they're not likely going to completely rip that out for your version 1.0_Final

Ghenghis:
In reality organizations usually use a single methodology, and it also means they usually bid for the same type of projects.

Agile methodologies fits well for a banking environment because :
1. Lot of change due to business dynamism
2. Lots of undocumented applications and processes

You definitely need iterative releases. I once developed an integration component for a Bank, it was built to their specifications, we had user acceptance tests , the works. Needless to say what happened when we went into production was another kettle of fish.
Banks keep lots of junk, agile methods are definitely the viable option (At least iterative delivery and lots of customer involvement).

delomos:
^^ After understanding the requirements and expectations (generally consisting of interviewing the stake holders and would-be users), I will [most likely] follow a behavioral/test-driven development. And might this looks like a candidate for MVC/P.

Testing is given priority considering the "things" at stake, and things might appear closer to the real world in MVC/Ps, but then, I'm assuming.

Ghenghis:
Yes you implement patterns, my point is that its not class diagrams or UML.
Its also not code.

Ghenghis:
I wanted to look for a supporting references and voila wiki :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern

A design pattern is not a finished design that can be transformed directly into code. It is a description or template for how to solve a problem that can be used in many different situations. So patterns are formalized best practices that you must implement yourself in your application.[1] Object-oriented design patterns typically show relationships and interactions between classes or objects, without specifying the final application classes or objects that are involved.

http://www.vogella.de/articles/DesignPatterns/article.html
A design pattern is not framework and is not directly deployed via code.

Ghenghis:
I don't really agree with all of this : Design patterns does not provide an alternative for development from scratch. Its not also not strictly an API or code base, though some vendors implement the pattern in there API.
using class diagrams not not using design patterns

delomos:
I see you're a fan of terminologies (perhaps archaic it seems), see this link (quite an interesting review of the book 'Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software', the punch lines are in the comments): http://www.amazon.com/review/R1YW4R3VD4PBEJ/ref=cm_cr_dp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0201633612&nodeID=283155&tag=&linkCode=

Ghenghis:
When you develop a "simple" app to allow customers debit their account and credit another one : The number of things that can go wrong are so many, its sometimes mind boggling.
When i write (or i'm supposed to write) code sometimes, I just sit and keep thinking. No matter how smart or good you are we all make mistakes, every line of code you write is a potential bug. So there no point rushing, Its a question of picking the one that'll have the smallest negative impact.

delomos:
"CMMI" is definitely off-topic here: "CMMI is registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office by Carnegie Mellon University." (from your link above).

logica:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability_Maturity_Model_Integration
I remember my last company was CMMI Level 3 certified. CMMI was the biggest buzz word about 6 years ago.

delomos:
Never seen this PCCM thing before, so much to learn, so little time (*sighs*). Can you send me a reference paper or link that expatiates on this? Your point on it wasn't very clear too, please clarify.

delomos:
#3. I have no problem with PP, though I don't see the need for a developer sitting over another's shoulder and probing design/algorithm choices (a recipe for fist fights ) on a micro level when tool like GitHub could let you do in-line code review per commits. Just encourage best practices, have a team mentor and everyone check-in often.
.

delomos:
Waterfall is dying rather slowly, it's expensive and unpredictable.

Fayimora:
For the first 3, you do need a system analyst and designer(might not be necessary).

HOWEVER, note that all these would COST you money. Personally, I would just start step by step, the agile way but at a moderate pace. If you do have the money then go for it! I don't mind developing if you are READY TO PAY! . . . .#justkidding

Fayimora:
Of course the are. . . Just that I cant really call it a module, thats why I used the word embedded. The amount of work to be done is ridiculous! Its like doing 3 separate modules.

Fayimora:
Oh cool,  Am a CS student but i've got Software Engineering embedded into my syllabus(Freaking 1 yr sub-course). . .Currently the most annoying module. . .

Fayimora:
I mean't the designer might not be necessary. Most analysts are designers, at lest the ones I have seen! Are you currently studying software engineering?

Fayimora:
For the first 3, you do need a system analyst and designer(might not be necessary).