₦airaland Forum

of course. You just have to have the necessary funds in each bank/account you want to bid with.

.

sanerugwei:
godash ,
Let me get something straight.
Lets say you bidded for 1million but, you had 900k in your account for example.
Is that what you mean by "less than the total upfront payment including fees"? Lets say its 364 @18%.

yes.

If you don't mind can you share the email address of their plaza office.

PM me.

Another question: If my previous bid is due to elapse on say 20th October , which is the next bid date. Can I put in a bid on that same day even though they are yet to repay the money back into my account? Since that is the due date they are expected to pay me back.

I can't speak definitively to this as I haven't gone through the entire cycle yet. But... since the TB issue date is actually Thursdays after auction Wednesday, then 91-, 182-, 364-days after the issue date will also fall on Thursdays. So upon maturity, the facevalue will land in your account earliest 1 day after another Wednesday auction date. Makes sense?

As an example, take the "maturity on" dates shown at this post (https://www.nairaland.com/878880/treasury-bills-nigeria/223#50159725). They're all Thursdays.

1Segzy:
Oh. You mean you can even do it without showing up at the bank. There suppose to be a uniform standard across all the branches of the bank. Maybe the bank staff dont know what they are doing. Thanks for the info.

Must I use the branch where my account is domiciled? In your own case, is ur account domiciled at plaza branch? Can i use another branch if these people keep messing up?

Well I'm based outside Nigeria so i have to work through emails with my Plaza account officer/team since my account is domiciled at that branch.

Since all you're doing is passing instructions to the Treasury Department for the TB purchase, I'll expect that you can do that through any of their branches. My suggestion though is, if you find yourself near Plaza branch (or any of the branches), request to speak with someone in the relationship management team about TB purchase. Those guys some times have more information that the customer service staffs.

feelamong:
Most bankers only alert HNIs/ Investment coys/ asset mangt firms or people that they feel may be interested becos of their past investment records with them..
I have a friend in Ecobank treasury that sends to me just for information sake

... and ofcourse also because you're a High Net-worth Individual

1Segzy:
I was at GTB to place a bid for the next auction. I was told by the bank staff that I cannot choose the rate myself. They said that I have to go with the 'CBN adviced rate'.
Anyone in the house done TB with GTB before? Are you able to choose your own rate or what they are saying is true?

I did specify my bid rate with GTB for the Sept 21st auction. I simply called then emailed my instruction to their Plaza branch.

Also, I had more than the face value (but less than the total upfront payment including fees) in my account effectively re-investing the upfront interest at the same time. Won the bid and was debited the next day.

jumzite:
Hello house, am new in here but been reading this post ferventy, I finally decided to take the plunge and invest in Tbills with GTB for 91 days. I didnt specify the rate I wanted but i no just understand the math wey GTB do. Pls anyone who invested thru GTB for 91 days should enlighten me because I don't even know what percentage they bidded for, what their fee is and how dey do dere calculations. Thank You.
I also want to know which percentage is used for calculating the interest?, is it the CBN percentage or the percentage that the bank used to bid?

Use the excel-based calculator I created for NTB at the link below (on page 212) to back into what rate gets you the charges you've seen in your account. Note that GTB charges standard custodian fees, VAT on the custodian fee, and bank charge of N300

https://www.nairaland.com/878880/treasury-bills-nigeria/212#49454079

N100K is the government's stipulated minimum. But some banks require higher (e.g. Zenith required N1m).

clementy117:
I will be following you guys!!!
Please keep the up date coming, am near here, please what is the minimum one can buy TBills

Biggybountz:
Hi

No I didn't, any advice please? I am about to email my account officer about it though

Thanks

Neither have I though I've sent multiple emails.

Kindly let me know when you've gotten one.

Ugmama:
okay. my question is, how do i go about bidding in Zenith bank and if they allow one to bid 500k or must it be 1m and above?

Also how good is eco bank?

I don't have experience with either of those two banks. But then, the government's mandated minimum amount for primary market TB purchases is 100K naira with 1K increments thereafter. But i guess some banks have their own minimum.

From what i've read here, the purchase process usually involves you filing out a form, or providing a written instruction or sending an email instruction. Talk to your account officer but note that sometimes even the account officers dont have the requisite knowledge of the TB process. There are folks on this thread that had to teach their account officers about TBs.

Note also that the fees are different across firms.

Biggybountz:
Champagne Popping!! First Time Bidder !!!

My Bid through GTB has been successful in this instance as I have seen so many debit alerts come in in the last couple of hours.

I advised the bank to go by their own rate as I have not dictated a rate for them. By my calculations from the amount debited off my account i have computed the rates as:

91days - 12.9%
182days - 16.4 %
365days - 17.4 %

All in all I am happy as I have gone through a lot of pain before these finally come through. At this point, here are my concerns below:

1) What is the proof or evidence that I hold TBs? and they were taken through GTB? as I have not been formally contacted by GTB yet. No documentation whatsoever.

2) How do i know the maturity dates? I have no documentation at all.

3) how do i go about selling them should the need arise?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here, every contribution has resulted in my successful bid today, I took the pain to read from page 1 and have not regretted doing so. I wish the property section was this informative.

Sorry about the font size. I have tried changing them to small fonts but cant get my way around doing this

Did you get any investment letter from GTB?

Femiobat:
If one have 2.3 millon in zenith bank and choose a face value of 2.5 millon will the account be debited if the bid is appprorirate with CBN. Since the after discounting the face value the amount to be debited will be less than the money in his /her account.

Can't tell about Zenith but I did just that with GTB.

warchild00:
45M Property Rent 3m-3.5 Yearly
45M On TBills 356 Tenure @ Min 17% = 7.65m

Please Advice

3m - 3.5m rent is a return on investment of about 7% per year.

TB at the last stop rate of 18.3% for 1 year would have given a return on investment (true yield) of over 21% if the entire 45m was invested upfront. That means 3 years worth of rent at the end of the 1-year tenor.

Remember also, the risk profile is different. For Treasury bill, it's considered risk-free. Like @Tunene66 said, property value and possible rent appreciates. But there can be gaps in the rent and it's not always guaranteed. However, there's tangible value in the pride of ownership especially if it's your first home.

An option is to have the best of both opportunities. While you are working on your building plan and maybe CofO (assuming you've bought land already), you can invest the money and get the ~20% returns per year.

Just my 2 kobo.

Ugmama:
when is the next bidding, what rate are you going for and your bank?

pinkcotton:
I will please like to know the date for the next bid.

Next bid is Oct 5.

Take a look at the auction calendar for the rest of this year at this post

Welcome @Ugmama

Lots of loyal and noble Nigerians have provided wonderful guidance here from page 0. Spend some time reading the pages (even if just a few tens) and you'll be glad you did.

Then ask whatever other questions you will still here. Folks are willing to answer.

godash:
Yeah. I just got one too. Did you get one debit or several?

I thought with GTB, the debits will be separated ie. the discount value, the custodian fee and the flat commission will each hit the account separately.

Anyone knows when the formal investment letter is emailed?

FYI... The custodian fees and flat bank charge debit came through 3 hours after the discounted value debit.

leexey:
Alert rolling in from GTB.

Yeah. I just got one too. Did you get one debit or several?

I thought with GTB, the debits will be separated ie. the discount value, the custodian fee and the flat commission will each hit the account separately.

Ayone knows when the formal investment letter is emailed?

feelamong:
Sorry i did not reply this earlier...currently on vacation.

I loked at the secondary markets and noticed that rates have been coming down since last thursday....

It doesnt seem like CBN is interested in doing any more OMO auctions too....maybe due to all the shouts in the media in recent times for MPR rates to be reduced to free up more money for comsumption as we are in recession...

I will therefore advise our people to reduce their rates in this Auction....for me i will go with

91 days- 13.75%

182 days- 17%

364 days - 18%


Happy Investing

Thanks a lot bro.

Changed my request from 18.5% to 18% based on your guidance. Appreciate the effort you put in here. Thanks alot.

Now to wait and see if my change request went through successfully.

Anyone gotten update/debit from GTB yet?

megawax8:
The Stop Rates were:

91 days - 14.00%

182 days - 17.27%

364 days - 18.30%

Thanks.

I see that both the CBN and DMO sites aren't updated yet. Do you get this in an email or is there a site I can also get it from?

lilee2hot:
Please be informed that stanbic IBTC was successful at the auction for the 91 & 364 day bill today.

Their selling rates are stated below;

Maturity --- Tenor --- Discount rate

22nd December 2016 - 91 days - 13.89%

21st September 2017 - 364 days - 18.10%

Please note that the bid for the 182 day bid was unsuccessful because the bank put in bid rate of 17.40% while the CBN stop rate was 17.27%.

What was the CBN stop rates for 91 and 364 days?

engbash:
pls who has bought tbills via investment one before?
they say there only charge is 0.5%of the discount rate as determined at the auction.

is this cheaper than the charges by our banks?
they also said i can get a stop rate of 21%?
we are looking at a principal of 1M

thanks in advance

I used investment one for my last purchase.

I bidded and won 182 days at 17%. They removed 0.5% OUT OF that rate as charges (so the charge was face value * 0.5% * 182 days * ~366 days) bringing my effective bid rate to 16.5% with no other charges. From my calculation, that charge was over 3x the standard charge in other banks.

Omonigeriarere:
Hi feelamong, please how do I calculate my yield. GTB subscribes to TB without my instruction and I want to know whether to accept or reject the bidding although I have been unsuccessful in my previous bidding with them.

I was credited with 42,314.18 on 500k in 182 days. Therefore, what is the % of this bid and how can I know the calculation because the answer I got from google search is confusing?

look at my post on page 212 for a Treasury bill calculator you can use.

feelamong:
Sorry i did not reply this earlier...currently on vacation.

I loked at the secondary markets and noticed that rates have been coming down since last thursday....

It doesnt seem like CBN is interested in doing any more OMO auctions too....maybe due to all the shouts in the media in recent times for MPR rates to be reduced to free up more money for comsumption as we are in recession...

I will therefore advise our people to reduce their rates in this Auction....for me i will go with

91 days- 13.75%

182 days- 17%

364 days - 18%


Happy Investing

Thanks @feelamong.

Let me go change my request sharp sharp. I go come back come ask questions later.

Meanwhile, enjoy your vacation!

for tomorrow's auction, what do folks in the house think about 18.5% for 364 days?

seyi42k:
Thanks for the efforts and the excel education that also improved my excel skills.

you are welcome.

FIDELITY24:
@godash... talking abt nxt wk auction, is 18percent okay for 364days? plz guys una contribution dey important!

At this time, I don't have that expertise yet. I'm hoping someone with access to secondary market can give some guidance on the rates for the 21st auction ahead of the Tuesday's deadline to finalized purchase requests.

ukay2:
Your interest for 3M 91 day NTB at 13.98% is N104, 562.73k , so when you minus the interest from 3M ,you will get the N2,895,722.950. ....I.e 13.98/100 ×30000000×91/365 =N104,562,73k

The N750 Custodian fee came from gtb 0.717% fee on the N104, 562.73k ....I. e x/100 ×104,562.73 =750 will give you 0.717%.......note some banks like stanbic ibtc bank charges 0.125% as Custodian fee.

The N300 transfer fee of your money to CBN is constant for all banks....

Hope my explanation will help


Oga feelamong and other gurus can confirm if am correct.

Thanks.

GTB's charge for custodian fee is actually 0.1% of the face value over the tenor as a fraction of a year and not of the upfront discount as you calculated above.

All, Sharing an exchange i had with someone over email. These are just my answers. If anyone has better information, please post so we can all learn

I just did the calculation using 1.8m and realised reinvesting will generate additional 70k. I have the following questions
So how do it really work? Will i just tell the bank that the upfront interest should be reinvested and i should just fund my account with the 1.8m?

ask your bank if there allow reinvestment. I spoke with someone in GTB yesterday and he told me yes, as long as I know how to do the calculations and fund correctly. I've seen FBNs form and "reinvest upfront interest" is an option on it. Other than those 2, I don't know anyone else.

Does that mean i will get a certificate showing 2,194,017.00?

you won't get a certificate. You should get an investment advice/letter though that lays out the investment. I don't know the details/assumption you used in the calculator but if you did it right, what you will see on the advice/letter is the "face value, rate, tenor and maybe discounted value, tenor and dates".

Assuming i want to sell the treasury bill before maturity how will i go about it?

if you are getting from the government, you're buying from the primary market. There's a secondary market to sell (and buy) TB will varying non-standard tenors and lowered rates. I don't any experience with this though. But from what I hear, it's a tough for small investors to participate. If I were you, I'll pay to hold it through the full tenor and plan for that accordingly.

Assuming i hold it my position till maturity, at maturity will i be credited by the broker (the bank) or how is it done?

actually, this is my first time buying NTB. I'll have to wait for maturity to see how the repayment of face value.happens.

I bank with Sterling bank and they told me that they only charge N1 on every N1000 as account maintenance fee, No commission, no VAT, no bank charges, no custodian fee. But i don't know how good their service is. I am considering Stanbic IBTC because more people from the trend seem to have satisfied experience with them, do you know their charges?

I've only spoken with the above banks, investment-one and the old Kakawa Discount house. So I don't know Sterling or Stanbic's fees or processes. Economically, I would compare their fees with the others, see if they can bid for me and if it all make sense to me, I'll go with them. I'll need to know if that 1naira is on every 1000naira of the face value, of the interest, or of the discount value paid upfront. I also don't know if it's that fee will be posted for the tenor or tenor won't factor in at all. Those all the things I'll want to know to make an economic decision.

Which bank do you recommend and what are their total charges?
I plan partaking in the upcoming auction on Wednesday.

again, can't make a recommendation on any bank yet until I go through the entire process.

Good luck to you as you bid next Wednesday. Happy investing!

Thanks.

I've learned a lot on this thread and continue to. Thanks a lot to all the contributors here and to @feelamong for taking the initiative to start the thread.

I made my first Nigerian Treasury Bills (NTB) investment at the last auction after several years of fixed depositing. In trying to understand how the numbers tie together, I created a calculator for NTB investments and shared snapshots of it a few times on the thread.

Seeing the interest the snapshot generated from PMs I got, I cleaned it up and I'm now sharing it here for the entire community to benefit from. See the attached Excel file below.

To use it, just change the blue font cells to your particular investment situation.

Let me know your thoughts on it. However, I take no liabilities for your use of this calculator. So, use at your own risk. Also, like it, feel free to share it, and spread the love (of God)!

Happy investing everyone!

CuteTj:
I will be running to another bank when the next bid scheduled for 29/0916 opens.

The next auction will be next week Sept 21st.