₦airaland Forum

TayserMahiri:
Suddenly the thread springs back to life and begins to look interesting. Welcome nabhani

TZ in this b!tch, I went through a few of the posts. Kenyans are talking reckless about us, man...thats not right are we not family?

Muafrika2:


Get ready for PMs

Haha! i have to preface women only tho! my 9ja brothers if you find yourself in TZ you are on your own i cant do nothing for you. It's not right to see my 9ja sisters all by themselves in Tanzania, I just want to be a companion, you see...

NairobiWalker:
I already told her that but she's more fixated on proving Swahilis are Arabs. Nice explanation though. Hope she'll get that.

It's hard to define Swahili people sometimes even Swahilis themselves don't know what they want to be. They started of as Africans (Bantus whatever) but after all this heavy cultural and ethnic mixing which lets be clear happened mostly in the last 300 years or so, they have become 1/2 Africa 1/2 Indian Ocean.

obaaderemi:
Yes, we know who really rep the swahili thing in East Africa.Are swahili Tanzanians many and influential these days.

Yeah Tanzanian-Swahilis still have a presence and I guess they are still influentual.

Muafrika2:
Eh ndugu,

Wapokomo sio waswahili. Waswahili Ni wabajuni, waunguja, wabajuni, etc Nadhani Ni ladhifu tano kwa jumla.

In Kenya, the Arabs of the coast are classified as such, Arabs. Its one or our recognized tribes.

Its good you are here. Nigerians on this thread are totally in love with TZs

Nowenuse,
Fanficgirl

Like i said it's not as black and white as some make it out to be. For example, you can have Coastarian with both Native Swahili and Arab ancestry, is that person Arab or Swahili? it will solely depend on how they identify.

There are Arab-Arabs and there are Swahili-Arabs the latter speak Swahili as their mother tongue & practice Swahili culture, those are swahilis by way of culture and language but Arabs by way of ancestry.


Nigerians that ride with Tanzanians, when you are in TZ let me know, I GOT YOU!

freshest4live:
Yeah, it's good though, the Kenyans seem to be more passionate about Swahili than other east africans here.Why do you think this is the case and how popular is Swahili in Tanzania?

Hahaha KENYANS KNOW who really rep this Swahili ting in East Africa but I meant the Kenyan Swahilis (Ethnic Group) have more a sense of identity than Tanzanian Swahili people.

genieluv:
Here's one buh there's also another piece i seem to have forgotten where i read it from.

****I would have had second thoughts of possible bias on the writer's part ihad this piece been written by an east african buh considering it written apparently by a non-african who would most likely not have any interest in a bias as regards the situation, I find the piece highly plausible.

You have to look at Swahili people like Dominicans, a group of people who are a mixture of Africans, Natives & Europeans. Some Dominicans identify with their African roots whilst others identify more with their European or native roots but at the end of the day they're all Dominicans.
So, let's take Mombasa for example, you have the Twelve Tribes (Native Swahilis), Swahilized Africans & Swahilized Arabs. Naturally the Arab Swahili will identify more with Arabia then a Swahili Pokomo-Kenyan but they're both Swahili connected by their mother tongue language, culture and beliefs.

That was the simple lazy breakdown but the Swahili coast is a little more intricate than that.

I'm a Swahili from Tanzania and what I have noticed is the Kenyan Swahilis have a more well defined Swahili identity than the Tanzanian ones, I think they might be more Arabized as well but I'm rambling

gallivant:
Zanzibar's Shortest Reigning Monarch

Sayyid Khalid Bin Barghash ruled for 2 days (25 August 1896 - 27 August 1896)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Bundesarchiv_Bild_105-DOA0909%2C_Deutsch-Ostafrika%2C_Sultan.jpg

Interesting thing about this Middle Eastern fella is that his mother was a European slave and his father the son of a Ethiopian slave. His grandfather seemed to have a peculiar appetite for European & Ethiopian concubines.

Do you know there is Swahili town called Pate that claimed they once ruled the whole entire benadir coast but without the proper evidence that would just be hogwash, right?

ArtanK:
Not knowing much about the Swahilis =/= I don't know the history of the Somali coast. Instead of discarding everything I said, take your time and read through the post.

I said:

[img]In the book The return of Cosmopolitan Capital:Globalization, the State and War, it mentions that Merca and Barawa were not only transit routes for the Swahili traders who were restricted by the Portuguese and the Omanis but also safe havens for them. They came to the towns through trade and settled there but they are not the original people of the town. The Tunni are small compared to other clans in the Shabelle region yet they founded the twin towns of Barawa and Gondershe. [/img]

The Zanzibari influx to the town came when the Sultan of Zanzibar acquired partial control of the town from the Sultan of the Geledi Sultanate.

What is your point here? Are you saying that the Swahilis established Barawa?

I'm not disregarding anything you say, brother. To be honest, whether Barawa is a Swahili town or not is not really that important to me, I just want to see you prove Somalis built the city of Barawa, it's all banter my broda.

We can't deny there is Swahili group in Barawa called Barawanis, fair? all I want to know is where did they come from and why did they go there? like I said they can't be Zanzibaris because their dialect is older. I want actual evidence, just saying Swahili traders went there doesn't really say much.

ArtanK:
I don't know much about the Swahilis

And therein lies the problem

Just answer this question (with evidence), where did the Swahili of Barawa come from and why did they go to Barawa? and because you admittedly stated you don't know much about Swahili history, I'll let you know they definitely didn't come from Zanzibar because the Barawani dialect is clearly older than the Zanzibari Swahili dialect.

ArtanK:
The settlement was established by the Tunni Somalis, they came there first and the city was developed further by the ruling House of Garen of the Ajuuraan royalty. The only thing I can attribute to the Barawani community is that they expanded the city, they came as Merchants in Merca and Barawa and the two towns saw another influx of Swahilis when the Zanzibaris landed.
Tunnis themselves don't speak Somali, they speak their own language but it is not very far from the Somali language.

The medieval town of Gondershe looked quite similar to Barawa, it had similar architecture with all white buildings and it wasn't a Barawani or Swahili settlement.

You can read about the Ottoman-Ajuuraan fleet taking on the Portuguese in East Africa here: Portuguese rule and Spanish crown in South Africa.

I think you are confusing immigrants from Arabia with Swahili "immigrants" because I know for a FACT you can't prove which Swahili clan migrated to Barawa.

You say Barawanis expanded the city, how so? what was there already before their arrival?

What other similar settlements did the Tunnis establish?

The portuguese in 1503 mentions that Barawa was governed by a corporation of twelve clans, were they Somali clans?

Barawa town was divided into several wards, each ward representing prominent families/clans. What is the significance of that in Somali or Tunni culture?

Why do the Barawanis refer to themselves as "The people of the town" or "Urban city dwellers"?

As for the Ajuuran liberators, it was very common for Swahili towns to seek military assistance from neighbouring tribes. If you actually read upon Swahili history you will see that they sought help from Bantus, Cushites, Arabs, & Europeans.

ArtanK:
Barawa

It was also found by a Somali clan, the Tunni clan. This city was sacked by the Portuguese and was quickly liberated by the Ajuuraan forces. If the Sultan of Zanzibar was indeed ruling Barawa, how come he didn't prevent the Portuguese from sacking it and why didn't he assist the Ajuuraan in reclaiming the city?
The city's non-ethnic Somalis only came to the city in the last 200 years or so when the Gobroon sultanate allowed the Zanzibaris to live there.

The Zanzibaris/Swahilis have never ruled over Somalis, they were too weak to fight their own battles hence why the Ajuuraan naval forces, while assisting the Omanis, helped liberate their towns from the Portuguese.

You are being very disingenuous if you are claiming that the Tunni Somalis built the coral town of Barawa. In the Swahili dialect of Barawa, Barawanis call themselves Wamwiini and they speak Chimiini, in other words they consider themselves to be the "People of the town" and they speak the "language of the town" which is Swahili.

What you need to understand is Swahili people don't occupy every inch of the Kenyan coast, they share it with other tribes, just like in southern Somalia. So, the Tunni Somalis may be from Barawa but the medieval coral town of Barawa is a Swahili settlement, hence why they speak Swahili.

An this Ajuraan empire liberating everyone, please give me primary sources so i can read about this history of East Africa.

This is a Somali (I think) on the Swahili Coast, Lamu to be exact. Nobody loves putting henna on their beard more than a Somali...

https://www.lamupaintersfestival.org/painters-festival-2013/about/bilder/festival2013-05.jpg

ArtanK:
The Swahilis I saw in Kenya never wore it so I presumed that only Somalis wear it.

What? you must of been in Nairobi or somewhere else on the mainland. What is a Swahili man without his embroidered cap?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qAT60EyrBOw/UugLBmit4PI/AAAAAAAALb0/_uUnGmimxXw/w737-h553-no/CIMG0616.JPG

An old pic
https://zanzibarhistory.org/assets/images/SJB2%2011.jpg

Man, people are going in on the Swahilians on here, what have they done?

Rafikizolo:
I'm going to start off by saying that I've seen dozens and dozens of strong Arab men with regular jaws and strong jaws. I don't think what you're saying makes any sense.

Moving on, some Swahili take pride in the non-African side of their heritage because their racist and believe that being black is something to be ashamed of or looked down upon on a certain level. This is of course only when it suits them. In the U.S. the flip-flopping of their identities is really annoying. Like many Somalis and Ethiopians in the states they have a tendency to align with black people when famous black people are being praised for being the best in a certain field like Michael Jackson or Serena Williams or Idris Elba or Lupita Nyongo or Nelson Mandela. They will also jump on the "black people are the best dancers, musicians and athletes (even though the Somali is almost always the skinniest person in the room out of any ethnicity and could not pass for any type of athlete other than a distance runner, but even then Kenyans are at the top of that sport)" bandwagon whenever it suits them. However, these same people tend to change their tones when black culture is being criticized or looked down upon. Suddenly at that moment they aren't black anymore, they're "Somali or Habesha or Swahili".

Cut it out!!!!!

ArtanK:
I'm not trying to hijack the thread but are you sure he's not Somali? because that hat is as Somali as it gets. My father and all of my uncles wear it.

https://somaliareport.com/images_medium/DSC_0023.JPG

https://40.media.tumblr.com/2ee2c9827082f1c6c3ec467bc5d7a5cf/tumblr_mf2coku7321qill6po1_r2_500.jpg

Those are Swahili caps. I've seen it worn i many places

Oman kids
https://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000JsKJqt65oqk/s/900/900/Oman-79-902-06-Omani-Schoolboys-Wadi-Bani-Kharus.jpg

Uganda muslims
[img]http://www.newvision.co.ug/newvision_cms/newsimages/image/Brenda/nakibingecongregation.jpg[/img]

Al Mukalla, Yemen
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8302/7750764278_496e64ee98_c.jpg

KidStranglehold: Good post. I remember you made this good post on my African phenotype thread.

Much respected famo

HAHAHA I LOVE THIS!. SOME QUALITY STUFF HERE!!

Here is lil' sumthin' for ya @KidStranglehold

The time for sailing commences in October, and the trade is open during the whole of the fair season. The greatest number of boats arrive from Zanzibar in the latter end of May ; three or four Arab boats, of those which visit Mandavie annually, are taken up for the African trade, but the greater part is carried on in Cutch boats and by Cutch crews. Among the merchants of Mandavie, the arrival of their "Suwallee" boats creates great excitement. An owner will liberally reward the messenger who brings the first intelligence of the arrival of his vessel : for this purpose the western bastion of the city wall is generally crowded, particularly about sun-set, with persons provided with telescopes...

The places on the coast visited by boats engaged in this trade are Burburra, Mugdasir (Mugdasho), Murka, Barawur, Lamoon, Bom- basir (Mombaze), and Zanzibar ; sometimes, but rarely, Mosambique. The three first ports are situated on that part of the coast generally denominated by the natives " Buradur," and the others on that called Suwallee. It is under the latter denomination that the whole of this trade is known in Cutch, and the fleet of boats which annually makes its appearance in May (as stated above) are called "Suwallee" boats. All the trade of the " Buradur" coast is carried on by Somaulis, who find their markets in the interior.

The Transactions of the Bombay Geographical Society, Volume 1 - 1844

PAGAN 9JA:
about the M'alayah , contrary to what online articles say, I dont think its originally African. I have some reasons.
And no. When it comes to the M álayah, the dancers are mostly Bidoun people (Gulf Arabs who dont have passport). the singers are also mostly Bidoun, though some are Swahilli at times.

Liwa is 100% Swahilli.

I have my reasons as well lol but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

PAGAN 9JA:
yeah Ive seen them. they also do the Liwa dance. They are also called Zanj.

The Liwa dance is called Mduara in East Africa. I believe the people who dance liwa and Malayah descend or have had contact with earlier Swahili folks (during the Omani dynasty) and are not the ones who returned more recently. Although those Zanzibari-Omanis do the Liwa/Mduara dance it’s more similar to the East African version.

KidStranglehold: Those Swahili people of the coast even identify as Arab and they look like your stereotypical Africans, but it's because their culture is Arab dominate.

The Swahili people do not necessarily identify themselves as Arabs, however those with Arab ancestry may make mention it. Actually it's more common for neighbouring communities to call them “Waarabu” based on their supposed solidarity with other Arabs (on the coast), shared culture and Islamic heritage.

What the urban Swahili originally identified themselves as was “Waungwana”, which could translate to “the civilized ones”. To be accepted as one amongst them you had to possess a stone house, covet materialism, knowledgeable in local culture, fluent in the Swahili language and other miscellaneous things. Being an Arab or have Arab ancestry is not on the list of requirements for upward social mobility.

Before the Busaidi rule in Zanzibar, the newly arrived immigrants from Arabia were not permitted to live within core town settlements, instead had to live on the outskirts until their social status changed. The only Arabs that were exempt from this were those of Sharif ancestry.

Yet still, In the Swahili lands you can say the Swahili became Arabized and the Arabs Swahilized. So identities may overlap sometimes.

Here are some “Arabs” in Oman that returned after the Zanzibar revolution. They are called “Swahilis” by their fellow Omanis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PuzH45g6tM