₦airaland Forum

Logic007:
Religion hindered them..that is why they are less religious now

God! If only people can understand what you mean.

Thing is, religion did not hinder them, their religious beliefs did. Pity is many think belief and religion are the same thing when the truth is, an understanding of religion actually opens peoples eyes, while belief in religion blinds and enslaves.

Image123:
i am absolutely certain you are not referring to Christainity.

I am.

Christianity held back science. Held back women. Held back gay rights.

Women and gays are human beings that still contribute to the economy.

Did Christianity not persecute scientists back in the early ages?

Kobojunkie:
Well, get to it then...refuting my claim.

I just refuted it because there is no evidence. There is no prove

edoairways:
I just refuted it because there is no evidence. There is no prove

You refuse to consider what is right before your eyes therefore there is no evidence and so nothing to refute? You must be a genius in your own right!

Logic007:
Science, education, technology, philosophy and economics.


Many things that religion is at odds with

Maybe other religions though. Christianity isn't applicable to the above. Virtually all top scientist are Christians.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never installed any of His followers over others. He commanded against that. He also never commanded your churches as you have them today. So this man, a reverend, is likely a part of the problem he talks about.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never installed any of His followers over others. He commanded against that. He also never commanded your churches as you have them today. So this man, a reverend, is likely a part of the problem he talks about.

If he didn't install some people over others then why did he say some people should feed his sheep's? Maybe you will say Jesus was a Fulani herdsman.

Standing5:
Maybe other religions though. Christianity isn't applicable to the above. Virtually all top scientist are Christians.

So there are no Buddhist scientists around making waves?

Logic007:
I am.
Christianity held back science. Held back women. Held back gay rights.
Women and gays are human beings that still contribute to the economy.
Did Christianity not persecute scientists back in the early ages?

How did religion hold back science?

Kobojunkie:
You refuse to consider what is right before your eyes therefore there is no evidence and so nothing to refute? You must be a genius in your own right!

I work with fact in this case. If it weren't so, anyone would give false claims. For example "the way to a man's heart is food". This claim has refutted by several scholars

edoairways:
I work with fact in this case. If it weren't so, anyone would give false claims. For example "the way to a man's heart is food". This claim has refutted by several scholars

What "fact" did you work with in this case?

Kobojunkie:
What "fact" did you work with in this case?

Probably when you get stereotype you would understand better

Logic007:
What percentage of Europeans are christian or muslim?

Europe remains the least religious continent and the most developed continent.

But during the period that it rose to world dominance it was highly religious. Religion only really started to wane quickly post WWI and WWII as Europe declined and the intellectual atheism of a plurality of the intellectual upper class sunk down in form of the ideology we now call humanism.

Logic007:
They dumped it for Africans, Latinos and Asians

Latinos are Basic part of the West and Asia is rapidly rising to eclipse the West

Logic007:
Religion hindered them..that is why they are less religious now

Asia was probably less religious in the past (or at least just as) given the nature of Dharmic religions of confucianism and if religion hindered the West, then why did the arguably more fanatically religious Western Christians rise to dominion and the even more fanatically religious sub-section of that (USA) rise to the world stage.

Atheism is the ideology of a civilization at the end of its rise, whether Qin China or Late Antiquity Greece. Only this time around it is more wide spread than just among the elites

edoairways:
Probably when you get stereotype you would understand better

Stereotyped? I am not certain what that has to do with this.
What fact have you considered in this case?

Kobojunkie:
Stereotyped? I am not certain what that has to do with this.
What fact have you considered in this case?

Your earlier statement result to stereotype. You don't understand it because you don't feel the heat

Logic007:
I am.

Christianity held back science. Held back women. Held back gay rights.

Women and gays are human beings that still contribute to the economy.

Did Christianity not persecute scientists back in the early ages?

No it didn't, if anything Christianity allowed science to progress faster. Basically from the period of Rome's ascendence onwards, Greece science and philosophy had ground to a halt, almost everything from then on was scale up of what already existed. Like can you even name one great philosopher of natural philosophy of the period of Rome's rise?

And Christianity wasn't a Global phenomena, so why, oh why is that if christianity held back science it wasn't out paced by non-christian and non-institutional religion areas like China or India (among many others).

It didn't hold back women's rights, like do you want to compare women's rights in Rome, Athens influneced Greece or the Islamic world to Europe? Like the Christian world have several Women Emperors and Kings, whether Isabella of Spain, Irene of the Eastern Roman Empire or Æthelflad of Mercia. Can you mention any equivalent from the Classical or Ancient Era from the same regions that Christianity became ascendant in?

Fine Christians did and still do hold back Gay rights, but the acceptance of Gays and other LGBT+ is oft exaggerated and they were either not tolerated or integrated into society in ways that would be considered "homophobic" today.

Human beings exist for more than just being fuel to the economy, thank you.

I mean, yes but not really for being scientists. Heretics came from all walks of life and while I am not defending the practice, again, Heretics came from all works of life. You could write that "Christians persecuted Farmers in the middle ages" and you would be right.

Like Copernicus the guy that popularized heliocentrism worked for the church, Galileo was something of a braggard that also challenged the priesthood on theologically touchy subjects.

And hey maybe near enlightenment era Christian advancements isn't what you were referring to, then what of during the dark ages, when under the Orthodox Christian Eastern Roman Empire, John the Grammarian, a church man who discovered works on impetus, a break through in physics that would later become a basis for Galileo's works. Or the philosophy of Thomas Aquinas grounding the basic assumption of modern science that the world is fundamentally rational.

And if scientific advancement isn't enough for you, what about the various technological advancements like the wheel and axel, horse shoes, heavy plows, water wheels, arch and glass supported cartedrals, etc.

And if European advancement isn't enough for you, what about the works of Zara Yakob, a Christian philosopher whose Christian philosophy is considered the beginning of Sub-Saharan African philosophy?.

So, no Christianity didn't cause a dint in the rate of scientific and technological progress.

edoairways:
Your earlier statement result to stereotype. You don't understand it because you don't feel the heat

My statement was based on the reality of the world we live in today and no Stereotype.

Feeling the "heat" does not negate the fact that indeed it is a problem that needs resolving.

Kobojunkie:
My statement was based on the reality of the world we live in today and no Stereotype.

Feeling the "heat" does not negate the fact that indeed it is a problem that needs resolving.

Reality of the world has empirical evidence not perception. You bring a researched article to buttress your point not assumption of things

edoairways:
Reality of the world has empirical evidence not perception. You bring a researched article to buttress your point not assumption of things

I never said anything about evidence being based on perception. There is tons of data out there today showing that indeed Religion poses a real problem to society.

Kobojunkie:
I never said anything about evidence being based on perception. There is tons of data out there today showing that indeed Religion poses a real problem to society.

There is none at the moment.

edoairways:
There is none at the moment.

There is lots of evidence that religion remains a major issue in Nigeria today. Your choice to turn a blind eye to it does not make the evidence non-existent.

Consider the Boko Haram problem in Nigeria. Isn't related to religion?
And is the fact that the country's laws pander in some ways to religious groups not contribute to their effective handling of the problem religious groups such as this pose in the country?

Kobojunkie:
There is lots of evidence that religion remains a major issue in Nigeria today. Your choice to turn a blind eye to it does not make the evidence non-existent.

Consider the Boko Haram problem in Nigeria. Isn't related to religion?
And is the fact that the country's laws pander in some ways to religious groups not contribute to their effective handling of the problem religious groups such as this pose in the country?

Then prove it with empirical studies. Don't let the media deceive you because I know very well

Sibrah:
If he didn't install some people over others then why did he say some people should feed his sheep's? Maybe you will say Jesus was a Fulani herdsman.

When Jesus Christ told Peter in John 21 to Feed His Sheep...Take care of His sheep... He in fact gave Peter the command that is the works of righteousness which Jesus Christ outlined in Matthew 25 vs 31-46, is the only way to get into Heaven.. the Key to the Kingdom of God..

FEED my Sheep
* When they are hungry, give them real food to eat
* When they are thirsty, give them real drink
TAKE CARE of my sheep
* When they are naked, clothe them
* When they are homeless, welcome them into your home
* When they are sick, care for them
* When they are in prison, Visit them.

When you are asked to do works of righteousness, do you take that to mean that the same Jesus Christ who warned His followers against occupying positions of power/leadership over others, changed His mind?

Matthew 20 vs 24-28 (ESV)
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24. The other ten followers heard this and were angry with the two brothers.
25. So Jesus called the followers together. He said, “You know that the rulers of the non-Jewish people love to show their power over the people. And their important leaders love to use all their authority over the people.
26. But it should not be that way with you. Whoever wants to be your leader must be your servant.
27. Whoever wants to be first must serve the rest of you like a slave.
28. Do as I did: The Son of Man did not come for people to serve him. He came to serve others and to give his life to save many people.”

A clue as to what Jesus Christ meant by what He told Peter comes from the fact that Jesus gave that command to Him just after feeding his men breakfast.

Sibrah:
If he didn't install some people over others then why did he say some people should feed his sheep's? Maybe you will say Jesus was a Fulani herdsman.

Jesus didn't give the sort of structure we have now, neither did his apostles both both did give increasingly complicated structures.

Jesus' structure was far more unofficial but among his hundred or so disciples, the 12 apostles definately did stand out and above as Jesus' "right hand men" and Peter the head.

The the Apostles later put up more positions like deacons but the Bishops and the more complex system will only come up later and the church meetings of that everyone present as an active participant. A model that the Anarchist Church model is trying to revive.

edoairways:
Then prove it with empirical studies. Don't let the media deceive you because I know very well

Don't drag the "media" into this.

I gave you an instance to consider...

Kobojunkie:
There is lots of evidence that religion remains a major issue in Nigeria today. Your choice to turn a blind eye to it does not make the evidence non-existent.

Consider the Boko Haram problem in Nigeria. Isn't related to religion?
And is the fact that the country's laws pander in some ways to religious groups not contribute to their effective handling of the problem religious groups such as this pose in the country?

Study that and tell me there is no evidence to the claim that religion is indeed a problem in Nigeria.

Kobojunkie:
Don't drag the "media" into this.

I gave you an instance to consider... Study that and tell me there is no evidence to the claim that religion is indeed a problem in Nigeria.

That is the lies the media feed you with. In an empirical research, we go for first hand information or already established facts which are authentic. The media we have except for few are brown envelope outlet. They so much rely on gossip and hearsay

edoairways:
That is the lies the media feed you with. In an empirical research, we go for first hand information or already established facts which are authentic. The media we have except for few are brown envelope outlet. They so much rely on gossip and hearsay

What lie did the media feed me?
Why are you running about like a hamster on its wheels... instead of directly responding to the case I said to study?

Kobojunkie:
There is lots of evidence that religion remains a major issue in Nigeria today. Your choice to turn a blind eye to it does not make the evidence non-existent.

Consider the Boko Haram problem in Nigeria. Isn't related to religion?
And is the fact that the country's laws pander in some ways to religious groups not contribute to their effective handling of the problem religious groups such as this pose in the country?

Kobojunkie:
What lie did the media feed me?
Why are you running about like a hamster on its wheels... instead of directly responding to the case I said to study?

Am not running however that fact is too weak. It is biased

edoairways:
Am not running however that fact is too weak. It is biased

I brought forth a case to be studied, including questions to be considered(no facts) yet you are quick to conclude that facts are too weak, making me worry whether you know what a fact is in this case?

Kobojunkie:
I brought forth a case to be studied, including questions to be considered(no facts) yet you are quick to conclude that facts are too weak, making me worry whether you know what a fact is in this case?

I didn't conclude however I critic the source of your information. That source is too weak

edoairways:
I didn't conclude however I critic the source of your information. That source is too weak

But you don't even know my source yet...I never mentioned my source to you in any of my posts so far.