₦airaland Forum

Subsidybad21:
Simple. The value of the naira has fallen since Jonah's time when crude cost 100 dollars per barrel so not enough dollars to raise the value of the naira due to fall in crude prices since 2014( we had it as low as 30 dollars in 2016)

Also the revenue available now to subside fuel is less rhan it was under Jonah's time again due to low oil prices. We are making at least 40 dollars less per barrel of crude compared to 2012. Laat year it was as high as 80 dollars less per barrel.In 2016 it was 100 dollars less per barrel.

And even then in 2012 Jona wanted to remove subsidy completely because even at that high oil price it was no longer sustainable. Nigerians said no then.

I knew you'll be here. So Godarz is gone

never underestimate the power of foolish people in a large crowd.
Nigeria boosts of an outrageous number of foolish people who don't even know their rights as citizens. Give them Bubu again and again and watch them cast their votes over again and again.
back to the topic. the masses ain't seen nothing yet. as long as the masses are divided in Nigeria, the rich will continue to rule over them.

Realguyman1:
Oga the ones they removed from #87 to #145 and from 145# to 168# we are buying nkor? Oga we are probably the number one oil producer in Africa and should not be compare to other poorer non oil producing Africa countries in terms of oil fuel price. This is what we produce and we are supposed to have it cheap here. U can't be comparing us with Niger republic or Lesotho interns of fuel price because we produce oil at large here in our country and they don't..... Oga even if Buhari increase the fuel price to #1000 per liter, there will be nothing to show for after His tenure. And even in 100yrs to come there will no good effect to show for that sometime ago Buhari remove subsidy to #1000, because all the money will still be looted.

Well, we don't earn enough from oil to keep on paying subsidies, especially as oil prices have not been stable since 2014...and we need oil above $133 right now to be able to run a balanced budget.

Besides if we wanted to have enough money to subsidise fuel, we would have to declare 200 million Nigerians non-citizens...

Is it your father's money? Grand looter of National treasury. Baba nbarawo kawaii.

Grandmeister:
That moniker is a paid hack! Check his post history. He stylishly defends the government while alienating the subsidy system, as if the system would exist absent the hands of the government. Again I say to you, that moniker is a paid hack.

I am actually a pro-subsidy removal hack, not a government hack.

It may sound like I am defending the government, but the truth is

1.I am not

2.Government has been foolish to waste billions on subsidy payments since 2015, when removing it could have benefited our neconomy trmemndously

3.I can't vote for Buhari, because to me he is yesterday's man, and I never bought his anti-corruption fight stuff.

4.My point about Nigeria's economy is this...we are too too dependent on oil, and on other resources. It is high time we used those resources to become an industrial power. Understand that, and you will see why I think both GEJ and Buahri,and indeed all of our past leaders are bad leaders.

Good morning. I do not support APC or back APC nor have I voted for them. I don';t even work for the government as a civil servant.

Subsidybad21:
They always have been paying a subsidy. If not, if Buhari had removed subsidy completely and truthfully in 2015 , fuel would have cost N200 and above by 2016. If not higher

Also so long as government sets the price of fuel there is a subsidy.

Subsidy has always been difficult for governments past and present to remove. So what has always been done is a partial removal of subsidy .

The truth is it ia high time subsidy went. It has always cost us trillions of naira. Plus we need the money saved

Why would fuel cost higher in 2016 compared to 2015 when the crude price actually dropped

Subsidybad21:
I am actually a pro-subsidy removal hack, not a government hack.

It may sound like I am defending the government, but the truth is

1.I am not

2.Government has been foolish to waste billions on subsidy payments since 2015, when removing it could have benefited our neconomy trmemndously

3.I can't vote for Buhari, because to me he is yesterday's man, and I never bought his anti-corruption fight stuff.

4.My point about Nigeria's economy is this...we are too too dependent on oil, and on other resources. It is high time we used those resources to become an industrial power. Understand that, and you will see why I think both GEJ and Buahri,and indeed all of our past leaders are bad leaders.

Good morning. I do not support APC or back APC nor have I voted for them. I don';t even work for the government as a civil servant.

Yeah Yeah.
But you're always excusing government's incompetence with lack of funds.
One wonders why you appeared on the scene at the entrance of this zombie government.

Let them be bold enough to come up with the new price. Nigerians are expecting the worst from them.

NNPC says Petrol may sell not less than N230-250/L.

NNPC buys from Abroad

NNPC sells to Marketers (Major & Independent)

Nobody Confirms/ Checks/Corroborates or Verifies Claim(s)

No opposition
Anybody who protests is Declared /Arrested as Saboteuers, Terrorists, Accounts Frozen etc... eg Genuine ENDSARS, IPOB etc

N120b for Subsidy/month - NNPC

Can N600b be given to ASSU and we know we have to suffer for 5months fuel high price & ASSU wahala is laid to rest permanently?

At least we know what we are suffering for.

*OR*

*WHEN OIL RISES TO $80-100/BARREL, WE MAY BUY PETROL FOR N400-500/L*

*NOBODY CAN CHALLENGE THIS GOVT*

*ARE WE IN TROUBLE?*

Agbegbaorogboye:
Why would fuel cost higher in 2016 compared to 2015 when the crude price actually dropped

Because in 2016, crude dropped even lower...it was as low as $20 at one point....and we also were saving as much dollars as possible.

No dollars to buffer the naira, value of naira continue to fall, fuel prices looked 'higher'.

Buhari...una wan killos b4 u go!

Subsidybad21:
1.GEJ wanted to do the same thing. It was the right decision. But sadly millions of Nigerians did not see it that way. Nigerians tend not to see long term benefits, all we see is daily bread. And fuel subsidy removal threatens our daily bread.

They did not see the potential benefits of brand new refineries built by private investment, and new jobs and an eventually a fall in fuel prices and us exporting fuel. All they saw was N65 to N141.

Economics is personal. What affects you may not affect someone else. You can't expect someone on the last leader of the hierarchy of needs to see investments etc. It simply didn't exist in their vocabulary.
Besides, isn't it obvious your claim that subsidy removal will lead to investment is a capitalist lie?
Dangote is building his refinery in the midst of subsidy. Two were commissioned last year as well.
So you've provided no evidence whatsoever that subsidy removal leads to investments.

Subsidybad21:
Because in 2016, crude dropped even lower...it was as low as $20 at one point....and we also were saving as much dollars as possible.

No dollars to buffer the naira, value of naira continue to fall, fuel prices looked 'higher'.

Value of naira in official market where NNPC gets its dollars from was same as 2014, 198 to a dollar. Always get your facts right buddy.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Yeah Yeah.
But you're always excusing government's incompetence with lack of funds.
One wonders why you appeared on the scene at the entrance of this zombie government.

The reason why government lacks funds is

1.Subsidisng when we don't earn enough

2.Low tax to gdp ratio (we don't tax enough people in this country, and rates are low)

3.Reliance on oil and oil alone.

Since 2011, when I read two articles : Pass the books and hold the oil, and the nice article by Field Ruwe, my judging the government has been based on what it plans to do to diversify itself away from oil.

Also, a big problem I have with nairalanders is they expect a Ferrari at the price of a bicycle.One can't do that. We are an oil dependent economy. It is only by becoming a productive economy that we can earn the amount we need to buy a ferrari at ferrari price...not by selling raw materials whose prices we don't control.

Then stop importation and refine the crude in Nigeria so people can get it for cheaper amount and enjoy he benefits of being an oil producing state, anyway bio and solar are taking over gradually. .

Agbegbaorogboye:
Value of naira in official market where NNPC gets its dollars from was same as 2014, 198 to a dollar. Always get your facts right buddy.

And until 2017, NNPC was not the sole importer of fuel; everyone else imported fuel and charged the government for subsidisng it.

It was the unsustainablinty and rising cost that made government to make NNPC the sole importer of fuel by 2017...at the expense of new refienreis, and better growth, because APC does not want to face reality.

Subsidybad21:
Simple. The value of the naira has fallen since Jonah's time when crude cost 100 dollars per barrel so not enough dollars to raise the value of the naira due to fall in crude prices since 2014( we had it as low as 30 dollars in 2016)

Also the revenue available now to subside fuel is less rhan it was under Jonah's time again due to low oil prices. We are making at least 40 dollars less per barrel of crude compared to 2012. Laat year it was as high as 80 dollars less per barrel.In 2016 it was 100 dollars less per barrel.

And even then in 2012 Jona wanted to remove subsidy completely because even at that high oil price it was no longer sustainable. Nigerians said no then.

Buhari and Tinubu were at the forefront of the crusade against subsidy removal. They never played a decent opposition. Let's be guided.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Economics is personal. What affects you may not affect someone else. You can't expect someone on the last leader of the hierarchy of needs to see investments etc. It simply didn't exist in their vocabulary.
Besides, isn't it obvious your claim that subsidy removal will lead to investment is a capitalist lie?
Dangote is building his refinery in the midst of subsidy. Two were commissioned last year as well.
So you've provided no evidence whatsoever that subsidy removal leads to investments.

Dangote took a loan to build his refinery. That refinery will fail if subsidy remains when he goes into production...but that does not matter to the banks who gave him the loan...they just take over his other assets, and get their cash back.

Besides, we have 20 licencees who haven't built their refineries because subsidy means they may sell at a loss, plus they don't have Dangote's deep pockets to be able to obtain loans...and no one would loan them money

Plus subsidy has never gone...so stop pretending it has.

The massive subsidy scam!

The PPPRA initiated this with its pricing template which no one understands

The NNPC then compounds the issue with its daily consumption figures of 600m liters of PMs which isn’t backed by any data.

So subsidy payment in Nigerian economics = opaque corrupt pricing template on cost of importing PMS per liter multiplied by daily consumption of PMS backed by no data. They then tell us they are subsiding petrol at billion per month. This is why PPPRA even when they claim deregulation were still using a pricing template and why NNPC do not want to get data on actual PMS consumption.

I understand the looting strategy the subsidy is not up to that amount

mcquin:
Buhari and Tinubu were at the forefront of the crusade against subsidy removal. They never played a decent opposition. Let's be guided.

Yes, and like most Nigerians at the time, they did not understand how subsidies worked.

(Plus they hurt themselves indirectly. If subsidy had gone in 2012, by now, we would have been reaping the benefits, and assuming they were in power now...they would be claiming the praise for the initiative).

Politics is a dirty game. PDP was for subsidy removal in 2012, now they oppose it.

Can you mention some of those who said no?
I remembered your currently president was among them. Was he not the same person that said subsidy is a scam? Was it not the same reason of subsidy he keeps increasing the pump price?
Your username says a lot about the kind of person that you are. You simply create an account called Subsidybad21 and start attacking those who speak against this scam.
Why are you not calling out for accountability and employment? Why not protest against the insecurity in the country?
Why am I even wasting my time on a CROONER, who knows nothing but support evil?
LAST LAST, YOU GO JOIN SUFFER THE MATTER

Subsidybad21:
Simple. The value of the naira has fallen since Jonah's time when crude cost 100 dollars per barrel so not enough dollars to raise the value of the naira due to fall in crude prices since 2014( we had it as low as 30 dollars in 2016)

Also the revenue available now to subside fuel is less rhan it was under Jonah's time again due to low oil prices. We are making at least 40 dollars less per barrel of crude compared to 2012. Laat year it was as high as 80 dollars less per barrel.In 2016 it was 100 dollars less per barrel.

And even then in 2012 Jona wanted to remove subsidy completely because even at that high oil price it was no longer sustainable. Nigerians said no then.

Subsidybad21:
Dangote took a loan to build his refinery. That refinery will fail if subsidy remains when he goes into production...but that does not matter to the banks who gave him the loan...they just take over his other assets, and get their cash back.

Besides, we have 20 licencees who haven't built their refineries because subsidy means they may sell at a loss, plus they don't have Dangote's deep pockets to be able to obtain loans...and no one would loan them money

Plus subsidy has never gone...so stop pretending it has.

You just don't get it. You're holed up in your cocoon.
Dangote and others are building refineries. Two have been commissioned last year. All these in the midst of a subsidy regime. THIS PUTS PAY TO YOUR LIE THAT SUBSIDY IS THE REASON WHY REFINERIES ARE NOT BEING BUILT.
And again, dangote bought Kaduna refinery in 2007 when subsidy was still there.
Get your facts right!!

Foolish and wicked people 120 billion x 12 months x3 years of ur stay in office would have built a refinery but insensitive government will not buth rather choose to borrow money to build useless railways.

Subsidybad21:
And until 2017, NNPC was not the sole importer of fuel; everyone else imported fuel and charged the government for subsidisng it.

It was the unsustainablinty and rising cost that made government to make NNPC the sole importer of fuel by 2017...at the expense of new refienreis, and better growth, because APC does not want to face reality.

And does that negate the fact that exchange rate that you gave as your excuse for fuel price increase in 2016 is a big lie?
Seems you're just typing from a book. You're not even following what you're typing.
Your job performance is really poor.

Subsidybad21:
The reason why government lacks funds is

1.Subsidisng when we don't earn enough

2.Low tax to gdp ratio (we don't tax enough people in this country, and rates are low)

3.Reliance on oil and oil alone.

Since 2011, when I read two articles : Pass the books and hold the oil, and the nice article by Field Ruwe, my judging the government has been based on what it plans to do to diversify itself away from oil.

Also, a big problem I have with nairalanders is they expect a Ferrari at the price of a bicycle.One can't do that. We are an oil dependent economy. It is only by becoming a productive economy that we can earn the amount we need to buy a ferrari at ferrari price...not by selling raw materials whose prices we don't control.

Well, we were once a productive economy. Ask the politicians you support what happened.

Matrixoba:
Can you mention some of those who said no?

Most Nigerians were opposed back then. I had to hide my support for subsidy removal stylishly back then; poeple will accuse you of being a PDP supporter and oppressor back then.

I remembered your currently president was among them. Was he not the same person that said subsidy is a scam? Was it not the same reason of subsidy he keeps increasing the pump price?

Yeah,and now he is suffering the consequences of his love for cheap fuel. Had he supported subsidy removal, by now he would be reaping the benefits.

Your username says a lot about the kind of person that you are. You simply create an account called Subsidybad21 and start attacking those who speak against this scam.

Subsidy is a scam in many ways. We lost 4 trillion naira between 2010-15 sustaining the scam. Why not speak against it?

Why are you not calling out for accountability and employment? Why not protest against the insecurity in the country?

Well, removing subsidy means more investment in private refineries, which means more jobs directly and indirectly which means more employment, which means less insecurity, and which also indirectly means more tax income , part of which can be funneled into more funds for the police....to do its job better (Police funding was a big issue in the endsars protest which i backed)
Why am I even wasting my time on a CROONER, who knows nothing but support evil?

LAST LAST, YOU GO JOIN SUFFER THE MATTER

I know. But I am also tired of subsidisng fuel for people to go and smuggle it out at our expense, and also tired of bad refienreis, stealing at NNPC, and loss of too much revenue. Subsidy has cost us bad. Time it went.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Well, we were once a productive economy. Ask the politicians you support what happened.

No we weren't.

Nigeria has always been a resource dependent economy.

Till we start mass producing goods for export, then I will call us a productive economy. For now, we are just a poor economically unproductive nation., and APC is doing nothing about changing that.

When a man without ordinary O LEVEL certificate, ordinary WAEC, just WAEC was imposed on over two hundred million people, what do you expect? and some supposed educated ones are backing him, I don't think this country is redeemable any more because the plan going on now within APC is to get someone that would protect BUHARI's interest not even NIGERIANS interest. Nigeria our dear country is bleeding, we hope and pray it doesn't bleed to death. incompetent hands everywhere in key positions

Subsidybad21:
I agree with that.


It is a good idea, and it also works only if there isn't a subsidy so that fuel can be reined profitably for the multinaitonals to be able to make enough of a profit to create jobs, maintain the refinery, and build new ones...which means fuel price increases

Do you know that all those multinationals oil companies have references outside NIGERIA, how are there maintaining it outside the country?
Do you know that the waste product from it is used in tyre production, lether, slippers and lots more, what about Engine oil etc. Our problem is our leaders and corruption.



Sorry, but we need railways. For a host of reasons.

We need railways yes, but what affects every NIGERIANS now is oil prices, in scale of preference refineries should be considered first.


That would work if government also in removing the ban, also removes subsides, and allows makreters to control the price, so that they can make enough of a profit to earn enough dollars to import fuel.

Let them remove the subsidy all allow the marketers to control the prize, trust me within six months marketers will crash the price because of competition and you will even see some state government going into it



Because many of those illicit refinereis also damage the environment, worsening the already bad environmental picture there.

Environment is damaged because there are been pursued by security operatives, plus local materials ( fire wood ) used in production, if allowed to operate legally with Government support they will start using electric in heating the oil, thereby minimizing the level of environmental degredation and hazards.

Do you know that many of our Politicians have refineries outside NIGERIA

Subsidybad21:
No we weren't.

Nigeria has always been a resource dependent economy.

Till we start mass producing goods for export, then I will call us a productive economy. For now, we are just a poor economically unproductive nation., and APC is doing nothing about changing that.

I don't know how old you are and what you mean by a productive economy. If you're talking about producing for exports alone, i'll have you know that the biggest exporting nation in the world is ranked a developing economy by you capitalists.
Everything is not about exports. It should be more about self-sufficiency. That's were Nigeria is lacking. We are not self-sufficient in almost anything be it fuel to even a staple like rice.

But I digress. In the 70s up to the early 90s, Nigeria produced goods locally for consumption. We even used to export to Ghana. In case you don't know, the PH refinery was built exclusively for export. We were self-sufficient in local fuel production. Same for batteries, tyres, stationeries and textiles.
It was our elites and politicians, the ones whose policies you support that opened Nigeria up to imported goods and later killed our local industries so their import businesses could thrive.

Most countries in the world are resource dependent. It's not a crime. Economics is about the exploitation of the available resources for the benefit of mankind. Britain built the British empire being resource dependent. So again, I don't see how that is a crime

Agbegbaorogboye:
I don't know how old you are and what you mean by a productive economy. If you're talking about producing for exports alone, i'll have you know that the biggest exporting nation in the world is ranked a developing economy by you capitalists.
Everything is not about exports. It should be more about self-sufficiency. That's were Nigeria is lacking. We are not self-sufficient in almost anything be it fuel to even a staple like rice.

But I digress. In the 70s up to the early 90s, Nigeria produced goods locally for consumption. We even used to export to Ghana. In case you don't know, the PH refinery was built exclusively for export. We were self-sufficient in local fuel production. Same for batteries, tyres, stationeries and textiles.
It was our elites and politicians, the ones whose policies you support that opened Nigeria up to imported goods and later killed our local industries so their import businesses could thrive.

Most countries in the world are resource dependent. It's not a crime. Economics is about the exploitation of the available resources for the benefit of mankind. Britain built the British empire being resource dependent. So again, I don't see how that is a crime

Nigeria has to be producing industrial goods for export before we become a rich nation

samwillyco1:
This Government is a DISASTER believe it or not.

What will happen if Government mandates all the mult national oil companies in NIGERIA at least to build one good working refinery or leave the country for other that can do it.
Secondly, the money invested in railway projects should have been used to build new refineries or even privatize the existing ones if Government cannot manage it.
Thirdly why not remove the ban on importation of fuel so that people that have money can go into the business, instead of leaving it in the hands of few.
Finally, why is our government always rush to destroy the so called illegal refineries in the creek of Niger Delta, since our government cannot refine oil. Why not bring them together, monitor their activities, support them financially and improve the quality of product refined from all those refineries and have sources of giving them crude oil to avoid bunkery and stealing of the crude oil. Believe me if it is done these people will do wonders

Good points