₦airaland Forum

Subsidybad21:
Truth

That's what NNPC has been screaming since forever

At some point keeping fuel cheap is going to cost you billions of money that could have been used for other things.Like new refineries

It is time to let subsidy go. Many African countries who are poorer than us pay higher for fuel.

Subsidy has cost us billions in lost revenue and investment in new refineries and by extension jobs. Plus since 2012 the oil revenue has not been able to sustain the subsidy well. Time to let it go

No argument about that. But how long will this govt keep going back and forth about the subsidy stuff? When it was jerked up to 140+, they said subsidy has been removed. Now it's 162.5 and there is still talk about subsidy for which has been going on secretly. It's very obvious that this govt is not sincere.

Let them come out sincere to Nigerians. Kyari and co don't know how it feels to buy petrol at such an exorbitant price as they get free fuel for their cars courtesy of their govt office position. Tomorrow, when they are not there anymore they will be the ones crying loudest about high cost of fuel like Dino and co are currently doing same way President Buhari was before he became the president.

Note, most of other African countries we make reference to on high fuel prices are not comparable with Nigeria on crude oil production capacity and availability. This is where the principles of comparative advantages comes in but unfortunately, it is not in the Nigerian context. Can we compare the acquisition cost of technology in USA and other hitech countries to Nigeria. It is far cheaper to procure technology there than in Nigeria because they have a comparative advantage over it despite some component raw materials being gotten from Africa.

Also when doing comparison, we should desist from using our officially declared exchange rates as it is not factual in such comparison. Our leaders plunged us into such messy exchange rate devaluation due to their incompetencies and some very wrong trade and fiscal policies through selfishness et al.

Subsidybad21:
Nigeria has to be producing industrial goods for export before we become a rich nation

You just keep exposing your ignorance.

Do me a favour. Google richest nation in the world and tell me the "industrial goods" they export.

You need to get your theories in the proper perspective really.

kenmaro:
No argument about that. But how long will this govt keep going back and forth about the subsidy stuff? When it was jerked up to 140+, they said subsidy has been removed. Now it's 162.5 and there is still talk about subsidy for which has been going on secretly. It's very obvious that this govt is not sincere.

Let them come out sincere to Nigerians. Kyari and co don't know how it feels to buy petrol at such an exorbitant price as they get free fuel for their cars courtesy of their govt office position. Tomorrow, when they are not there anymore they will be the ones crying loudest about high cost of fuel like Dino and co are currently doing same way President Buhari was before he became the president.

Note, most of other African countries we make reference to on high fuel prices are not comparable with Nigeria on crude oil production capacity and availability. This is where the principles of comparative advantages comes in but unfortunately, it is not in the Nigerian context. Can we compare the acquisition cost of technology in USA and other hitech countries to Nigeria. It is far cheaper to procure technology there than in Nigeria because they have a comparative advantage over it despite some component raw materials being gotten from Africa.

Also when doing comparison, we should desist from using our officially declared exchange rates as it is not factual in such comparison. Our leaders plunged us into such messy exchange rate devaluation due to their incompetencies and some very wrong trade and fiscal policies through selfishness et al.

On the other hand subsidy
1. Wastes trillions of naira annually on payments whicb don't even cover the losses made.

2. Wastes trillions subsidising fuel for other african countries

3. Diverts millions away from health and education

4. Prevents private sector investment in the oil and gas sector

We earn less than the UAE oil production wise for a population twenty times theirs. Thus we have never had enough cash to subsidise despite being a major oil producer

Agbegbaorogboye:
You just keep exposing your ignorance.

Do me a favour. Google richest nation in the world and tell me the "industrial goods" they export.

You need to get your theories in the proper perspective really.

China is rich. China exports a lot of industrial products

Japan got rich the same way

So did the US and most other European nations

Why not Nigeria?

Pass the books and hold the oil, Pass the books and hold the oil

For all those subsidy lovers

Here is a thought

Removing subsidy could save us 2 trillion annually

Which could be used for government refinery

Plus the investment that pours in to build more refineries.

Subsidy must go

valentineuwakwe:
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/03/pms-nnpc-says-it-cant-bear-n120bn-monthly-subsidy/amp/

I thought subsidy is a scam o

History555:
I don't care if the price is 250. As long as buharist and i are paying the same price for fuel , i am happy

Subsidybad21:
China is rich. China exports a lot of industrial products

Japan got rich the same way

So did the US and most other European nations

Why not Nigeria?

Pass the books and hold the oil, Pass the books and hold the oil

Very narrow analysis. China did not become rich by exporting. As a matter of fact, they became rich before they started exporting. Japan. Yes. Very export dependent. US also did not become rich by exporting as well as a host of other European nations.
Now to what I asked of you. Luxembourg is the richest nation in the world. Followed by Qatar and then Switzerland and Norway. Can you tell me if these countries are export dependent?
There you go

what your baba Buhari and others told us is that there was no subsidy. So whatever you are talking about subsidy is fraud. There is no subsidy any longer in Nigeria. Shut the f****k

Subsidybad21:
Nigeria has to be producing industrial goods for export before we become a rich nation

Not true. There are many ways to skin a cat. It's more about the vision than the activity.

The Yorubas say there can't be only one road to a market.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Very narrow analysis. China did not become rich by exporting. As a matter of fact, they became rich before they started exporting. Japan. Yes. Very export dependent. US also did not become rich by exporting as well as a host of other European nations.
Now to what I asked of you. Luxembourg is the richest nation in the world. Followed by Qatar and then Switzerland and Norway. Can you tell me if these countries are export dependent?
There you go

Swiss and Norway have high industrial export rates.Norway in particular produces and exports componets for oil exploration

Qatar is an oil dependent economy. They get away with it because they have less than 2 million people and produce more than half of what oil we produce

Luxembourg is where the rich dunp their money's.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Not true. There are many ways to skin a cat. It's more about the vision than the activity.

The Yorubas say there can't be only one road to a market.

Yes and it stikes me that we waste our resources on export when we can use them to fuel a superbly industrial economy.

There is a reason why some of us don't support pdp or apc.

Agbegbaorogboye:
You just don't get it. You're holed up in your cocoon.
Dangote and others are building refineries. Two have been commissioned last year. All these in the midst of a subsidy regime. THIS PUTS PAY TO YOUR LIE THAT SUBSIDY IS THE REASON WHY REFINERIES ARE NOT BEING BUILT.
And again, dangote bought Kaduna refinery in 2007 when subsidy was still there.
Get your facts right!!

in most countries, oil majors like Shell, Eni, etc, build refineries in their host countries. This has not happened in Nigeria because of the subsidy.

Agbegbaorogboye:
You just keep exposing your ignorance.

Do me a favour. Google richest nation in the world and tell me the "industrial goods" they export.

You need to get your theories in the proper perspective really.

I'm a trained economist. He is right, and you are a complete idiot. Stop embarasing yourself here.

Aconomist:
in most countries, oil majors like Shell, Eni, etc, build refineries in their host countries. This has not happened in Nigeria because of the subsidy.

Truth

Venezuela used to have a policy where the majors built refineries in their country only for them to make things difficult for said majors by subsidising fuel to the max...meaning refinreis failed

Subsidybad21:
For all those subsidy lovers

Here is a thought

Removing subsidy could save us 2 trillion annually

Which could be used for government refinery

Plus the investment that pours in to build more refineries.

Subsidy must go

That is one the lies this government has been saying. Any who believe this has himself to blame

Subsidybad21:
Swiss and Norway have high industrial export rates.Norway in particular produces and exports componets for oil exploration

Qatar is an oil dependent economy. They get away with it because they have less than 2 million people and produce more than half of what oil we produce

Luxembourg is where the rich dunp their money's.

What does Switzerland export? Can you show me the export profile of Switzerland. You lie too much brother. Switzerland and Luxembourg are actually in the same boat. They are financial services hubs as well as international relations. So quit with the lies.
Norway exports same thing Nigeria does, oil. So you can see how it looks now. Same with Qatar.
The bottom line is management of resources and proper exploitation of the economy is what leads to riches. If we become a multi-product exporting nation as we once were and we still have bad leaders who think only of their pockets as opposed to that of the commonwealth, we will still arrive were we are.
What drives a nation forward is responsible leadership. In fact, that's what leads to the so-called export. It's not the other way round

Subsidybad21:
Swiss and Norway have high industrial export rates.Norway in particular produces and exports componets for oil exploration

Qatar is an oil dependent economy. They get away with it because they have less than 2 million people and produce more than half of what oil we produce

Luxembourg is where the rich dunp their money's.

Even luxembourg is industrialized. Electrical machinery and advanced surgical equipment are among thier top exports. What is wrong with Nigerians? How can someone in 2021 say that you don't need industrialization to become wealthy? That is an almost subhuman level of stupidity and ignorance.

Buccalcavity2:
Nigeria can't also bear the $1.5bn refinery upgrade for refineries that are perpetually bearing losses, and also overhead of staff working in such refineries. Simple.

They have set the process for projects in their constituency running. That's what matters to them.

Subsidybad21:
Yes and it stikes me that we waste our resources on export when we can use them to fuel a superbly industrial economy.

There is a reason why some of us don't support pdp or apc.

What resources do we waste on export? Our major problem is balance of trade not balance of payment. We import more than we export. Go check the volumes. Or why do you think Buhari has been banning so many imports and refusing imports for others? We import too much!! It can be solved by local production were we have the advantage and not just exports. Export is good. But that should not be our focus when we don't even have power. Self-sufficiency should be.

Aconomist:
in most countries, oil majors like Shell, Eni, etc, build refineries in their host countries. This has not happened in Nigeria because of the subsidy.

That's not true. We never needed Shell to build refineries for us. When our refineries worked at maximum capacity, we had more than enough fuel. There's no golden rule that says oil majors must build refineries in their host countries. It depends on their interests and of course if it's a govt policy.

Aconomist:
Even luxembourg is industrialized. Electrical machinery and advanced surgical equipment are among thier top exports. What is wrong with Nigerians? How can someone in 2021 say that you don't need industrialization to become wealthy? That is an almost subhuman level of stupidity and ignorance.

Even Saudi is trying to industrialize as their lifestyle of sharing oil proceeds has flatly failed. I don't know where our leaders are getting inspiration from if not from familiar spirits.

Aconomist:
I'm a trained economist. He is right, and you are a complete idiot. Stop embarasing yourself here.

Well... Mr trained economist, Buhari is a protectionist by his policies. Would you say you agree with his policies?

Subsidybad21:
Truth

That's what NNPC has been screaming since forever

At some point keeping fuel cheap is going to cost you billions of money that could have been used for other things.Like new refineries

It is time to let subsidy go. Many African countries who are poorer than us pay higher for fuel.

Subsidy has cost us billions in lost revenue and investment in new refineries and by extension jobs. Plus since 2012 the oil revenue has not been able to sustain the subsidy well. Time to let it go

Buhari and his Co- travellers said there was no subsidy in 2014, so what point did you and them now realize that subsidy actually exist?!

Subsidybad21:
You have just shown one big reason why subsidy must go

Big time corruption

Exactly. I support total removal. It's better we channel this money to welfare of our Civil Servants and Youths.

Agbegbaorogboye:
That's not true. We never needed Shell to build refineries for us. When our refineries worked at maximum capacity, we had more than enough fuel. There's no golden rule that says oil majors must build refineries in their host countries. It depends on their interests and of course if it's a govt policy.

Don't mind those paid propagandists. Dangote isn't shell or chevron and just built a mega one.

Agbegbaorogboye:
What does Switzerland export? Can you show me the export profile of Switzerland. You lie too much brother. Switzerland and Luxembourg are actually in the same boat. They are financial services hubs as well as international relations. So quit with the lies.
Norway exports same thing Nigeria does, oil. So you can see how it looks now. Same with Qatar.
The bottom line is management of resources and proper exploitation of the economy is what leads to riches. If we become a multi-product exporting nation as we once were and we still have bad leaders who think only of their pockets as opposed to that of the commonwealth, we will still arrive were we are.
What drives a nation forward is responsible leadership. In fact, that's what leads to the so-called export. It's not the other way round

If this is the level of reasoning produced by Nigerian universities, the country is doomed. Seemingly educated people reasoning like apes in the jungle. Switzerland's high labor costs have pushed them out of low value manufacturing, but that doesn't mean they arent Industrialized. they simply focus on ultra high value-added manufacturing. Their top exports are pharmaceutical products worth $88 billion, organic chemicals, precision machinery, and watches worth $18 billion.

Abdomox:
Exactly. I support total removal. It's better we channel this money to welfare of our Civil Servants and Youths.

Problem with total removal is that out of that N120B, only about N5B will impact the masses when channelled away from subsidy.

Aconomist:
Even luxembourg is industrialized. Electrical machinery and advanced surgical equipment are among thier top exports. What is wrong with Nigerians? How can someone in 2021 say that you don't need industrialization to become wealthy? That is an almost subhuman level of stupidity and ignorance.

The industrial sector, which was dominated by steel until the 1960s, has since diversified to include chemicals, rubber, and other products. During the past decades, growth in the financial sector has more than compensated for the decline in steel production. Services, especially banking and finance, account for the majority of the economic output. Luxembourg is the world's second largest investment fund centre (after the United States), the most important private banking centre in the Eurozone and Europe's leading centre for reinsurance companies. Moreover, the Luxembourg government has aimed to attract Internet start-ups, with Skype and Amazon being two of the many Internet companies that have shifted their regional headquarters to Luxembourg. Other high-tech companies have established themselves in Luxembourg, including 3D scanner developer/manufacturer Artec 3D.[citation needed]

In April 2009, concern about Luxembourg's banking secrecy laws, as well as its reputation as a tax haven, led to its being added to a "grey list" of nations with questionable banking arrangements by the G20. In response, the country soon after adopted OECD standards on exchange of information and was subsequently added into the category of "jurisdictions that have substantially implemented the internationally agreed tax standard".[78][79] In March 2010, the Sunday Telegraph reported that most of Kim Jong-Il's $4 billion in secret accounts is in Luxembourg banks.[80] Amazon.co.uk also benefits from Luxembourg tax loopholes by channeling substantial UK revenues as reported by The Guardian in April 2012.[81] Luxembourg ranked third on the Tax Justice Network's 2011 Financial Secrecy Index of the world's major tax havens, scoring only slightly behind the Cayman Islands.[82] In 2013, Luxembourg is ranked as the 2nd safest tax haven in the world, behind Switzerland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg#Economy

Aconomist:
If this is the level of reasoning produced by Nigerian universities, the country is doomed. Seemingly educated people reasoning like apes in the jungle. Switzerland's high labor costs have pushed them out of low value manufacturing, but that doesn't mean they arent Industrialized. they simply focus on ultra high value-added manufacturing. Their top exports are pharmaceutical products worth $88 billion, organic chemicals, precision machinery, and watches worth $18 billion.

Who said they aren't industrialized? Seems you should focus more on English language comprehension than economics.

Abdomox:
Exactly. I support total removal. It's better we channel this money to welfare of our Civil Servants and Youths.

Health and education first in my opinion