₦airaland Forum

Agbegbaorogboye:
The industrial sector, which was dominated by steel until the 1960s, has since diversified to include chemicals, rubber, and other products. During the past decades, growth in the financial sector has more than compensated for the decline in steel production. Services, especially banking and finance, account for the majority of the economic output. Luxembourg is the world's second largest investment fund centre (after the United States), the most important private banking centre in the Eurozone and Europe's leading centre for reinsurance companies. Moreover, the Luxembourg government has aimed to attract Internet start-ups, with Skype and Amazon being two of the many Internet companies that have shifted their regional headquarters to Luxembourg. Other high-tech companies have established themselves in Luxembourg, including 3D scanner developer/manufacturer Artec 3D.[citation needed]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg#Economy

When a country becomes developed enough, services become a larger portion of their economy because wages are too high for competitive manufacturing. This is called a "post industrial economy".

Development happens in thee stages. First you are agriculture based, then you become manufacturing based, then you become services based. Africans are trying to skip the manufacturing part, which is why we have persistent poverty and unemployment.

Right now in china, they can turn $1 worth of sand (silicon) into a $5,000 computer chip. If you think you can compete with that by exporting natural resources, you are a fool.

Sunnyja:
Buhari and his Co- travellers said there was no subsidy in 2014, so what point did you and them now realize that subsidy actually exist?!

Well i have supported subsidy removal since 2012.

Never ever voted for Buhari either

Subsidybad21:
Yes, and like most Nigerians at the time, they did not understand how subsidies worked.

(Plus they hurt themselves indirectly. If subsidy had gone in 2012, by now, we would have been reaping the benefits, and assuming they were in power now...they would be claiming the praise for the initiative).

Politics is a dirty game. PDP was for subsidy removal in 2012, now they oppose it.

APC never knew how subsidy worked? How you guys come up with excuses for this government beats me. It's appalling to say the least that a major opposition working to take over government know little about government they are coming to take over. Biden hit the ground running before he took reins of office. Buhari took more than six months to appoint ministers. Question is, what were they coming to do? All these years you never did underground study of governance problems and how to tackle it? It's sad you guys come to defend these people. Well we all dey the Nigeria together.

For PDP, it is not an opposition to subsidy, it is asking the right questions, why have we not diversified these 6years? Why are our refineries not working? I thought you said there was no subsidy, what are you now subsidizing? Is it wrong to ask the right questions?

We no de cry O, na make we see money jakpa leave the country for you and Buhari.

CodeTemplar:
Don't mind those paid propagandists. Dangote isn't shell or chevron and just built a mega one.

Because he got the loans to do so.

Said loans were given to him by the banks because if the refinery fails due to subsidy they just take over his other assets and get their money back

Which is why subsidy has to go for Dangote refineries to be sucessful

mcquin:
APC never knew how subsidy worked? How you guys come up with excuses for this government beats me. It's appalling to say the least that a major opposition working to take over government know little about government they are coming to take over. Biden hit the ground running before he took reins of office. Buhari took more than six months to appoint ministers. Question is, what were they coming to do? All these years you never did underground study of governance problems and how to tackle it? It's sad you guys come to defend these people. Well we all dey the Nigeria together.

For PDP, it is not an opposition to subsidy, it is asking the right questions, why have we not diversified these 6years? Why are our refineries not working? I thought you said there was no subsidy, what are you now subsidizing? Is it wrong to ask the right questions?

We no de cry O, na make we see money jakpa leave the country for you and Buhari.

Well if apc knew how a subsidy worked they won't have opposed it.

Same for PDP.

Apc was wrong to oppose subsidy removal.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Well... Mr trained economist, Buhari is a protectionist by his policies. Would you say you agree with his policies?

I agree with protectionism, but the execution is terrible. They are restricting imports without creating a business environment favorable to local production. This is leading to massive inflation.

Nigeria needs to remove all forms of subsidy, unify the exchange rate, and break up Dangote Cement's oligopoly before even talking about protectionsim.

Rugaria:
The president of this country just handed out over 60 oil wells to "UNKNOWN" people and all of you are quiet Is there any bigger corruption case than this? Is Nigeria Buharis property? Why secret? What are they hiding? What's going on!?!?
Within the last few years, Buhari who has doubled as the minister of petroleum, has renewed over 60 oil well licences too, and all were kept secret too!!!
People, this is not buharis or fulanis oil wells. This man is auctioning off sensitive economic assets of the country to cronies, while shouting "anti corruption" all over the place! Buhari is the corruption he needs to fight..

Help me tell them....
Lemme help u increase the volume, its like some people r not hearingu well

Nigerian protectionsim is failing because people like Dangote are exploiting it to kill local competition and hold the people hostage with outrageously high prices.

Aconomist:
When a country becomes developed enough, services become a larger portion of their economy because wages are too high for competitive manufacturing. This is called a "post industrial economy".

Development happens in thee stages. First you are agriculture based, then you become manufacturing based, then you become services based. Africans are trying to skip the manufacturing part, which is why we have persistent poverty and unemployment.

Right now in china, they can turn $1 worth of sand (silicon) into a $5,000 computer chip. If you think you can compete with that by exporting natural resources, you are a fool.

What about the UAE? When did they pass the manufacturing phase?

Don't forget I never said Nigeria should not be industrialized. It's an assumption of yours

Let this be the last time you quote me with insults if you don't want me to remind you how you were born

Agbegbaorogboye:
What about the UAE? When did they pass the manufacturing phase?

Don't forget I never said Nigeria should not be industrialized. It's an assumption of yours

Nigeria would have been like the UAE if we had a population less than 14 million people

UAE is as oil dependent as Nigeria. Because they have a smaller population they thus have more money to spend on shiny things.

where did we get wrong in this country.
what stops us from refining the crude locally. why must we continue to dwell so much on importation.

makermix:
wat u just wrote makes no sense.

he n his family can afford it even if its 500 naira, can u afford it without thinking bout it?

Oga read. Buharist not buhari himself

Agbegbaorogboye:
What about the UAE? When did they pass the manufacturing phase?

Don't forget I never said Nigeria should not be industrialized. It's an assumption of yours

Let this be the last time you quote me with insults if you don't want me to remind you how you were born

U.A.E is like if you put 2.5 times Nigeria's total oil production into a population half the size of Lagos and then hired foreigners to do 85 percent of the skilled labor.

kennyblaq:
where did we get wrong in this country.
what stops us from refining the crude locally. why must we continue to dwell so much on importation.

Because we subside fuel it is therefore unprofitable to refine fuel here at home

Subsidy means fuel gets sold below the production price therefore at a loss. The subsidy is the money paid to cover those losses

Aconomist:
I agree with protectionism, but the execution is terrible. They are restricting imports without creating a business environment favorable to local production. This is leading to massive inflation.

Nigeria needs to remove all forms of subsidy, unify the exchange rate, and break up Dangote Cement's oligopoly before even talking about protectionsim.

Ok. Let's interrogate this Mr Economist. You want to remove all forms of subsidy.
How do you remove subsidy in education when Nigeria has over 9million children out of school
How do you remove subsidy in health when malaria still kills million of Nigeria yearly
How do you remove subsidy from agriculture when Nigeria is obviously not self-sufficient
For the petroleum, and as a corollary to protectionism, Imagine a Nigerian who starts a business at a barbershop, the first challenge he has is not procuring an electric clipper, it's being able to power the clipper. He does that by buying a tiger generator which runs on fuel. If govt removes subsidy from fuel, how has that barber been protected. Same holds for agriculture especially Fadama. So how can you be for protectionism and be against subsidy?
Can you also explain how exactly you want Buhari to unify the exchange rate and still execute protectionism in this Nigerian environment?
Lastly, what exactly are your plans to break up Dangote's oligopoly as you call it noting that Dangote is a product of protectionism.
I'm waiting

Subsidybad21:
Because we subside fuel it is therefore unprofitable to refine fuel here at home

Subsidy means fuel gets sold below the production price therefore at a loss. The subsidy is the money paid to cover those losses

He lies again.

We don't have production price for fuel in Nigeria. What we have is landing cost.

LadySarah:
Can someone explain to me why durinvg Jonah's tenure,removal of subsidy would amount to #145 ftom #97 and yet we are at #212 and still paying subsidy?

Where are the labor Unions that threatened to shut down the country,the Opposition lions and the BMC.


Remove it and let us rest, fools!At this point i feel sorry for the businesses dependent on fuel to power their equipments.

the masses who buy their products/services deserve your pity instead coz they are the ones to take the hit. These masses (you and I) still act like everythings is fine.

Aconomist:
U.A.E is like if you put 2.5 times Nigeria's total oil production into a population half the size of Lagos and then hired foreigners to do 85 percent of the skilled labor.

There we go. But they are now very strong in services and never entered the manufacturing phase true or false?

The problem with you armchair intellectuals is your attempt at one size fits all. When the weaknesses are exposed, you start looking for peculiarities you never considered when propagating your theories. No wonder you're friends with that other guy.

What exactly does their oil output and population have to do with moving from manufacturing to services according to you?

Agbegbaorogboye:
He lies again.

We don't have production price for fuel in Nigeria. What we have is landing cost.

And we sell it below the landing cost with NNPC paying a subsidy to cover the difference since 2017

Production cost applies to the days when we still refined at home and su subsisized

Subsidybad21:
And we sell it below the landing cost with NNPC paying a subsidy to cover the difference since 2017

Production cost applies to the days when we still refined at home and su subsisized

I was waiting for you to say the bolded. You're almost unteachable which is why i'm more than convinced you're a paid apologist. If you were truly in search of knowledge, you would have taken it since when I showed you that when we produced fuel locally, we never subsidized. At least I showed you with facts then. So why do you keep pushing this obvious lie?

Agbegbaorogboye:
I was waiting for you to say the bolded. You're almost unteachable which is why i'm more than convinced you're a paid apologist. If you were truly in search of knowledge, you would have taken it since when I showed you that when we produced fuel locally, we never subsidized. At least I showed you with facts then. So why do you keep pushing this obvious lie?

We did. The facts you showed then proved it.

If we did not, what subsidy was Baroness Chalker talking about in 1993?

Or why was government controling the price of fuel then?

Good am

Subsidybad21:
It unfortunately is the truth, and it also shows that APC has failed as regards diversificaiton of the economy

Good morning, PDP man. I also hate the APC too

Bro I'm not pdp either, I am just tired of the govt as a whole. But more angry with this present govt because I put too much expectation on them n the failed woefully

Subsidybad21:
We did. The facts you showed then proved it.

If we did not, what subsidy was Baroness Chalker talking about in 1993?

Or why was government controling the price of fuel then?

Good am

You should go and ask her not me.

Government was "controlling" the price then because govt was the producer of the fuel. Just the theory you've been pushing that the producer should determine price.

Mind you, the facts I showed you then proved that the refineries were running at a profit then. Especially in the 80s which was why the PH refinery was built to cater for export. So how could the fuel be subsidized if the refineries were making profit or does profit mean something else?

Agbegbaorogboye:
You should go and ask her not me.

Government was "controlling" the price then because govt was the producer of the fuel. Just the theory you've been pushing that the producer should determine price.

Mind you, the facts I showed you then proved that the refineries were running at a profit then. Especially in the 80s which was why the PH refinery was built to cater for export. So how could the fuel be subsidized if the refineries were making profit or does profit mean something else?

Because as you said then they were.not subsidising fuel to a point that was below the production price

When they went below the production price in subsidizing fuel in the early 90s that's when issues started

Even then price controls are not sustainable long term

Komu1048:
Bro I'm not pdp either, I am just tired of the govt as a whole. But more angry with this present govt because I put too much expectation on them n the failed woefully

That's why i tell you people don't vote apc or pdp.

There are 20 other parties. Try them. I do.

Agbegbaorogboye:
There we go. But they are now very strong in services and never entered the manufacturing phase true or false?

The problem with you armchair intellectuals is your attempt at one size fits all. When the weaknesses are exposed, you start looking for peculiarities you never considered when propagating your theories. No wonder you're friends with that other guy.

What exactly does their oil output and population have to do with moving from manufacturing to services according to you?

I'm trying not to insult you, but you are making this difficult. Are you trying to have an honest discussion about economics or just play games? If I say dogs bark or snakes bite, you can always find a dog that doesn't bark or a snake that doesn't bite, but that doesn't disprove the rule.

Why are you comparing a country with 10 million people to a country of 200 million expected to reach 400 million by 2050? It's an apple to oranges comparison. If you are so married to your braindead theory that manufacturing isn't necessary, why don't you find a large country and make the comparison? Oh wait... it doesn't exist.

Hmmm! The poor have to keep tightening their belts for the rich to grow bigger.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Ok. Let's interrogate this Mr Economist. You want to remove all forms of subsidy.
How do you remove subsidy in education when Nigeria has over 9million children out of school
How do you remove subsidy in health when malaria still kills million of Nigeria yearly
How do you remove subsidy from agriculture when Nigeria is obviously not self-sufficient
For the petroleum, and as a corollary to protectionism, Imagine a Nigerian who starts a business at a barbershop, the first challenge he has is not procuring an electric clipper, it's being able to power the clipper. He does that by buying a tiger generator which runs on fuel. If govt removes subsidy from fuel, how has that barber been protected. Same holds for agriculture especially Fadama. So how can you be for protectionism and be against subsidy?
Can you also explain how exactly you want Buhari to unify the exchange rate and still execute protectionism in this Nigerian environment?
Lastly, what exactly are your plans to break up Dangote's oligopoly as you call it noting that Dangote is a product of protectionism.
I'm waiting

1. I don't believe education or healthcare should be subsidized, it should be free in any country that is serious about development. To be clear, this subsidy discussion is about sectors where we want the private sector to drive growth -- so petroleum refining, electricity generation, etc.

2. Very strong point. But electricity generation shouldn't depend on petroleum. Instead of subsidizing petroleum for generators, Nigeria should fix its electricity grid.

3. Removing the exchange rate will cause the naira to fall, making imports more expensive and domestic production cheaper. It will also remove the corruption and arbitrage that exists under the current system.

4. Dangote has illegally seized limestone rights all over the country, preventing competitors from entering the market. This should be reversed. Some of his mergers should also be spun off into independent companies.

Subsidybad21:
Because as you said then they were.not subsidising fuel to a point that was below the production price

When they went below the production price in subsidizing fuel in the early 90s that's when issues started

Even then price controls are not sustainable long term

NNPC organization structure

The NNPC was established by a special Act which gave it autonomy as a Corporation [8]. Though a National Oil Corporation (NOC), it was run by professionals who had come mainly from the private sector. They were allowed to operate under governance by a Board appointed by Government with professionals and a representative from the Ministry of Finance Incorporated (MOFI). MOFI was the investment arm of the government, and hence had an eye for profitability and efficiency. The Minister of Petroleum was the Chairman of the Board. Thus, the corporation was allowed autonomy to run its affairs, maintain assets and run these government investments to a large degree without political interference, except to obtain approvals as needed from time to time from the Minister of Petroleum. The Petroleum Act gave the Minister the necessary authority to exercise these powers. Under this arrangement, capacity utilization by the Refineries was same as existed elsewhere in the world, maintenance was carried out in a timely fashion, and all operating and maintenance costs and expenses (including staff salaries and benefits) were met without recourse to the Federation account. The refineries paid dividends and profits to the Government.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13203-018-0211-z


Read and stop spreading lies.
You will see here that production decline started in the early to mid 1990s. So when did you see subsidy before then?

Agbegbaorogboye:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13203-018-0211-z


Read and stop spreading lies.
You will see here that production decline started in the early to mid 1990s. So when did you see subsidy before then?

Since when we had price controls

When GOVERNMENT controls the price there is a subsidy

Aconomist:
I'm trying not to insult you, but you are making this difficult. Are you trying to have an honest discussion about economics or just play games? If I say dogs bark or snakes bite, you can always find a dog that doesn't bark or a snake that doesn't bite, but that doesn't disprove the rule.

Why are you comparing a country with 10 million people to a country of 200 million expected to reach 400 million by 2050? It's an apple to oranges comparison. If you are so married to your braindead theory that manufacturing isn't necessary, why don't you find a large country and make the comparison? Oh wait... it doesn't exist.

Again, I challenge you to quote where I said manufacturing isn't necessary.
It's obvious you jumped into a conversation you don't understand to exhibit your I-too-know.

I suggest you understand the premise of my argument or stop quoting me forthwith

Subsidybad21:
Since when we had price controls

When GOVERNMENT controls the price there is a subsidy

Well NNPC was govt owned and they fixed price then just as they do now and there was no subsidy then as this document proves.

The difference then was that we had refineries then. Simple. Accept that and accept peace.

Mind you, your argument then was that it was subsidy that killed the refinery. You have lied a lot. It's time you calm down with the lies