₦airaland Forum

Hueman:
Kenya, Swaziland, and South Africa already has a growing socialist party. Big countries like Nigeria needs to join so we can set the stage across the continent.

Yeah Nigeria is about to jump on that bandwagon very soon the only thing holding us back is the north hopefully they can learn from Aminu Kano

Abohboy:
Funny because who makes that data specifically? I hope you know the scandinavian countries are socialist so if they're on this your list then your point has already failed and as far as I know there's been a hell of a lot more scandals concerning America, UK, France and all of those countries with corruption ( Watergate comes to mind ) then scandals in China and Vietnam especiakky China there corrupt leaders are executed on the spot so where's this your data coming from claiming countries like China are corrupt

I don't do conspiracy theories, get actual studies to counter my argument instead of using excuses like "who makes that data"

Scandinavian countries are not socialist, you are getting stuck because of the word Nordic "socialism" and automatically think it's socialist when simply they 100% a free market based economy but have comprehensive welfare state, collective bargaining and a large public sector employment all of which also don't necessarily fall under the definition of socialism.

Hueman:
So when our government let’s shell and chevron do whatever they want in the niger delta because of the “FREE” market then how exactly are they being incompetent They are just playing the games of capitalism.

Uhm no.....that's not how a free market works mate!!! shows how little you know about capitalism.

jl115:
I don't do conspiracy theories, get actual studies to counter my argument instead of using excuses like "who makes that data"

Scandinavian countries are not socialist, you are getting stuck because of the word Nordic "socialism" and automatically think it's socialist when simply they 100% a free market based economy but have comprehensive welfare state, collective bargaining and a large public sector employment all of which also don't necessarily fall under the definition of socialism.

I'm not the one who termed it socialist and it's not a conspiracy theory to want to know the source of data, and I don't care what your definition is the Nordic countries are socialist or at least practice a type of socialism there's no singular type of socialism as you tried to say

jl115:
Funny because Capitalist countries top the list for least corrupt countries and true socialist/communist states are at the bottom?

Why won't they, when the list is created by themselves?

The amount of corruption that goes on between their corporations and gov't, if you compare ours to it, Ours is child play..

Abohboy:
1. Nordic countries are socialist with capitalist tendencies and what do you mean by more equal have you ever been to America or France or the UK to see the equality?2. In China they just banned private schools so all people have equal opportunity to get good learning and nobody gets more priority 3. but England and America and them lot would never do that because they're too capitalist to care about the well being of citizens for the most part or at least of poor citizens they love the rich ones.

1. NOOO!!!!!!! LOL!!!!! They are free market capitalist economies, workers still work for a boss /(Private company) and people can still start businesses(Private companies) and employ people, workers don't own the means of production(unless they own it themselves like a private company). They do however have state owned companies, welfare and collective bargaining which don't even by themselves necessarily even fall under the definition of socialism.

2. Learn the difference between equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome, what you just said is the definition of equality of outcome since now everybody has to go to the same school regardless of the quality of education and nobody has the opportunity to go to a private institution which might offer better education.

3. yet the UK and US citizens are more wealthy, live in less poverty and are in fact more equal than Chinese citizens...

Just30:
Why won't they, when the list is created by themselves?

The amount of corruption that goes on between their corporations and gov't, if you compare ours to it, Ours is child play..

Then get me a fvcking list that puts capitalist countries at the bottom then Now run along and get me some evidence instead of crying that the list is biased somehow

jl115:
1. NOOO!!!!!!! LOL!!!!! They are free market capitalist economies, workers still work for a boss /(Private company) and people can still start businesses(Private companies) and employ people, workers don't own the means of production(unless they own it themselves like a private company). They do however have state owned companies, welfare and collective bargaining which don't even by themselves necessarily even fall under the definition of socialism.

2. Learn the difference between equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome, what you just said is the definition of equality of outcome since now everybody has to go to the same school regardless of the quality of education and nobody has the opportunity to go to a private institution which might offer better education.

3. yet the UK and US citizens are more wealthy, live in less poverty and are in fact more equal than Chinese citizens...

Have you seen the size of China's economy and the sizze of its population it is impossible for Chinese citizens to be as rich as the citizens in those countries.

Abohboy:
I'm not the one who termed it socialist and it's not a conspiracy theory to want to know the source of data, and I don't care what your definition is the Nordic countries are socialist or at least practice a type of socialism there's no singular type of socialism as you tried to say

It's the fact that you don't know the definition of socialism which is the problem......if you did you would understand that Nordic Socialism isn't socialism at all but actually capitalism sprayed with a little welfare and state employment......

And again, stop saying the research I provide is wrong when you don't have any to counter it

jl115:
It's the fact that you don't know the definition of socialism which is the problem......if you did you would understand that Nordic Socialism isn't socialism at all but actually capitalism sprayed with a little welfare and state employment......

And again, stop saying the research I provide is wrong when you don't have any to counter it

What is your source

Abohboy:
Have you seen the size of China's economy and the sizze of its population it is impossible for Chinese citizens to be as rich as the citizens in those countries.

Lets take Cuba then it only has a population of 11 million or we can use Vietnam , North Korea, Laos which ever you want

You kind of realise that the rest of the world doesn't care about what goes on in other countries to be creating list right?

The nosey ones are those who like to create those list to self elivatye themselves,,

Read from their own mouthpiece
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/28/report-transparency-international-corruption-worst-decade-united-states/



The US is at the centre of Modern Kleptocracy
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/3/21100092/us-trump-kleptocracy-corruption-tax-havens

jl115:
Then get me a fvcking list that puts capitalist countries at the bottom then Now run along and get me some evidence instead of crying that the list is biased somehow

Abohboy:
What is your source

source on what? you talking about the corruption index?

Hueman:
So you agree more African countries need to be ran by socialist ?

combination of all economic and political idea. No idea remain absolute . No black and White in life . It should be tailored to our national needs

jl115:
Lets take Cuba then it only has a population of 11 million or we can use Vietnam , North Korea, Laos which ever you want

Those are examples of failed socialism due to bad leadership but there are over 50 plus examples of how capitalism has gone wrong so do you really want to do that.

Just30:
You kind of realise that the rest of the world doesn't care about what goes on in other countries to be creating list right?

The nosey ones are those who like to create those list to self elivatye themselves,,

Read from their own mouthpiece
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/28/report-transparency-international-corruption-worst-decade-united-states/

OK so what you are saying is that there is no evidence stating that capitalist countries are more corrupt because other countries don't care what goes on HOWEVER capitalist countries are the most corrupt because they are, but you just don't have the evidence because there is none since countries don't create lists............

You see how you are contradicting yourself my bru

Abohboy:
Those are examples of failed socialism due to bad leadership but there are over 50 plus examples of how capitalism has gone wrong so do you really want to do that.

the bolded is key

Abohboy:
Those are examples of failed socialism due to bad leadership but there are over 50 plus examples of how capitalism has gone wrong so do you really want to do that.

Also show me successful examples of socialism............

P.S Nordic countries are not socialist!!!

jl115:
Also show me successful examples of socialism............

P.S Nordic countries are not socialist!!!

China, Sweden, Norway etc. The Nordic countries are socialist or social democracies whether you like it or not cry more.

Abohboy:
China, Sweden, Norway etc. The Nordic countries are socialist or social democracies whether you like it or not cry more.

Sweden and Norway are capitalist countries with free market economies, they have privately owned corporations and prices are dictated by the market and not the Government the fact that they have welfare and public enterprises doesn't make it a socialist state.....even China has adopted a more capitalist approach to there economy!!

Very true. Countries where there is a Elite consensus to develop a country will always prosper be it military dictatorship, monarchy or democracy. That is a concept Nigerian elites are still grappling with. Thinking that some ism will solve our issues is frankly naïve talk.

Communism is so great the Soviet Union collapsed after barely changed 70 years. Evil Capitalist America is still going strong despite predictions they will crumble.

China was smart to learn from the Soviet collapse to borrow capitalist ideals to develop their nation. Everyone in China is just content with their system of governance because the economy is doing well and most people are balling. It'll be interesting to see if they will still be in love with the communist party whenever the economy struggles a bit.

jl115:
the problem isn't capitalism but corruption and incompetence of the Nigerian government........

Abohboy:
NHS is more of a welfare system but at the same time yes it's a socialist type system but if you read the news anyday you'll see how it is being affected by the capitalist conservative party led by Boris Johnson

Uk policy is highly welfare headed by the queen herself . So socialism is right embedded in their political system. For example, the queen has raised millions upon millions of pounds for worthy causes for everything from children with dread diseases to wounded soldiers. That is socialist / welfare outlook.

jl115:
OK so what you are saying is that there is no evidence stating that capitalist countries are more corrupt because other countries don't care what goes on HOWEVER capitalist countries are the most corrupt because they are, but you just don't have the evidence because there is none since countries don't create lists............

You see how you are contradicting yourself my bru

Seems you didn't read the links I provided for you

Let me state it for you

The USA is a behemoth tax haven
A kleptocratic, Oligarchy police state
A monster in the world of dirty money laundering

If that does not give you an idea of how corrupt it is, I dont think you know what corruption is.

Just30:
Seems you didn't read the links I provided for you

Let me state it for you

The USA is a behemoth tax have
A kleptocratic, Oligarchy police state
A monster in the world of dirty money laundering

If that does not give you an idea of how corrupt it is, I dont think you know what corruption is.

No i didn't read it because I need to subscribe.

and that still doesn't in anyway change my point

There is gov role in business - but it must be for a short while - before they sell out. Gov should invest in business that do not make business sense but are strategic - infant industries - and once they mature - they should exit.

I dont see how strategic cattle ranching or poultry is - that private individuals cannot do?

If you want to do large cattle ranching or poultry - organize the small holders into cooperatives - and you will get the same economic benefits.

obaaderemi:
I still find it difficult to be on the bandwagon that supports the idea that government should not get involved in business.

Government can go into partnership with the private sector, especially banks, to set up corporations or SME where the government will have no hand in the day to day running of the businesses. Banks are good at running businesses and generating money and employment.

Take for example, there is a farm settlement in Ibadan set up in the 50s by Obafemi Awolowo, the premier of the defunct Western region.
It had a cattle ranch and facilities for poultry business and other things. Now it is totally abandoned.

Meanwhile the state governor is currently spending $75 million ( over 20 billion dollars) putting up street lights in the state. A tenth of that money would turn around the farm settlement and the entire agricultural production of the state.

I did my calculation, half of that money would put up at least 1000 low income new flats for the citizens. This would not only beautify the state, it would be an everlasting source of income for the state and help ease the housing deficit a little.

vaxx:
Uk policy is highly welfare headed by the queen herself . So socialism is right embedded in their political system. For example, the queen has raised millions upon millions of pounds for worthy causes for everything from children with dread diseases to wounded soldiers. That is socialist / welfare outlook.

Seems like people here truly don't understand what socialism is!! Just because a country has welfare and a public sector does not make it a socialist country

chrisooblog:
Very true. Countries where there is a Elite consensus to develop a country will always prosper be it military dictatorship, monarchy or democracy. That is a concept Nigerian elites are still grappling with. Thinking that some ism will solve our issues is frankly naïve talk.

Communism is so great the Soviet Union collapsed after barely changed 70 years. Evil Capitalist America is still going strong despite predictions they will crumble.

China was smart to learn from the Soviet collapse to borrow capitalist ideals to develop their nation. Everyone in China is just content with their system of governance because the economy is doing well and most people are balling. It'll be interesting to see if they will still be in love with the communist party whenever the economy struggles a bit.

Exactly!!!!!!!!

vaxx:
Uk policy is highly welfare headed by the queen herself . So socialism is right embedded in their political system. For example, the queen has raised millions upon millions of pounds for worthy causes for everything from children with dread diseases to wounded soldiers. That is socialist / welfare outlook.

The queen doesn't do shit and she doesn't control any welfare system I live there and I understand the politics she doesn't solely raise moeny so do celebrities and politicians.

Abohboy:
The queen doesn't do shit and she doesn't control any welfare system I live there and I understand the politics she doesn't solely raise moeny so do celebrities and politicians.

she has been a source of many welfare development agenda in UK. You only need to google up.

Help yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4opFbB6okwo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKGwGAHznFQ

jl115:
Sweden and Norway are capitalist countries with free market economies, they have privately owned corporations and prices are dictated by the market and not the Government the fact that they have welfare and public enterprises doesn't make it a socialist state.....even China has adopted a more capitalist approach to there economy!!

jl115:
Seems like people here truly don't understand what socialism is!! Just because a country has welfare and a public sector does not make it a socialist country

ok

jl115:
No i didn't read it because I need to subscribe.

and that still doesn't in anyway change my point

Subscribe and you will learn how your point is invalid