₦airaland Forum

popizaino:
My video is about Carrick pre assist, and that is what is meant by quality passes not passing backward and sideways that doesn't hurt your opposition. You on the other hand in your bid to make Jorginho better he is brought assist, which if we decide to compare he would be found wanting so I brought a challenge which was more easier, pre assist. If you all claim jorginho has quality pass then provide me with his pre-assist videos not assist video.

Lol... You get serious problem.

Where in your initial post did you mention pre assist in your challenge. When has pre assist become more important than actual assist? Is pre assist even a metric in football to measure a footballers quality? Who boasts of pre assist in football? If Jorginho can give direct assists, of what importance is 'pre' in the assist?

Oga go siddon one side. This Jorginho slander is DOA. Look for something else to talk.

Nobody wey una no go use to slander Jorginho. Carrick. As in, Carrick!

For all his pre assist or whatever, when Carrick climb Ballon D'or podium or enter FIFPRO XI, you can then bring his name beside Jorginho. Nonsense.

Na images like this go dey choke una 600 years.

AnfieldFan:
He didn't start in the middle for Wolves, he starts in the middle for Liverpool and you can see him clearly stating that he's starting in the middle because Klopp has asked him to ...When he plays together with Bobby, he goes back to the left and Bobby drops back to the middle...

At what point did I argue against this? Did I not tell you that in "some" games he has played as the false 9? Did I not agree that both players handle that role differently with Bobby being more creative but Jota being more clinical with his chances?

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Amoto94:
Why did Ronaldo outscored Benzema, and why did Messi outscored Villa?

That is because Ronaldo is a better player and goal scorer than Benzema and Messi is a better player and goal scorer than Villa

AnfieldFan:
The argument isn't who scores more, It's if Jota benches Bobby when both are fit...So far, you haven't proved that because it can't be proven...

You mentioned him playing more this season and it's because Bobby's mostly been injured...
Firmino has been in almost every teamsheet since Klopp's appointment...

Thats the easiest thing to prove. From transfermarkt we can see the games when Firmino wasnt injured

In the league even when fit Firmino has only played more than 45minutes 3 times. Basically even when Firmino was fit, he was used as a sub playing 20mins here 30 mins there

Now look at Jotas mintes even in the games where Firmino was fit and see the minutes Jota was playing
Jota only played below 45mins vs Brigton and vs Villa(which Firmino was out). With Mane and Salah being regulars for most games we can see that the rotation between Firmino and Jota is skewed in favour of Jota by almost 2/3

raumdeuter:
That is because Ronaldo is a better player and goal scorer than Benzema and Messi is a better player and goal scorer than Villa

You once opined that Benzema not scoring more than up to 25 league goals is because of Ronaldo's presence (I'm not arguing who is better) I'm making a case for Firmino that despite his poor goal returns he's pivotal to how his team operates. A striker like Firmino shouldn't be judged solely on his goal returns because he he acts as the link between the attack and midfield by dropping deep during buildup play allowing Mane and Salah to occupy the central space waiting for through balls and crosses.

AnfieldFan:
The argument isn't who scores more, It's if Jota benches Bobby when both are fit...So far, you haven't proved that because it can't be proven...

You mentioned him playing more this season and it's because Bobby's mostly been injured...
Firmino has been in almost every teamsheet since Klopp's appointment...

Why I say its the easiest to prove

Lets see games 1 Norwich(Jota 61min Firmino 29min = Total 90mins),
Gameweek 2 Jota 81mins Firmino 9mins = Total 90mins
GW6 Brentford Jota 90mins Firmino 22mins
Gameweek 7 City Jota 68min Firmino 22mins = Total 90mins
Gameweek 8 Jota 0 Firmino 90
Gameweek 9 Man Utd Jota 90mins Firmino 77min
Gameweek 10 Brighton Jota 12 Firmino 78 = Total 90
Gameweek 17 Newcastle Jota 90mins Firmino 16mins
Game week 18 Spurs Jota 90mins Firmino 30mins
Gameweek 20 Jota 90, Firmino 20mins
Gameweek 22 Brentford Jota 82mins, Firmino 78mins

When both are fit
Jota 754mins, Firmino 471mins

So do you need further proof on who has been benching the other?

Amoto94:
You once opined that Benzema not scoring more than up to 25 league goals is because of Ronaldo's presence (I'm not arguing who is better) I'm making a case for Firmino that despite his poor goal returns he's pivotal to how his team operates. A striker like Firmino shouldn't be judged solely on his goal returns because he he acts as the link between the attack and midfield by dropping deep during buildup play allowing Mane and Salah to occupy the central space waiting for through balls and crosses.

No one is asking Firmino to outscore Salah but to put an output decent enough like Jota is doing. Jota is not outscoring Salah
Why did you pick 25goals? Is there something specific about number 25? How about this Firmino has scored 15 league goals 1 time in his entire Liverpool career, Benzema scored 15 goals 5 times while Ronaldo was there and without Ronaldo he has scored over 20 league goals every season

This season when Firmino has been dropped, Jota is doing all these and still scoring without any effect on Liverpool attacking machine. This season just showed us that all the activity Firmino has been forming is a scam. Jota is doing it and scoring
Infact Jota is the 2nd highest goal scorer in the entire league

raumdeuter:
Thats the easiest thing to prove. From transfermarkt we can see the games when Firmino wasnt injured

In the league even when fit Firmino has only played more than 45minutes 3 times. Basically even when Firmino was fit, he was used as a sub playing 20mins here 30 mins there

Now look at Jotas mintes even in the games where Firmino was fit and see the minutes Jota was playing
Jota only played below 45mins vs Brigton and vs Villa(which Firmino was out). With Mane and Salah being regulars for most games we can see that the rotation between Firmino and Jota is skewed in favour of Jota by almost 2/3

Bobby got injured early on in the season, our 3rd match. When he got fit, Klopp was slowly reintegrating him same when he does with every injured player. He came from the bench in our next two matches and started the third where he got a hat trick...He started the next two matches and got subbed around the 77/8 minute mark.. Bobby then got reinjured and for our next six matches, got fit, got subbed in twice during reintegration and picked up another Injury(rumoured to be Covid), subbed in the next match and then got Covid properly, started the next match against Brentford immediately he recovered....
As I said, he's been played when fit.....

raumdeuter:
Why I say its the easiest to prove

Lets see games 1 Norwich(Jota 61min Firmino 29min = Total 90mins),
Gameweek 2 Jota 81mins Firmino 9mins = Total 90mins
GW6 Brentford Jota 90mins Firmino 22mins
Gameweek 7 City Jota 68min Firmino 22mins = Total 90mins
Gameweek 8 Jota 0 Firmino 90
Gameweek 9 Man Utd Jota 90mins Firmino 77min
Gameweek 10 Brighton Jota 12 Firmino 78 = Total 90
Gameweek 17 Newcastle Jota 90mins Firmino 16mins
Game week 18 Spurs Jota 90mins Firmino 30mins
Gameweek 20 Jota 90, Firmino 20mins
Gameweek 22 Brentford Jota 82mins, Firmino 78mins

When both are fit
Jota 754mins, Firmino 471mins

So do you need further proof on who has been benching the other?

You are purposely being disingenuous, you're neglecting to state that Bobby comes from the bench because he's been sporadically injured and needs to build up gametime...

AnfieldFan:
You are purposely being disingenuous, you're neglecting to state that Bobby comes from the bench because he's been sporadically injured and needs to build up gametime...

The season started and Firmino started as a benchwarmer or was Firmino injured from season start?, Season middle Firmino is still coming as a sub, Season will end Firmino will still be coming in as a sub because of sporadic injuries

raumdeuter:
No one is asking Firmino to outscore Salah but to put an output decent enough like Jota is doing. Jota is not outscoring Salah
Why did you pick 25goals? Is there something specific about number 25? How about this Firmino has scored 15 league goals 1 time in his entire Liverpool career, Benzema scored 15 goals 5 times while Ronaldo was there and without Ronaldo he has scored over 20 league goals every season

This season when Firmino has been dropped, Jota is doing all these and still scoring without any effect on Liverpool attacking machine. This season just showed us that all the activity Firmino has been forming is a scam. Jota is doing it and scoring
Infact Jota is the 2nd highest goal scorer in the entire league

Shalaye...until you are ready to compare your legends ribery/robben to salah/mane all this na failed agenda...after all na dsame role dem dey play

raumdeuter:
The season started and Firmino started as a benchwarmer or was Firmino injured from season start?, Season middle Firmino is still coming as a sub, Season will end Firmino will still be coming in as a sub because of sporadic injuries

Didn't he participated in the Copa America and returned injured?

CAPdan21:
Shalaye...until you are ready to compare your legends ribery/robben to salah/mane all this na failed agenda...after all na dsame role dem dey play

Why should we compare Salah and Mane to Robben and Ribery? Should we also compare Allison to Neuer, Maybe Daglish to Rummenige or Munich olosho to Liverpool Olosho? To prove what point?

Amoto94:
Didn't he participated in the Copa America and returned injured?

He participated in Copa America and did not return injured

raumdeuter:
Why should we compare Salah and Mane to Robben and Ribery?

why not...they played the same roles with pathetic numbers to show for it

CAPdan21:
why not...they played the same roles with pathetic numbers to show for it

Should we also compare Allison to Neuer, Or which is redder Bayern red or Liverpool red? Which song will win grammy Bayern song or Liverpool song then Maybe Daglish to Rummenige or Munich olosho to Liverpool Olosho? To prove what point?

Amoto94:
Didn't he participated in the Copa America and returned injured?

He did not return injured but everyone who played a secondary competition...Thiago/fabinho/firmino were given extended time off...some not starting any games till the 3rd/4th match

raumdeuter:
The season started and Firmino started as a benchwarmer or was Firmino injured from season start?, Season middle Firmino is still coming as a sub, Season will end Firmino will still be coming in as a sub because of sporadic injuries

Our first two games this season were Norwich and Burnley in which he played from the bench because of Copa America before picking up an injury in the first half vs Chelsea(a game he started)...

raumdeuter:
Should we also compare Allison to Neuer, Or which is redder Bayern red or Liverpool red? Which song will win grammy Bayern song or Liverpool song then Maybe Daglish to Rummenige or Munich olosho to Liverpool Olosho? To prove what point?

Shalaye...compared to Ronaldo/bale, Messi/neymar Salah/mane your failed wingers/legends produced pathetic numbers...since you cannot compare since they cannot meet up perhaps we should compare them to zaha/adama traore

CAPdan21:
He did not return injured but everyone who played a secondary competition...Thiago/fabinho/firmino were given extended time off...some not starting any games till the 3rd/4th match

Richarlison who actually played the final started and played 89mins for Everton on the opening day of the season. Same with Emi Martinez

CAPdan21:
Shalaye...compared to Ronaldo/bale, Messi/neymar Salah/mane your failed wingers/legends produced pathetic numbers...since you cannot compare since they cannot meet up perhaps we should compare them to zaha/adama traore

Okay we don hear you! Liverpool Burger is tastier than Munich burger. Anything else?

raumdeuter:
Richarlison who actually played the final started and played 89mins for Everton on the opening day of the season. Same with Emi Martinez

Richi starting for Everton has no bearing on Liverpool...Two different clubs... Everybody who played a Copa in Liverpool didn't start and all came from the bench....Our first real test of the season in Chelsea was a match Klopp started Bobby and he walked off injured in the first half and what happened, we didn't win that match...

raumdeuter:
Richarlison who actually played the final started and played 89mins for Everton on the opening day of the season. Same with Emi Martinez

So??... relegation fighting everton na u won compare to Liverpool who had d extra advantage of playing Burnley/Norwich...d first big game after that against Chelsea firmino started...Oga rest

AnfieldFan:
Our first two games this season were Norwich and Burnley in which he played from the bench because of Copa America before picking up an injury in the first half vs Chelsea(a game he started)...

Copa America final was July 10, Euro final was July 11 Opening game in the league was August 14 over a month later

Most players who even played the tournament finals started for their club in the EPL. So make we die the excuse for Firmino that actually sat for much of the Copa

raumdeuter:
Okay we don hear you! Liverpool Burger is tastier than Munich burger. Anything else?

Concession accepted...any other fallacy u want me to address

I totally agree with Android22 on the Muller issue. Muller is primarily an attacking midfielder, but his versatility means he can be deployed anywhere across the final third with varying results. Notwithstanding, Muller has never been a striker. He has played there on occassion but that doesn't mean he is one. His best position has always been behind the number 9.

Regarding the Jota/Firmino issue. The reason Firmino has been under fire in recent seasons is because of his poor output in front of goal. No one would be criticizing if he was putting up decent attacking numbers. He has been poor in that aspect and no amount of false-nine can excuse that. Jota offers Liverpool more goal threat in that same position, though while playing a different role. Firmino has a fight on his hands to keep his starting shirt, though Mane's indifferent form on the left might force things in his favour.

AnfieldFan:
Richi starting for Everton has no bearing on Liverpool...Two different clubs... Everybody who played a Copa in Liverpool didn't start and all came from the bench....Our first real test of the season in Chelsea was a match Klopp started Bobby and he walked off injured in the first half and what happened, we didn't win that match...

Jordan Henderson from the same Liverpool played the Euro final a day after the Copa and started vs Burnley while Firmino was still starting on the bench

raumdeuter:
These are screenshots from transfermarkt, Do you notice their position

Firmino and Jota are just like Higuain and Benzema for Real Madrid then, while complement the flank men more than scoring the other score more.

Android22:
At what point did I argue against this? Did I not tell you that in "some" games he has played as the false 9? Did I not agree that both players handle that role differently with Bobby being more creative but Jota being more clinical with his chances?

Jota is more clinical...The argument is does he function as a false nine, does he operate more around the box or outside of it when he starts centrally.... Bobby does most of his work for Liverpool / outside the box piggybacking of the opponent's 4 while Jota when he starts centrally operates more in or around the box...

Infact if the term false nine didn't exist, Bobby wouldn't even be called a Supporting Striker ( because they play much closer to the box than him...

hensben:
Firmino and Jota are just like Higuain and Benzema for Real Madrid then, while complement the flank men more than scoring the other score more.

If Liverpool is to sell one of them today, who do you think they will sell?

raumdeuter:
So why is Jota a left winger outscoring a Striker like Firmino

You must not bring one down to exonerate the other person. Jota and Firmino are strikers with different ability, both suit what Klopp use them for. Firmino complement salah and mane better. The situation here is just like that of Benzema and Higuain, while the former complement Cr7 better the later score more. Try to Dey understand tactics and stop bringing down great footballers because of number of goals scored. Football is getting boring because of people like you. Na Wetin Benzema and Lewy talk the other time be this.