₦airaland Forum

Ibime:
This has been my only point ever since. All this talks back and forth boils down to one single point. We can't play attacking football consistently with Jogginghoe. We have plenty evidence of failing to do so for four years and only evidence of Jogginghoe success we have was parking bus in tournament football

Were we playing attacking football before jogs?

reccy:
I'm beginning to see reason to what ibime is saying. Way before, I was part of those who thought that he was just hating or being unecessary bias, but after relating his point here to what I watch, omoh, I see correlations and these are very detrimental to any serious title contending team having Liverpool and man city to contend with.

Truly, ibime is not hating, He Is just bringing fact to why we keep failing to win league giving the investment we've made. If you want to see an attacking chelsea and an highline chelsea playing, there is needs for us to have a standard DM who is quick, transitive and fit enough to take risk while neutralising any form of threats from opposition.

This, no doubt, has an effect on our attackers and strikers being poor all season which inevitably has a resultant effect on overall Chelsea performance.

I called one of my guy to the arguments here especially the ibime and co, and also havertz and mount's. He Is yet to come in term with the jorginho's ineptitude which is causing us a lot. To him, jorginho is the best register and is the best thing after the fruit of garden.

I enjoy it when people are able to see beyond stats and call out any player for their negligence.

I'm sorry you've allowed yourself be brainwashed.

Ibime and popiziano are skillfully dodging my question.
Who do they see as the best DM in the game and what metrics should be used to judge the ideal DM?

Jorginho has an extraordinary excellent passing record. They brush it aside. Jorginho has excelled in defensive metrics, they say it's "bus parking" metrics, so what should we use in judging this player? Which current DM should we use in comparing to jorginho?

raumdeuter:
You've been supporting Chelsea for over 2 decades, Jorginho has been part of that for just 4 seasons

How many seasons in the last 20yrs did you play attacking football consistently?

Jogginghoe came to Chelsea in 2018, the era where it becomes impossible to challenge for the league without supreme attacking consistency, so he can't be judged the same as those who can win league with 85 points.

Secondly, I have had problem with Chelsea DM like Mikel not being able to put Chelsea in an attacking set-up for the last decade so let's not act like this is new. This moreso with the introduction of new attacking ideas from gengen pressing etc

Thirdly, the successful Chelsea teams of 2000s though they played in a different era where they could be solid and win consistently, often had the tools to step up the pitch and attack to get the required results if they found that their solid set-up wasn't working in the game. They had likes of Makelele and Essien that will take care of everything at the back give the team freedom if required. So though a solid team, they were capable of going toe to toe as required, except against Barcelona. That same team also has the highest goals in an EPL season 103, second only to Man City 106 to show you they had the tools. Everytime you try that with Jogginghoe, it leads to a defensive collapse.

Ibime:
This has been my only point ever since. All this talks back and forth boils down to one single point. We can't play attacking football consistently with Jogginghoe. We have plenty evidence of failing to do so for four years and only evidence of Jogginghoe success we have was parking bus in tournament football

If we have never seen jorginho play in an attacking system. This would be believable, but jorginho was the centerpiece if an ultra-attacking system in Napoli. Setting personal records while doing so. So this talk is a product of the bullshite factory.

donjazet:
Ibime, what are that tangible metrics you expect from your ideal DM?
And who is your ideal DM? Who do you think is the best DM in the game and why?
Popiziano you too.

You guys that love to criticize El professor, who is your ideal DM and what tangible quality do you seek from your DM.

We know jorginho excels in his passing records and defensive records are now being called "bus parking" records. So what are these tangible qualities you want to see in a DM?
Cc simpledawg, ninjameta etc?

My question still being dodged till now.

donjazet:
If we have never seen jorginho play in an attacking system. This would be believable, but jorginho was the centerpiece if an ultra-attacking system in Napoli. Setting personal records while doing so. So this talk is a product of the bullshite factory.

Wrong. Jogginghoe has always shown the propensity to be ultra dominant when there is a wide disparity between the quality of his team and their opponents, which is the case with Napoli and other Serie A teams at that time. It's no different from Jogginghoe making 180 passes against Newcastle and Stoke, and being bullied when facing Bournemouth, Aston Villa or even Brighton. No different from dominating other farmers league teams with Napoli but struggling in the UCL when facing his mates.

This Liverpool match is pulsating. End to end stuff. Every match I wonder what makes Liverpool defense soo easy to carve open.

FBS:
It was my birthday and then I heard the news that my uncle (best man I know) stopped breathing just before they got to the hospital. I am absolutely shattered that I can't express myself. Still can't believe it.
We usually call each other because his birthday is just a day before mine. I called him, we talked, laughed as usual and......





Always cherish the gift of life.

Accept my condolences Boss

Ibime:
DMs then where Bakayoko and/or Fabregas. Thanks for identifying the standard you expect of Joggy. That particular game Bakayoko even got redcard due to loose touch

Conte’s era
Man U 2-0 Chelsea . Kante, matic, fab

Newcastle 3-0 Chelsea. Kante, bakayoko fab

Chelsea 0-3 Bournemouth. Kante , bakayoko, fab, DW

Watford 4-1 Chelsea. Kante , bakayoko, fab DW

Chelsea 1-4 Tottenham kante fab, bakayoko, DW

Newcastle 3-0 Chelsea. Kante, bakayoko, barkley.

These are the embarrassing moments we had under conte alone, and the mildfielders in the match day squad in each of the game.. not mentioning embarrassing moments with other previous managers before conte..

Stop making things look like, immediately Jorginho came to Chelsea, we started having embarrassing numbers

raumdeuter:
You've been supporting Chelsea for about 25yrs, Jorginho has been part of that for just 4 seasons

How many seasons in the last 20yrs did you play attacking football consistently?

Despite the attacking football Roman wants Chelsea have only won big things with defensive football

To add, it's not only about attacking football or going gung-ho. Jogginghoe does not even allow us to play a medium block at any sort of consistency.

lordfalcao:
Conte’s era
Man U 2-0 Chelsea . Kante, matic, fab

Newcastle 3-0 Chelsea. Kante, bakayoko fab

Chelsea 0-3 Bournemouth. Kante , bakayoko, fab, DW

Watford 4-1 Chelsea. Kante , bakayoko, fab DW

Chelsea 1-4 Tottenham kante fab, bakayoko, DW

Newcastle 3-0 Chelsea. Kante, bakayoko, barkley.

These are the embarrassing moments we had under conte alone, and the mildfielders in the match day squad in each of the game.. not mentioning embarrassing moments with other previous managers before conte..

Stop making things look like, immediately Jorginho came to Chelsea, we started having embarrassing numbers

Bakayoko in all of them. That's your Jogginghoe comparison. Clap for yourself. Jogginghoe should be sent away like Bakayoko

I attended the Manure match live at Old Trafford That was a 2-0 but not due to midfield dominance. They scored early and we spent the rest of the game trying to equalise.

Ibime:
Jogginghoe came to Chelsea in 2018, the era where it becomes impossible to challenge for the league without supreme attacking consistency, so he can't be judged the same as those who can win league with 85 points.

Secondly, I have had problem with Chelsea DM like Mikel not being able to put Chelsea in an attacking set-up for the last decade so let's not act like this is new. This moreso with the introduction of new attacking ideas from gengen pressing etc

Thirdly, the successful Chelsea teams of 2000s though they played in a different era where they could be solid and win consistently, often had the tools to step up the pitch and attack to get the required results if they found that their solid set-up wasn't working in the game. They had likes of Makelele and Essien that will take care of everything at the back give the team freedom if required. So though a solid team, they were capable of going toe to toe as required, except against Barcelona. That same team also has the highest goals in an EPL season 103, second only to Man City 106 to show you they had the tools. Everytime you try that with Jogginghoe, it leads to a defensive collapse.

A year before Jorginho, Cuntay won the league with 93 points and he didnt play attacking football, Pep and Klopp are the ones who made 90points a norm and if you change Jorginho, As long as your coach does not have an extreme attacking ideology like Pep, it wuld be hard to play attacking football. Peps attacking football is being anchored by an "escort" Rodri

Secondly, Mikel was not your first choice DM most of his years at Chelsea. Gegen pressing is not the only way to win, Cuntay won and he didnt gegen press

Thirdly it was only the Chelsea team under Carlo Ancelotti that was attacking and that was when you scored 103 goals. Other coaches even when they had Essien Makelele could not consistently play an attacking pattern and youve had almost 10 coaches even Scolari failed with his attacking football despite having Makelele Essien, AVB and RdM failed with Mereilles and Mikel

Ibime:
Jogginghoe came to Chelsea in 2018, the era where it becomes impossible to challenge for the league without supreme attacking consistency, so he can't be judged the same as those who can win league with 85 points.

Secondly, I have had problem with Chelsea DM like Mikel not being able to put Chelsea in an attacking set-up for the last decade so let's not act like this is new. This moreso with the introduction of new attacking ideas from gengen pressing etc

Thirdly, the successful Chelsea teams of 2000s though they played in a different era where they could be solid and win consistently, often had the tools to step up the pitch and attack to get the required results if they found that their solid set-up wasn't working in the game. They had likes of Makelele and Essien that will take care of everything at the back give the team freedom if required. So though a solid team, they were capable of going toe to toe as required, except against Barcelona. That same team also has the highest goals in an EPL season 103, second only to Man City 106 to show you they had the tools. Everytime you try that with Jogginghoe, it leads to a defensive collapse.

be default the club has been built as a defensive playin team..

Defensive managers has trives in this club more than attacking players..

Even if we use when guardiola came to Epl as the era of attacking football. How many times have we set up like that before Jorginho

donjazet:
This Liverpool match is pulsating. End to end stuff. Every match I wonder what makes Liverpool defense soo easy to carve open.

Its VVD the greatest defender in history. I watched part of the first half when the Palace attackers were ripping him to shreds but lacked composure at final moments

Ibime:
Bakayoko in all of them. That's your Jogginghoe comparison. Clap for yourself. Jogginghoe should be sent away like Bakayoko

I attended the Manure match live at Old Trafford That was a 2-0 but not due to midfield dominance. They scored early and we spent the rest of the game trying to equalise.

is it only bakayoko that was the Mildfield in all those game? ..

The ones we had from when bakayoko came was it only Jorginho the only mildfielder starting it?.

Do I bring embarrassing score line during matic time?

Ibime:
Bakayoko in all of them. That's your Jogginghoe comparison. Clap for yourself. Jogginghoe should be sent away like Bakayoko

I attended the Manure match live at Old Trafford That was a 2-0 but not due to midfield dominance. They scored early and we spent the rest of the game trying to equalise.

Wow

Odoi

Ziyech

Mount..

donjazet:
I'm sorry you've allowed yourself be brainwashed.

Ibime and popiziano are skillfully dodging my question.
Who do they see as the best DM in the game and what metrics should be used to judge the ideal DM?

Jorginho has an extraordinary excellent passing record. They brush it aside. Jorginho has excelled in defensive metrics, they say it's "bus parking" metrics, so what should we use in judging this player? Which current DM should we use in comparing to jorginho?

What excellence does jorg have in passing aside side way passes, bro? A jorginho that doesn't take risk?
How is he defensively good? Some one that can't shield off players when he is with the ball?

I actually think jorg type can excell very well in barca team that dominated the world..because he doesn't have to do any defensive duty since there will be no pressure from opponents who would usually sit back due to fear of messy.

Ziyech getting lots of game time of recent

raumdeuter:
A year before Jorginho, Cuntay won the league with 93 points and he didnt play attacking football, Pep and Klopp are the ones who made 90points a norm and if you change Jorginho, As long as your coach does not have an extreme attacking ideology like Pep, it wuld be hard to play attacking football. Peps attacking football is being anchored by an "escort" Rodri

Secondly, Mikel was not your first choice DM most of his years at Chelsea. Gegen pressing is not the only way to win, Cuntay won and he didnt gegen press

Thirdly it was only the Chelsea team under Carlo Ancelotti that was attacking and that was when you scored 103 goals. Other coaches even when they had Essien Makelele could not consistently play an attacking pattern and youve had almost 10 coaches even Scolari failed with his attacking football despite having Makelele Essien, AVB and RdM failed with Mereilles and Mikel

most of mikel time, he wasn’t our starting DM. How he is been blamed for reason why we didn’t set up in attacking phase is shocking.

What you wrote here is very accurate

donjazet:
I'm sorry you've allowed yourself be brainwashed.

Ibime and popiziano are skillfully dodging my question.
Who do they see as the best DM in the game and what metrics should be used to judge the ideal DM?

Jorginho has an extraordinary excellent passing record. They brush it aside. Jorginho has excelled in defensive metrics, they say it's "bus parking" metrics, so what should we use in judging this player? Which current DM should we use in comparing to jorginho?

Your question was answered if I'm not mistaken.
Jorginho has an excellent passing record, fine... That is basic in which any decent Midfielder from Leeds can have, given the chance in Chelsea team.

Jorginho has excelled in defensive metrics, they say it's "bus parking" metrics,

Excelled? And we are still where we are?

Let's be realistic here, jorginho is fine player but not for a team like Chelsea competing in a league that has Liverpool and man city to contend with.

If you watch Chelsea games, all you see is recycling of passes from defenders to midfielders to attackers then to midfielders to defender again. No real threat and fast attacking play from the suppose DM.

And you want to win league? You don't win league with such an annoying and awkward play.

Just saw the line up.

I have no words abeg.

FBS:
It was my birthday and then I heard the news that my uncle (best man I know) stopped breathing just before they got to the hospital. I am absolutely shattered that I can't express myself. Still can't believe it.
We usually call each other because his birthday is just a day before mine. I called him, we talked, laughed as usual and......





Always cherish the gift of life.

Sorry fr the loss bro. God grant you and the family fortitude to bear the loss. Stay strong

reccy:
Your question was answered if I'm not mistaken.
Jorginho has an excellent passing record, fine... That is basic in which any decent Midfielder from Leeds can have, given the chance in Chelsea team.

Jorginho has excelled in defensive metrics, they say it's "bus parking" metrics,

Excelled? And we are still where we are?

Let's be realistic here, jorginho is fine player but not for a team like Chelsea competing in a league that has Liverpool and man city to contend with.

If you watch Chelsea games, all you see is recycling of passes from defenders to midfielders to attackers then to midfielders to defender again. No real threat and fast attacking play from the suppose DM.

And you want to win league? You don't win league with such an annoying and awkward play.

Must joginho play d whole game??


We have kovacic and Kante oga


LIVERPOOL rotates d midfield.

City does same..

While is joginho d reason we can't win d league

Segedinho:
Odoi

Ziyech

Mount..

Looking like a 4231

The elephant starts again

God. Epp us

Skimpledawg:
Just saw the line up.

I have no words abeg.

I'm actually happy with the formation, but I would've expected at least one of Pulisic, Havertz (especially) and Werner to start. But the attack as a whole doesn't inspire a lot of confidence right now.

I just hope for the best jare.

Segedinho:
Odoi

Ziyech

Mount..

Why is Kenedy not playing?

Bag of beans up front again

I don't know why this man has kept Havertz glued to the bench.

It's not like those starting ahead of him have been stellar or anything.

Segedinho:
Must joginho play d whole game??


We have kovacic and Kante oga


LIVERPOOL rotates d midfield.

City does same..

While is joginho d reason we can't win d league

The games where Jorginho didn't play and it was Kante and Kovacic same thing

Raff Tuchel on d beat again